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Comments about ‘Community leaders urge moderate approach to immigration reform’

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Published: Friday, Nov. 12 2010 11:00 a.m. MST

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Phill
Provo, UT

WOW, it's rather sad to see so called "stake leaders" of the church questioning the first presidency's intent. It's clear that many have diverted to the "Extremes" of polarized "ideologies". Brethren, don't be deviated in the name of politics or other labels. As Latter Day Saints we follow Christ. This clearly shows how "conservativeS" are been driven off away from the moderation that gospel entails.

Elder Oaks said " I find some wisdom in liberalism, some wisdom in conservatism, and much truth in intellectualismbut I find no salvation in any of them."
What happened with following the example of our Church Leaders? Some of you are praising "radio or TV hosts" and taking their words and using their words in these debate. Let's not loose track on that brethren.

XelaDave
Salem, UT

A shot at an explination for all the hatred and annimosity- blue collar jobs and many others have dried up in America- welcome to market economic 101- this makes people angry- anger must be directed somewhere- since I love markets and democracy I cannot direct my anger at coprorations and other entities- I want what they have and do not really care how they got it- so I will direct my anger at the abstract illegal immigrant and make up numbers about what they take from me- jobs, tax dollars, etc. and I will direct my anger at government becasue they must be to blame somehow- naturally my logic is full of horrific inconsistancies but I will drape the flag around myself and proclaim religion to make myself feel better and justify my hate- very sad- systems produce results- we are seeing the results of a post industrial society- it will take several more decades for that to work itself thru- enjoy the ride

Utah Conservative
Lindon, UT

I am pro-immigration -- legal immigration. If there is a true need for imported cheap labor, then we should allow for a legal migrant worker pass to fill the need. However, illegal immigrants routinely steal identities, commit fraud for welfare and other benefits. They represent a significant portion of our jailed inmates. Saying that all of that is OK, and we should keep families together and be compassionate just doesn't cut it. There is a place for compassion, but also a place for rule of law. Is it OK from someone to steal bread if they are hungry? No, but we also shouldn't put them away for life for the offense. People in Mexico are "hungry" fro what the US offers. But it doesn't give them the right to steal from us.

UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

Walt Nicoles - you raise an interesting point here, that really has deep consequences. There are a few here on this board who hold very conservative views that quote speeches given by President Benson before he was in the first presidency about his views on politics. They accuse that anyone who does not follow these opinions expressed are disrespecting their religion and are in fact in conflict with their religion.

And yet, here in turn we have many questioning the weight of the statement given here on this subject but the LDS church as not carrying the endorsement or representing the view of church leadership.

I really don't think there is much disagreement on the subject of illegal being exactly what it says it is. But it is how we apply the law, compassionately, that is in the cross hairs of this discussion. There are very few that have not broken a law at some time or another, overtly or by accident. But few have their homes taken from them, families torn apart, lose their jobs or called very harsh terms for breaking a civil misdemeanor. It is at that level discourse needs to be moderated and compassionate.

Another Perspective
Bountiful, UT

Some of these people crossed a border of one of the southern states. Others their parents took them across. These peoples heritage was taken from them by the same people who took Indian land, often in violation of treaties that were then in force.

Please Lord forgive those we call immigrants if they don't take it seriously when these same people (their decendents) get all up in arms about the law which is about as serious as a minor traffic violation and how it must never be broken.

Vengeance70
Payson, UT

I am really tired of how the media is constantly trying to tug at the heart strings of the families that have broken the law and came here illegally and are getting a free ride, and avoiding income tax.
It is apparent that the federal government isn't going to address this, now it appears that the state is going to go soft, and the church is going to spread more guilt, and afraid to be politically incorrect. We believe in sustaining the law, and its consequences. What you sew you shall reap. I see another Mexican flag and I am going to explode.

We the People
Sandy, UT

I see no inconsistency with the Church's statement and a tough stance on immigration. The statement directs those involved in the debate to refrain from using silly superlatives and attacking those with whom they disagree. I hope that all sides of the debate can subscribe to this ideal. Before a government acts, I would hope that citizens would engage in a civil, yet fierce debate on how to proceed. This debate ensures that whatever the outcome, the country has considered many alternatives and after much thought, has chosen the best option. The statement asks only for a refrain from knee-jerk reactions, but not an open-border policy.

The statement explicitly reserves the right for nations to protect their sovereignty but encourages a thoughtful process. I believe that the statement is consistent with the Church's mission of love and claimed belief in being subject to governments and sustaining the law.

CJ
Murray, UT

I was just wondering if there are any other laws this fine group of altruistic people think we should not enforce. I don't think they spent ten minutes worrying about anything but their own self interests if the truth were to be known. There are a number of laws I would like to break while we are waiting to "reform" them to suit the needs of the special interests of the state. In the future let's see how many other laws they want to "moderate" until they can change them.
I, for one, am sick and tired of church groups in particular whining about this issue. The church groups can get together and solve this issue by putting their money where their mouths are. If you want illegals to have free health care, education, and jobs, why don't you pay for it? Put up or shut up. You all talk about what "Christ would do", shut up and do it yourselves. You are always charitable with everyone else's money and resources but never want to part with your own.

JBrady
Murray, Ut

In the LDS Church statement they accept the fact that we have a right to enforce our immigration laws, and that "All persons subject to a nation's laws are accountable for their acts in relation to them."

I see nothing wrong with that.

What they are calling for is moderate laws and enforcement. I think we want that and compassion for all of the people who break our laws.

It does not mean we do not want our laws enforced.

  • 6:25 p.m. Nov. 12, 2010
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UtahBlueDevil
Durham, NC

CJ - I am sure there are a number of misdemeanor infractions you have done in the recent past that you have not been prosecuted to the fulness of the law, unless you are one of those few perfect people. I am pretty sure if you had the chance to get your family out of poverty, and the biggest risk was a civil misdemeanor infraction, your principles wouldn't keep your family in poverty.

And we hear a lot about this "identity theft" crime we hear about. Lets cut past the clutter and discuss the reality. These social security numbers these people are obtaining aren't being used to by cars, or obtain credit cards - but jobs. Jobs where social security taxes are being withheld. Withholdings for which they will never collect.

Is what is going on right - heck no. But lets take a reality pill and understand things for what they are, not the hype.

And CJ, church based charities are putting money where their mouths are. The Catholic Charities Archdiocese of Baltimore alone provided nearly 100 million dollars in services to the poor last year.

Your statement shows you really have no idea who funds what.

Bobo
Magna, UT

I voted a few days ago to elect people to represent me in the legislature. Who are these people creating a compact as if they speak for anyone but their own interests (which, by the way, they are strangely silent about stating publicly)? Do they make money from immigration? Do they have political agendas? Are they blindly following some principle of a political philosophy no matter what evidence argues against it? The time for immigration into the U.S. is over. It now only serves the perverse interests of the elites or of the politically dangerous.

Chip Douglas
Cedar Hills, UT

Mark Willes has shown some exceptional leadership on this issue. It's too bad he isn't the Governor or the Senate President. We need our elected officials to lead on difficult issues, not manage difficult issues.

awsomeron1
Oahu, HI

If you are Illegal you need to be cought, processed, and deported as quickly as possible.

There is No Moderation.

The soluation to the problem of needing illegals if there is a problem. As i think a set of don't work, don't eat laws would take care of the vast most of it.

Would be to allow more peeople in the legal way.DNA and Chip Them, so you can keep better track of them.

If everyohne was had DNA taken a where chippped at Birth then it would be know big deal. It would be just like MGM almost every male has it done, only with this it would include the females.

The chip could be scanned. Without the chip No Services. No Right to Work, No Education etc etc.

It would be nice to be able to know who everyone is.

If we do not act soon we will soon have the illegal elderly and the costs of that situation.

Unless your life is in danger, and I do not mean social danger. Then there is No Reason for an Illegal to stay here.

Anon 64
Oahu, HI

Why?

The Reform I want to see is the Laws Enforced and the Illegals Returned to their homes, as quickly as possible. This is for the safety and well being and for jobs for the U.S. Citizens.

If you say that the American Citizens will not do the jobs that the illegals are doing, then A. Think Again, B.If that is true then it should be very easy to find the Illegals.

I also want to see the U.S. Borders protected to such an extent that they cannot get in again.

We could put our Troops that are on Dwell Time to work along the Border in short shifts. Say two week deployments with 1 month base time.

I have nothing against Dwell Time but as a Vet I would rather be doing somthing more useful then getting ready for the next long deployment or the the next inspection.

There is nothing wrong with patroling our Borders. Good Training and of course we are Not at War.

If the Mexican or Canadian Goverment does not like us protecting our Borders then so what.

The other option is to charge them for the cost of our illegals.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

@Phill

A wonderful quote from Elder Oaks. Thank you. It expresses so much of what I often feel.

@All

The gospel is about life with God. Politics is just how we live with each other while we are here. One is eternal, the other is not.

In our area we have a lot of folks who are from Mexico and Central America. They are generally good, hard-working people.

Are they here legally? I don't know. I don't ask and frankly I don't care. While I am at church, my only concern is am I helping my brothers and sisters move ahead in the gospel.

I don't go around telling the smokers or drinkers not to come. I wouldnt go around telling anyone here illegally not to come either.

I wont be badgering God to notice their sins in particular. Im too busy hoping He will just have some mercy when He notices mine.

I do not believe that God has given me any revelation on the behalf of my Spanish speaking brothers and sisters. I suppose that is only fair because they apparently havent gotten any for me either.

mammalou
Somewhere in the USA, UT

I agree that we have been somewhat "imhumane" to the illegal population. If we had taken a more "parental" role and disaplined thse individuals at the moment the were doing wrong (coming here illegally) then we wouldn't have to be dealing with how to fix it now, that does put us in a difficult position.

I think, however, just as you would with any child, there has to be a time and point that we take the consequenses of our actions. Yes, it would have probably been easier to deport these people before we let the stay so long, but that doesn't mean they should get a free ride. How about we don't punish them in furture attemps to come here leagally. We will not hold it against you that you broke our law already, but you have to get back in line. And we could "humanly" give them tickets back to their country for their whole family.

I am so sick of this debate daily, do the right thing and get on....send them home now!

Andy
Cottonwood Heights, UT

No big deal. Illegal immigration is a boon to the economy - illegals generally provide cheap labor and pay taxes which they will never collect SS check. IN fact I imagine many of our economic woes would be reduced if we grew our market by allowing more immigration. Let them stay and compete in a marketplace that thrives on competition.

The only argument I've heard is the drain on social services. Make them citizens then.

And if you don't like that then provide less expensive alternatives to ER room visits and ESL teachers in classrooms.

In short - hate the game, don't hate the player. To which I add change the game so it's beneficial to you, don't destroy the system because of a relatively small expense.

Sandstrom's comments regarding ripping families apart are both incredibly short sighted and insensitive. It is a bad idea to deport parents and leave a bunch of parentlless children to burden state.

The right answer is Regan's answer - amnesty.

yellowbird
Clearfield, UT

Lest we forget, the LDS Church's 12th Article of Faith says: We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

Seems to me that means doing things legally, albeit with compassion.

I notice the church didn't have anyone actually sign the compact, they just said it was a nice document and voiced their support of it. The document itself doesn't address the laws or adherence to the laws. The compact is fluff; yes, nice fluff, for political points and 'good feelings'.

For those of us who have had identity theft or who have had to work jobs for less pay in order to abide by our laws and at least have a job, I say, let's help them be here legally, or send the whole family home until they can come here legally. Meanwhile, those who wish can work to increase the number of openings for legal immigrants.

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