Comments about ‘Community leaders urge moderate approach to immigration reform’

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Published: Friday, Nov. 12 2010 11:00 a.m. MST

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SLars
Provo, UT

Are they concerned about what they perceive as "hateful speech" or their bottom line. I see nothing hateful about people wanting others to obey the law. I do understand that their are groups that fear enforcement of any kind.

The Salt Lake chamber is seeing profit above morals and ethics. Is it right to ask the public to provide welfare for your bottom line? The cheap labor and sales in your stores come at a large price to our government services.

If we want to come out of this recession fast, we must cut government spending, and put citizens to work. Enforcing immigration laws does that, but at a cost to your bottom line.

It's the fear of enforcement you perceive, not hateful speech.

GaryS
Leesburg, VA

How about a moderate approach to tax evasion? Just because some choose not to pay taxes, it does not make them bad people. They deserve our love, respect, and financial support.

The same with people who steal cars. They're not criminals; they're just helpless and doing the best they can. It would be racist and mean-spirited to break up their families.

When a company breaches a contract or fails to pay its employees (speaking from personal experience here), that's a civil statute, not a criminal one, and government should not get involved. We can't enforce every single violation--it's not efficient!

Would the "community leaders" support any of these moderate positions?

Bebyebe
UUU, UT

The Catholic church wants central American illegals here since most are members. Are there hispanic LDS members too?

Compassion is way down the list on motives when it comes to religions. Why is Mormon church involved?

patriotandmore
Spanish Fork, UT

Double standard. What ever happened to the 12th Article of Faith: "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Omit laws that pertain to ILLEGAL immigration? If a U. S. citizen breaks the law, the hammer comes down from the church. If an illegal breaks the law, all is forgiven. What about this approach: level the playing field and everyone obey the law. Illegals go home and come back legally.

CJ
Murray, UT

We need to let everyone who signed this know how we feel about them and what we plan to do about it. Most of these groups profit from the presence of illegals and that is why they are behind it. The overwhelming majority of Utahns want the law enforced and deportation the result. These groups think they run the state and we need to send a message that they don't. The compassion they are crying about is phony and doesn't extend to the victims of illegal aliens that you never hear about from the state sponsored media.

Walt Nicholes
Orem, UT

The Church is in a no-win position.

If they say "obey the laws of the land" they are accused of being uncharitable.

If they say "be charitable and compassionate" they are accused of abandoning principles set by Joseph Smith.

If they say nothing at all they are accused of not setting a proper guideline for their members.

But it is worth noting that the statement was not attributed to the President of the Church, or the Quorum of the Twelve. It was a statement released by the public relations arm of the church. It could have authored in the Presiding Bishop's office for all anyone knows.

OFFICIAL directions from the church come in letters from the First Presidency, or Proclamations from the Twelve. Not even statements in the church magazines can be construed as official unless they are attached to an official statement from one of these presiding bodies.

It appears that the Brethren are not united in this matter - hence they are officially silent. They do seem to be united on the idea that that the debate should be civil and compassionate.

Brett Nielson
Salt Lake City, UT

Thank goodness that at least some political leaders and well and community leaders and even the LDS church support the compact. It's nice to know that at least some of us have compassion and sanity with regards to this issue.

jbc1
Mount Carmel, UT

In the 1950's, President Eisenhower was concerned about the lack of employment for Veterans of WWII and Korea. Along with members of Congress like Sen. McLaren of Nevada, An Immigration Act was passed. At the same time, General Swing, the chief of the Immigration and Naturalization Service was ordered to close the border and begin rounding up the illegals. I was part of that effort as a Border Patrolman. Within three years the illegals were back in Mexico and the border closed. Unemployment was under control and the country was doing well. We did it then and can do it now. It is not a matter of compassion. It is a matter of necessity for the future of the USA.

RShackleford
Saint George, UT

So this group wants cheap labor and people filling their church pews.

I'm LDS and I do not support what is in this compact. It would be different if the illegals they are protecting (and condoning their crimes) fled a country that did not let them practice the freedom of religion.

What Crimes can I choose to not obey and still hold a temple recommend? Can I cheat on my taxes????...can i bare false witness with a forged SS Card..Get paid cash under the table..Utah Children have their ID stolen all the time by these same same people that are being baptized and are bing called to leadership possessions. Why are we baptizing those that continue to commit crimes?

And what about the fine upstanding employer that knowingly hires those with fake IDs....Can you really, in good conscience look your Bishop in the eye and say there is nothing amiss in your life?

Patrick Henry
West Jordan, UT

"We are different from Arizona," said Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, who signed the compact. "We do things differently here. We want to show people we can do something about this issue in a compassionate and lawful way."

Enforcement is not the only way to uphold the rule of law, Shurtleff said.

"The key is to distinguish between federal responsibilities and state responsibilities," he said. "They're responsible for securing the border. We here in Utah are responsible for enforcing state laws."

Rep. Paul Ray, R-Clearfield, who has been open about his support of tough immigration policy, argued, however, that states enforce federal laws on a regular basis. Bank robbery, kidnapping and extortion are all federal laws, he said.

"A law is a law," he said. "I don't think law enforcement should pick and choose which laws they enforce."

Thank you Rep. Paul Ray you sir are a true American Hero.
Shurtleff hit the road jack and don't come back! Oh and by the way Shurtleff your attempt to appear conservative at the Republican Convention was nice. Keep up the charade.

weedeater
Murray, UT

Irony; that the right, who champion "free" markets now begrudge business leaders who want cheap labor so they can make more profit.

ouisc
Farmington, UT

May I get a pass on my crimes? Getting arrested really puts a damper on my ability to provide for my family.

Poqui
Murray, UT

To Walt Nicholes and others who think alike:

I know that you don't want to accept the truth but any statement released by the Church has the First Presidency stamp of approval. And every article published in official Church magazines has to go through correlation too. I know personally, I work closely with that department.

The Church has taken a stance, it is not pro-illegal immigration as most of you say it is. The stance is a Christian stance of moderation and avoiding Draconian measures.

There is NO inconsistency with the 12th Article of Faith and the Church's position. If there is an inconsistency then it's in your mind. Your task is to find the consistency, if you want to believe that the statement from the prophet is an inspired one. Or you can remain thinking that the prophet is wrong on this one. But that is a very dangerous slippery slope if you are a card-carrying Mormon.

"Be still and know that I am God..."

abbygirl1994
East Carbon, UT

Illegals, do what we American's do.. WORK! No more free everything.. Those who break the law, deport. If parents are hard working good people but their children are gang members deport. Become American citizens, most of the illegals I know don't want to become American citizens, why would they when they can get free everything?? Many don't want to learn to speak English..tough.. learn English. My children were forced to learn some Spanish in the 70's WHY?? My Norwegian ancestors had to learn to speak english. Can't you understand why American's are angry??

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

Despite the Church's artfully ambiguous statement, Sandstrom is right, his bill is right, he is honorably doing the job he was hired to do, and in no way is he violating the actual, true principles of the LDS doctrine.

And SHAME on this disgusting display of corruption, these Chamber, Sutherland and other such CORRUPT persons and organizations, driven as they are by GREED and PROFIT, coming before us in their suits and ties and pretenses of moral and spiritual superiority!

radically_independent
Orem, Utah

I guess now is the time to see where people's true loyalties lie. If moderation and compassion is a concept one has a hard time with, perhaps that is most telling about who and what they stand for.

As to those who thing we need an iron handed application of the law, minus compassion, they really don't understand how the law is applied in this country day in and day out.

Everyday speeders are let off with warnings. Everyday people who have caused accidents that have hurt or killed loved ones are not prosicuted for manslaugher as they could be - the are seen as having already lost enough. Everyday debtors are allowed to pay a fraction of their depts through bankruptcy law. Everyday tax cheats are let pay lower fines. Everyday hardship is considered in sentencing. This list goes on.

There are plenty who are not deserving of such compassion, and don't get it. And that is also fine.

The whole idea though that somehow being compassionate - which doesn't mean turn a blind eye - is a bad thing is telling of some of Utah's culture.

Its the Rush versus Monson... who will win out?

Meg
Portage, MI

Amazing how many people use "the law" to justify their harsh stance. Well, let's change the law and let in lots more legal immigrants, acknowledging the fact that we need them to pick our fruit and build our houses and wash our dishes when we go out to eat. Why is compassion such a difficult concept? Maybe because the hearts of so many are waxing cold. Lots of hatred out there.

anti-liar
Salt Lake City, UT

@ abbygirl1994
Walt Nicholes has a point. Else why didn't the church in fact sign the compact? It did not.

Razzle2
Bluffdale, UT

"Only the Dark Side believes in absolutes" - Star Wars Episode 1

Compassion gives everyone their chance in court.

- Children born in the US are US citizens which is also the law. Like it or not is has to be since many countries don't accept automatic citizenship from children born in another country, so you can't deport them to a country that does not accept them. Children with parents from two countries may not have a country. Some Utahn's would split the family up.
- Harsh prejudices of one group may cause prejudices of legal immigrants or worse our own citizens. Speak English idea is against all people that are different and has nothing to do with illegal status.

I work in Brazil and I dont speak Portuguese. I am so thankful the Brazilians are more tolerant than some of these ignorant commenters.

American Spartan
Taylorsville, Utah

Utah Compact signing session outside Utah Capitol building is a publicity stunt.

"Moderate" is a code word for "preferred liberalism."

Who benefits from open immigration, including illegal? Displacing native Utah population with deprivation of employment, increased crime, increased expenditure for education and law enforcement, and welfare subsidization by citizen taxpayers.

This is a charade. I sent the letter to a few duly-elected Utah lawmakers urging them to ignore Utah Compact as political grandstanding that mocks and disregards rule of law and proper assimilation for cheap labor and increased church membership. It's all about money and alternative political landscape in new demographic.

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