Comments about ‘Illegals not responsible for most crime, data indicate’

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Published: Friday, Oct. 29 2010 11:21 p.m. MDT

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Candidate Jackson
Sandy, UT

Lots to be learned from this article and the comments being posted, depending on what is real. A prison with 2,000 undocumenteds out of 2,300 prisoners? Is that true? Fifty thousand Utah kids are victims of identity theft? I do answer one post, the one saying we are a nation of immigrants -- legal immigrants. I would note that was back when immigration was legal, and we make it so difficult now that it has become, for many, illegal.
I wish we would change our laws, make it legal for them to come. Are we to deprive all of being Americans because some of those who come are coming are committing crime? Are we throwing the good immigrants in a pool with those who commit crimes? Our system of dispensing liberty and justice for all should not be so. Rather than asking whether they are legal, we should ask if we should allow them to come legally, making them legal. Many of them simply want to be Americans, simply want to pursue happiness. Do we tell them to seek their refuge elsewhere, because the previous person out of that country murdered someone? -- John Jackson

John C. C.
Payson, UT

For those who don't want any more of "them" crossing the border, no amount of statistics will change their minds.

We need an infusion of new labor. Undocumented workers are more law abiding than native residents. They work harder for less pay. They seek government benefits more than native residents. They are less "entitlement" oriented. They pay taxes. The more we allow them to work here, the better life will be both here and in their home countries.

For those who say they only oppose illegal residents, I say, then why don't you support an increase in work visas? As it is now, it is virtually impossible for legal workers from abroad to meet the demand we have for their help. We need each other.

Nevertheless, statistics are on the side of allowing more visas.

Show amnesty unto visa violators as you would have amnesty shown unto us speeders and Utah use tax cheats.

gizmo33
St. George, Utah

well pure and simple if the goverment would do its job like its supposed to there would be no crimes committed by umdocumented worked because they wouldn't be here in the first place !!

Bobo
Magna, UT

John C. C. seems to not be aware that the current unemployment rate is about 10%. He also seems to be rather complacent about all the Americans who are out of work, can't pay their mortgages, and who need the jobs being held by illegals. He also seems to think that a low-wage economy is something our nation should strive for. The greatest increase in the middle-class and the wealth of the nation occurred during a time when immigration was very low. We need to work to make our nation better. Mass immigration is not the way to do it unless you are one of those exploiting cheap labor for your own benefit and to the detriment of the nation as a whole.

John C. C.
Payson, UT

Giovanni Peri, an associate professor at the University of California-Davis and a visiting scholar at the San Francisco Fed released a new study showing what economists have claimed all along, that immigration does not significantly impact the amount of jobs available to U.S.—born workers. Peri concludes that “there is no evidence that immigrants crowd out U.S.-born workers in either the short or long run.” Immigrants, both legal and illegal, help boost salaries increase jobs, and boost overall productivity.

The best way out of this recession is to allow a fresh flow of legal labor to join us.

Believe in the free market? A free flow of labor is part of a free market.

Believe in crime reduction? Arizona, Colorado, and other states with large immigrant inflows in the last decade enjoyed significant drops in violent crime over the same period. Can't say the same for the poor wretches stuck south of the border with few jobs available outside of running drugs north to our rich relatives and neighbors.

Don't believe it? Consider your sources, then look it up for yourself. Better yet, get to know some of our new brothers and sisters.

mickeymouse
Yakima, WA

thats very nice. they still don't belong here. nobody who comes here illegally does. doesn't matter what color they are or where they came from.

C. Darwin
Sandy, UT

Do not believe anything that the press says about illegals. Being in the country illegally is a crime. What about all the illegal drugs growing operations found in Utah this year? All that I heard of were run by illegals. DN, that is a felony crime. Please, report the other side of the story.

Let's be real
Salt Lake City, UT

Great. Now, let's get back to the issue at hand. An illegal person in this country is just that, ILLEGAL. I do not care if they are committing all the crime of none of it. They are still illegal. Period. Go home or try to get permanent citizen status but follow the laws of OUR land, not yours.

conservative scientist
Lindon, UT

The article fails to give a critical piece of information: What percentage of people in Utah are illegal immigrants? Surely this is an easy number for the reporter to find. If the number of illegals is lower than the % of people in detention for crimes, then there is a disproportionate percentage of crime being committed by illegals. You can't take only half of an equation and make sweeping generalizations. This is really poor journalism. Give us the rest of the numbers and then interpret them appropriately.

Third try screen name
Mapleton, UT

Perlich appears to suggest that growth is essential to a healthy economy. We have learned that a 3 percent growth rate is not sustainable and subject to devastating backlash.
Briggs (Cornell) and Chiswick (Chicago) suggest that we can and must learn how to create an economy that is not dependent upon population growth through immigration. The 1924-1965 pattern was successful and we relied on 4 percent foreign-born rather than the current 13 percent.
Another importany omission Perlich made in helping us understand that there is no labor shortage and there never was. The injection of willing workers to compete with low-skilled citizens only weakens wages...and benefits...and safety.

Grundle
West Jordan, UT

5% of criminals in Utah jails are undocumented immigrants…
12% of convicted murderers are undocumented immigrants…
8% of sex offenders are undocumented immigrants…
So…What percentage of the Utah population are undocumented immigrants?

The article’s premise is that these numbers do not support the assumption that undocumented immigrants are not proportionately represented.

Is Utah’s population really 5% undocumented immigrants??? 8% or 12%

I am confused…If 5% of Utah’s population are undocumented immigrants does that put the numbers at approximately 139,000 people (2,784,572 * 5%)?

Are there really that many?

I wish the article would explore the numbers more to support the assertions.

Ajax
Mapleton, UT

The majority sentiment expressed in the replies to the Sutherland study is fascinating. To so completely ignore what in fact is the reality of illegal immigration highlighted in this and other DN articles underscores the truthfulness of the adage that people mostly believe what they want to believe and find what they look for. The real question is why is it that so many Utahns are so fervently fixated on so much that is simply nonsense on the perils of illegal immigration?

Grundle
West Jordan, UT

Re:Ajax

What is the reality of illegal immigration highlighted in this article????

Not arguing with you but your reply seeems to turn a blind eye to the missing arguements?

What is it that we want to believe that this article points out??

Are we accepting at face value from this article that there are no problems with illegal immigrants here in Utah? The actual numbers seem to refute that premise.

raybies
Layton, UT

It's time we stop using illegal immigration as the scapegoat for all our social woes. The truth is that failing moral standards are far more destructive than having hard working people who don't speak the language join us in a pursuit of happiness and prosperity.

Rather than heaping blame upon illegal immigrants we should be pursuing policies that welcome them, and encourage the best cultural ideals among them--perserving their strong work-ethic and moral values, applauding their ingenuity and determination.

It's time to unplug the haters that continue to insist that the only solution to illegal immigration is a warlike stance. It's time to ignore the fearmongers that continue to infest these sorts of forums claiming that they're going to be overrrun any day now. And it's time to make the most of this opportunity by creating an atmosphere that is inclusive rather than exclusive. One based upon brotherly kindness, cooperation and love rather than distrust, hatred and prejudice.

Believe it or not, illegals care about the same sorts of fears and problems that our nation faces--but we've yet to actually engage their support. Instead it's the blamegame.

  • 6:38 a.m. Nov. 2, 2010
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attentive
Salt Lake City, UT

Maybe only 5% of those in JAIL are illegal, but that just means that most of them are still on the streets. Just watch and listen to the news every evening. It's a no-brainer.

NevadaCoug
Overton, NV

I don't doubt that a majority of crime is committed by citizens. The fact remains, however, that a significant percentage of illegal aliens in this country do not respect the laws. If they did, they wouldn't be here.

Also, I wonder how many of those sitting in our jails, while considered legal residents themselves, are the CHILDREN of illegal immigrants? Maybe they should incorporate THAT into their study.

AnnieZ
Durham, NC

Let's Be Real - No such thing as "permanent citizen" status. I think you are thinking of "permanent resident" status, and that isn't a status one can obtain when they don't permanently reside in the US.

It is amazing to me how people who are all about "enforcing" the law to keep out immigrants don't even know or understand what the immigration laws are. You have NO idea how few visas to the US are currently allowed and how difficult it is to immigrate legally. Nor do you have any idea of how antiquated our law is and how current laws do not address the realities of the 21st century labor force.

Also, it illegal presence in the US is a civil infraction, not a crime. There is no such thing as a "criminal" civil law. But also it is not surprising that many of you folks who talk about enforcing the law don't actually understand the legal system.

AnnieZ
Durham, NC

For those of you asking for more certainty with statistics, numbers can only quantify what is quantifiable. The professors point out some of the shortcomings of the numbers. They are measuring prison populations where the numbers of undocumented persons will be overrepresented in comparison to the total number of people who have committed crimes (undocumented workers are more likely to be remanded into custody and not paroled for the reasons cited by the authors).

Also, there is no such thing as a precise measurement of undocumented workers. Any number offered is merely speculative. You cannot compare the prison population numbers to the speculative numbers regarding the percentage of undocumented workers in the population at large.

Hunt
Spanish Fork, UT

Pay attention to what is not told you in the news when you here about crime in Utah. Many illegals are committing these crimes and skipping town before they can be held accountable.
Citizens who are victims of crime by illegals are the ones that pay the price by both the crime and justice not being served.
The media is white washing these issues and are keeping this information from you in their biased attempt to sway opinion.
Look at the Deseret News stories and show me where you have seen even one article that is written in a way that reflects negatively on illegals. It is disgusting how real journalism is completely ignored in favor of agendas.

RetiredCPO
Chula Vista, CA

If illegal aliens were effectively discouraged from being here in the first place, they would then account for zero percent of violent crime--or any crime for that matter. And yes, we have the technology and manpower to button down the border. We simply lack the will.

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