Article quote: "His (Reid's) allegiance is to Salt Lake City," Sonrise Church
Pastor John Reed told The Associated Press this month. "It should be to the
American people.""Uhhh...., I and any other truly active LDS member
can absolutely, positively GUARANTEE you that the agenda Reid is pushing does
not, in any way, shape or form coincide with the teachings of the Savior's
church. Christ, and His church, do not espouse forced 'wealth redistribution',
higher than necessary taxes, massive financial irresponsibility, ignoring the
will of the people who elected you to sacred positions of authority and, in the
case of Obamacare, complete disregard for the righteous principles of freedom
outlined in the U.S. Constitution, ie, forcing someone to pay a fine for doing
nothing (choosing to not participate in nationalized health care).Reid is LDS on paper but he understands Mormonism about as well as I
understand nuclear physics.Conservatives: Remember in November!
I find it funny that most "Anti Mormons" have no idea what we believe-just
rumors they hear. I think if people keep judging others based on one's beliefs
or appearance or gender, then this country is in for hard times.
Show me where it is written in the Bible that someone ELSE gets to determine
whether I am Christian or not. My faith is between me and God. On
the other hand, there are many scriptures in the NT where people accused Christ
and his followers of myriad offenses - being of the Devil, believing false
doctrine, leading others astray. Christians were accused in early days of being
a cult. So by that comparison, I guess we Mormons fare pretty well.I
would just like to see us all get along. There is so much to be done in the
world today to solve problems in our society. It is really disheartening to see
that some would rather bicker about who is helping, rather than just shouldering
the work together.
"A guy with a brain", you say that " Christ, and His church, do not espouse
forced 'wealth redistribution'"Then please explain to me how it is
requirement in the Savior's church to provide 10% of you income to the church?
And then what does the church do with that money? The Bishop in my
ward uses some of those funds to aid the people in my ward who are poor and
having a hard time financially. That to me fits the concept of forced 'wealth
redistribution'.They also ask for ward budget contributions and the
wealthy are asked to pay more than a poor person.AS for your
Obamacare comment, if an uninsured person is in an accident and runs up a
million dollar healthcare bill that they can't pay, who gets to pay? You and I
do, so they are infringing on me by not getting coverage. I am happy that those
deadbeats are going to be fined if they are irresponsible and don't buy
insurance.I guess you like the deadbeat uninsured forcing you to pay
for their healthcare!Also, the majority of debt was createed by
Republicans, despite your refusal to accept that reality!!!
I find it hysterically FUNNY that this Sonrise pastor has convinced himself,
that Harry Reid's loyalty is to "Salt Lake City", no sir, Harry Reid's FIRST and
ONLY concern is himself. Nothing or no one else. He's just another political
I enjoy when people say Mormons aren't Christians. You can ask them what
authority they have to determine that. They will tell you that they have no
authority.Just a group of people who say things without thought.That's the problem with this nation, there's not alot of thinking of
which candidate is going to serve this country better. It's who can you belittle
and critisize the most.
I would think that the rest of the world would "get a clue" that Mormons are
very diverse in their political opinions if they just consider the diverse views
of Harry Reid and Mitt Romney!POLAR OPPOSITES!It matters
not WHICH political party Mormons are involved with, just so they CARE enough to
gwb, show me where you go to jail for not paying the 10% tithing. It's not
forced. It is a free will offering. As for money to assist the poor, that
comes from fast offerings, another free will offering gathered on the first
sunday of the month door to door, both mormons and non mormons that care to
contribute. Christ said take care of the poor. He didn't say give me your
money and I'll decide.Also ward budget contributions ended years
ago, which shows you really have no concept of what is going on now. Maybe,
you should go back and see how things are actually run now days.
first of all, the story states "about a third of Idaho's population is
Mormon".... seriously? a third of the entire Idaho population is mormon? I
didn't think even Utah was 1/3 mormon. does anyone know if this 1/3rd of Idaho
is correct? I just find it hard to believe.secondly, people do NOT
want to elect highly religious people. It is IMPOSSIBLE for religious people,
especially zealots (and by zealots I mean people who's religion is
all-consuming) to take religion and religious beliefs out of their "equations"
and position on issues. And the mormon religion is a zealot religion. No
offense meant by that - it simply means that religion is the most important part
of your lives.It terrifies me (and most other reasonable people)
that there may be an extremely religious person elected to high office. Not
because I think religion is simply hocus-pocus (even though I do think that) -
but because biblical morality will reign rather than liberty.The
only reason I feel this way is because major churches (especially LDS) have a
habit of forcing their moral views onto everyone already. Imagine if the
president was in a zealotous religion...
What I find funny (as an active LDS person) is the double standard we have.
People who react negatively to a candidate's Mormonism are bigoted. When other
people (hello Utah Republicans) react unusually favorably toward a candidate for
the same reason (Mitt Romney getting 90%+ in a primary vote???) that is suddenly
OK? I am not saying Romney is a bad guy, but to get 90% of the vote here was way
off base...his record as Mass. gov and Olympic hero was not enough to earn that
kind of support. It was religion.
GWB Ward budgets went away - - - many years ago
GWB - Apparently you are not very active in your "ward" or you would realize
that tithing (a 10% voluntary contribution) is different that fast offerings (a
different voluntary contribution used to help the poor in times of need).
Neither are "forced" redistribution of wealth. Both are voluntary
contributions. In addition, the Church no longer has "ward budget
contributions" and hasn't for quite a long time. Maybe it is time you either go
back to church and find out what you claim to believe or drop the pretense and
admit that you don't know what you are talking about.There are good,
active, members of the LDS church in both parties as well as good, upstanding
citizens in other churches. Look at what they stand for as politicians and
citizens and not what religion they do or don't claim to belong to.It's time we quite this patrician bickering and look for common ground. As
Jesus Christ said, "...sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof" (Matt 6:34)
and as Abraham Lincoln said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."
@GWB...You are Way Wrong! Your Bishop does not use the tithing funds to help
those in your ward! This shows how ignorant you are of the LDS faith. All
tithing funds go to Church Headquarters. The computer program that is used does
not allow any tithing funds to stay local.The Ward budget went away
Years ago so I take it that you are not LDS or you have not been active for many
years.Also, it was the this administration that Doubled the debt in
just 18 months. That's doubled what GWB did in 8 years.Please get
the facts before you post!
GWB, politics aside - you are so misinformed it's comical and almost not worth
commenting on but here goes.Just a couple facts you don't
understand:1)Tithing money (the 10% you refer to) is not used to "to aid
the people in my ward who are poor and having a hard time financially". Fast
Offerings are used to aid the poor - and Fast Offerings are 100% voluntary
contributions. Besides, the prescribed way for an LDS bishop to aid the poor is
so vastly different than the US Government way that you can't even compare the
two. True, some bishops dole out handouts without requirement to do anything in
return but the underlying premise of the church welfare program is to teach and
promote self sufficiency. Administered properly, church welfare funds are
usually always temporary and always include accountability and progress towards
self sufficiency by the recipient.2)It must have been a while for
you because the church hasn't asked for ward budget contributions for over 20
years, and back when they did ask for them, those were voluntary too.
@ GWB Ignorance is bliss isn't it? First, if you read the Bible in Malachi you
can read all about the Lords tithing plan. Second, No tithing goes to help needy
people. That comes from fast offerings. (Both of which are voluntary. Also: If Obamacare is so good for us, Why did the senate and congress exempt
themselves from all of the requirements that the rest of us would have to
follow?As for the debt being mostly from republicans.. Why is that when
congress was caught bouncing all those checks, it was BY FAR the majority of the
offenders who were Democrats.Note: Best to keep quiet and be thought a
fool, than to open your mouth and remove ALL doubt.
I believe that actually the more people bring in the discussion (and sometimes
accusations) about whether or not Mormons are Christians then more people will
get better explanations. Will there always be the "Polygamy" group and the
"cult" group out there who will not quit (yes) but most people will become
educated. If not totally educated, then maybe at least a bit more enlightened
about basic inaccuracies and fallacies. Maybe??
"Reid is LDS on paper but he understands Mormonism about as well as I understand
nuclear physics."So judgmental? Why don't we let Harry Reid, his
judge in Israel, and the Eternal Judge decide what he understands and does not
understand about the Church? You are entitled to disagree with his politics,
but not entitled to question his faith, understanding, and position within the
Church.The Master taught us to ignore the mote in our brothers eye
while we have a beam in ours.
LDS Church authorities have been very clear. Principles of the Jesus' gospel
can be found in BOTH parties. Harry Reid is pro-life and supports the
definition of marriage between a man and a woman, while Mitt Romney as Gov. of
MA signed legislation providing public funding of abortions. "We"
are the govt. We elect people to enact laws. Poverty is a moral issue. I am
grateful I live in a country which believes in a basic level of dignity for
every individual while encouraging people to be productive. I would not want to
live in a country where all the wealth is concentrated in the hands of the
ruling elite and the vast majority live in poverty. Every single one of us pay
taxes for things we don't like. Why should those without children pay to
educate other's children? Why should those who oppose war pay taxes to support
war and a large military? Everybody has choices. But not choices
Of course tithing is forced.What happens if you don't pay it?
Revocation of your temple recommend and the inability to attain the celestial
kingdom.... basically eternal punishment. This is no different than forcing
someone to buy insurance or pay taxes for threat of paying a fine. It is
ultimately your choice to pay, but if you don't you will face consequences. As for the Mormon/Christian issue, if you want to understand where
people are coming from when they don't want to accept you as Christians, then
ask yourselves why you get so defensive when people describe members of the
'FLDS' church as Mormons? Sometimes minor doctrinal differences are
enough reason to for people to want to disassociate with each other.
"His allegiance is to Salt Lake City," Sonrise Church Pastor John Reed told The
Associated Press this month. "It should be to the American people."John Reed is either willfully ignorant about clown prince harry's voting
record or willfully deceptive.GWB, others have already chastised you
for your incorrect statements about VOLUNTARY (not forced) donations to the LDS
church. Let's talk now about your fallacies concerning federal debt.When bush had a repub congress, gross federal debt increased by an average of
$470 billion per year. When he had a dem congress, gross federal debt increased
by $767 billion per year.Gross federal debt increased from $9.986
trillion at the end of 2008 to $11.876 trillion at the end of 2009 - BO's first
year. Government projections show the debt will increase to $13.787 trillion by
the end of 2010. Gross federal debt has increased by an average of almost $2
trillion every year BO has been in office with dem majorities in both houses of
congress. Who gave us the debt?????
Less government is good for all, regardless of party or religion.Common
ground all should feel good about voting for.
Some of the comments here--the ones that imply that if you understand the
gospel, LDS doctrine, etc., you must of necessity be Republican--these comments
disturb me. I don't live in NV but CA, but if I lived in NV I certainly would
vote for Harry Reid over Sharon Angle, and I voted for Obama in 2008 (largely
because Mcain chose Sarah Palin as his running mate).Yes, you can be
a dem and a Mormon; you can understand LDS doctrine, the gospel, have been on a
mission, go to the temple, hold leadership callings (all of which I have done
and continue to do), etc., etc....and still be a dem.Shocking, isn't
Whose side is Pastor Reed on?If Pastor Reed alienates the Mormon
vote, and the vote of all friendly neighbors of Nevada Mormons, he is going to
get Sen. Reid re-elected. Can't he see that there are plenty of people in
Nevada that don't like Sen. Reid's political viewpoints and his meanspirited
comments to get someone else elected. Unless that "someone else"
goes and makes a lot of really stupid statements. Which is probably what Pastor
Reed is trying to do - draw attention away from how poorly the Republican
candidate is doing right now.If we get Reid for another term it will
not be because of the Mormon vote. It will because of the poor choice for
spaghedeity"minor doctrinal differences?" There are major differences
between the LDS church and other churches that have fallen/broken off from the
church. Just as there are major differences between the Catholic churhc and all
the reformers.Speaking of doctrine, I seem to remember Jesus as the one
who put forth a plan that include free agency. The other plan that was put
forth sounds and looks alot like what we are being forced into by our benevolent
To A Guy With A Brain: I'm not sure that you belong to the same LDS Church that
I do. I personally feel that many of President Obama's iniatives (Healthcare
reform) in particular are not at all at odds with our Mormon beliefs about
caring for the needy and so-forth. I am one active Mormon that thinks Harry
Reid is doing a great job and if I lived in Nevada I would vote for him in a
heart beat. Sounds like your more comfortable with Mormon politicians like Orin
Hatch who believe heathcare is "a priviledge and not a right". Well, we all
know who gets the "priviledges" in Amereica - its the wealthy Americans like
Mitt Romney and Corporate America who will continue to just buy off our elected
officials so that they can preserve those priviledges for themselves. So I
guess you don't speak for all Mormons do you?
GWBMan, you' are way off topic here, Mormonism to Obamacare and
Wealth Distribution to Majority of Debt created by Republicans. I would say that
you are very much misinformed. Under the US Constitution, the federal government
cannot spend any money that has not been approved by congressional
appropriations; and, by congressional precedent, appropriations bills originate
in the House. "No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of
Appropriations made by Law," says Article 1, Section 9, Clause 7 of the
Constitution. "By precedent, appropriations originate in the House, with the
Senate following suit," says the House Rules Committee in an explanation of the
appropriations process. Congress create the debt, not Bush or Obama (while I
could effectively debate that Obama's policies have led to $3 Trillion in new
debt so far). I am not speaking only to this and previous congress under House
Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, that has added, according to the Bureau of the Public
Debt, approximately $5 Trillion but to every congress that has taken part in
the entitlement programs this country has embraced. Perhaps next time you will
come to the discussion with more that emotional arguments and discuss
An underlying item here is that outside of Utah and Idaho and Arizona, the tea
party is dominated by people who hate Mormons. The LDS in the mountain west
need to be wary of the tea party.
Who cares?If people refuse to vote for someone just because he/she's
a Mormon... who cares? It's their perogative!But if we KEEP voting
for people just because of their religion... or their party affiliation... or
their position on one or two hot-topics... the government will continue to be as
disfunctional as it is now.Vote for people with INTEGRITY,
INTELEGENCE and HONOR! Regardless of their religion or party!
Whether or not you can trust someone depends on the person. not their professed
religion. Be wary of people who use religion to convince voters.
Free Agency - yes. Freedom of responsibility to our fellow brothers and
sisters, nope. I would love to find even the smallest section of scripture,
pick what ever you may, that talks in even the most indirect terms about the
capitalism, building of personal wealth, or the lack of responsibility to pay
taxes. Just one...At another level, we are the government. We will
be judged for the priorities that our representative body does in our name. If
personal wealth is your priority, it will act accordingly. If taking care you
fellow brothers and sisters is a priority, it will likewise act accordingly. It
is not a foreign power here to enslave, it represents us as a society and we
collectively are responsible for its actions.The church has been
ever so clear about the standard it expects of its members when it comes to
political debate. Evidently shouting down the other side is worth ignoring that
direct admonition. For those who seem to know so much about what and how the
budget is spent, they seem to not be very clear on the standard the church
leadership has asked its members to live by. It include defaming others...
This article doesn't have all of the details but I hope it was understood at the
rally that Vandersloot is LDS. Its only going to increase anti-Mormon sentiment
if Mormons are making it sound like other Mormons might vote as a block.
The the person who claimed Harry read was pro-Life, Look ta his voting recod
since becoming Democrat leader, Not one pro-life vote. As for Gay marrage,
Harry Reid attacked the federal marriage amendment, that the church heavilly
Mormonism and politics don't mix in any campaigns. There are NOT enough LDS in
America to make a difference here. Church beliefs such as abstinence from
alcohol or its practice of baptism by proxy for people who have died may seem
exotic to some. Others associate it with polygamy, even though the church
renounced the practice 120 years ago. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid faced
allegations from his Republican opponent's pastor that he is a member of a cult.
Reid is a Mormon convert. Republicans accused Mormon Democrat Keith Allred of
pandering to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to wrest the
governor’s office from incumbent C.L. "Butch" Otter. About a third of
Idaho’s population is Mormon, and candidates’ success could hinge on
how well they court the LDS vote. Mitt Romney, one of the most prominent Mormon
politicians, faced skepticism during his 2008 presidential run among voters who
questioned if his allegiance would be to the country or to church leaders in
Salt Lake City. The focus on his religion was so intense, it became dubbed
Romney’s "Mormon moment."
Our religion says "care for the poor," not "force everyone else by threat of
fine or imprisonment to care for the poor." The Savior would want us to care
for the poor with our own money, not someone else's.The poor are
right here among us. It's dumb to send our money on a wasteful round-trip
through Washington, D.C., when it's needed right here.
Whatever Harry Reid's politics, some of which I disagree with, above all else,
he is my brother, a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints. Brotherhood trumps all. I will defend my brother in his religious faith,
which I share.
I think a Mormon candidate has a much better chance running as a Democrat then a
Republican. I lived in the South and the main reason why we're not considered
Christian is that we think of the Trinity differently then most main stream
Christianity. Also the fact we have the Book of Mormon, and a few other things.
But, I don't know why Mitt wants to be president anyway. You are responsible
for a nation at war, among other things. I don't know why anyone would want
When I vote....I vote for the person. Not a party, not a religion, not a
vote on looks or if he/she is a good speaker and says what people want to
hear.I vote on the person, on their record, what they have done in the
past compared to what the SAY they are going to do in the future.All this
bellyacking over a persons religion is just plain STUPID !!!!!!Yes,
people, LDS people can be good Americans (unless your Tom Hanks).LDS vote
Republican and Democrate.I know that some LDS even voted for gay
marraige....I think that to keep a good LDS person out of office
just because they are LDS is bigoted and defanately not based on the principals
that this country SHOULD stand on!No, I would not vote for a person
just because they were LDS and I believe that is wrong, just like I believe that
it is crazy and in my view point un-American and un Christian to keep a good
person out of office just because they happened to be LDS
@Mormon Liberal, Do you agree,with the Mormon block? "When our leaders speak,
the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan, it’s God’s.
When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. “Ward teachers
message” 5/26/45.“You may not like what comes from the
authority of the church. It may contradict your political views. It may
contradict your social views. It may interfere with your social
life...let’s keep our on the President of the Church.” Harold B
I am offended when someone tells me that I am not a Christian because I am a
Mormon. I think it is equally offensive when we LDS tell fellow LDS that they
are not good members when they uphold principles of one party or another (most
frequently, we pick on Democrats). While not a Democrat myself, we have no
grounds to comment on someone's worthiness, etc. based on party affiliation.Let's all stop this...remember the counsel of Pres. Uchtdorf and
President Hinckley to be more tolerant.
I would suggest that more people should be informed of a variety of issues, then
look at what you know of the candidates and vote by whom you feel will be the
best qualified candidate. The previous 10 years the Republicans had their way
with Congress and the country. The only reason the Democrats have increased the
debt is becaused the Republicans allowed businesses to near destroy our economy
and put millions of people out of work. The voters got rid of the Republicans,
but not the problems they caused and supported. I would have not given any money
to big businesses to keep them afloat, but let them sink to where ever. I would
have put that money into direct jobs for the unemployed to get our economy going
again. Both parties are not doing right, but the Republicans would be far worse
off for America as for what they would start doing again. We would lose every
thing this time.
Outside of Utah/Idaho, I don't think that Democrats are assumed to be inactive
members... or on the road to apostasy. The Church doesn't tell us which party to
belong to and very rarely speaks out on any particular issues. The only
political admonition is to be involved and informed in our communities and to
stand up for what we (individually) feel is right. As far as the
whole "Mormons aren't Christian thing," I can't tell you how many times I heard
that growing up. It was always followed by: "you believe _________ (fill in the
blank with something outrageously absurd and insulting). YOU don't know, but my
pastor does. He's studied it!" I always wondered what crazy seminar these couple
of pastors went to and just what religion they were studying!
As one who recently spent three years on a mission in the South, I am certain
Evangelicals will never vote for Romney. Mitt: Save your money and your time.
Forget about running for President. Besides, conservatives want a true
conservative - not a Republican elitist who endorsed McCain for the Senate.
Mr. Miller is inaccurate. This is Mrs. Angle's former pastor who attacked
Reid. She and her husband changed to a different congregation about six months
ago, and it was only a few weeks ago her former pastor went on the attack on
Mormonism as a cult.Some have tried to compare this to Obama being
in a Church where the pastor denounced America. While i would say the
comparison fails on a lot of levels even in context, the main failure is that
Obama was a parishoner of Wright when he denounced America and so he could have
left the congregation in protest. I am not saying he should have done so, just
that it was a possibility.Since Mrs. Angle left this man's
congregation several months ago, she can not exactly leave it again.
Again this all begs the question, why do Mormons want to align themselves with a
party that has so many of it that hold them in disdain. Mormon Republicans will
never be welcomed into the mainstream of a party ran by evangelicals.
Romney campaigning against the Mormon candidate for governor in Idaho shows
that in political matters his first loyalty is not the advancement of his fellow
religionists. I would say this is probably a good thing. Even more
importantly it undermines the arguments that largely begin with writers at the
"New Republic" that Romney would sacrifice the good of the nation to advance the
interests of the Mormon Church. Romney's open campaigning for a
non-Mormon Republican in Idaho faced by a Mormon Democrat is probably the best
actions Romney could be doing right now to build credibility with Republicans
who are of other faiths than Romney is.
John Pack:Whatever Romney does will not endear him to those whose
religion actively teaches against the "Mormon cult". Sorry....but they won't.
I'm a practicingLDS who isn't a conservative Republican, and I am extremely
dismayed-evendisgusted by most of these anti-Reid posts. Am I unworthy of your
fellowshipbecause I'm Democrat? You judge me, but there're many who stand with
me, wondering how anyone can be a Beck-loving Republican, more interestedin
cutting taxes, justifying class divisions the B.of.M. reminds us are bad--than
helping poor, living upto K.Benjamin and redistributing wealth if necessary.
Icould give you a few B.Young quotes on redistributingwealth, or a GeoQ.Cannon
quoteonwhytheUnitedOrders of the 1870s didn't work, because of too much emphasis
on a capitalist, selfcentered mindset (The OrderofEnoch notworking, so they
dropped down to something lower that they could handle-sound historically
familiar?)--you'd counter with EzraTaft Benson quotes, I'd counter back with a
HughB.Brown quote-onandon. We refer to "big tents"-the biggest tent is the
Gospel-it's a worldwide Church. Your political positions make sense in an
American context, but Canadians,Asians,Swazis and Social-Democrat German
converts may have different views on things. Get off your rhetorical "I'm better
than you" wagon and jump onto Christ's.
There is a lot about people in every church, religion or other that is both good
and bad. When did that stop the founding fathers from banding together to
declare their independence from a repressive, state-mandated, environment. Regardless of religious affiliation, a good person who upholds the
majority of the american agenda "...by the people, for the people..." has the
right to represent the majority. The minority can cast a voice but their views
don't necessarily have to overtake the american people's choice for liberty and
freedom.Above someone made a comment about the Tea Party and mormons
steering away from them. The Republican party at the time of Abraham Lincoln was
trying to ban mormons from supporting their causes. Before the turn of the 20th
century, nearly all of the Mormon population were Democrats because they had
been persecuted and driven out by the Republicans of Illinois. History is funny that way. Party lines have flip flopped so often that the
views they support are clearly poluted. Even Georgia, a traditionally Blue-Dog
Democrat State is now a majority republican because of conservativism and family
values, all strong in GA.Remember power to the people!
Gee, Dr Hall, you have spoken as a true follower of the Democratic party. That
is the propaganda they would have everyone believe. President Bush was the one
who spent billions of dollars on completely useless bailouts which are not
working, right? He is the one who increased the national debt to over 13
trillion dollars by just giving money away. Oh, excuse me, that was Obama,
wasn't it? During the Bush administration, we were working, our economy was
prospering and anyone who wanted a job could have one. Now, unemployment is
looming around 10 percent. Because of the current administration we have had
not increases in Social Security for the past two years, yet the cost of
medicine as well as Medicare went sky high. They actually cut our retirement
but did it in a very, sneaky manner by raising Medicare. Then they had the nerve
to say that we are lucky not to have a cut in Social Security. But even there
they told a lie. They simply raised Medicare and took more of our meager
retirement. Shame on this administration for not accepting responsibility for
its own actions.
Jmason —Not shocked by your words, just saddened. As the Deseret News
reported recently (re voter apathy in UT), in 1962 1/3 of the state of UT
identified as Republican, 1/3 as Democrat, and 1/3 as Independent. I believe
that your Democrat affiliation today, like other LDS I know, is due to tradition
and, as yet, an unwillingness to embrace what Ronald Reagan stated so well that
same year (’62), “I didn’t leave the Democrat party; the party
left ME.” The history of political parties is that they shift, while the
principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ remain constant. Please
read Zell Miller’s “A National Party No More: The Conscience of a
Conservative Democrat” (2003) by the former Georgia Governor/Senator, in
which he argues that the Democratic Party lost its majority because it does not
stand for the same ideals that it did in the era of John F. Kennedy. He argued
that the Democrat Party, as it now stands, is a far left-wing party that is out
of touch with the America of today (can you say Barack Obama?)
'Vote for people with INTEGRITY, INTELEGENCE and HONOR! Regardless of their
religion or party!"Well if this is definition of who I should vote
for then I guess there is no one to vote for. Lets see Integrity,
Intelligence, Honor and Politician? Nope those words just don't belong together.
In todays political climate its the "lesser of two evils" Please don't give me
the argument that Lee, Philpot, Matheson, Bishop, Chaffetz have these qualities.
Certainly Orrin Hatch does not! They are politicians, there are NO politicians
who have these characteristics. I plan on plugging my nose and just vote
to donn-I was amazed by your first statement, having never heard it
before, so I looked it up."When the ward teaching message was
published, concerns were raised regarding how this statement would be
interpreted. President George Albert Smith(the current prophet at the time)
responded to a concern expressed by Dr. Raymond A. Cope of the First Unitarian
Society: The leaflet to which you refer, and from which you quote
in your letter, was not "prepared" by "one of our leaders." However,
one or more of them inadvertently permitted the paragraph to pass uncensored.
By their so doing, not a few members of the Church have been upset
in their feelings, and General Authorities have been embarrassed." [Please
see the rest of his response in the next comment posted by Mayfair.]
[Rest of the response by George Albert Smith]"I am pleased to assure
you that you are right in your attitude that the passage quoted does not express
the true position of the Church. Even to imply that members of the
Church are not to do their own thinking is grossly to misrepresent the true
ideal of the Church, which is that every individual must obtain for himself a
testimony of the truth of the Gospel, must, through the redemption of Jesus
Christ, work out his own salvation, and is personally responsible to His Maker
for his individual acts. The Lord Himself does not attempt coercion
in His desire and effort to give peace and salvation to His children. He gives
the principles of life and true progress, but leaves every person free to choose
or to reject His teachings. This plan the Authorities of the Church try to
follow." President George Albert Smith, Dec. 7, 1945
KM"There are major differences between the LDS church and other churches
that have fallen/broken off from the church."There may be "major
differences" but the LDS Doctrine looks vastly more similar to the RLDS or other
Splinter groups than it does with other Christian Churches.To deny
that is just wishful thinking.socal"Why did the
senate and congress exempt themselves from all of the requirements that the rest
of us would have to follow?"Just another INCORRECT excerpt from
false emails that the right sends out daily.Totally false
statement.The right would rather win with lies than tell the truth. There is certainly enough TRUE information with which you can beat up
the Dems. Why the constant lies?
This reeks of Acorn-like tactics.It's called "divide and conquer".If
the Dems can stoke the flames of resentment, within this country, between the
Mormons and the Evangelicals, they will get their candidate in again.Let
us not forget the Huckabee endorsements in 2008. I think he was a Clinton
plant.Mitt will see another Huckabee-type plant again, in 2012.Trust
Vote out all incumbents until they start representing their constituencies!!! I
have never held political office, but have degrees in Economics, Spanish,
International Studies. I am an LDS independent transplanted from Oregon to
Texas, so I am familiar with both political poles and everywhere in-between. Who wants to vote for me for President of the USA? Do you think I could
possibly do as poor a job as either GWB or BO? Neither represented well the
American sheeple who elected them.
So, we who are members of the church are not supposed to be promoting (as
members or within church) a particular party or political agenda.Further, we reject the notion that people should judge us as politically unfit
for office due to our membership in the church which, we maintain, will inform
but not control our political decisions.We have politicians (such as
Mr. Reid) who don’t fit the conservative mold that is somewhat common
among us but are more left of center.When someone attacks a left of
center Mormon politician, our defense is not that he should be judged as a
politician and not as a member of the church, but that he is not a
“good” member of the church (per our definition — his bishop
may disagree).Does that not then bring us back to the concept that
Mormon politicians are beholden to a particular political standard and should be
accepted or rejected based on their membership?We can’t have
it both ways.
Do yourselves a favor and DO NOT vote Mormon.Our state is a mess
with them in control.
Why do we care who is democrat or republican what matters is if we live the
Gospel of Jesus Christ and do our best to follow Christ's example. Harry Reid
obviously has his flaws but so does Romney or any other politician. Check that
any other human being, we all are imperfect and have our own opinions. Why do so
many of us judge those who have different views in politics? Who cares in what
the majority thinks you should be, we all have freedom of choice to choose our
own thoughts and what we want to believe in. We dont have the right to judge, we
need leave that up to our Supreme Creator.As a members of the church we
have the sacred duty to love one another. Even though I disagree with some
things Harry Reid may support doesnt mean I have the right to judge him.As
to the remarks the we are not christian that comes from people who let their
pastors tell them what to believe. I was told that countless times to my face
for two years. My statement back a smile and my testimony of our Savior Jesus
Re: MaddenYes, Romney got 90% of the vote in Utah, last I checked Utah is
only about 50% LDS, so somewhere along the way those not of the LDS faith were
voting for him too.It is like all of the African-Americans that voted for
Obama solely on his race. Forget his record (or serious lack thereof) and vote
by the color of his skin...Looking at all of the presidential candidates
from 2 years ago Mitt Romney was HANDS DOWN the most qualified person to lead
our country at this time. He is a business leader and has had great success in
turning companies around. Too bad the American people are too closed minded to
make a decision based on qualifications rather than what others say and what
their religion or racial background might be.
What absolutely astounds me is people tear apart Romney for being LDS, but yet
our current president attended a church in Chicago led by Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
Youtube him. His speeches are some of the most hateful, anti Caucasian vitrol I
have ever heard from someone who claims to be a man of God. At least with the
LDS church, what you see is what you get. Think what you want, but we NEVER
teach anyone to hate others!!
Harry Reid is a Mormon? Wait a minute.... I'M a Mormon?! I'm not sure we're
attending the same Mormon churches though because his views are polar opposites
of what mine are. He must be attending a "Liberal Mormon" church.
Mine's pretty conservative.
If the public will vote for an Islamic President, they should vote for anyone.
Romney will win the 2012 Republican nomination because of the number of
candidates that will be on the ballot for the primaries, it looks like there are
going to be up to 20 Republicans running for office, this will divy up the base
and evangelicals. Romneys base even though it's only about 20% of Republicans
is solidified behind Romneys genuine qualifications to be president. This will
hold while the rest of the many candidates fight over the the other 80%. The
more the merrier!
Harry Reid of Nevada, though he claims to be a member of the Mormon Church, does
not necessarily portray issues held by main stream members of this denomination.
I agree above, I’ve never heard hate at LDS Church, always love all. And,
I’ve discussed previously with Charles that the Founders were religious
people who built on religious foundations. There’s no need to exclude the
Christian religion started in America. I feel the name calling
“cult,” “devil lovers” etc is immature misunderstanding
at best and hopefully it will inspire the openhearted to look at actual official
LDS sources to learn what LDS really believe. It’s interesting how much
misinformation is still out there. I dated a Christian girl in High School, in
Utah, and she believed that Mormons worshipped the devil in the Temple, it was
“the High Priesthood” only, and no one else knew about it. This is
silly, but sadly, her pastor had the entire congregation believing this. I hope
Christians, especially, will open their hearts and encourage congregations to
ask LDS what they actually believe, instead of trusting hateful or bigoted
sources. I feel this is what Jesus would have us all do. @sharonna/cmtman/don I quoted online Interlinear Bible translators. Again, we
can work together as Christians, although few agree on everything. @searching, next back Olmec U-Kix more nw?
Claiming that Reid's policies and political views are from the LDS Church
leadership is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Unless your talking
about the LDS Church's admonition to its members to be involved in the political
process. I give Reid the benefit of the doubt and think that he is probably a
very good member of the church. However, I am also Mormon and have polar
opposite political views as Reid. It is absurd to think any Mormon running for
office only has allegiance to the LDS Church, especially since one of the
Church's doctrines is that we should be loyal to our Country and that the
founding of this great nation was inspired by God. That pastor has absolutely no
credibility and sadly hurt the chances of Reid being voted out of office. I
still have hope that the Nevada people will do what is right and vote him out,
I am both stunned and sickened at the harshness of some of the comments made
about Harry Reid. I happen to know that Senator Reid is a very faithful
Latter-Day Saint. I don't agree with his politics all that much but I don't
think LDS conservatives have any basis for accusing him of being "LDS on paper
only". Actually, the Book of Mormon does talk a lot about helping the poor and
the problems of inequality (just sayin). Like it or not, Harry's positions are
not out of sync with the LDS Church. Whether or not you agree with his politics,
he is a very good man.
Sharon Angle's pastor has the same view as most So. Baptists- They just can't
stand religions that start with M. Mormon, Muslim or Mennonite, they hate 'em
If you are LDS and support the Tea Party movement open your freaking eyes, that
statement by Reid's pastor is what the Tea Party think about us Mormons. They
are an intolerant bunch and the allegations of racism and xenophobia hold true.
So Brother Informed VoterMay I ask some questions and get some
clarification on your comment? You state; "As one who recently spent
three years on a mission in the South, I am certain Evangelicals will never vote
for Romney." So you were a mission president...a three-year calling. Why would
you make this specification? Why not just say that you were on a mission (still
a true statement)? Could it be that knowing active LDS, as a rule, trust and
follow the counsel of church leaders, you were subtly trying to use this to make
your comments become more "doctrinal" to LDS readers? You go on to
say, "Mitt: Save your money and your time. Forget about running for President.
Besides, conservatives want a true conservative - not a Republican elitist who
endorsed McCain for the Senate." This seems a underhanded attack. If you
dislike Romney, say: "you aren't conservative enough for me and those that I
align with". Don't resort to name-calling and back-handed comments, a trait not
very desirable in a conservative, much less a former mission president. I'm conservative, LDS, active and disappointed.
The issue isn;t about Harry Reid, it is about religious intolerance and racism
prevalent in the Tea Party movement. Mitt Romney's run to the white house will
once again die in the Bible Belt.
'Mormonism and politics have merged in two western campaigns this month...' -
Article It's been alot longer than that. Prop 8,
CA, 2008 Amendment 3, UT, 2004 Civil Unions, HI, 1994
Gratz to my Mormon friends. You got what you wanted.
The Deseret News account of Harry Reid’s news conference at BYU on 9 Oct
2007:“Reid said Ezra Taft Benson, active in very conservative
politics before he became a president of the LDS Church, and Ernest L.
Wilkinson, the president of BYU from 1951-71, were among past church leaders
"who were very right-wing people politically.""Members of the church are
obedient," Reid said, "they are followers in the truest sense of the word, and I
think they've taken members of the church down a path that is the wrong
path.”Wrong path? “The Lord will never permit me or any
other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not
in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the
Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts
to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their
duty.” — Wilford Woodruff, Doctrine and Covenants
I know that religion shouldn't be an issue when chosing a person to represent
the electorate. But Harry Reid has given Latter-day Saints a bad name,
epecially among conservatives. As far as Sharron Angle is concerned, there are
a whole lot of LDS members in Nevada who are supporting and working for her
election.LDS conservatives; which I hope still constitute the
greater portion of the LDS population; are ashamed to admit that Dingy Harry is
a member of the Church. He just does not represent the standars of our faith.
To "Meckofahess | 3:58 p.m." Elder Ezra Taft Benson spoke against a bill similar
to what Obamacare has and will do. In 1978 he said "Today the party now in
power is advocating and has support, apparently in both major parties, for a
comprehensive national health insurance program--a euphemism for socialized
medicine. Our major danger is that we are currently (and have been for forty
years) transferring responsibility from the individual, local, and state
governments to the federal government--precisely the same course that led to the
economic collapse in Great Britain and New York City. We cannot long pursue the
present trend without its bringing us to national insolvency."In the
same talk he also condemns socialism and communism as being false plans from
SSMD - not everything a church leader says before they hold office is
"doctrine". Prophits from the time of Moses have made mistakes - none of them
have achieved perfection. Nothing has changed there. If you wish to assert that
every utterance a church leader says is "prophetic" and should be followed
blindly, I suggest you spend some time studying the Journal of Discourses.
While there are many great things tought in these records, there are also those
things which the church has distanced itself from. When Benson made
his comments, he was neither acting in a role as a church dignitary, nor was he
speaking for the church. He was speaking his opinion from his own personal
experiences. Applying what he said as being church doctrine is a
misrepresentation of the facts. His opinions in such matters carries
no more weight than any other person, other than the respect he had earned and
deserved through his years of service. But future President Benson was not
speaking for the church at that time.Bottom line is church leaders
are people, and have their own opinions. Only that which is spoken officially
Some people around here are a bit provential. Not in a really bad way. . . most
of it's good.But many in the Intermountain West need to learn about
politics in various parts of the country. Church affiliation has a lot to do
with politics in state and local elections.Try Boston and Mass with
Catholics. Try Atlanta and Southern Baptists (or several other locals around
the south). Lutheran Wisconsin and Minn..There's lots more.And if Pastor Reed had his devoted church member elected, I'm really
sure he would never visit that officials office for a "chat."Brother
Chuck Schroeder | 4:35 p.m. Oct. 26, 2010 A Tropical Paradise USA, FLMormonism and politics don't mix in any campaigns. There are NOT enough LDS in
America to make a difference here.So Chuck, what religion DOES mix
in a campaign? Several mix just fine in other locals.
Whether we admit it or not, the LDS Church is into Politics on certain things.
And that's ok .... we need to stand for what we believe even if it is looked at
to be "political".
If you vote FOR someone (just because they are a Mormon)... your a lame
brain.If you vote AGAINST someone (just because they are a
Mormon)... youre equally lame.
Where did GWB go? have an appt to find out what his budget allotment is? LOL!@Rox: Utah was voted as the best run state in the country. Not sure what
mess you are referring to.@radically_independent: While you attack
the messenger you are unable to dismiss the message. What in all of Benson's
speeches is incorrect? What hasn't come to pass?It's funny how LDS
folks dismiss Benson's speeches saying he wasn't speaking for the church then
and yet never, ever show how Benson was wrong. Why is that?----I don't care if anyone thinks I'm a Christian or not as it is irrelevant
to anything relating to my personal relationship with Christ and my gospel
understanding and my eternal progression.I'd like to remind all
those Evangelicals that they have no footing in the Christian debate. Either the
Catholics are correct and have authority from Peter down to today or there was a
need for a Restoration, not a Reformation.Who really cares what
Evangelicals think? Watch Sean McKearny? sometime and see how nutty Evangelicals
are and how poorly they interpret the scriptures.
RE: USA"I will defend my brother in his religious faith, which I
share."Not picking on you USA...but using a quote from your blog.
This is the VERY reason that the bulk of Americans who are not LDS will not
support an LDS candidate. They can't count on you protecting those that are NOT
of your faith or beliefs. Having been LDS and left...I have a great distrust
for LDS politicians. The "Culture" of being LDS has way too much hold on how
they vote on issues.
RE: SSMDIn that quotation President Wilford Woodruff was talking
specifically about the President of the Church (see Official Declaration 1).
Senator Reid was talking about then-ELDER Ezra Taft Benson (1960s
and early 70s) and BYU President Ernest L. Wilkinson. In those days GA's still
got involved in the political community. Hugh B. Brown stumpted for the
Democrats and Ezra Taft Benson was a very conservative Republican. Many of
Elder Benson's views in relation to the John Birch Society and other hard-right
beliefs were NOT shared by President McKay or senior apostles such as Joseph
Fielding Smith and Harold B. Lee who along with President Brown disagreed
strongly with Elder Benson (this is documented in the David O. McKay
Diaries...see "David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism".Senator
Reid's statement is accurate in that the conservative movement in Utah got a
boost (and still does) from statements made by then-Elder Benson in the 1960s.
He was not criticizing the Church president or Church leaders.
Last I checked about the only thing God really seems to care about is how you
live your life in accordance with his plan- he does not seem to care much for
your politics one way or another- hence we find his church all over the world in
all types of political regimes and we find him telling us to render unto Caesar
what is his- to suggest God favors capitlism or democracy or something like that
seems to really miss the point of Gods plan and the vast circumsatnces his
children live and have lived in for thousands of years- wealth accumulation and
use of it for ones personal desires though is something I am pretty sure he is
not in favor of- like always though people will distort the word of God to
appease their own self interest no matter what we might be discussing- I do find
it funny though that the highest ranking Mormon political actor ever is HR a dem
from Nevada- and no Sec. of Ag. is not higher ranking- not an elected office- oh
and per the Const. does not exist for you strict types
GOP members of the LDS Church are going to hate the United Order and living the
Law of Consecration.
Man I'm glad UT has only 5 electoral votes. Some of the views espoused on here
are woefully misinformed. For example, still thinking Obama is a
How is it the LDS church can stay out of debt, but not the country?
@ radically independent, Democrat:Benson was an apostle for more than two
decades before he became president, hence he was during that time sustained as a
prophet, seer, and revelator. Reid did not specify a timeframe nor a context of
his own criticism, and it seems presumptuous to assume he was talking only of
Benson’s comments before Benson was a general authority, or when Benson
was off duty, so to speak. Democrat, are you serious, saying that Wilford
Woodruff’s statement is applicable only to the Official Declaration? That
the Lord would allow a prophet in some other scenario to lead the people
astray?Church leaders have frequently reminded us in General Conference
and other settings that criticizing leaders is inappropriate and the beginning
of the road to apostasy. It also undermines the unity of spirit we should be
striving for and the faith of those that are new in the gospel. Reid’s
statements in the news conference were clearly inappropriate.Had been a
member in the 1960s I may or may not have agreed with Hugh B. Brown’s
political statements, but I think I would have had the class not to criticize
I give up...I can now honestly say I give up!Trying to keep the
Saints together is becoming impossible.The civil divide we see as a
nation, is nothing more the sifting of the wheat from the tares.I
share my tears with Mormon as he watched his "people" succum to greed, pride,
and selfishness. Rush Limbaugh and other talk radio hosts [who
embody and preach greed, pride, and selfishness] have more of an influence on
Utah Mormons than even LDS Prophets.Woe is all I can say now.....
GWB: It is not a requirement to pay tithing unless you are a regular temple
attendee, otherwise it is a choice. Fast offerings go to help the poor not the
tithing. Everyone pays the same Ward budget. We are not foced to pay any money
to the church. There are some out there that just cannot afford insurance and
they shouldn't be forced to. What should happen is that insurance should made
affordable for all.
Being a Mormon, Harry Reid would understand there is accountability for
associating with a party or organization whose platform is anti-traditional
family, promotes a Godless society, and abortion. Even if he himself does not
condone those things, why is he a part of it? Actions speak louder than words.
A Mormon in good standing disassociates himself and stays far away from the
above. He goes to church alright, but just in case it's true.
@LDS LiberalThe Lord wants to know who is on His side within
His own church. If we follow the Prophet, not Harry Reid, we're on His side.
For the record:You can still be an LDS temple recommend holder and:Not support Prop 8Be pro-choice (ie believe abortion should be used only
for cases of rape, incest and life-threatening situations but support women's
right to make decisions affecting their bodies).The LDS Church
(obviously against abortion) does not take a stand on Roe v Wade though Harry
Reid stated in the past he FAVORED overturning Roe v. Wade. The LDS
Church position is that Gospel principles can be found in BOTH parties.
Like I have always said ....Mormons and Republicans can never MIX....The God of
the Republican (Conservative Christian) is not the God of the Latter days
Saints. Its trying to dilute a God of spirit without body, part, or passions
into the God who is real ,tangeble and loving. There will always be division.
Like being in the world and of the world iinstead of being an ensign or a
standard to the world. Republicans will always pander to their God and expect
Mormons to do the same in order to follow their political agenda
NeoCONs: want all the benefits derived from paying taxes WITHOUT ever actually
paying any taxes.
Bro's and Sister's, specifically Ms. W & people of her ilk, please wake up and
smell the postum!Where did LDS Liberal ever mention in his post
about following Harry Reid and not the Prophet? Time to turn off
the Temple of Doom Network (Fox News) and crack open a book, blog, or newspaper
that is unbiased about what is taking place in our country right now.
@ LDS LiberalUnder what authority do you condemn? You seem to think
a lot about yourself and your political preference. Please remember that you do
not speak for the church.@ Ernest T. BassNice rant, but
hardly true.@ MAFUPlease, if you think Fox News is not
worthy, who do you suggest? I would assure you that most books, blogs, and
newspapers are bias. (Like it or not)-------Harry Reid has
openly criticized church leaders. Hardly something a faithful latter day saint
should be doing. His decisions are his decisions, but when he's in the open
spotlight and professes one thing while supporting another, then I get to
question his motives. I can't judge him as a person, but I can judge him as a
leader.Nevada needs to do themselves a favor and vote him out. He is
an Obama drone and a sure vote for his agenda.
@dalep2uThanks, I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. My
original post was an assertion of my brotherhood with Harry Reid because we are
faithful Church members. Doesn't mean I would vote for him. My post was in
reaction to posts by apparently fellow Church members who are so judgmental
regarding Reid's sincerity as a member. See the very first post on this thread.
"worf:" "how is it the LDS Church can stay out of debt but not the country?"
good statement to ponder. The LDS church sets a great example of sound fiscal
policies that the nation would do well to follow.
@LDS Lib: you continue to crack me up. You still don't know the difference
between force and free will. So now it's greed, pride and
selfishness to want to provide for your own family. Okay, we understand. Have
you ever read the 10th commandment? Maybe you should. Your understanding of the
gospel principles is sorely lacking. Christ never forces anyone to
do good --- you and Obama/Pelosi/Reid do. What side are you really on?@Democrat: can you tell us how any of Benson's talks are false, not coming to
pass, out of line with the scriptures and gospel? Just curious where he got it
wrong. You might want to read Pres. McKay's talks in both
conferences in 1966. He and Benson pretty much were on the same page. @ETBass: you continue to show your lack of knowledge about conservatives.@MAFU: okay, we get it --- you don't like Fox News. Since they are so
bad and so wrong, please, oh please, tell us from what fount you gain your
wisdom and knowledge.MSNBC?NYT?MediaMatters?Moveon.org?NPR?BostonGlobe?Time/Newsweek?Soros?Enlighten all of us on where we can find your truth.
Harry Reid is a wonderful asset to the LDS Church, notwithstanding the fact that
the ultra-conservative membership in the Intermountain West does not understand
this point. It is refreshing for me to be able to point out to critics that not
all LDS members are conservative Republicans by using Reid as an example. Go
"A Guy With A Brain" at 1:18 p.m over rates himself.One thing for
sure, this article is the "hot button" article for the day.
There are many reasons my LDS Church is not in debt like the government of the
United States of America.One major reason is the USA has to pay
living wages to about 4 million employees. There are about 2 million civilian
workers and about 2 million in the military. The Church has a large army of non
wage workers.The above is just ONE major factor. Government and
Church is another apples and oranges situation.
To my fellow Latter-day Saints: "...but I want to say to you, my
brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful
valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint
from the face of an enemy against the people of God. Then is the time to look
out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and MANY will
fall."For I say unto you there is a test...coming." - Heber C. Kimball,
May 1868And what will this test involve?It is clear that
at least some of it will be over whether we will follow principles of freedom or
principles of what amounts to slavery; abdicating our responsibility to make
choices and to be held accountable for them. One political party in America
today (Democrats) clearly wants a decrease of personal responsibility and an
increase in reliance on government. The other party in America today
(Republicans) clearly wants an increase in personal responsibility and a
decrease in reliance on government.The acceptance of homosexuality
as a moral lifestyle (or not) will also play a large factor.Politics
Ok... lets set the record straight. The church in 2008 released the following
statement.""There is sort of a division along Mormon/non-Mormon,
Republican/Democratic lines," says Elder Marlin Jensen, a member of the First
Quorum of the Seventy. "We regret that more than anything -- that there would
become a church party and a non-church party. That would be the last thing that
we would want to have happen."So argue your points all you will
those who would believe the church has any alignment politically, but you are
arguing against statements the church has made directly. As to the
claims that Benson's claims are all true... they are not. He claimed that no
country with even partial socialist policies could be successful financially.
In fact as viewed by GNP per capita, 9 countries have higher GNP per capita
ratings than the US. Among those are Norway, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland,
Switzerland - some of the most progressive countries when it comes to social
policy. When looking at accumulated GNP growth, most EU countries have hire
rates of increase than the US. Social policies has not been proven to equate
to poor economic performance.
To "LDS Liberal | 3:41 p.m." I agree with you. The liberals have become very
greedy. They are constantly seeking out more riches and power over those around
him.I think that there are many LDS members out there that see the
greed displayed by liberals that they would gladly vote out those that are
seeking power and wealth.To "UtahBlueDevil | 7:46 p.m."
actually President Benson was right. Prior to the Recession, the US had a track
record of growing its GDP faster than any of those countries. Also, if you look
at them now, nearly all of the countries that you list have higher public debts
than the US. Ireland is on the verge of collapse, and it is a matter of time
before the others collapse also because their debt keeps mounting.
I've seen several months of bitter accusations, misinformation on both sides and
and a level of polarization not seen since the days Shiz and Coriantumur ... and
we know how that turned out! The Adversary plays the shell game superlatively.
As long as each side believes they are right, it is a false battle between good
and evil. Satan doesn't care which side you're on because he wins in the end
either way. Both are contradictory to the commandments of the LordIn six days we'll know if people sincerely want a new direction or if they
just like complaining. The proof is not in the end result, but in the level of
participation. Vote and you can run your dialogue (justifiably) to your heart's
content. Don't and your comments ring hollow
I would not put it past the republicans to throw mormons under the bus if it
gave them an political advantage. And of course, right now, The dems are driving
that bus... life's rough, but then, mormons get this. It has been since our
@ Ex-Pat of Zion (and all who are against polarization)When given
the opportunity to either support good or evil, you're saying we shouldn't
polarize to the good? I believe that following liberalism is following evil.
(whether Republican or Democrat) Liberalism goes against the gospel in so many
ways and you've got to be fairly blinded not to see that. As we get closer to
the Second Coming, we will see the people get worse and worse. Why is it
becoming more popular to be liberal; more politically correct supported by
Hollywood; supported by abortion rights groups; supported by homosexuality;
supported by the lazy, entitlement, greedy, want something for nothing citizens?
Just because they have an appearance of good does not mean they are. They are
power hungry people.Any member of the church should know this to be
wrong. It's time for good to unite and reject evil. It's time to vote for those
who will uphold the constitution. Sadly the voice of the people is going to
continue to get more corrupt as prophesied. I hope you're on the right side of
@UtahBlueDevil: you know what they say about statistics, right? And the word is
higher, not hire. You also might want to look at how many EU countries are
starting to get rid of government employees and trying to reduce the size of the
welfare state.You do know what's going on in France, right? Wanna go
clean up the trash?I notice that you didn't source your claim of
what Benson said. And I also notice that you completely ignored what he said
regarding the US embracing Socialism from within--- Krushev said the same thing
to him. I also notice you didn't take on Pres. McKay's talks from
both Gen Conf from 1966 regarding the dangers of Socialism.For LDS
members who wish to claim that the policies of the Democrat Party are in line
with gospel principles, please lay out your case. I've never seen anyone do it
before.@The Caravan Moves on: one point of clarification in your
post (which is a great one) the Republican party is no different that the
Democrat party in many, many ways. Bush and crowd expanded government
intervention in numerous ways. Conservatives want limited
LDS Liberal: Rather than weep with Mormon, open your eyes to the changes in
your party over the past 50 years and see where “greed, pride and
selfishness” are actually found.Rush Limbaugh is today ranked
as the 10th highest charitable giver among celebrities. Of course he does not
toot his own horn about this fact. One would have to do some research to learn
the truth.Interestingly, Barack Obama’s charitable giving
record is downright pathetic compared to, say, yours, LDS Lib, if you are active
LDS. The Chicago Tribune reported way back in Spring of ’07:
“The national average for charitable giving has long hovered
at 2.2 percent of household income... Obama tax returns dating to 1997 show he
fell WELL BELOW that benchmark until 2005, the year he arrived in
Washington.”* (Giving far less than 1% in 2 years shown; in 3 of the
years, around 1%; and only after their income skyrocketed, 4.7% and 6.1%)
Conversely, that despot George W. Bush has given 8.17% to 10.2% since 2001.Do you not know that in the Last Days “even the very elect”
will be deceived?
'“The national average for charitable giving has long hovered at 2.2
percent of household income... Obama tax returns dating to 1997 show he fell
WELL BELOW that benchmark...' - Lasvegaspam | 10:46 a.m. Oct. 28, 2010 So, giving is now required? Isn't this like the 'strongly
encouraged' 10%? I would have no issue with this, if there wasn't an audit at
the end of the year about your 'giving.' No, I think trying to work
as president would be enough. Thank you very much. Please, cite the
'donations' of Sarah Palin this last year, after she 'earned' $12 million
dollars in 9 months. *'Sarah Palin Has Earned an Estimated $12
Million Since July' - By MATTHEW MOSK - ABC News - 04/13/10 Lets look at the 'generosity' of Republicans who HAVEN'T quit their job, so
far.... * 'Senate Republicans again kill bill for jobless aid'
- By Stephen Ohlemacher - AP - Published by DSNews - 06/30/10Line:'Without an extension, 1.7 million of the 7 million people who have
been without a job for at least six months will have lost their unemployment
benefits by the end of this week, according to the Labor Department.'
Pagan:What is trying to be demonstrated is that the President has
never been a giving person much as most Democrats aren't.It is
proven that Republican Conservatives are more apt to give to charitable
organizations than any other. This is where many liberals fall short. Do as I
say not as I do.It is not required by any means to be charitable or
to aid the poor and needy. By the way MAN defines poor as those living in
poverty and needy basically the same. I believe the Lord defines the poor as
those poor in spirit and needy those who can't support themselves. If more
people were willing to give whatever they could above the so called requirement
we would have no poor, no needy and less poor in spirit. Since, you ask about
Sarah Palin before you start casting stones, ask how much did I give to assist
them. Did I give to help or to prosper from man? I gave but that doesn't mean
it was sufficient but then again I believe that most can give more than they do.
re - The Caravan Moves On | 7:15 p.myou said:"The other party in
America today (Republicans) clearly wants an increase in personal responsibility
and a decrease in reliance on government."and you also said:"The
acceptance of homosexuality as a moral lifestyle (or not) will also play a large
factor."so - in other words, you want no government interference...
unless you disagree with what the person does, and then you want government
interference...why do you think you can have it both ways? either
the government stays out of people's lives (so it is up to the individual if
they want a same sex marriage or an abortion), or the government intrudes into
everyone's lives as they see fit.it seems to me the standard
position of the republican party (and teabaggers) is "leave us alone, unless we
think it's wrong in which case make everyone obey us".that's the
problem with religion and republicans. you want to tell everyone what to do
while saying "don't tell us what to do".and no, I'm not gay - but
I'm not a hypocrite either...
Dear Charlie: it's clear that you don't understand the purpose of government.
Caravan said a RELIANCE on government which is to be interpreted taxing one
person to give that to another for the purpose of gaining votes and power. Societies enact laws in all phases of life that reflect what they want
for their communities. Homosexuality has been shunned by societies from the
beginning of this earth. It's a behavior that is detrimental to society just
like murder, adultery, stealing, cheating and lying. Coveting too which is the
way of the Progressive these days. Abortion is the killing of an
innocent life -- it has nothing to do with the privacy of a woman. If you don't like the laws of a city, state or nation, you are free to move to
a place more to your liking. Real Americans have rejected and are
now again rejecting your choice of policies. Obama is going down in flames.Your choice of calling the Tea Partiers a homosexual pejorative shows
how classless you really are.I'm stunned that the DNews censors let
you through with your post like that.You are a hypocrite -- the
Most people think we "Mormons" vote always for Mormons. Not true. Mormons like
Harry Reid are going in the wrong direction with his actions in Congress.
Therefore, I will vote for his opponent. On the other hand, I believe Romney
could really help this country, so that is why I would vote for him.
As an ex-Mormon and grad of BYU, I definitely prefer Harry Reid over Glenn Beck.
// Jean Clelland-Morin
If the comments on this blog are any indication, Democrats are not welcome in
LDS congregations or in the LDS community generally.