Comments about ‘Women top men in earning Ph.D.s as college dynamics change in U.S.’

If the numbers for men and women were reversed (i.e., men had been earning more BS and MS degrees for twenty years, and finally starting earning more PhDs as well), we all know there would be hollering.

In fact, for twenty years we've heard from feminists that the fact that more women were earning BS and MS degrees wasn't too important, because, after all, more men were earning PhDs.

Now that rationale is gone.

So can we finally start talking as a society, and as educational institutions, about WHY and HOW males are being increasingly marginalized in education? Of course, these margins are still somewhat narrow and might not yet indicate what might be called a crisis; but the trend continues.

If you have believed in the past that a system that favors males is problematic, then you must also believe that a system favoring females is a problem, too. Unless you're sexist against males.

Which may well be precisely the case, on balance, in our educational system.

Way to go, ladies! Education is attractive and so respectable!

Joe,

Your points are strong. The way we have gone about education since the 70s have gradually eroded boys morale, desire and education levels to the point we may not be able to compete internationally. The gains we have made with girls can't be abandoned either, but something has to be done to bring the boys back into the learning process.

Separating kids by gender for some instruction is just one way of accomplishing this. We already do this at some schools for Girls Only Science programs. However, we ignore doing this for the boys. If we want to improve understanding and learning outcomes for all our students we need to be giving them WHAT THEY NEED. We can't ignore the boys. We can't ignore the girls. We must find ways to reach them ALL.

I wonder how many of these female PhD's are from countries, like Iran, that oppress woman, where earning a degree is more promising than marriage. Sorry to offend the women's movement, but you haven't improved the cause of women, men, or children anywhere.

peter

we're not going back to your roles for women as exclusively wives and mothers. It's not going to happen regardless of what you think.

The women's movement hasn't improved the cause of women, men or children anywhere? Really? What century are you from? Sounds like you're a member of the Utah Taliban. Pretty scary comments.
The claim that are current education system erodes boys' morale, desire and education levels is a problematic statement also. What exactly is different from a former system that did not erode boys' morale? I'm currently a grad student, and no point was a treated in a way that was unfair or put at a disadvantage relative to female students.
I definitely say congrats to women like Marjan, I and am grateful to all the talented female grad students have had the opportunity to learn with.

@dinosaur jr. 9:59

"The claim that [our] current education system erodes boys' morale, desire and education levels is a problematic statement also. What exactly is different from a former system that did not erode boys' morale?"

If you do not believe the boys' educational needs are not being met, please explain the increasing discrepancy between boys' and girls' graduation rates and college degrees. When women got less education, it seemed they were focusing on raising children (and a HUGE thank you to my own mother, my wife, and all mothers who do so! What would we be with you?!?)

But for boys, what indeed is the underlying cause? What AREN'T we seeing?

You ask the right question at the end, "What exactly is different from a former system that did not erode boys' morale?" Unfortunately you see your question as an argument that there is nothing wrong. In fact, we need to address that question head on and find the answer. It may have to do with subtle shifts in education, or it may be other things entirely. We need to know, and we need to address the problem.

It is good that more women are earning higher educational degrees. If men are earning fewer degrees than before, then this is a problem. I think part of the problem for men is that they are struggling to find their identity. Since the "equal rights" legislation of the 60's, women have been able and capable to assume most all of the traditional masculine roles. If women can do all that they traditionally could do and also do all that man traditionally has done, then what is left for a man to do? I think the problem men face is to find a meaningful role in our modern society. Men are beginning to drop out, becoming perpetual adolescents, not feeling as capable as a woman in any area. She is becoming more educated, capable of earning as much if not more and is able to have babies to boot. Find a man who can match that. Finding an appropriate new identity for men is the solution our modern society will need to solve.

Much of the problem lies in elementary education.

Think about it.

The students are expected to sit there and be quiet, do a lot of testing and most of their teachers are females.

Boys, who typically, are more apt to be more inclined to move about and learn in different modalities, are often labeled as trouble makers, sent to special ed or put on Ritalin or other drugs to combat ADD and ADHD.

The vast majority of single parent families the mother has custody. Therefore, many boys in school have a dearth of positive male models. They might not ever see a male teacher in elementary school. By this time boys are struggling in school.

Gender separation has some credibility with it. And more males need to be recruited into education, especially elementary education.

Also teaching in elementary needs to be styled more on more movement rather than just having students sitting quietly in ordered rows preparing for mindless bubble tests.

I'm glad females are doing better in school and getting more educated. But what is happening with our male population has to be concerning and needs to be addressed.

In high school the majority of guys think about gIrls, sports etc. more then getting an education. In college they end up playing catch up.

i received my MS in mech eng. from stanford. i was on a special program for women to 'encourage" them to pursue advanced engineering degrees. i'm grateful for the education but i think that programs like this should be eliminated.
i worked with men who also received the same degree. only they got no "break". so it cheapened mine. we should all have to work equally hard. i could have and should have done it like the men.
it has wrongfully been made easier for women. i know. i'm one of them.

@ Joe Moe. I'm not saying that there is nothing wrong regarding males' education. But I don't buy the claim that our education system has changed in any real way (from a former system) that has led to marginalizing or eroding the morale of males. Rather, I think we've just tried to stop marginalizing females, have boasted their morale and presented them similar opportunities that we've always given to males.
Maybe it should be asked why the trends in Utah in regards to higher education are so different from the national numbers.

@ dinosaur

I think Utah's ratios can be best explained by the predominant culture. Many women leave education after getting married during college. They start their families and support their husbands. While the trend is changing (where Utah will more or more reflect the national trend), women in Utah still marry earlier than their national counterparts. By marrying and starting families many times getting degrees, and advanced degrees is postponed.

I would elementary education has changed substantially. Recess has been shortened. More emphasis has been placed on class management, teaching to the test etc. The approach used in schools in general, but in elementary education in particular, is not conducive to the way boys typically learn. Boys that are boisterous are often labeled with ADD, ADHD or BD, and often placed on medication. Because of the lower teacher pay, less and less males are going into education than in generations past and very few are going into elementary education. Go visit your local elementary school, you would be hard pressed to find a male. There might, key word being MIGHT, be two or three. Boys (and girls too) need more positive male models at this critical age.