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Official statement from Mormon church in response to petition from gay rights group

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  • awsomeron1 Oahu, HI
    Oct. 16, 2010 7:24 p.m.

    It is like a single princess, rejecting to many frogs and winding up rutting with a Non Member. Complainingb that there aren't any good men.

    The idea is to love and accept people as they are.

    What you think needs fixed may not be always broken.

    The Church has Standards and Rules, people will accept them or not. That is up to them.

    Sometimes the price of a Relationship is very, very high.

    Would you rather your daughter/son merry a black man/women that can go to the Temple, or a white person who can't go, and want to take them away from all this.

    When you come up with that answer, (please don't put it on Prayer, Change and Hope. Because you have little hope and chump change). you will know a lot about yourself and your love of people with differences. With whom you may share the Gospel.

    The spokeman was right on the Money. Love One Another. First, Last and Always.

    Some Hetrosexual Singles never Merry any number of reasons. Sex for them is Wrong also. Some keep the Standards some do Not. A few return unopened.

  • awsomeron1 Oahu, HI
    Oct. 16, 2010 7:10 p.m.

    Great Statement, Right On The Money. I 100% agree and support the Churches stand on this issue.

    The action of some members towards people who are somehow different then them is wrong.

    We are brought togeather by that which we have in Common "the Gospel" not by our differences although we sometimes know them and ackknowledge them.

    The Church welcomes all people or I would Not be a member.

    That said not every member follows all that the Church Says.

    Sometimes that makes it hard to fellowship and stand in circle with some members. Sometimes I will withdraw, when that happens. Go to the Temple some other time other then Ward Temple Night.

    Sometimes I will not raise my hand to sustain, I won't object either and will support the person in action once called and sustaiined.

    Any behavior other then that is a devider and division is not the work of God.

    United we stand, devided we fall, inactive we rot.





  • 38cowboy Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 15, 2010 10:04 a.m.

    try getting married in the LDS church with a license from the State of Utah. NOT going to happen.

    Gays do not want to get married in the LDS church they just want to get a license from the state and get married where they are allowed to.

    Separate Church and State

    I will back the LDS church and any other church that doesnt want to marry gay couples 110% they have the right to marry who the want in their church. But they dont have the right to tell gay people they cant get married at city hall or in a church that will marry them.

  • Bill in Nebraska Omaha, NE
    Oct. 14, 2010 6:25 p.m.

    Pagan:

    Your same theme after a while does get old. The LDS Church stopped the practice of Pologamy but if it was warranted would start again if necessary. The practice was revoked not the doctrine.

    Interracial marriage was discouraged not forbidden.

    Blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood because the Lord had not given clear revelation as to if they could hold that priesthood. Today they all do.

    If you read the Bible you will know that Jehovah (Jesus Christ) called homosexuality an abomination before him. In fact any sexual sin other than marriage between man and woman is wrong. All sexual sins are grievous before the Lord. Why does it matter so much to you how the LDS Church stands on this issue when it is plain you have a grudge and hatred against anything and anyone that is LDS.

    I don't hate nor do I begrudge any one who is gay. I stand by the teachings of the Church and I also stand by the law of our Heavenly Father and his son, Jesus Christ. However, I will not condone the gay lifestyle. It is wrong. It is a choice not genetic at all.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 14, 2010 10:04 a.m.

    'The LDS have taken the word of G-d for there position in the matter, and they can not go wrong there by any sense of the word. Amen!' - Y'shua friend. | 7:28 p.m. Oct. 13, 2010


    This was also the case for...

    Support for polygamy, which changed in 1890.
    Against Intracial marriage, which changed in 1967.
    Against Blacks holding the priesthood, which changed in 1978.

  • Y'shua friend. Hurricane, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 7:28 p.m.

    "The best-articulated statement from the church on this matter that I have seen. The leaders are clearly trying hard to listen and respond respectfully while clarifying church doctrine and holding to revealed doctrine. A big thanks for that. If everyone communicated this way, our society would be much better for it."

    This is the general doctrinal view of the Christian Church as a whole, and it is every bit scripturally supported. The LDS have taken the word of G-d for there position in the matter, and they can not go wrong there by any sense of the word. Amen!

  • charlie91342 Sylmar, CA
    Oct. 13, 2010 5:25 p.m.

    re - Zion's Youth | 12:32 p.m

    "1 Corinthians 10:13... To a bible believing religious mind, this is evidence that one is not born to homosexuality and does in fact have a choice. It is not impossible to remain chaste or to deny the natural man. The thousands of chaste youths of this church are proof of it."


    so what does that have to do with the other 12,400,000 other gays and lesbians in the US who aren't LDS? How would you feel if the Vaitcan put out regular press releases stating your religion is a hoax and is immoral? because that is what you are doing. You are demeaning and putting down over 12 milion US citizens every time you come out with your "we are against same sex marriage" and "homosexuality is a sin" speeches.

    how would you feel if a large organization regularly stated your religion was an abomination? wouldn't you ask them to stop?

    well, that's all the LGBT community is doing - they are asking you to stop spouting hateful speech.

    so why can't you do that? (and no, I'm not gay.)

  • Gracious George West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 13, 2010 3:59 p.m.

    Re: Grundle, Doctor, Etc.

    With all due respect, I never meant to imply the LDS Church called the shots.

    But you said yourselves the influence is a big factor here. Over 80% of Utah lawmakers, including Gov. Herbert, are LDS.

    Attempting to minimize the Church's influence in Utah politics is simply untrue and disingenuous.

    It is true that the Church does not make laws and has a political neutrality general policy, but no one can deny the Church's heavy political and financial involvement in Proposition 8 in California.

    Were a similar need to arise in Utah, no one can doubt the Church would be involved in that.

    No one can dispute the Church's significant influence in the anti-discrimination ban in SLC regarding housing, employment, and health care.

    No one can dispute the Church can and will have signifcant influence in an eventual statewide anti-discrimination ban towards LGBT's regarding in an upcoming Utah legislative session.

    The Church needs to do better educating its members to properly fellowship the LGBT community. If suicides/bullying weren't happening, this would not be an issue.

    Increasing the reach of the LDS 12-step program is an excellent start.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 1:14 p.m.

    Doc, that was a good response you posted as it did clarify your stance. I agree with you to a certain extent.

    If the church had come out and drafted up a law and passed it and then moved on to enforce it, I would see a problem. But the church didn't make any law.

    Politicians with all different religious affiliations drew up the laws. The church merely supports the potential laws that they agree with just as other groups (LGBT included) do. The church doesn't enforce any law anywhere. They abide by the law, not make it.

    The government is in the process right now of defining marriage. The church has already made their decision that they believe marriage is between a man and a woman so they support that side. Others believe otherwise and therefore support their side.

    Freedom is afforded to all. The church has never infringed on anyone's rights.

  • ADN Weiser, ID
    Oct. 13, 2010 12:33 p.m.

    Beautifully said. That is a firm, clear, short and true statement. We could all learn a lot from how the church communicates. I support thier position 100%.

  • Zion's Youth dunkirk, MD
    Oct. 13, 2010 12:32 p.m.

    "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man but God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above what yet are able but will with a temptation also make a way to escape that ye may be able to bear it." 1 Corinthians 10:13

    To a bible believing religious mind, this is evidence that one is not born to homosexuality and does in fact have a choice. It is not impossible to remain chaste or to deny the natural man. The thousands of chaste youths of this church are proof of it.
    Truth is always truth. It is the same yesterday, today, and forever. If a principle is malleable, it is not truth. My testimony is that the church will not digress from that which has been declared truth perviously.
    As a youth of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I claim my right to believe in and fight for the respect of worthy and eternal marriage.

    A child of God is not defined by sexual attraction or bodily desire. They are defined by the divine potential they choose to fulfill.

  • my slc Newport Beach, CA
    Oct. 13, 2010 12:12 p.m.

    Bethanymom:

    You are arguing two separate cases. The first is a religious ceremony performed by a private organization. How many Catholics have you seen the LDS Church forced to marry in the temple? Vice versa, how many LDS have you seen force the Catholic Church to marry them in the cathedral? Have there been gay marriages performed in the Massachusetts Temple? No!

    The matters of refusing services by a business are a separate matter. Replace the word “lesbian” or “gay” to “Hispanic”, “woman”, “native American” etc. You would be violating the law.

    In other words, say I am a small businessman in downtown SLC. You come in and want to purchase something I sell. I notice your CTR ring and refuse to sell to you because you are LDS. Is that discrimination?

  • Bethanymom Murray, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 10:43 a.m.

    KJB1: You stated: "The Church has the right to refuse to marry anybody they like." However that statement will not be correct IF "gay marriage" is legalized. We have already seen people being sued, and charged for refusing to allow a "gay marriage".

    For example, A Christian photographer in New Mexico was found guilty last week of breaking state law for refusing to take pictures of a lesbian ceremony. Sources: The Associated Press, Alliance Defense Fund, American Family News Network Tuesday, April 15, 2008
    OR
    Group Loses Tax Break Over Gay Union Issue
    By JILL P. CAPUZZO Published: September 18, 2007
    OR
    A psychologist in Mississippi who refused to counsel a lesbian couple lost her case, and legal experts believe that a doctor who refused to provide IVF services to a lesbian woman is about to lose his pending case before the California Supreme Court.
    by Barbara Bradley Hagerty (reported on NPR)

    There were even calls during the lead up to Prop 8 for the LDS Church to lose their tax-exempt status. So please don't insult my intelligence by saying that "gay marriage" will have no effect on MY life except to offend me.

  • Tom Smith Sandy, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 10:20 a.m.

    As far as a reference to "Our History" is concerned, the leadership has buried and accurate and complete accounting of the church's history so soundly that there are very few people alive that know what that history really is. In my stake instead of teaching Church History in seminary it is replace by a second offering in Book of Mormon. Secondly, there is a difference between the doctrines of God and the Doctrine of Man. God is the same yesterday, today and forever... if the Doctrine is correct in God's Word, why all the waffling? Did Nephi or Abinidi go back and re-write their speeches? The present Quorum of the Twelve are not the U.S. Congress... tell it right, say it correctly, and let it stand--petition or no petition. No Apostle needs to apologize if it is God's doctrine.

  • timpClimber Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 10:12 a.m.

    When I was first married I had a friend who had same sex attraction feelings. When he left his wife and two young sons the LDS Ward stepped in and helped mentor and raise them. Years later we met again as we both taught at the same school. We became friends again. We would meet for lunch and he would ask me about his boys and how they were doing. His sadness never left him. Because of him I made sure that no one was ever harassed in my classroom for any reason. Love the person but not the sin is the best answer, and that's what the Church's statement is all about.

  • Doctor Tucson, AZ
    Oct. 13, 2010 10:04 a.m.

    As I said this is a nuanced subject. My comment on passing laws based on your belief is very nuanced. Obviously someone deeply immeshed in the LDS church and culture is going to have core values reflected in the way they vote. But any political action, enforcing WoW, etc, that infringes on others rights is wrong. Purely moral issues should not be voted on. If an action is harmful, cigarettes/alcohol/prostitution, the government will regulate it based on the harm. As soon as you start shout "God says its bad" you lost credibility in the political arena. No one can state why SSM is harmful to society. Specifics please.

  • kreese Taft, CA
    Oct. 13, 2010 9:05 a.m.

    HCW:

    You won't have to wait 50 years to look back. It'll be a lot sooner than that.

  • Grundle West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 8:54 a.m.

    re:Gracious George | 5:56 p.m. Oct. 12, 2010

    You post shows that you are not aware of the efforts of the LDS church.

    "Creating a statewide ban in Utah of discrimination against LGBTs in housing, health care, etc."

    The LDS church is NOT the governing body in Utah. They have supported descrimination bans that have been inacted.

    Increasing the reach of the LDS 12-step Addiction Recovery program through LDS Family Services through working with government and private agencies..."

    The church currently does this at great expense to the church

    "Educating members, youth, and children regarding proper treatment of and compassion for others who struggle with this and their families by discussing it in religious meetings--along with punishing members who violate these policies through excommunication and disfellowship."

    They currently do this...Every Sunday...For three hours. The punishment part is a little extreme but we are constantly encouraged to treat others as Christ would treat them. "If the Saviour stood beside me..."

    "Promoting harsher penalties in the justice system for anti-gay crimes."
    Amoung the body of the church opinions vary greatly. I personally do not believe in hate-crime enhanced penalties.

  • In Arizona Mesa, AZ
    Oct. 13, 2010 8:48 a.m.

    This should be read in every Sacrament Meeting and each Priesthood Q, R.S., Youth should have a lesson on this!

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 8:44 a.m.

    This is something that should be the subject of a general conference talk, especially given the problem many in the church have of being bigoted towards gays and lesbians.

    This is the statement that reflects my beliefs and am glad it was so well stated. I do expect the bigots who dont believe in freedom of religion to try and pick it apart because they have an agenda and dont really care about justice and freedom, but rather forcing everyone to agree with them, exalt them, etc.

    Very well stated, and thank you for issuing the statement.

  • Gary Federal Way, WA
    Oct. 13, 2010 8:31 a.m.

    The report was a good one and well said. I was impressed and satisfied. It gave more insight to what the church policy really is and removes any doubts as a whole towards the gay population. Bottom line is the church asks all people to stop bullying the gay population and treat them with respect. People do respond favorably when treated with respect than people who don't and I believe that's a fact. And we will be judged by how we treat our neighbors and whether we have "charity" or not in our hearts will be one of them. Hate-mongers will have no place in heaven according to the meaning of charity. It's said, one must have charity to make it to highest heaven. Without it, you lose and will go to the other heavens, but not the highest one.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 13, 2010 8:19 a.m.

    Thank you Michael Ottersen. Your statement perfectly reflects the religion I love.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Oct. 13, 2010 8:17 a.m.

    I agree with the statement but it doesn't adress the fact that the church has excercized it's right to oppose gay marriage and the gay community has the right to be upset about it and oppose the church in return. The christian community isn't going to budge on gay marriage and there are just consequences sometimes for that.

    BUT, there is a very fine line here concerning constitutional rights, equality and free will. Much more needs to be done (not said) to deal with that divide. This is not a theocracy for a reason and you can't have it both ways.



  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 7:57 a.m.

    As with abortion, homosexual marriage and "rights" has to be done through judicial fiat. There is no other way to pass the agenda.

    Using teen suicide as a battering ram is disengenuous at best. Teens commit suicide all the time, for many reasons, homosexuality is just one small reason. There are many others ranging from being fat, to music, to religion in general, to being bullied, to having the wrong hair color, to drugs/alcohol abuse, sexual abuse, need I go on.

    I personally don't know any homosexual teen that has committed suicide. I have however known several that have done it because of music, drugs, getting their cell phone taken away, being bullied at school. All are a tragedy.

  • Dixie Dan Saint George, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 7:14 a.m.

    What do you say to parents who have fasted and prayed for the children not to be gay? It is a cruel hoax that prayer will cure homosexuality. If it did, there would be world wide acceptance of this principal.

  • kitchy Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 13, 2010 3:20 a.m.

    Sexual immorality is wrong, whether homeosexual or heterosexual. Love the person but not the sin. No one was comparing SSA to drug use. It is an analogy. Get a life. My gosh, it seems that no matter how well a statement is drafted and this one was very well done, it is taken out of context and used for personal purposes. Doing wrong and accepting wrong doing does not promote rational thought it seems. This statement is the best and if taken out of context there is no way to appease someone who chooses to do wrong, whether homo or hetero, I guess.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Oct. 13, 2010 1:36 a.m.

    I have to say that this is a good example of response.

    This is practicing what you preach. Others say "it is all talk". Well, that may be so, and so may the Salt Lake City non-discrimination laws. But so are cruel remarks from bullies.

    True, some bullies go to the level of physical attacks, but many do verbal attacks.

    What President Packer said was talk as well. Clearly people accept that talk has power. People who claim of President Packer "your actions speak louader than words', actually attack him for words he spoke, and not actions he did.

    President Packer performed the first baptism of a Japanese person in Japan after World War II. President Packer ordained the first man of African descent as a high priest after the 1978 revelation, and possibly in this dispensation. President Packer got the barefoot boy who had been shooed away when he first wandered into the chapel to come join him on the stand.

    My original point though is when confronted with a petition it is tempting to complain about antagonists or something. Instead Brother Otterson issued a calm, reasoned, principaled but caring response.

  • savvy Provo, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2010 11:50 p.m.

    Wow, there are so many angry comments... I thought this was a thoughtful and fair statement by the LDS Church.

    I honestly don't understand why the HRC has decided to target the LDS Church in this way--the Church is simply doing what all churches have the right to do in this country: persuade men to do good. Some LGTB groups act as if the LDS Church is meddling directly with the government and its laws, but in reality the Church is simply utilizing its right to persuade men to do good, knowing full well that citizens will ultimately use their own free will to make decisions regarding the law. That's how separation of church and state is supposed to work. Unfortunately, many people these days seem to think separation of church and state means that churches and their leaders are not allowed to have a voice in the public arena at all... How misguided and sad.

    I don't know what the HRC is trying to accomplish with this petition. The Church will not change its stance because the Church doesn't answer to random groups of people... It answers to God.

  • Laura Ann Layton, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 11:33 p.m.

    I had a next door neighbor who was gay. He had left the LDS religion. He was a nice guy. We were sad to see him go. No once did my husband or I, say nasty things about him. We hoped that he would come back to the church, but we never spoke of it to him. We respected his agency in this matter. It is wrong to imply that all Mormons are cruel and hateful to homosexuals. I greatly resent it. Did I disapprove of his behavior? Probably, but as I never knew about what was going on in his personal life, it didn't matter. Someone on this board mentioned the fact that churches need to change as society changes. I cannot support this statement. Either something is true in a religion or it is not. You can edit the Bible to make it say what you want it to say, but that doesn't really change the original. Yes, I believe in modern revelation, but I know that somethings will never change. Actions are what we are judged on. The real problem is bullying. Bullying in any matter is unacceptable and I've always made this clear.

  • jjen Farmington, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 11:26 p.m.

    RE: Bummy

    I know what part of the statement you're referring too but it did not say 'thoughts' or 'lustful sins'... it said 'feelings'. It's not 'PR talk' it seems like appropriate talk to me. When Christ was to pay for our sins, he asked that the cup pass. He had 'feelings' that made him not want to continue. Was this a sin? No. In this moment he couldn't control how he felt but he could control how he thought and acted, and so the atonement was fulfilled. This is just my opinion but I feel like it was well said, and 'feelings' was the appropriate word to use.

  • InUtahButNotOfUtah South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 11:23 p.m.

    @Robert from St. George. I agree with you completely.

  • Utah Girl Vernal, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 11:14 p.m.

    To KJB1 at 6:57pm, the Church was targeted in many places, in and out of California, before and after the Proposition 8 issue, including the burning of a Book of Mormon on the steps of a Colorado meetinghouse.

    On Nov. 9, 2008, the DN reported: "The Sacramento (Calif.) Bee reports that three days after voters approved a proposition to ban same-sex marriage in California, vandals targeted a Mormon church in Orangevale.
    Vandals spray-painted the words "No on Prop 8" at the church's property on Hazel Avenue sometime between late Thursday and early Friday."

    And on November 3, 2009, the DN reported: "Gay-rights activist Joe Solmonese of the Human Rights Campaign was asked on the TV show "Dr. Phil" by a Mormon audience member why the LDS Church was being targeted.
    Said Solmonese: "We are going to go after your church every day for the next two years unless and until Prop. 8 is overturned."

    In a paper called "Mormons in the Crosshairs" it listed...examples where members of the LDS Church were "particularly and systematically targeted."

    Small sampling of the occurrences.

    This statement by the Church is very good, and I support it.

  • Robert from St. George St. George, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2010 10:32 p.m.

    Great statement from the Church. The problem is it is just that, a statement. You read the statement and then you read the comments below from the members out in the world and you feel like its a losing battle. There is still the feeling that there is a complete disgust towards gays generally and gay members in specifics. The tone is ugly and as long as that continues to exist the statement will be meaningless and gay members will continue to leave to friendlier shores, which I guess to many is what is wanted anyway. If we do not head the words from the Church to its fullest hurt, divide, and pain will continue to split families and cause sadness where it doesn't belong. To tell people to "get over it" is not that easy when you have to live with it. Judge not........

  • HCW Mesa, AZ
    Oct. 12, 2010 10:12 p.m.

    @KJB1 | 6:57 p.m. Oct. 12, 2010

    Again, feel however you like about gay marriage, but I guarantee you that in fifty years people will look back at this and wonder what the big deal was.
    ---------------------

    I will take you up on that bet but I will guarantee you in fifty years people will look back at this and wonder how they could have been so foolish and deceived that they embraced a practice that eventually destroyed America.

  • Mara Springville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 8:38 p.m.

    "This people draw near to me with their mouth...but have removed their heart far from me."

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Oct. 12, 2010 6:57 p.m.

    marineveteran:

    Meetinghouses were destroyed by protesters? Really? Any evidence of that?

    JPL:

    In what way are religious freedoms under threat? The Church has the right to refuse to marry anybody they like. The only "freedom" that could likely be threatened by gay marriage is the freedom not to be offended. No one is saying that you have to like gay marriage. Feel however you like, and teach your family/loved ones the same. However, using the law to force your beliefs on consenting adults is where the Church has crossed the line. Judge Walker is absolutely correct: we-don't-like-it is not a valid reasons for denying others equal rights. The anti-gay marriage side has had ample time to make their case, and they failed. All they have to offer are scare tactics and hypothetical what-ifs that have been throughly debunked by multiple legal scholars (including one from BYU.)

    Again, feel however you like about gay marriage, but I guarantee you that in fifty years people will look back at this and wonder what the big deal was. It's unfortunate that people like you have so little faith in America and its' goodness.

  • billsview Stockton, CA
    Oct. 12, 2010 6:39 p.m.

    It is evident that the petition was signed by 150,000 individuals that: a) did not read B. K. Packer's address and/or b) lacked the reading comprehension to understand the message contained therein.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Oct. 12, 2010 6:10 p.m.

    Doctor,
    There are many flaws in your reasoning. One major problem is that the limits of marriage are not about "forcing our religion on others". The state recognizing a marriage is an act that forces others to recognize it as well.
    Your claim that others do not care what our religion teaches, and it is only a matter of entering political discourses is provably false. Judge Walker already said "religious teachings that homosexual relationships are sinful or unequal to heterosexual relationships are harmful to gays and lesbians" as a statement of fact in a ruling.
    If Judge Walker's ruling is allowed to stand it could be used to disadvantage believers that marriage should only be between a man and a woman in many ways.
    The becket Fund has argued that some of the religious freedom problems of same-gender marriage emerge as a result of it being imposed by judicial fiat. In the wake of courts enacting such measures by judicial fiat, which threaten the freedoms of churches, they have a direct stake in the law as well as their basic right to intervene in moral matters.

  • Gracious George West Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2010 5:56 p.m.

    Kudos to the LDS Church for speaking out--this is a significant and consequential.

    I stand by what I said about your faith needing to not just say it, but mean it with swift and meaningful action.

    I do not condemn youth for showing love to a leader...I condemn your whole faith for contributing to the problem and doing nothing but just talking about it.

    I feel the following things would begin to convince me, HRC and other groups the LDS Church is serious about this:

    1) Creating a statewide ban in Utah of discrimination against LGBTs in housing, health care, etc.

    2) Increasing the reach of the LDS 12-step Addiction Recovery program through LDS Family Services through working with government and private agencies to help as many as possible with their struggles in an atmosphere of love and safety.

    3) Educating members, youth, and children regarding proper treatment of and compassion for others who struggle with this and their families by discussing it in religious meetings--along with punishing members who violate these policies through excommunication and disfellowship.

    4) Promoting harsher penalties in the justice system for anti-gay crimes.

    This would be a really good start.

  • Jolter Northern, Utah
    Oct. 12, 2010 5:24 p.m.

    Nice try!

    On one hard we have the LDS Church and its members preaching in this article and in life--love, kindness, tolerance, and fair treatment for all people no matter what their lifestyle and on the other hand we have them using words like immoral, abomination, sin, evil, impure, and unnatural....just to name a few, and actively working in the political arena to pass laws based on their belief that gays should be denied equal rights as citizens. This has the appearance of being logically true on one hand, but which in fact seems absurd that it cannot possibly be true on the other. Paradoxes are effective tools for demonstrating that some commonly assumed idea or action does not necessarily deserve our unquestioning belief and confidence.

    Certain religious sects even within Christianity no longer carry the traditional religious view of homosexuality. They believe that Biblical references have been taken out of context and thereby misunderstood. If any religion survives in the future it will have to progress, learn, and grow with society instead of living in the past where knowledge was limited and often wrong.

    No single religion can speak for all the other religions or all people.

  • Dan Maloy Enid, OK
    Oct. 12, 2010 5:24 p.m.

    In reference to the LDS church's official statement:

    it was short, clear, and, most importantly, true.

    Yes, that's right, true.

  • Thriller Saint George, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 5:21 p.m.

    "actively working in the political realm to pass laws based on your belief is not right"

    Doctor, that is what politics is. It consists entirely of people and groups who actively work to pass laws based on their belief.

    The LGBT community tries to pass laws based on their belief. Why is that okay in your mind but it's not okay for the church to pursue their beliefs?

    The church is just one of thousands of groups who actively work to pass laws all across the country based on their beliefs.

    That's what makes America great, here we have the right to pursue our beliefs no matter what they are.

  • He-Man Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 5:05 p.m.

    @Question. Dont completely blame the left. Mike Huckabee has shown hatred toward both Mormons and gays. He is a man of the right. It is on both sides. I get frustrated when many people in Utah think the Republican Party is the word of God. I wont register in either party because of it. Politics and religion dont mix. Dont anyone make the Democrat or Republican your God and always blame the other party for everything. We should show love to all and support our church leaders and not agree with corrupt ideas of political parties and mingle it with scripture like so many people do. Peace!

  • Ethel Lindon, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:48 p.m.

    Very well said statement and one that cannot be argued back. Excellent. Thank you for the clarification. It should be canonized (added to the standard works) behind the Proclamation on the Family Amazing, and it should be put into the ENSIGN. Thank you again.

  • Question Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:42 p.m.

    Is it possible for the church and the Gay/lezbian/tans-gender community to disagree and still get along and go about their lives without the other giving in?

    Does the church demand that the GLBT leaders only say things they agree with and never say anything they can twist into looking like it was offensive?


    I think LDS members and leaders know that the GLBT community won't agree on everything... but they don't go protesting at the GLBT's doorstep insisting they change their stand and agree with the Church's stand on this topic.


    The left is supposed to be uber-tolerant... but they are the ones who can't seem to handle a difference of opinion/position and move on. You MUST agree with them or at least say the words they want you to say... OR ELSE!



    Can't we all just get along?

    President Packer never said it was OK to hate anybody for their sexual orientation. He said the opposite. But it seems many on the left think it's OK to hate somebody for being Mormon... What's up with that?

  • Ethan Yorgason Daegu, Korea
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:42 p.m.

    Thank you for this statement. This is a good example of how, while differing with others, we can look for common ground with civility. All will benefit if both Mormons and the LGBT community share a fundamental desire to eliminate the abuse and condescension that so many LGBT individuals experience on a very personal basis and which has hitherto been so tacitly accepted by much of our society.

  • The Rocker Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:37 p.m.

    @Pagan. Do you ever have anything good to say about the LDS church? Have you been waiting like a sniper all day just to get in the first word? I just want you to know I believe you are a child of God and so are all gay people. The church leaders love you a ton. Please give them a little respect and don't be blind in your own hate. We are taught to love all people. President Packers comments were filled with love if you did actually listen to them. Hate and truth are opposites. Hate cannot exist in truth. We love you Pagan. Nothing is being forced down your throat. Give peace a chance and All You Need is Love dude. Rock on my friend Pagan!

  • bummy New Philadelphia, OH
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:34 p.m.

    All of the P R offered will not change the facts. Jesus Christ taught that we WILL be held accountable for our very thoughts of lustful sins, so stop the P R talk. Teach the TRUTH as He taught it. Thank you.

  • belgie Tualatin, OR
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:27 p.m.

    "but actively working in the political realm to pass laws based on your belief is not right."

    Funny how that only applies to Mormons.

    You do not see the similarities between drug addiction and homosexuality (and other sexual sin), only because you choose to ignore God's laws. When somebody chooses to smoke cigarettes, you can also say that does not affect me or my children. But, society readily accepts laws that discourage tobacco use, and campaigns against tobacco are not only considered acceptable, but noble. Why the hypocrisy?

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:23 p.m.

    The gay community like other minority groups are much too sensitive and easily offended. I'm a short person, and have had that brought to my attention on many occasions. WOW, I did'nt know I'm short. I have a friend born with multiple birth defects and is constantly stared at when in public. I've never seem him offended by that and is a very successful person. Let's just get on with life and quit nursing hurt feelings.

  • AyeAye Captain Aurora, CO
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:15 p.m.

    Good statement. Very respectable and respectful.

  • Montana Mormon Miles City, MT
    Oct. 12, 2010 4:13 p.m.

    I think this is a superbly crafted position statement. It articulates the common ground that we share with all people of good will, regardless of our differences. It also declares clearly and unequivocally our doctrines and beliefs, in spite of our differences with those same people of good will.

  • Doctor Tucson, AZ
    Oct. 12, 2010 3:51 p.m.

    Belgie-When you equate sexual orientation to drug addicts you are belittling folks who are SSA. I think I can honestly say no one cares how you police your own membership, but actively working in the political realm to pass laws based on your belief is not right. I know there are nuances to this subject. But gay marriage does not affect you. At worst you can claim theat allowing SSM will make your children tolerant of gays. Sort of what this statement is telling you to do.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Oct. 12, 2010 3:49 p.m.

    Nice but a small step on the right direction.

  • milhouse Atlanta, GA
    Oct. 12, 2010 3:49 p.m.

    I think every Mormon should be required to read this statement.

    So many of the comments I have seen on the DNews boards are in open conflict with these positions. Standing for principles is only appropriate when you know what the principles are.

  • IWTS Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 3:34 p.m.

    I think this is as clear and true as it comes, and I appluad the church for the way they have handled it. This is truly the way the Savior would have handles the circumstance: establishing their position as to God's law, while asking all to love and support those who are involved.

  • belgie Tualatin, OR
    Oct. 12, 2010 3:28 p.m.

    "I will never understand the 'we don't hate gay people, but work to stop gay marriage'"

    I don't think it's hard to understand. It's the same as saying "We don't hate drug addicts, but work to stop drug use."

  • InUtahButNotOfUtah South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:51 p.m.

    The official statement from the Church is very much well-said. I hope that Mormons everywhere will read it, study it, and highlight areas that emphasize kindness and love toward one another.

    And I'm looking for KM from Cedar Hills to try and accuse of me of apostacy again. Where are you?

  • Joe Moe Logan, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:38 p.m.

    The best-articulated statement from the church on this matter that I have seen. The leaders are clearly trying hard to listen and respond respectfully while clarifying church doctrine and holding to revealed doctrine. A big thanks for that. If everyone communicated this way, our society would be much better for it.

  • Last Stand Farmington, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:38 p.m.

    Re: Pagan

    You'd be better off to keep handy this statement:

    "We hope that any disagreement will be based on a full understanding of our position, and not on distortion or selective interpretation."

    Too many that try to tear down the church and consistently claim hypocrisy by church leaders and church positions on issues are certainly guilty of "distortion" and "selective interpretation".

  • marineveteran Mt. Vernon, IL
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:30 p.m.

    Please excuse me. I hit enter too quick and my last post was not completed. This was very well said. What I'm wondering about if the situation were reversed and over 100,000 signatures were gathered, would the Human Rights Commission have acted as quickly. Where are they when people have been verbally abused on temple square??? Where were they when LDS meeting houses were being destroyed after Proposition 8 was passed. I seem to remember them being absent. Oh well, it looks like human rights for a select few. I'm glad this Apostle of the Lord has stood up for my rights to value traditional marriage between a man and a woman.

  • Mayfair Claremore, OK
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:26 p.m.

    Regarding this entire official statement:

    Very, very well said!!

  • marineveteran Mt. Vernon, IL
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:26 p.m.

    Well said and Amen. The church took a stand for traditional marriage.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2010 2:11 p.m.

    'Such appalling events (teen suicides) simply have no place in our society, and we join our voice with others in unreserved condemnation of acts of cruelty, or attempts to belittle or mock any group or individual that is different – whether those differences arise from race, religion, mental challenges, social status, sexual orientation, or for any other reason.' - Article


    Nice statement. While I will never understand the 'we don't hate gay people, but work to stop gay marriage', I will keep this line handy.