Comments about ‘Mormon church reiterates its stance on marriage in response to petition from gay rights group’

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Published: Tuesday, Oct. 12 2010 1:49 p.m. MDT

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Ethel
Lindon, UT

Very well said statement and one that cannot be argued back. Excellent. Thank you for the clarification.

realitycheck247
Sylmar, CA

I realize this is a religious forum so one can expect religious answers... but most people on the planet don't have the same beliefs as you, and many don't think your God even exists. Yet you would spend millions of dollars and thousands of man-hours to ensure people that have nothing to do with your beliefs are held to your beliefs... ever heard of sharia law? is that what you have become?

no one (outside your church) even cares what your church's stance is on LGBT and SSM. It is only when you use your influence to FORCE EVERYONE to comply to your beliefs that it is a problem.

Those of you saying "it's not our opinion, it's God's law" or "Adam and Eve" (a real nice fairy tale, by the way) and quoting scriptures... so what? Speaking quotes from an old book means absolutely nothing. You are witholding rights from law-abiding and tax-paying people simply because you have a belief in a deity. That's not even reasonable. I'm shocked that you can't see just how wrong it is to force everyone to follow your beliefs.

Just Truth
Saratoga Springs, UT

And yet realitycheck247,

You reckon time the same way everyone else does in the real world, 2010 years since the birth of Christ.

And you still came from the first two parents that inhabited the Earth no matter how bad you are at keeping genealogical records.

Fact is, God exists whether you believe in Him or not.

The evidences of creation, and an order to that creation, are all around you; even though believers don't force you to follow their beliefs, understand when we don't give in to your beliefs either (of chaos and discord, where no one is in charge).

Lots of great comments on here. I read everyone's comments and respected how well thought out they really were. I feel for humanity's struggle, being born with temptations toward un-Godly desires from birth, and wish everyone well in living a more perfect way.

Deny God if you want, but living His way brings me more happiness than I could ever know otherwise--something we all seek--so there is no way I would deny Him and thereby deny myself the love he gives by justice and mercy that allows me to progress.

fresnogirl
Fresno, CA

realitycheck247

Talk about trying to FORCE others to comply with your beliefs: Let's not pretend that the post Prop 8 terrorism didn't occur. I saw it and experienced it!

See, no one can have a "dialogue" with the group you have come on this post to represent, because for that to occur, YOU would have to accept that others will and DO have a different viewpoint than you. But you refuse to do that. Instead you (as a group) name call and terrorize and threaten and mock ("nice fairy tale". What is this grade school?!). That is not a dialogue. That is YOU trying to FORCE your opinions on others.

We both know that under current California state law, marriage IS and has to be taught in the classroom from Kindergarten on. So changing the definition of marriage would then require that same sex marriage be taught. It is not the state's right to teach children something that their parent's find immoral. So who are YOU to force me to give up my parental rights? And, by the way, Mormons are a VERY small minority in Cali -- we didn't pass Prop 8 alone.

Y'shua friend.
Hurricane, UT

"In the church's statement later Tuesday afternoon, Otterson reiterated doctrinal positions – the church considers any sexual activity outside of marriage as wrong, and it defines marriage as between a man and a woman."

The LDS Church has taken the same stance by G-d's word as every other Bible believing Christian denomination, for when it comes to doctrine there is only one truth, and that is the truth that has been given to us by our Creator. There are some that would pervert that truth through hatred, but such do not represent the truth of G-d, nor of the Christian Church wherever it is found. Amen!

Bill in Nebraska
Omaha, NE

I understand how some can actually believe that same-sex attraction is inborn. However, mankind does not act on instinct. That means that we are able to change our lives or even our sexual orientation. Is it easy, of course not. Nothing in this life is supposed to be easy. There are some where this attraction may make it nearly impossible to avoid the attraction. When members state emphatically it is genetic and the leaders are only speaking their opinion especially during General Conference are way off base in my opinion. He is a prophet that chose his words wisely and propelled what I feel and know are correct and viable.

We were not placed here to be acted upon but to act for ourselves. The same-sex attraction is a tendency not genetic. This has been proven by science to be true. As President Packer stated our Heavenly Father will not give us a tendency if he doesn't make away for us to overcome it. The act of homosexuality is a CHOICE, plain and simple. Those who say it can't be reversed, there is no hope for you so you must give in to it are wrong.

Neanderthal
Chicago, Ill

@Craigo 1:13 p.m.

"However, a person with SSA is expected to live by the same morals as a hetro. Chastity before marriage, and fidelity after."

Are you kidding? Right now SSA's can't legally marry, and Oak's Church specifically and emphatically condemns it.

Some Churches teach that you will have the same feelings, intelligence, morals, etc., as you have in this life after you die. Which seems to say that you will still have a homosexual orientation in the next life.

JanSan
Pocatello, ID

I am a single LDS woman. I enjoyed Pres. Packers talk and know that it was given with love. It was given to LDS people who believe that the acts of homosexulity is morally wrong. If you are not LDS I do not understand why you are sooooooooooooo upset! If you do not believe our gospel then why should it upset you if you hear something you don't agree with.
I have a cousin who is gay, she is loved by us and accepted, I have also had friends who were gay. I hear a lot that the gays are upset for the fact that the church's council to them is to stay active and not marry. They use this council to prove the the LDS leaders and members don't understand their need and desire to marry and have families, and yet there are thousands of LDS women you will never marry, never have their dream fullfilled for the simple fact that there are not enough priesthood holders for all of them. yet they are given the same council as the gays,they live their lives yearning for what they can never have,yet remain faithful.

jasonlivy
Orem, UT

TO: Jiggle

This is exactly my point. We are being labeled haters, judgmental, intolerant, and unfair because we don't accept the homosexual behavior! No evidence has been unearthed, no gene has been discovered, and no science has proven that says 'they are born that way'. Some groups work tirelessly to 'prove' that homosexuality is an in-born trait which would absolutely take away any hope left for those who want to discard this behavior from their lives. For many this hope of a positive change in their lives is all they have...

However many choose this lifestyle and proclaim that they are picked on. They want us to accept their behavior as no different than the contrasting tastes we have for food, or the divergent tastes we have for clothing, etc. It's calling evil good, a total misrepresentation. This idea was revealed to ancient prophets thousands of years ago that man would fall into these traps! Why are we so blind? Why are we so hard-hearted as to not see the real truth?

Millions of dollars will be poured into studying the causes of homosexuality. What will we find? That it's ultimately a choice...

Shaun
Sandy, UT

There has to be something chemical or horomonal that takes place inside a gay person to make them attracted to the same sex because first off, who would choose to be gay. I dont say that with disrespect but it is like saying you want to be discrimnated against and looked at differently on a daily basis.

What makes straight people straight? I cant overcome my heterosexuality to become a homosexual. I couldnt be coached, counseled, or sit with a therapist on how to become gay.

Certain people are predisposed to certain genetic anomolys and I am certain gay people fall in that category.

across the sea
Topeno, Finland

Thanks to Mike Otterson for a job WELL DONE.
Nobody could have done it better... I just hope that all LDS would learn... LOVE and not judge.
There are families that suffer, individuals who suffer - victims that suffer.
Thanks Mike.
Jussi

Jiggle
Clearfield, UT

To jasonlivy

Acceptance of the lifestyle/behavior is not the issue. Denying rights because of it is!

The American Psychological Association says "there are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation. Most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a SIGNIFICANT role in a person's sexuality. It's important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation, and the reasons may be different for different people."

Is sexual orientation a choice?

No, human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. For most people, sexual orientation emerges in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

Can therapy change orientation?

The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.

HCW
Mesa, AZ

Assuming that gay people are born that way then it would indicate that gay behavior is genetically controlled. This theory sets up an interesting scenario. Suppose scientists did discover a gay gene; what is to prevent society from providing genetic counseling to pregnant women, to have their unborn child tested to see whether or not that unborn child possess the gene? If it is discovered that the fetus does have the gene, would the woman or couple be given the option to decide to have the child or terminate the pregnancy? What it all boils down to is if there really is a gay gene; after a generation, homosexuality would disappear unless we want to outlaw abortions. I don’t want to come off as sounding cruel but if a gay gene exists and it is scientifically proven, that is going to be the reality that will exist.

Peter Australia
Granthan, QLD

Just imagine what woulde be if we were all like that nobody would be here at all. It is a life choice for these people whom take on same sex relationships it definately isnt something they were born to they are still children of a loving heavenly Father BUT Heavenly Father would be most dissapointed by thier actions and regard that as sin against His commandments

gisse
Provo, Ut

To members of the gay community: We as members of the LDS Church love you and care about your well being. We believe that God's goal for us in this life, as well as the next, is for us to be happy and we want you to be happy just like anybody else. But please understand that we believe that the only way to be truly happy is by living the commandments of God. We believe that going against His commandments will in the end only bring pain. President Packer expressed no hate for you; in fact, his message, and mine as well, was solely of love to anybody who struggles with breaking any commandment. I don't expect you to change your mind because of me, but please understand that we believe that homosexuality is a sin, and therefore can only lead to unhappiness in the end. We want you to be happy, and for that reason we oppose homosexuality, just as we oppose pornography, drug use, dishonesty, and anything else that we believe is a sin. We help anybody with such problems, and President Packer's message was an invitation for you to accept Christs help.

snowman
Provo, UT

People, this life is a test. We are all given trails. e are asked to follow Gods law so that we can return home to be with him.

amanap
Washington, ut

Thank you to the LDS church for making a strong moral stand on this issue. In a time when everyone else is willing to fold to any political pressure the Church stands firm and it is greatly appreciated.

JM
Lehi, UT

Does anyone else feel like the gays you love deserved more from the HRC? I was excited for the visit, and I don’t expect activists to approach the compassion and openness of LDS Church leaders but I thought the HRC, at least, would build on common ground, discuss what they could do TOGETHER to stop bullying, of gays, and the ongoing bullying of LDS by activists, etc. They are human rights workers after all.

Instead they almost bullyingly blamed, demanded that an aged Disciple rescind something that he never said and that he conform his belief to their morality, and they claimed that APA/activist opinions were science etc. ..

On the other hand the LDS repeat of compassion was broad and inclusive.



I’m certain Elder Packer leads in supporting the Church position on homosexuality. As Christ’s steward he teaches me compassion for all, and that the natural born human exhibits diversity in desires, weaknesses, and passions, and there is no need to feel guilt about that, for Christ was likewise tempted.

Evidence indicates that genes do not create homosexuality, homosexual environments do “illicit” it, and gays changing behaviors for religion suffer no ills. (see Evergreen, narth, etc)

Sarah Nichole
West Jordan, UT

Realitycheck:

Two points.

1 - Just because many of us base our opinions on the subject on our belief in God does not mean that our opinions are any less valid than yours are because you do not believe in God. Every person in this country goes into the voting booth with their morals and values, circumstances, life experience, etc., with them, and votes according to their own conscience. We allow you that right, and to deny it to others simply because they have different morals and life experiences than you do is unConstitutional...whereas homosexual marriage is, at this time, not.

2 - "I'm shocked that you can't see just how wrong it is to force everyone to follow your beliefs" If we were actually forcing others to follow our beliefs, there would be no smoking, drinking or drugs. There would be no drinking Coke or Pepsi or Mountain Dew. There would be no rated-R movies, or premarital sex, or adultery, or practicing homosexuals. There would no Starbucks. You would be forced to attend all of your meetings, pay your tithing, fast once a month, wear modest clothing, etc. Clearly, we're not forcing you to do anything.

Thinking Outloud
Salt Lake City, UT

Seems like maybe these are perhaps the core questions in the minds of the LDS ?

1) Can gays/lesbians agree that it is possible for someone who disavows same sex intimacy to otherwise satisfactorily demonstrate respect for gay and/or lesbian individuals and couples ?

2) Can gays/lesbians agree that churches which disavow same sex intimacy should not be required to perform gay and/or lesbian marriages and/or be required to permit those not disavowing same sex intimacy to determine membership and/or participation rights ?

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