Comments about ‘In our opinion: Immigration and the rule of law’

Immigration

We need to remove and not create any rewards and incentives for immigrants to come here and be here illegally.

Immigrants that are here illegally should not have the ability to become United States Citizens prior to those outside the U.S. applying to come legally.

We do need to treat all, even those breaking our laws, as human beings. There should be incentives for those that are already here illegally to register with the U.S. Government for a short term work visa if done in conjunction with a sponsoring legal business. Those short term work visas should not be a step toward citizenship.

Citizenship, if desired and qualified for, must be applied for with the application from their country of origin, (unless qualifying for asylum) and behind those that have been waiting legally there.

What people really respect is justice/mercy/safety. Law believe it or not is not respected by most people. Most people will not obey a law just because it is a law. They have to believe in what the particular says. Case in point speed limits.

If people really respected law, just because it was the law people would obey this law.

The letter of the law can be proved unjust because people came here for opportunity? That's not a plausible defense.

Freedom is not a valid excuse as many came here before the drug wars.

We have laws. If followed they are fair. If broken, they hurt many people. Breaking the law usually does.

My ancestors were illegal squatters? I don't think so. The LDS church joined the US in their war against Mexico from July 1846 to July 1847. They arrived in Southern California January 29, 1847 several days after the Treaty of Cahuenga (January 13, 1847). With hostilities ended in the southwest they were discharged July 16, 1847. So they could return to their families that would arrive in the newly conquered land 8 days later. In September 1847 we walked the halls of Montezuma.

Unless the analogy of "illegal immigration" includes the declaration of war in 1985, it's not an analogy I think is valid. Nor do I appreciate my ancestors being called squatters and illegal because the settled conquered land.

Beautifully written. This editorial should be laminated and distributed to every Latter-day Saint. It's exactly in line with President Monson's Saturday sermon on the importance of charitable hearts.

According to the editorial, “One need not abandon the principle of accountability to provide a mechanism for people to work in and contribute to our society.”

1. Will the Deseret News hold the illegal aliens who are committing identity theft by using the Social Security numbers of an estimated 50,000 Utah children accountable for this major felony which does real harm to the victims?

2. Will it hold the estimated 75% of illegal aliens who are committing document fraud, social security fraud and perjury on I-9 forms accountable for these felonies?

3. Will the Deseret News undertake a campaign to teach those illegally in the United States that they are committing serious felonies when they use fraudulent documents, perjure themselves on I-9 forms, and use the stolen identities of Utah children and other Americans to get jobs?

4. Will the Deseret News include advocates for the victims of illegal alien identity theft on its editorial advisory board?

Sources: Estimate of the fraudulent use of Social Security numbers -the Social Security Administration’s Chief Actuary as reported by the New York Times and ACLU; Utah Department of Workforce Services investigations for Utah child identity theft figures.

Excellent editorial. You've been a rare voice of sanity in this debate.

Mr. Mortensen,

1. Will you and your group pay reparations to Mexican peasants that have been affected by NAFTA and can't compete with heavily subsidized US farmers; therefore obligating them to leave their lands and emigrate to the U.S to make ends meet?

2. Will you and your group set up a fund to pay for the damages caused by the proxy drug war being fought in Mexico that has caused almost 30,000 deaths, and has obligated thousands of people to flee Mexico to safety across the border in the U.S? Or will you plant and sell the drugs here?

3. Will you and your group shut down the infamous School of the Americas located in Georgia (since you are advocating our State taking over Federal attributions) that has provided terrorist aid to Central and South America and sponsoring genocide in Guatemala bloody, and civil wars all over the continent; thus generating more immigration to the U.S?

4. Would you accept any responsibility for this Mr. Mortensen? Are you sure you're the victim and not the immigrants?

Sources: PEW Hispanic, ACLU, Faqs.org, Noam Chomsky-Deterring Democracy

Amen Mr. Mortensen and SLars, excellent comments!!!

It's a strange read, first it talks about blatant law breaking, then it condemns us for enforcing our laws like every civilized society?

When it comes to fairness, the citizens of this country are at the top of the list. Then comes those who wait in line overseas. They are the ones that illegal immigration hurts the most.

You don't take what is not yours and justify it by saying the laws were unfair. You change the laws, or follow them.

In 1848 the US bought this land from Mexico, after winning it in a war.

I don't think compassion belongs in a discussion where people knowingly broke the law. I think that's a decision of the court, not public opinion.

Immigrant, part of my family came from Mexico. The US pays Mexico millions each year. NAFTA boosted Mexico to the 14th best economy in the world. We gave subsidizes to help build food programs for the poor. And our surplus feed corn has helped them build a thriving livestock export business. Americans gave up jobs when companies moved there. Mexico stopped it's corn subsidies to the poor this year. America didn't. The money was going to the drug lords and government leaders families. That's Mexico's fault.

The drug war is also Mexico's fault. Columbia and the US have told them how to stop it, but they refuse to listen. They are only going after two of the gangs, the biggest has been left alone. Something is wrong, and it's Mexico's job to fix it. (they still receive US money)

As far as Guatemala is concerned, Mexico is building a wall to keep them out. And amnesty international has has been pointing our human rights violations by Mexico.

We have legal immigration, use it like my family. And don't expect to bring 4 generations all at once. Demand is high.

Lets see now,, tax laws are unjust and unfair and people break them as a result. After all it is totally unfair that I have to pay more because I make more when I don't use roads, the military, or any other government service more than anyone else. Is there any fairness in this at all? I don't have to pay more for a car because I make more, why should I pay more taxes because I make more?
Now that we have thrown the 12th article of faith out the window (the one about obeying the law)I think I will quit paying taxes and use the same stupid, silly, logic I just read in this moronic article. I wonder if the DN will write a few hundred articles requesting amnesty from tax laws for me in the coming months and years. Why should they treat me differently than all the illegal Mexicans they cry about every day?

At the very least: First, secure the borders and stop the wave of illegals entering the Country. Second, enforce the law against employers of all sizes who hire illegals, and Third: millions of illegals will return to their homelands when no work is available - thus eliminating the need to "raid homes" as the article puts it. So yes, you can be "merciful" and "compassionate" while still upholding and respecting the law.

What is the real intention of this article? There are too many conflicting opinions to sift through. If the DN wants amnesty for illegals, just say it. If the DN wants the laws obeyed, just say it. This is way too confusing to sort out.

I agree with this editorial. Maybe the D-news could be a little more inclined to support other measures to relieve suffering like health care reform.

The business smokescreen goes on. Immigration is talked about from the humanistic point of view of the immigrant but is ignored in the point of view of American workers.

The problem is not with the immigrants themselves, it is with the unscrupulous use of them by business to do harm to other Americans.

If our government could recognize that we would all be better off if all the rules and regulations of a free world were followed, the respect for the law would be easy and beneficial. But when business is allowed to follow the law only when it wants too, it is hard for ordinary people to have much respect for the law.

CJ | 3:10 p.m.

We all agree that tax laws are unjust and unfair just like all the other laws, regulations, rule, edicts, commandments, admonishments, sins and whatever. But somehow most of us arrive at a balance of the good with the bad and not only accept the world but actually enjoy it.

If you make more, we have to assume that you have more as the result of receiving more.

Some of us believe that the people who get more out of life should be willing to pay more for the previlage. And that the only accounting that matters is done by Saint Peter.

This editorial avoids mentioning that America remains the world's most generous nation toward immigrants, taking in over 1 million legal immigrants a year. Our heritage is alive and well. Cracking down on illegal immigration and the additional criminal behavior associated with it does nothing to diminish our standing.

The Deseret News should understand that illegal immigration is the enemy of legal immigration. The most effective way to get Americans to consider enlarging legal immigration opportunities is to seal the border and make it clear to illegals already here that there will be no amnesty.

Re: Ronald Mortensen | 12:10 p.m. Sept. 26, 2010
Bountiful, UT

1. Will the Deseret News hold the illegal aliens who are committing identity theft by using the Social Security numbers of an estimated 50,000 Utah children accountable for this major felony which does real harm to the victims?

2. Will it hold the estimated 75% of illegal aliens who are committing document fraud, social security fraud and perjury on I-9 forms accountable for these felonies?

3. Will the Deseret News undertake a campaign to teach those illegally in the United States that they are committing serious felonies when they use fraudulent documents, perjure themselves on I-9 forms, and use the stolen identities of Utah children and other Americans to get jobs?

4. Will the Deseret News include advocates for the victims of illegal alien identity theft on its editorial advisory board?

Sources: Estimate of the fraudulent use of Social Security numbers -the Social Security Administration’s Chief Actuary as reported by the New York Times and ACLU; Utah Department of Workforce Services investigations for Utah child identity theft figures.




Reply: DN might be wearing their heart on their sleeve a little too obviously?.

Utah thinks its being slick.


State and local investigators in Utah uncovered a crime spree involving illegal aliens using the SSNs of tens of thousands of children. They identified 1,626 companies paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13.18 One child's SSN was being used by 37 adults.

Illegal aliens used the Utah children's SSNs to get jobs, start businesses, and open bank accounts. One suspect told investigators he paid $100 for a boy's SSN. Victims included a five-year-old girl who supposedly traveled 80 miles to her job at a steak restaurant, an eight-year-old boy who apparently owned a cleaning company and worked as a prep cook at two upscale restaurants, and an 11-year-old boy who supposedly worked for an express air freight company. The suspects were charged with third degree felony counts of identity fraud and forgery.