Interesting this topic is on censorship. I wrote a very thoughtful opinion and
it is no where to be found. I guess I will share my comments on a different
site as this one practices the very practice Coppins said was bad for the
soul... Keep ur heads in the sand, see how that works for you,,,
Who suggested mortal life should be one of following by "Blind Obedience"?I rejected that plan,I choose to think for myself, I choose
which way to go, I know right from wrong, I can discern for myself
the truth.In the final judgement, I will stand on my own
merits....and will never need to say --Well so and so told me, such
and such.Censorship - no matter how noble the cause -- is just
another word for deceit...a half truth, i.e., a lie.I don't need a
white washed history.That is how fables and myths and legends are
created, and over time they are so watered down and discredited to the point
that ultimately they become little more than jokes and are easily laughed off as
pure non-sense.The late 20th and early 21st century is the
information age.It is the dispensation of the restoration of all
things.All things coming to light.Truth restored. All truth - no
just religious.The pre-Millineum era when all truth shall be revealed.I welcome it!Bring it on!!!
More Americans have given up their faith or changed religions because of a
gradual spiritual drift than because of disillusionment over their churches'
policies, according to a study by the Pew Forum in 2009...NOT because they are
no longer willing to abide by religious precepts as John Charity Spring says
without providing any sources. The study suggests that what leads people to
leave their faith is that, somehow for some reason, it isn't meeting their needs
. . . religion becomes less plausible to the person".
We go to our meetings to feel the Spirit, and to support one another in the
Gospel. Because of the limited amount of time we have each week, we often speak
in generalities, rather than details. The details are for personal study.We each have different interests, however. I don't care for science, for
example, but I love history. So reading the church history accounts is something
I've done a lot of, but I couldn't begin to tell you anything about the atom.
The point is, our knowledge is not the same. When we're called as
teachers, we can only share what we know. Some of us will be taught things in
our weekly church meetings that will come as a surprise to others from different
wards. Just because you aren't taught something in church, it
doesn't mean it's not widely available information. The multiple accounts of the
First Vision, the translation process, even the fact that Joseph Smith had a gun
at Carthage, have all been well documented by church leaders, and have all been
printed in the Ensign in the past. If something comes as a surprise, then pray
It is interesting how some members insist that those who leave the church do so
because they cannot keep the commandments or were personally offended. There is
no question that some leave for those reasons. But to not acknowedge that some
very obedient and unoffended members leave because of LEGITIMATE historical and
doctrinal problems is naive and limits our ability to help those who
struggle.This fact is plain and simple - there are some historical
and doctrinal issues that are very troubling for some and that are legitimate
concerns. And the standard response of just blaming anti's or saying to "put it
on the shelf for now" just does not cut it for some.I know former
Bishops and Stake Presidents who simply could not continue to live with the
disconnect they felt between what they learned and what they were always taught
and felt pressure to teach themselves.My point is to simply say that
sometimes we have to be transparent, empathize, and stop spinning or blaming.
The LDS doctrine has phenominal truths. It is a shame that many abandon that
because some of us just don't know how to respond or relate to them.
Censorship is always bad. Censorship has no place in religion. I really can't
believe some people are debating this.
I can't believe some of these comments! People are actually defending
censorship?! Censorship is ALWAYS wrong. It should have no place in the Gospel
of Jesus Christ.
I'm a sixth generation Utah mormon. I've returned from my 2 year mission with
honor, served in young men's presidencies, sunday school presidencies, elder's
quorum presidencies, and taught gospel doctrine. I testified of the gospel for
decades. Full of the spirit, I was sure the church was true.Why do I
no longer attend? Because I'm convinced the church is not true. Do I
have problems with obedience? No, the only reasons I would fail a temple
recommend interview would be related to my lack of participation and belief.Did the church's seminary and sunday school version of history play a
role in my life? Yes, I would have left much earlier in my life if the church
were more up front about it's past.
Bill in Nebraska: Censorship and Brigham Young: "I have many a time,in this
stand,dared the world to produce as mean devils as we can,we can beat them at
anything[BYU football]. We have the greatet and smoothest liars in the
world,the cunningest and most adroit thieves,and any other shade of character
that you can mention. We can pick out Elders in Israel right here who can beat
the world in gambling who can hanlde the cards,cut and shuffle them with the
smartest rogue on the face of God's footstool. I can produce Elders here who
can shave their smartest shavers and take their money from them. We can beat
the world at any game. We can beat them,because we have men here that live in
the light of the Lord,that have the Holy Priesthood and hold the keys of the
kingdom of God." (JoD v,4 p.77).
I don't like how Mormons portray those who choose to leave the church.There are plenty of people who believed in it just as much as you do, but they
choose to leave. Obviously you find this troubling. If they've had similar
experiences and knowledge as you, why would they leave? Do they know something
that you don't? Have they come to some realization that you haven't? What is
their thought process? It's far easier to believe that they leave because
@Utah Fan 11:23When the "Martyrdom" of Joesph Smith is depicted in church
videos he never has a gun. Even though you can find in other church materials
that he did have one. Can you honestly say that it is an honest depiction of
the events? Omitting parts of the story is dishonest. Just because it exists
in some reference material doesn't make it okay to omit it.
TO JAX and cmtam:It really boils down to the fact that many who have
left the Church is because they never had a fool testimony of the Church. They
have Word of Wisdom problems and feel outsided. I have visted with many and it
is my experience that they could not live by the precepts of Mormonism. The LDS
Church is not a weekly Church service and then doing what ever I please. It is
completely a way of life. Many can not accept that at all. Some of them have
put the leaders of the Church on a pedastal and then when they find out
differently they leave. That is strickly pride. I stand by my last comment.
You may not agree but those are the facts.Faith without works is
dead. You must try to live your life as well as you can and in the end it will
be the grace of Jesus Christ that saves you. I suggest you both read and study
the talants parable again.
@cmtam | 2:39 p.m. Sept. 24, 2010 Lake Forest, Ca ADN:
Censorship,"If Joseph made up all of this religion, why would he portray himself
in such a negative light like in the Doctrine and Covenants",Hard to tell.
Do you have(D&C 17:22-23)? I do.--------------What D&C edition
are you using? There are only nine verses in Section 17
IT NOT a question of censorhip,it is question of what is
most important.you can acknowledge flaws and mistakes,but dwelling on them, making a big deal out of them, serves no purpose, unless your purpose is to personally attack someone.Everyone has flaws and makes mistakes,they show you are human,but
do not tell you who you are.flaws and mistake show you Joseph
Smith's humanity,but they do not tell you who he is.
Censorship has long been used as an excuse by those who abandon religion. In
reality, censorship has nothing to do with it.Study after study has
revealed that those who abandon religion do so because they are no longer
willing to abide by religious precepts. Those who are honest must admit this
truth, rather than censor the real reason.The uncensored truth is
that it is hard to live by the precepts of religion. Indeed, the values of
moderation, prudence, and chastity are all looked down upon by modern society.
That is why many have lost their way.
ADN: Censorship,"If Joseph made up all of this religion, why would he portray
himself in such a negative light like in the Doctrine and Covenants",Hard
to tell. Do you have(D&C 17:22-23)? I do.I left the Church because,
like the song "Amazing Grace", "For it is by grace you have been saved through
faith,and this this not from yourselves it is the gift of God,not by works so no
one can boast(verse 10)For we re God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus to
'do good works',which God prepared in advance for us to do."(Ephesians 2:8-10).
Good works should follow salvation, I am not a carnal Christian, I beleive in
the Lorship of Jesus Christ. I did not leave the Mormon Church over censorship
or people,but if I try to post some things the Prophets have said ,in the past,
that the Chruch does not like I get censored.
"That is about 99% of all reasons for leaving."Actually Bill, there
are many web sites online where people that have left the church gather for
support and socializing. From what I've observed, the vast majority left the
church because they no longer believed that the church is "true", usually
because they learned things that are true but not faith promoting. I encourage
you to make an attempt to talk to some of these people about their feelings.
Try to understand where they are coming from. I also encourage you look up John
Dehlin who has made a name for himself (as an active member) trying to help
members like yourself try to understand the real reasons people leave the
church, rather than the canned reasons you might reflexively state in Sunday
I agree with Utah Fan. Mr. Coppins has presumed church censorship without
providing any examples. Would you care to provide your references of church
censorship Mr. Coppins?
The revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants show a prophet who is chastised
and rebuked and told to repent on multiple occasions. I think that Joseph
struggled with people who thought he was divine, against the people who didn't
think a prophet was needed today. He was trying to educate people that there is
a need for a prophet to speak on behalf of the Lord to His children. He also
was trying to let them know that he was mortal, yes, he made mistakes and had
problems. But, he still was a prophet of the Lord. If Joseph made
up all of this religion, why would he portray himself in such a negative light
like in the Doctrine and Covenants?
I agree with those above as far as censorship in the Church is concerned. Many
of the so called half truths about Joseph Smith is being based on life today,
not in the mid 1800s. I have found that those who have left the Church have
done more on having their feelings hurt or never really had a testimony of the
truth. Also, when someone begins to think they no more about the Gospel than
the President of the Church they are on their way to leaving the Church. Even
Moses made his mistakes and was for all purposes not allowed to enter the
Promised Land.People who leave the Church because they feel they
never received the WHOLE TRUTH were basically looking for a reason in the first
place. I know many people who have stayed with the Church because of hurt
feelings because they know that the Gospel is true, but people are imperfect. I
also feel th biggest reason people live is their own pride. That is about 99%
of all reasons for leaving.
Church Histroy tends to censor Brigham Young,"...when you feel like killing
me...as some of the people did who called themselves brethren in the days of
Joseph Smith,look out for yourselves,for false brethern were the cause of
Joseph's death,and I am not a righteous man." (JoD vol 3. p.49)Who killed
I am not convinced the Church has "censored" its history, as claimed by critics
or even yourself, if that is what you are claiming. Yes, we don't learn in
Sunday School about a stone in a hat while Joseph translated the Book of Mormon,
or the full history in Joseph and plural marriage. But that information (and far
more) HAS been available in other LDS sources - you just had to look for it -
and I have found it myself for 25 years. I don't go to Sunday services to learn
about details of church history. I have done that on my own time for the past 25
years. I go to Sunday services to have a wonderful spiritual experience -
learning about the simplicities of the gospel.The problem is not
church censorship. The problem has been a lack of detailed study by most
members, which is fine with me. Members can study details on their own. Just
because I have done it does not make me superior or inferior. Now, we are simply
discovering that it is beneficial for more members to understand church history
in more detail. Many more are doing that which is good.
the gospel of Jesus Christ as restored through Joseph Smith is not censored.
Censorship happened long before the flood and the arc with Noah bringing 8 soles
through. Mankind is imperfect and prophets are like the rest of us and Joseph
Smith was called to bring forth the gospel in it's fullness which he did. Only
through Jesus Christ can we be saved and return to our Heavenly home.
"Censorship is bad for the soul." Well put McKay. I've talked with
many Mormons that have left the church upon discovering the more accurate
history of the church. Often the complaint is that the information itself
wouldn't have been as damaging if the church would have been more forth-coming
and honest about it. Many feel betrayed and suspect an that they were