Pew study says faith plays role in some, but not all, issues
Morality of the body vs. morality of economics. I think it's an interesting
contrast for religion. It's easy to talk about morality of the body
and condemn homosexuality, or abortion, or any number of other sexual "sins" but
as we've seen with many religious leaders, they can hide those sins which are
exposed in scandals.Economic morality though is harder to deal with
for religion and maybe that's why it's not talked about very much. When you
follow the money, you follow the values of someone. If you don't talk about
economic values or morality then you can do what you want with your money. All this to me shows the hypocracy of religion because we talk about
what you can't see and ignore what you can see. Personally I think a lot more
people are hurt because of poverty. Poverty also causes many well healed
religious people (not all) to condemn the poor because poverty comes with so
many other problems with are immoral.
I'm glad you pointed that out, RedShirt. It's interesting how people flip the
coin to meet their own perspective, without realizing it's what they're accusing
others of doing.Candide, I respect the fact that you're an atheist.
I may not agree with you, it doesn't make sense to me, I can't look at a protein
molecule under a microscope or read about the human eye in an anatomy book and
believe these things happened accidentally.But I don't call atheists
brainwashed and stupid. I ask the same in return.
To "Candide | 1:57 p.m." here is what is interesting about your arguement
against there being a God.You said "I feel deeply about mine as
well. Feelings cannot be trusted. Human beings are so easliy fooled, especially
by things they desperately want to believe in. It is called wish
fullfillment."You have feel that God does not exist. Yet, you say
that you can't trust feelings and especially when it is something you want to
believe in. So, using your logic, you can't be an Atheist either because you
base your atheism in a feeling.How do we know that your deep
feelings that being atheist are not just a "wish fullfillment" of yours?
@Keith, how do you know I haven't received a "personal" revelation? My
revelation is just different that yours. How do you know yours is right? Because
you feel deeply about it? I feel deeply about mine as well. Feelings cannot be
trusted. Human beings are so easliy fooled, especially by things they
desperately want to believe in. It is called wish fullfillment. I can't
experience something doesn't exist because I have a close personal relationship
@ Candide, 10:51 a.m. Just because you haven’t received
“personal” revelation from God yourself, doesn’t mean it is
non-existent. You have your “opinion”, and that’s all you
have. I, and many others who post here, know beyond a doubt, that the heavens
are not closed, that God can and does speak to us. I personally experience it
nearly every day of my life. And while it cannot be explained to a person who
has never experienced it; it nonetheless, is an experience that when it
occurs, I cannot deny it — because I feel and know of His presence and
pure knowledge flows from Him into my mind and heart. No one can help you
understand this - It would be like me trying to explain to you what salt tasted
like, if you never had tasted it before. Those of us who experience these
communications, are simply left with no doubt. And the point is, God is no
respecter of persons. He loves us all equally — To know what the word of
God is, all we need to do is exercise our faith in Him and live worthy to
receive His guidance.
Homosexuality does come down to a belief in God or not. If one believes in
Jesus Christ or Jehovah as the Lord then there is no other ground than
homosexuality lifestyle is a sin, just like pre-marital sexual relation or
extra-marital sexual relations. I believe that when people fight
against thier conscience they are trying to get rid of accountability. If they
can claim that "their god" is different than mine, then they think they won't be
held accountable for thier actions. Just because you deny a supreme being
doesn't mean He isn't there and that there will be an accountability.
Therefore, in my mind the question isn't if homosexuality is wrong or right, it
is if Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world or not. If He is, than the
homosexuality question is not a question. If He isn't then murder, rape, incest
and any other form of "evil" is ok and it doesn't matter.
TO "LDS Liberal | 10:28 a.m. " explain how you can "adhere to a
live-and-let-live attitude toward life." at the same time that you promote
socialism which is the eliminates the ability of people to have Agency (there is
nothing free about it).As for your Theocracy, now that is something
that the LDS church teaches will eventually come to earth when Jesus returns to
earth.Look at what the liberals have said about taking care of the
poor. They say, if people won't do it it the way liberals want, they will pass
taxes and laws and force you to help the poor. Now, who's plan was it to force
you to do good?If you don't like rules, please name a theological
philosophy that has no rules for conduct.To "xscribe | 8:25
a.m." God is not a magical being who controls us. God does not want to control
us. He sent us here to learn to choose right from wrong, and hopes we choose
right. He set things in motion, but we still have our own choices to make.
Cats, there is no way for you to know what the word of God is. Has God appeared
to you personally, and if so did you video the conversation and put it on You
Tube? The WORD of your god was handed down to you by men. Men are fallible.
What if those men got it wrong? God speaks to me and she says that as long as I
don't hurt others she doesn't care what I do in my bedroom.
Cats | 8:36 a.m. Sept. 22, 2010 Provo, UT I'm ready to accept
the word of GOD on these matters. =============== You
know, the funny thing - I agree with that statement. And I do too.The difference is some people - mostly Conservatives - wish to dictact HOW to
live on others. Forcing others to always choose the right.[Cats, who's
plan was that?]I adhere to a live-and-let-live attitude toward
life.It's called FREE AGENCY.[Cats, who's plan was that?]And the whole GOD told us to do things, and pass laws strictly on one's
interpretation of what GOD said is called a Theocracy, and am against that as
Well Cats, looks like a person can pick and choose the study to come to their
desired conclusion. I imagine that you would agree that there is no
consensus among the scientific community. I have no problem with that.But it makes me wonder what you are referring to when you write - "I'm sorry, this isn't what many want to hear, but it is nevertherless
correct"Are you really basing that statement on the the studies that
have no scientific consensus?Regardless, I am pretty open either way
as it does not really matter much to me whether gays are born that way or
not.I wonder how many of the "religious" would accept a conclusive
study that was universally accepted by the scientific community that isolated a
"gay" gene.Or, would they defer to your thinking of "I'm
ready to accept the word of GOD on these matters." Me? I'm
flexible. I will keep an open mind. And not lose much sleep regardless.
To expand on bye bye butterfly's opening comment, it is a matter of indisputable
fact, that all of us are born with a conscience, and know right from wrong. To
me at least, that is also indisputable proof, that there is a loving
“creator” who is beyond our present mortal view, who endowed us with
a “conscience”. Why would He do that? I’ll let you answer
that for yourselves. The point is, the power is within each of us to make
correct choices in our lives, or not. Many people through consistent bad
choices have seared their conscience’s, to a point that they have given up
a major part of their power to choose the right. Whether He be our Heavenly
Father or some other person, or whatever else you chose to believe that this
power of choice comes from, doesn’t matter. The point is, it is there, in
all of us.As others have stated here, I choose to follow the
guidance of the Spirit in my life (my conscience), supported by my religious
beliefs, rather than be driven to and fro by every wind of doctrine (man’s
opinion) that comes along.
Dear Joe Blow: The study that is often cited by those who want to take the
position that gays are born gay was conducted in Holland--probably the most gay
affirming society in the world. However, the study concluded that
genentics MAY play a roll in determining "gayness" but that if so, it is only
ONE of several factors, one of which is CHOICE. Others include environment,
development, etc.In addition, studies have shown that if an
identical twin is gay, there is only about a 20% chance that the other will also
be gay. I am citing the head of the Human Genome Project. The
position taken by The American Psychiatric Association, etc., is based solely on
"politically correct" votes that have been taken by their membership. It is not
based on any scientific study.I'm sorry, this isn't what many want
to hear, but it is nevertherless correct. Do I have sympathy with the problems
faced by many gays--YES. Do I have any sympathy with their social and political
agenda--NO.I'm ready to accept the word of GOD on these matters.
@Jedivan: There's also no "real facts," as you term it, that God exists, yet
people follow "God" as if he/she/it were real. Being an athiest myself, I have
to admit I don't understand how anyone can believe there's a "magical" something
out there controlling our every being. However, I will admit that for those who
do believe, who truly believe, most likely get much benefit and comfort for
their everyday lives.@Cats: There's also not one study that
concludes that one is not born homosexual. And I believe the day will come very
quickly where they will find that specific gene. When there are multiple people
born with a multitude of different diseases and those that are born with both
genetalia and the parents have to make an on-the-spot decision which gender that
child will be, it does not even begin to sound far-fetched that people are born
as homosexuals. Isn't it interesting the paradigm between Mormons, a religion
who started out persecuted, are now the biggest persecutors of gays? But I'm
sure you believe they choose that course.
@ BlueI disagree. Everyone is born with a sense of right and wrong.
It's called a conscience. No matter what nation they're born into, they know
instinctively that things like yelling is wrong. That lying is naughty. That a
man doesn't love another man in the same way as he does a woman. That being
hungry doesn't make it ok to steal your brother's food.It's the
environment they're raised in and what they're taught that will set beliefs, be
they religious or cultural, in their minds. There are staunch
atheists who are strongly opinionated on these topics, but have no such
"religious" beliefs. And there are plenty of people who still
disagree with those around them, form their own beliefs and stand on their own,
be they what others consider wrong or right. God gave us minds and
an ability to reason.
The article once again shows the media's bias toward illegal immigrants. notice
it did not distiguish between LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants, but again phrased it
as favoring immigrants or opposing immigrants. Why do they insist on degrading
legal immigrants by lumping them in with illegal immigrants? I
followed the link to Pew's webpage and it did not distinguish between legal and
illegal either (so perhaps the media can be forgiven this one time). It did not
look like the questions they asked differentiated between legal and illegal
immigrants. If the questions did not, then the results are invalid. It's like saying since Mao was chinese and was responsible for killing
millions of people, then all chinese are responsible for killing millions of
people. When there are important differences between subjects of a question,
the question should differentiate.
Cats writes "In fact, there has never been one study that concludes that
one is born homosexual"Well thenCan you cite "One study
that concludes that one is NOT born homosexual?"Guess that logic
works both ways.Can you detail out a scenario in your earlier life
that would have made you gay? Because, for the life of my, I can't
even fathom a situation that would have made me gay.The reason I
believe that people are born gay is based on my logic and common sense. It just
makes the most sense.Of course my logic could be flawed. I will
admit that I do not know.But, my views are not influenced by
religious leaders who have nothing more than their opinions to base their
teachings.And, we certainly know that SOME (certainly not all)
religious teachings have been terribly wrong in the past.In
addition, the religious have the NEED to believe that homosexuals are not born
homosexual. Otherwise, it would suggest that God made them that way. That
would turn their world upside down.Thanks, but I will draw my own
conclusions on matters such as this.
It seems to me concerning that such social issues that impact everyone, of every
belief, are pushed by subjective religious opinions. If you're going to be
involved in producing laws and policies that effect others, shouldn't you have
to support it with publicly available premises?
Dear LDS Liberal: You CLEARLY don't watch Fox News or you would know that your
claims about the needy, immigrantion and the environment are incorrect. And, I
might add, the Church has never taught that one should be forced by government
to do good. That is Satan's plan. Doing good is a matter of personal moral
agency.And to Jedivan: In fact, there has never been one study that
concludes that one is born homosexual. In addition, life begins at conception.
That is scientific fact.I totally get your point though, and I have
no problem following God's word instead of the philosophies of men.
Amazing!!!The clergy spoke positively about the providing for
the poor and the needy,immigration, and the Environment.Looks like Conservatives need to do more listening at church, and less to
talk radio and Fox News.
Pagan stated, "Conclusive evidence that some people don't want the facts of the
matter." The problem is that there aren't really any real "facts" regarding
whether homosexuality is based strictly on choice or if a homosexual is born
that way. What "facts" there are on this issue tend to be slanted towards the
bias of an individual's belief. Likewise, there are no "facts" as to the exact
moment a human embryo becomes "alive", which muddles the issue of abortion. In
such a climate, many find solace with religion, preferring the "truth" that is
perceived from communing with Diety to "facts" that can be twisted one way or
@ Z in S Jordan. Well said and truthfully spoken!
Religion is being used to validate personal biases.In such an
environment you have certainty, absent objective evidence and in spite of
objective contradictory evidence, being preferred over objective evidence
Sorry, that should be STOP listening.
True, Pagan, but some of them eventually wake up and top listening to the
liberal media, and start thinking for themselves...
'Same-sex marriage is the leading issue where respondents say religion belief
is the most important influence in their opinion – at 35 percent,
including 60 percent of those identifying themselves as conservative and 5
percent of liberals.' - Article Conclusive evidence that some
people don't want the facts of the matter. They would rather be told what to
believe, instead of investigate it themselves. Tragic.