Comments about ‘Pornography 'grips you with claws'’

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Published: Monday, Sept. 20 2010 10:00 p.m. MDT

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Alex 1
Tucson, AZ

charlie91342 | 2:22 p.m. Sept. 21, 2010:

"the problem isn't porn. the problem is a lack of moderation and self-control. same with drugs or anything esle. moderation is the key."

Actually both porn and the lack of self-control are the problem. Lack of moderation is NOT the problem. Moderate use of pornography is what got a lot of people hooked in the first place.

Too many duped people fancy themselves as moderate, open-minded, and in control right before they discover that they cannot easily pull themselves away from it. Pretty soon, the moderate dose of pornography ends up not getting them the fix it once did. At this point, their new standard of moderation becomes what was once considered harder-core pornography.

If you really are one of those "elites" who "can handle it maturely", do you really want to encourage others to play Russian Roulette with their potential susceptibility to pornography addiction, just so you can congratulate yourself at how superior you are?

  • 3:07 p.m. Sept. 21, 2010
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trickygringuito
Salt Lake City, UT

The problem is with the completely unhealthy view of sex that has such a tight grip on the Utah culture.

You watch an action movie where the protagonist kills all the bad guys with a single shot. But you get educated about firearms and you see how unrealistic it is. In the chase scene they barrel down the highway leaving path of destruction but come out unscathed. Then you drive down I-15 in real life and things couldn't be more different.

Then there's the porno. You see something that is just as unrealistic as the above scenarios, but where's the healthy real life counter argument?

There isn't one. And the Utah LDS culture (no, I did not say church) does everything in it's power to make sure that the healthy reality is left unknown. Outright lies about what is and isn't sinful between spouses abound. Sex and sex acts are dirty sinful things that can't even be thought about without. One party in a marriage may want something perfectly fine and healthy from their relationship but find that their partner has been programmed into thinking it's dirty and sinful.

Bethanymom
Murray, UT

Trickygringuito: Sadly I think you may have hit the nail on the head when it comes to many marital problems. Not just in the LDS culture, but in society in general.

Too many parents are not having frank, serious discussions with their kids about what it and isn't realistic to expect when they marry. Not just about sex, but about money, responsbility, division of labor, etc. Somehow parents are avoiding the "tough" talks and then wondering why their kids don't seem to get it.

I admit it is not easy to talk to my 2 girls about sex. But I want them to have a more open relationship with me then I did with my mother. I want them to be able to come to me when they have questions or problems.

I want to be able to help them understand that marriage is not always easy, so ignore at least 50% of what you read in books, and be prepared to make a lot of opinion changes, and course adjustments.

Feel comfortable enough to talk to your new spouse. Chances are he wants to talk to you about things too.

Taylor
Orem, UT

These are good and helpful articles, and I believe we should take heed, for the most part. However, they are also clearly one-sided, and not always accurate. Note, for example, the survey results that men prefer sex, not porn as the researchers believe.

Also note the following contradiction:

"how can a real women possibly compete with a cybervision of perfection, downloadable and extinguishable at will, who is utterly submissive and tailored to the customer's least specification?:

Personally, some exposure to porn early in life steered me in a completely opposite direction. I prefer (as do many men) dominant Women (not the least bit submissive!), who may rarely even allow me any sexual privileges. I also think that some 90-97% of Women are gorgeous, and I am interested in an emotional, social and intellectual relationship.

Hmmm, not quite the stereotype these articles portray and clearly state is the only result of any exposure to porn. Maybe these articles are missing something? Something important? Lots important?

U of U Fan
Salt Lake City, UT

I agree with lostsoul | 12:29 p.m.

Shaming men with this problem will only lead to excessive guilt. What does that lead to? More secrecy and more avoidance of the issue, and deeper and deeper addiction.

There has GOT to be a way for church members to portray the message that porn is wrong, while offering love and hope for the sinner. This message, for the most part, is NOT being portrayed. And Utah Mormon men struggle enormously with this problem as they are burdened with guilt and don't seek help.

If the man was 100% confident that if the message would be "I know you are doing porn, but I love you so much and want to help you and not condemn you" then the success rate would be FAR greater than now.

The Savior's words about the woman taken in adultery still apply to men with porn problems:

"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

We all want recovery for those caught up in it. The Savior shows the way with His love.

Please DN - start focusing on the help and less on the guilt!

Marduk
Logan, UT

What a fascinating debate! While personally I have a hard time with the exploitation of women that accompanies the porn industry, I can also (by experience in my current, very happy relationship with a wonderful man) see how small amounts of porn can liven up intimacy in marriage when shared together in a spirit of wanting to increase the mutual pleasure.

The key word is mutually. Perhaps the reason that so many women lose interest in intimacy is because their partner has no idea how to make it extremely enjoyable for the woman. It becomes then, a chore, something to keep the MAN happy. This is not right, and too often a consequence of men viewing pornography- they see women as only being the object of MEN's pleasure.

Rather, an open and honest dialogue about wanting to find ways to make the shared experience better for BOTH partners can accompany a very small amount of porn, usually viewed together. If BOTH partners are satisfied, they won't find it necessary to look outside the relationship, but rather for ways to enhance what exists between the two of them.

The Dixie Kid
Saint George, UT

How come nobody talks about lack of intimacy in a relationship as a reason why men turn to pornography in the first place?

Chris B
Salt Lake City, UT

Pagan,

Don't pretend that the great majority of your posts are directed at "a church."

I'm not quite sure what the point of bringing the fact that Utah has a high porn subscription into the conversation was. No one argued that point, yet you bring things up so defensively to prove a point, yet no one has denied that point to begin with.....

I'm not Mormon either, and I don't agree with everything they do, but it's just comical to watch as you try and blame nearly all of life's problems either on the Mormons or George Bush.

And for the record, you have brought up "the church" 1,265,835 in posts like these, so to suggest otherwise is simply nonsense.

For those capable of keeping the comments on hand to the article, it is interesting to see the opposing view on this divisive topic.

Kevin
Surrey, BC

to Jiggle | 10:59 a.m. Sept. 21, 2010
Clearfield, UT

President Hinkley and Monson have been very clear on this topic. There is nothing good about porn. Our bodies are private and temples of God. They are not to be displayed to the world. People who view porn lose the Spirit and move further away from God and the Saviour. Porn is highly offensive to God.

Kevin
Surrey, BC

to: Marduk | 7:09 p.m. Sept. 21, 2010
Logan, UT

read my earlier post. Just because a couple view porn together doesn't make it right. Porn is evil and offensive to God. Mutual consent doesn't make it right. How can any woman tolerate her man looking at the naked body of another woman? Those images will be burned into his head forever. Is that what you want him to think about when he is with you?

wpwitt2000
Youngstown, OH

Dixie Kid. The reason nobody talks about lack of intimacy in a relationship as the reason men turn to pornography in the first place is the editors of this website don't post those comments! I talked about it in my comment on the other porn article and, my comment was not posted!

Joggle
Clearfield, UT

To Kevin from Jiggle/Joggle

Respectfully I say....President Hinkley and Monson statements are not statements I believe to be true. I'm not LDS and I'm not a slave to any religion. Just because a religious leader states what they do doesn't mean the whole world believes it or has to follow it. If you want to believe what you stated above....that's fine...but I have a right to not believe the same OR have it determine how I live MY life. How can you offend a supernatural entity that has no universally proven existence? You are taking YOUR beliefs as stated by your leaders and trying to apply it to everyone. That's impossible!

Nothing inspires an addiction to porn in human beings more reliably than sexual repression. Religions champion such abuse of spirit and body by telling members normal sexual acts are sinful, immoral, and punishable by God. This view can sometimes leads to neuroses or other ill effects such as abuse of pornography. Religion isn't an innocent entity when it comes to being a contributing cause of this obsessiveness with porn.

Have to ever read the porn in the Bible?

Happy Valley Heretic
Orem, UT

Joggle said: Have to ever read the porn in the Bible?

I'm sure they have, they were just told it meant something else, like wine is grape juice.

22ozn44ozglass
Southern Utah, UT

Pagan:

I suggest you take the time to actually read Edelmans study on on line porn subscriptions instead of just posting the same cliche headlines and quotes. It is evident to all who have followed your posts over the past 3 yrs that you overtly or covertly attempt smear the LDS and Republicans on a regular basis. Here is what Edelman told me as a response to my putting him on the spot regarding his "study"

"It’s not quite that there were more Utah subscribers than any other state, but there were more Utah than any other state after controlling for other factors, as detailed in my article, such as (in various versions of my analysis) population, Internet usage, high-speed Internet access, and demographics" Ben Edelman 5/10/11

Dont let the truth get in the way of your agendas

gdog3finally
West Jordan, Utah

@Lost soul

Well said. I think many could use a read over on your comments.

I see problems in the few DesNews porn articles I have read the last few years. First, porn analysis is most always viewed in a subjective pattern that follows inductive thought. Look, the bottom line is that porn is a beast of a problem for humanity. I get that. However, it shouldn't be injected into all the problems of people everywhere, that resemble some subject in the given article.

Second, although women are often the victims, it doesn't mean that they don't play a role in all of this. Women might view porn much less than men, but they do in large numbers feed the visual man by participating in porn, and in more recognizable ways; walk around our communities three quarters naked.

Seriously, I am not making excuses for the darker side of the male mind. I am calling out the women (and sadly girls) who parade their bodies as a way to cater to male perversion and gain power over the man.

Males and females are different, but can equally play positive or negative role in any social issue.

kishkumen
American Fork, UT

I'm not really sure the Deseret News is really even a newspaper anymore. They seem to be more of an anti-porn editorial newsletter with a few articles sprinkled in here and there about Mitt Romney and Utah events. Anyway, like all of their other editorials about this topic, they never mention the coountless couples who love to watch porn together and have no issues with each other watching porn on their own time. I have many male and female friends who view porn when they are bored, and none of them expect their spouses or partners to look or act like the entertainers they see in porn. This editorial insults everyone's intelligence by making it seem like people look at forms of entertainment and then want their significant other to be like the entertainers. Do women watch basketball, and then break up with their husbands because their husbands can't do a slam dunk like Kobe Bryant?

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

Way to keep up the paranoia.

mark
Salt Lake City, UT

Pagan, funny, I haven't seen your posts in awhile. I was wondering where you had gone. Maybe we were just reading different articles. Anyway, it's good to see that you are still riling up the conservatives. Too funny.

It's also funny that Utah has the highest rate of online porn usage, even when controlling for factors. That's how legitimate studies are done 22oz.

Anyway, I'm glad I don't have to worry about the quilt and shame that religions try to foist on people. I don't know how you guys do it.

And now if you'll excuse me, I've got a website to go visit. . .

raybies
Layton, UT

While the loss of intimacy, or a negative female libido may be the initial "cause" why a man turns to pornography, I don't think that justifies the end result.

Look the article is actually quite good. It's stating that if you feel estranged and dissatisfied with your marriage, don't go getting involved with a fantasy that will only set you up for further dissatisfaction.

We men do this to ourselves (and women do it to themselves too... just consider the top selling Amazon book right now is Shades of Gray, a book about a completely unrealistic dominant male character who could never possibly exist in real life), we get bored or feel "unfulfilled" and rather than looking for a decent wholesome way to fill ourselves we go for a cheap thrill.

That cheap thrill comes with a steep price. You only feel more lousy! Just like a drug that's slowly destroying your body, pornography slowly kills the soul of your relationship with your wife.

Marriages can be saved, but they require loving work, not carnal distractions. If you want to enliven your marriage, watch a romantic comedy, perhaps, but not Porn.

Porn Kills True Love.

Tiger5
Cache county, USA

Porn is for people with zero self control.

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