DMC launches 'Out in the Light: women uniting against pornography'
What a fascinating debate! While personally I have a hard time with the
exploitation of women that accompanies the porn industry, I can also (by
experience in my current, very happy relationship with a wonderful man) see how
small amounts of porn can liven up intimacy in marriage when shared together in
a spirit of wanting to increase the mutual pleasure.The key word is
mutually. Perhaps the reason that so many women lose interest in intimacy is
because their partner has no idea how to make it extremely enjoyable for the
woman. It becomes then, a chore, something to keep the MAN happy. This is not
right, and too often a consequence of men viewing pornography- they see women as
only being the object of MEN's pleasure. Rather, an open and honest
dialogue about wanting to find ways to make the shared experience better for
BOTH partners can accompany a very small amount of porn, usually viewed
together. If BOTH partners are satisfied, they won't find it necessary to look
outside the relationship, but rather for ways to enhance what exists between the
two of them.
Serious problems are associated with pornography, which can be very damaging. I
only hope that the Deseret News' Out in the Light campaign will shed more light
than darkness on the subject. Time will tell.
Porn in any form is offensive to God and the Spirit. The prophets have said so
many times to stay completely away from. There is no justification for ever
getting involved with it. Free agency is a wonderful thing and those who choose
to be involved in porn in any way will see the consequences in this life and the
life to come. My advice.. follow the prophets!!
@ JoggleThank you for your response. Of course adults make their
own choices. If they're abiding by laws, they have the right to make those
decisions whether or not their neighbors agree with them morally.I'm
cautious, though, about people who may "give it a try" when they don't really
want too at their partner's insistence. I have one girlfriend who
did that and it wasn't a pleasant experience. If she'd stood firm on what she
was comfortable with, it would have saved her from some regrets.
This story was informative on some levels, but it focused on the spouse's
struggle rather than the addict's. Most religious addicts I know who struggle
with this desperately want to wipe it out of their lives. But as with all
addictions, there is a craving for it that at times seems uncontrollable. It's not as if everyone who views pornography is seeking to justify
their actions all the time and need to have it bashed into their heads that what
they are doing is wrong. On the contrary, many addicts are aware of the harm
they are causing themselves and others, and are praying daily and going to
recovery meetings trying to be free. Guilt-tripping an addict is not an
effective way to combat this.
@Californian#1@94131Research has shown that in countries where
pornography is banned, rates of sexual assualt against women are high and
women's rights are virtually non-existent.First of all, pornography
does not make everyone view women as sexual objects. Women are not forced to be
in pornography and they are paid for what they do. It is a job for them. The
actors and actresses are being paid and have most likely been made aware of what
will happen and therefore have given their consent. They, for the most part,
probably don't feel they are being degraded. Without the availability of women
(and men) who were willing to produce this kind of material the pornography
industry would come to a screeching halt, but obviously it hasn't.I,
personally do not approve of or like ALL forms of pornography and think some is
degrading, but I support First Amendment rights and the right of women to
voluntarily find employment in the porn industry.You should take
note that not everybody believes the same as you and your religion...so in that
respect...it does not apply and cannot be used as a justification.
Re: Jiggle 12:28 "Some people enjoy porn responsibly and others abuse it....I
fully understand both the good and the bad of pornography. " ...and
others who see no problem with porn as long as it's "used responsibly," whatever
that means. It's fun or a turn-on for some folks, it spices up their
relationship, blah blah blah.Here is what porn actually is. It is
humans selling their bodies for profit. Another word for that is prostitution.
It is men, women, even children having one of the most precious gifts God has
given us exposed to leering, drooling, and catcalling (and worse) by countless
strangers. It is people abusing the power of procreation by making it a public
spectacle. Some "performers" choose this occupation; others are exploited by
profiteers who draft young people into the business and are just as much pimps
as those who manage stables of hookers.In a few words, porn is the
degradation of human beings.Do you really want to use the
degradation of human beings as an "aphrodisiac"?
So because a few people get addicted we should all suffer? Perhaps the addicts
should take responsibility for their actions and quit pretending that porn is
their problem when it is obvious that their problems are far deeper.We always hear that 'freedom isnt free', but many never stop to think that one
of the costs of freedom is that people will sometimes make bad choices and some
will become addicted. Big deal, thats their problem.
To Bye Bye Butterfly from Joggle:Some people enjoy porn responsibly
and others abuse it. Some people become addicted to it and others don't. Should
it be banned for all just because some people are offended or have problems with
it in THEIR relationship? Wouldn't it take away our right to choose for
ourselves if it was made illegal? It's not a...it's all bad or all good issue.
It can be both harmful as well as beneficial depending on how you use it. YOU ASK: Was the person's spouse really as enthusiastic about the
pornography, or was the wife going along with it to please her husband?People here are ASSUMING I'm a male because I defend pornography to the extent
that I do. I fully understand both the good and the bad of pornography. I,
personally, as a woman, do not go along with anything just to please my husband.
I would not do ANYTHING if I didn't like or enjoy it. I enjoy pornography
sometimes with my husband as part of our relationship, but it is by no means a
central focus or an addiction.
@Neanderthal: And even if it were not in the Bible, so what? A living Prophet
has warned us against the evils of pornography more than once. Remember Amaziah
in the Book of Amos in the Bible? It does not go well with people who tell the
Prophet, "Don't preach here. Go preach somewhere else."All of the
stories shared here of those who have been addicted, and have recovered, are
wonderful. It is a testament to the healing power of the Atonement of the
Savior. Pornography is a grand lie, and as all lies fail eventually, so will
pornography. I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of
pornography being seen as an acceptable sexual outlet. Those who will continue
to defend it will find themselves buried by mountains of evidence that it is
The "negative" forces in this world are working overtime to convince us in
suttle and often blatant ways that pronograpghy is ok.These distortions
falsify the true meaning of love and its expression. These same
forces also know their efforts to exploite the human body for evil purposes can
and do create hard hitting additions. Recently, a family counselor attended a
conference and the following advice was given; "stay away" and "don't even" go
to pronograpghy sites...because they can become highly addictive...even with
only one initial viewing. The images are implanted in our mind and they are
difficult to erase.
@Neanderthal: Please don't say it's not in the bible. For your reference see
Matthew 5:28 or Romans 1:26-29 among other plain statements.
For many pornography starts out as a "more exciting" form of entertainment. It's
edginess and "naughtiness" holds appeal because it allows the individual to
choose to inject evil in a "controled" setting into their life. They feel
"dirty", and there's a spike in one's adrenaline that one can control evil.It's all a big selfdelusion. This need for control comes
from a lack of faith and purpose in life. It is easy to be detatched from
purpose with the stories we ingest in even the most banal forms of entertainment
today. We view stories of reprobates who save the planet, and over time their
sins are okay, because they saved the world. Why isn't our life as
exciting? Our children lose their confidence in us. Our spouses don't understand
us. Our bosses are tyrants. Our debts unsurmountable. Our circumstances dismal.
Our world politics do-or-die dangerous. Our potential undervalued. We matter so
little. Poor us. So we reach for something we can control, all the
while not recognizing how it reinforces everything we hate about us. Never recognizing, we're God's beloved children of infinite value and
"control" is an illusion.
Is porn the CAUSE of the divorce or is it the EFFECT because the couple
struggles? I don't think that has been adequately discussed. The article only
focuses on men's addiction. I once dumped a girl who was addicted to this
garbage though that wasn't the sole reason for dumping her. Women can get stuck
just as easy as men can, perhaps even more considering how they always want to
compare things. While I doubt porn killed these people's marriagages it
certainly was a factor and should be avoided.
I am a recovering sex addict and can attest to the harm and damage a pornography
addiction can do to a family, a spouse, and especially to the addict
himself/herself. My addiction began when I was very young and persisted into my
adult years. I thought marriage would solve all of my problems, but it only
made matters worse. I used lies to cover up the addiction, not because I wanted
to get away with it, but because I couldn't stand to hurt my wife. The marriage
eventually ended and I found myself disfellowshiped, divorced, and still
addicted. Even with all of the terrible consequences I still could not stop. I
decided to continue with the recovery work I had commenced during the marriage.
I began therapy again, 12 step work, and I discovered amazing books such as
Healing the Shame that Binds You and Don't Call it Love. After approximately
six years of recovery work I am experiencing freedom from the compulsion I had
never thought could be attainable. I am happily remarried, in full fellowship,
actively serving, and succeeding in my career. If you will never give up,
freedom is possible.
Porn is addictive. As is Sex. If it were not so, the human race would have
vanished long ago.Porn is considered bad only because those who
purport to be the deciders of what is good and bad have decided it's bad. If
they hadn't made that call it wouldn't be bad. Therein lies the root of the
cause of porn destructiveness.There is nothing in the Bible that
addresses the issue of porn.Too much porn and it becomes blase over
Re. Otis. "Moderation in all things" can be so deceptive. Should a person be
moderately honest? Moderately trustworthy? Moderately faithful to his spouse?
Just participate in a moderate amount of child abuse? Abuse drugs moderately?
When it comes to porn, "moderation" is just a convenient excuse. Total
abstenence is the very best behavior for the individual and the persons to whom
he will inevidibly cause pain.
I hope things work out for them. I have to say that picture in front
of the window is quite striking. Nicely done.
And blaming religion for demonizing sexuality and therefore pushes men to porn
is just so...sophomoric. Lets turn it around: how about the "progressive
thinkers" throughout history (you guys aren't the first ones to be free with
sex: the worshipers of Ashteroth beat you by about 5000 years) who have admitted
they can't live up to a moral code or are above it that have demonized religion
for the one and only reason that they don't want to grow up and be an adult.
Moral codes were set up by societies and religion for well and good reasons, the
foremost was to be civilized, and separate ourselves from the animals.I know
that my religion doesn't demonize sexuality, it celebrates it as long as it is
within the bounds of marriage. Again, there are tons of studies that show that
sex before marriage, especially at a young age, is harmful to the growth and
healthy development of youth. The possible explanation of why you see it as
"demonizing" is probably because you are so far out in left field, any attempt
at control looks like demonization.
There are mountains of eveidence and studies that show porn changes a man's
outlook on women; it objectifies them and makes them, in the man's mind, objects
for his pleasure. Many studies have found that if engaged in over time, men can
only see women as potential sex-toys, and can't interact with them as real
persons. STOP with the "porn made my relationship better" stuff: it would only
be in the area of sexual acts, not in interpesonal relationships. More studies
suggests that viewing porn is more addictive than heroin, as it releases
dopamine in the brain, and the individual becomes a dopamine addict. The article
mentions that porn addicts are very good at compartmentalizing -- all men are,
that's how they are built. Men compartmentalize and are visually excited, women
connect everything and are mentally/emotionally excited. Opening up to the
spouse does not make the addiction go away; it would be the acceptance by the
spouse that addresses that need that allows him to let go of the addiction.
Acceptance that you are an addict is one of the first steps toward healing. Not
acceptance of porn itself.
All who are here promoting the idea that a little porn is OK, especially if
shared with the spouse, are ignoring the other side of this equation. Where do
you think porn comes from? Someone has to create it. I think it was CBS that did
a series of reports on the incredibly harmful effects on those employed in the
porn-creation industry, and tracked the lives of several porn stars. The
industry is notoriously unconcerned about the emotional and physical welfare of
its workers. They lure youth into the industry with large paychecks and promises
of limited nudity, etc, and then cast people off to the side as damaged goods
when they are no longer appealing on film. According to this series, STDs are
rampant amongst porn workers, as "safe sex" is just not appealing on camera. The very nature of pornography, where women in particular are viewed as
mere objects, makes it difficult for porn's consumers to recognize or care about
the very real human cost occurring on the other side of the camera. So take a
step back, think about someone other than yourself, and lets reduce the demand
that drives this human tragedy.
Thanks for the article. I am sad for men and women who either have a problem
with pornography or are married to someone who has.What I find
amazing is that the women's movement was supposed to help women value
themselves, but in the last 40 years I believe that women are thought of as sex
objects more than ever, and that image is perpetuated through the media.
I have been living with the disease of pornography addiction for almost 11 years
now. My husband learned at a very young age to deal with uncomfortable feelings
and stress in his life by medicating with pornography. It was the deepest,
darkest secret in his life. The effect this disease has had on my life and the
life of my family has been excruciatingly painful. We have both
been in recovery for pornography addiction and co-addiction for almost 5 years
now. To those who are living this in their lives, I want to offer hope. There
is life after active pornography addiction. Though we are still living with
those effects in our lives, we are in a much better place now both individually
and as a couple/family. The road is painful but recovery is possible.
Happiness is possible.
Agree with truecougar.
First off these families are saying it was the cause of trouble in their
marriage. Secondly of course women can be hooked on this, have
addictions as well acted out virtually and IRL. But I think men wouldn't be as
comfortable going forward with the complaint that their spouse is doing this as
part of a series. Don't think those families don't exist.If the
relationship were healthy why would it be necessary?
@ CCB and JoggerOn forums discussing pornography I've heard people
stand in its defense. They've talked about how fun it is and how much they and
their partner enjoy it and how others should try it, too.I always
had a question.Was the person's spouse really as enthusiastic about
the pornography, or was the wife going along with it to please her husband.
As studies show that women react very differently to pornography
then men do, I think that should be carefully considered.
I remember hearing an interview that infamous serial killer Ted Bundy gave just
days before he was executed. He said his problems all began with
pornography. He started with "soft" porn. Soon it wasn't enough and his needs
escalated into violent perverted porn. Soon that wasn't enough and he actually
needed to act out in person, what he was viewing in his "fantasy" world. Don't let ANYONE ever tell you porn is harmless. Bundy didn't set out
to be a serial killer. Sadly a number of innocent women lost their lives to
this monster created out of pornography viewing.
My wife and I bought into the lie that pornography, if mutually shared, is not
necessarily evil. It is just that -- a big, fat lie. Thankfully, we were
rescued by a loving and forgiving Father in Heaven. "What's the Big Deal About
Pornography" by Dr. Jill Manning does a wonderful job of exposing the lie. I
have escaped an addiction that held me captive for 4 decades, destroyed my first
marriage, and very nearly landed me in prison. The key to escape? Regular
attendance at the temple, and the miracle of a changed heart.
I believe many people, at least men, have had issues with this because they look
to pornography to compensate for the lack of intimacy in their marriage. Some
people's sex lives are horrible and if either or both spouses do not work at
keeping that in good shape too, then there can be some real issues. If you are
living like a monk and are in a celibate marriage, and your spouse does not want
to do anything to fix it, then you either live with it, face divorce, or find
some other medium to fill the need. Unfortunately, that is what is happening
with so many men I know.
Pornography = selfishness and self-centeredness, as discussed in round-about
terms with those that "allow it" in their marriage. Pornography
doesn't only effect those that are married and are children of the offender, but
also effects the extended family as well, as people are trying to understand why
their loved-one is acting so weird, so secretive, and so volatile. It's a mind-melt, waiting to happen.
My husband and I have been serving as missionary group leaders in the LDS
12-step Addiction Recovery Program (ARP) for nearly 3 years in the Provo South
Mission. Our meetings include PASG meetings--gender specific meetings for
sexual addictions for addicts and their spouses, children, parents, friends. We
have seen so much progress in addressing this challenge through the
implementation of the ARP. These meetings are the most heavily attended of all
the meetings offered several times each week.THANK YOU for this
article. Everything which can be done to raise awareness--not only to the
issue, but to lower/erase the stigma attached in addition to the hope which
exists for addicts and their families is of prime importance. There is hope!!
All addictions start with "a little bit of (you name the object of your
affection) does not harm anybody or myself". How wrong! I won't get in an
accident if I speed a little bit because I am in control. I wont' crash the car
if I talk on the phone for a minute. I am not an addict if I drink a glass of
wine every day. Every single one of these reasonings are based on the supposed
fact that one is in control. And that's not entirely true. You may be in
control, but you won't know for how long. Why taking risks then?
Pornography is destructive to all because it glorifies sex outside of marriage.
Like alcohol, it is even more dangerous for some because some people, for a
variety of reasons, are more likely to become addicts. For men, pornography
fuels lust in a way that cannot be quenched, often leading to "acting out" and
sex outside of marriage. Even if it doesn't always result in that, it destroys
the marriage relationship over time. Of all the comments posted
above, I was most impressed with "truecougar's." I have served as an LDS bishop
and stake president and have learned a little about the destructive force of
pornography. A forgiving, loving, supportive wife can help, but overcoming a
pornography addiction requires earnest desire and deep faith (both of which are
wounded, sometimes mortally so, by a long addiction). It is beautiful to witness
when victory occurs, which can and does happen.
After my divorce.. one of the problems which was porn, I went back to school. I
took a Human Sexually class in which there were about 75 to 125 in attendance. I
remember one day the topic was porn and the professor said something to the
effect that there was nothing wrong with porn and then asked how many there had
viewed porn on a pretty regularly basis. I was shocked when about 3/4 of the
class raised their hands. He went on to explain how this is not not a big deal
and so on and so forth. It made me realize that even in college we need to be
mindful of what is being taught.(Yes, I know they are of age.. Just like they
are of age to drink and can do a report on Friday of the horrors of binge
drinking on Friday and the then go out of Friday and Saturday and do just
Re: CCB's comment @ 2:07:No, what destroys families is evil, not
just "guilt". (It sounds like you believe guilt is 'always' bad. You don't
talk much to your conscience anymore?, or have you turned that off?)So what is evil?Simple, anything that moves us away from God. If
it encourages you to believe in Him, obey Him, love Him, serve Him and His
children, then it is of God. If it has the opposite effect it is not.Pornography does none of those things and anyone who is honest knows this.Yes, the women shown in pornography are visually attractive (and there's
nothing wrong with physical attractiveness) but the bigger portion of "beaty"
and "goodness" involve more than physical attractiveness.Good
As someone who is susceptible to this type of addiction I'd like to make a
couple of points. My addiction is likely not to the level discussed by some of
the unfortunate women highlighted in the article.1)Hiding the addiction
from my partner is the most cutting aspect of the addiction. I have had many
discussions with her about this and those have been the #1 best solution for me.
Her understanding and continual help is priceless.2)Those who feel that
pornography is okay in marriage are really undermining the institution and
sanctity of marriage.3)Addiction to pornography is very real and very
difficult to overcome. It is much better never to get involved than to deal with
the consequences--even if it is done with our marital partners.4)Pornography is a vice just as alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs are. It is a
tool of those who seek to prey on others to make money. We see lighter forms of
it in every aspect of our society.5)Sex is good. Marriage relationships
are even better. We should never consider trading our most valuable
relationships for anything. Here lies the problem of pornography.
Dr. Laura Schlesinger, the noted author, radio talk show host, and psychiatrist
stated: "If there are problems in the marriage bedroom look for the result as
either divorce or pornography."Truer words were never spoken.
I agree with joggle. In every case I have heard of where pornography destroyed
a family or marriage, it was always because the involved person was doing it in
secret and not letting the other person know about it. Pornography, if viewed
and discussed openly in a relationship and NOT in secret is not a harmful thing
to said relationship. What destroys families is when one person engages in an
activity deemed evil in secret and never comes forward about it.
Dear ReidPhD,Thanks so much for posting the reference!
Study reference by VocalLocal was conducted by Dr Michael Twohig and Jesse
Crosby. It's titled "Acceptance and Commitment Therapy as a Treatment for
Problematic Internet Pornography Viewing" and was published in the scientific
journal Behavior Therapy, Volume 10, pp. 285-295. It was published this year,
re: The Caravan Moves OnI predict Joggle's wife or girlfriend
is in for a much rougher and much more painful road...
@The Caravan Moves OnI have already traveled down a long and winding
road for many years and it has for the most part been a happy experience! I've
already experienced much of life and have seen the guilt religion inflicts on a
person's sexuality that drives them to porn rather than away from it. Your lack
of talent as a predicter is very apparent! Instead of attacking me
personally....perhaps you should think about presenting a reasonable argument!
Moderation in all things. Good advice then and great advice now.
Saying that pornography is inherently dangerous is like saying that anybody who
drinks a glass of wine is bound to become a raging alcoholic. Sure, porn can be
abused just like anything else, but I agree with Joggle and VocalLocal: much of
the "damage" it causes comes from the guilt and the secrecy that people surround
it with. As for myself, me and my wife occasionally indulge and we've actually
found that it has improved our relationship. The inability and unwillingness to
open is what destroys marriages, not pictures on a screen.
I predict 'Joggle' is in for a rough and painful road...
Dear VocalLocal,That study sounds fascinating! I tried to find it
online, but I couldn't. Do you have a link or reference?
Utah State University recently did research on pornography addiction and found
once those addicted accepted the pornography use and stopped wrapping their
pornography use in religious guilt which demonized the activity they actually
started using the pornography less and less. Yes, there is sexual addiction and
there are those that regardless of the belief system will engage in sexual
activities that are harmful to themselves and others but demonizing sexuality
and pornography will only give addiction the fuel of guilt.
THANK YOU for writing this article. families that are in this situation can take
great comfort in knowing that they are not alone.
As I read this article I felt I had to add my comments that not all men are
addicted to Pornography. Women can be too. Being sexually abused as a child and
submitted to pornography I too am drawn to this evil. Although I don't consider
it an addiction my vices are sexual and love addiction of which I am in
recovery. However, in losing my marriage to it and wanting a change of heart I
turned to therapy and an amazing book called HE RESTORETH MY SOUL by Donald
Hilton M.D.. I also go to a 12 step program each week that the L.D.S. Church
provides. I have found that each day is a choice choosing between freedom of
heart and mind or staying in the chains of bondage. This experience has made me
a stronger person and helps me realize that even good people can stumble but if
they choose they can use their stumbling blocks into stepping stones of
Pornography is only a problem when it becomes habitual, and diverts a person
from developing a loving, personal and intimate relationship with their spouse
or signifcant other. Contrary to what many believe, pornography can be healthy
in a relationship. Most people think of pornography in the seediest of terms,
however not all material is like that. Pornography as part of a healthy
relationship can add to that relationship if it is mutually experienced and
openly discussed. So long as you are talking you are keeping your relationship
open and may very well learn about your partner's likes and dislikes as well as
your own. Before dismissing all pornography as evil one must consider that in
many relationships it can be beneficial. It isn't necessarily the material that
is bad, it is the abuse of it that is bad. Religion itself can be
viewed as harmful as pornography when it requires the repression of normal
sexual function and promotes guilt which leads to a dysfunctional view of sex
and lack of intimacy with their partner.This article is very
one-sided and doesn't address all sides of the issue of porography.
Once again, the man is the 'big bad evil'. Pornography is also made, viewed,
enjoyed and causes addiction in women also. This is especially true for young
women who are now quickly rising in the number of sexual crimes committed by
women.Yes, Porno is bad, it does cause addiction that is very
difficult for families to deal with, but don't focus on only the men. Women do
I commend Deseret News for publishing this article. I am looking forward for the
series. I was married to a man who cheated from day 1. When I found he had been
sleeping with several women, I asked him to change or leave. He chose the
second. I waited for a change but nothing happened. My mother in-law told me
"you should be patience. my husband was the same and now look at us together".
That scared me. I didn't want my children make their future spouses miserable as
I was. So, I divorced him. Raising my children by myself was not easy, but they
are healthy, good children. I remarried a good man and if I compare my two
marriages, it's like the night and day. I believe it's on us, the victims, to
cut the deal, to break the chain, not only for us, but for our children. It may
look like a sacrifize but at the end, it was not. And yes, my ex-busband still
cheats on his now wife.
Perhaps this should be part one of a three installment story. This is a
difficult topic for all involved but there can be hope for the future. May God
bless those who are fighting to make it through each day.
My husband has dealt with sexual addiction the entire time of our almost 30
years of marriage. I had to get help for myself and learn to not hold him in
resentment. He has a disease. But he is a child of God. I go to S-Anon which
is for partners of men who are in sexaholics anonymous which is a 12 step group
for sex addicts. It has not been an easy road. But I was abused by my dad so
was attracted to men that were unavailable to me emotionally and who were
addicted to sex. This is a famiy disease and if the family does not receive
help, the disease becomes generational and chronic. I have seen women who have
not recognized their patterns of being a victim (usually having been sexually
abused) divorce their sex addict husbands, just to marry or be in a relationship
quickly again to another sex addict. We are co-dependent and sick ourselves.
Unless I develop a relationship with God and heal that broken inner child, I
will continue my pattern of neediness, co-depenency and victimization.