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Comments about ‘Jewish, Mormon leaders issue joint statement’

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Published: Thursday, Sept. 2 2010 1:09 a.m. MDT

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Relocated Southerner

I agree with Lin. If you don't believe the baptisms are valid, why are you even upset? My mother, who was not Catholic, had my older sister in a Catholic hospital. When it was obvious the baby would die within a couple of days after birth, one of the sweet Catholic nuns "baptised" my sister, fearing for her eternal soul, and she apologetically came to my mother after the fact to tell her what she had done. My mother was never upset with this sweet sister; she had, after all, done what she did out of love and concern for my sister's soul. Since my mother did not believe in infant baptism or that the baptism was valid, she was never upset over it. I do have to commend the Church for taking the high road in this debate, however; it is better to keep a good relationship with these people now knowing that the Lord will provide for all of his children, one way or the other, either in this life or the life to come.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

mKSdd3,
That is the teaching I have generally heard.
How exactly are we supposed to perform the work for the millions of Native Americans who died of small pox. The millions who died in the Dominican Republic/Haiti due to diseases between 1492 and 1510, whose number is anywhere from 600,000 to 60 million. If we have no clue what numbers we are talking about, how do we do temple work that requires knowing names?

I have had ancestors doing family history work since the 1870s if not longer. Yet on other lines we can not even clearly identify all our ancestors in the 1870s. One of my ancestors who joined the Church (about 1850) my dad has spent three our more years trying to track down his parentage. He has tentatively identified the father and done the work for many on that side. He has yet to identify the mother.

At last check New Family Search identified having about 500 million names. If we make the false assumption there is no duplication, this is still less than one sixth the current world population.

Achieving all temple work has a long way to go.

Idaho Coug

The new temple work software is a wonderful advancement. Prior to this new technology a HUGE percentage of temple work being done was duplications. Some names were having work for them done literally dozens of times. I know work for the dead is primarily a service opportunity for those doing the work but this will GREATLY enhance efficiency and accuracy for those who have died.

I imagine those who have died and did not accept the ordinances under the old system saying something like, "for the fifteenth time, I said no thank you!" At least they can't say they didn't have a chance.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Zed,
You probably should have said "foment discord". I hope the contention-mongering lady has not managed to get an account on New Family Search.

Her goal is not just to divide Mormons and Jews, but to get everyone mad at Mormons. Of course, some of her angles that get spread in the blogosphere and the another Salt Lake paper (which is the main reason anyone has ever heard of the contention-mongering lady) are latched on with glee that makes no sense.

If some of the interpretations of the poll that found Mormons approve less of the current presidents performance than other religious groups, with "Protestants/others" having the next lowest performance approval (the later is best described as non-Mormon and non-Catholic Christians, including Episcopalians, Southern Baptists, Oriental Orthodox, United Methodists, Presbyterians and possibly even Unitarians) are correct than one of the CML's war cries is taken up illogically. Specifically, if Mormons disapprove of Obama's job performance because they think he is inherently "evil", than why would they do temple work for any member of his family?

Sorry if I am a bit oblique, but some people do not deserve name recognition.

The Rock

What kind of God would negatively impact the salvation of one of His children because of what somebody else did after they died?

If they are not baptized at first, they will be baptized at last. No doctrine has changed, only policy.

What a joy it will be for the Jewish people when they learn on the Mount of Olives that He who has wounds in his hands and feet is indeed the Messiah. Once they have this knowledge the Jewish people themselves will perform the baptisms for their kindred dead.

Very wise move. Avoid offending the chosen people of the Lord and let them experience the joy when they are ready.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Another reason for the animosity is that baptismophobia has spread to a belief that Christians in general are liars who seek to decieve.

This is represented by two false charges against The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that began with apostates but have been accepted by some Jews to justify their anger.

One is that the Church has such high growth rates because of baptisms for the dead. This is false. The Church does not count baptisms for the dead in convert baptism statistics. In fact, the Church seeks to not have people still on the records who are dead, and I know of a case of one person being listed on Church records as dead who was still alive.

Secondly, some claim that those who have had temple work done for them will be said in later times to have been Mormons. This is false. No responsible writer, commentor, reporter, historian or other figure would ever do this.

The fact remains Utah was the second state, only beat out by Idaho, to elect a Jew as governor.

Zed

JPL,

Good catch and good comments. Thanks.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

I think people must bear in mind the Jews who have been advocating on this issue do not understand, let alone embrace, the reasons for baptism at all.

People like me who can not recall when they first learned of baptism for the dead and have taught it in many ways at many points can not fully comprehend why people find it offensive.

However, we have to recognize that some people sincerely do, but that no one intends to give offense in doing it.

If those who dislike it would accept that offense is not intended, and those who support it would accept that groups like the Gathering of Holocaust Survivors have sincere disagreements with it, whether or not they are logical or informed by an accurate understanding of the past, we can move forward.

The myth of te Holocaust as motivated by Christian hate of Jews, the myth of "anti-semitic passages" in the New Testament, and myth of those killed in the holocaust being mainly a religious people, have sunk deep. The reality is different, but will require going beyond out-of-context quotes and falsely represented photos. Till then we just need to be civil.

CB

It never hurts to maintain PEACE.

Bubble

In response to a few of the posters: You're right - how dare the Mormon Church act in a Christlike manner and show respect for fellow humans and their religious beliefs!

The shame of it!

bikeboy

Good news. I'm thankful for my baptism into the Kingdom at age 8, and for the opportunities I've had over many years to participate in proxy baptisms, one way or another. No work is more important, IMO, other than personally living a life fit for the Kingdom.

FOR THE RECORD...

I'm a devout, practicing "Mormon." However, if you would like to do ANYTHING on my behalf, based on your own set of beliefs, that you feel might improve my chances of salvation and eternal life, I'll gladly accept those efforts, and sincerely thank you for your concern. (Frankly, I can't understand why our Jewish brothers and sisters wouldn't be grateful for the service, once it's been explained to them. Either it's a fraud, in which case nothing is lost. Or it's valid, and anxious recipients will be forever grateful.)

Not_Scared

The photograph is interesting. Where did all the leafs go in the background?

h3tec

It's good to get along! I am a Mormon convert and I think it is very respectful to do what another religion requests. What we believe is ours. Others don't have to believe that, but this shows the strength of the ordnance. Why would anyone object if they thought it to be incorrect or without power?

patriotandmore

Baptism for the dead was practiced in the Bible.
"Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" (1 Cor. 15:29, NASB).

Bucket

I fail to see why anyone would complain. Do they really believe they will lose members to the LDS after death? We should be grateful that LDS members (or anyone for that matter) sincerely cares about the eternal opportunities available to all people. If you don't believe in this religion,how in or out of this world does Temple work hurt you or your family? What if you found out you or your grandparents were prospective Muslims on some computer system in Iran and that a cleric had pretended to be you for a brief ceremony? (It certainly beats them wanting to kill you!) Would you freak out? Apparently some people would. Why don't you spend your time trying to get off junk mail lists. Make sure you're on the "DO NOT CALL" list for telemarketers, but don't worry about membership in a religion which may take effect only after you're dead with your permission. If it so happens to be valid, wouldn't you want to be in the true plan of redemption? I would, but I'm not holding my breath.

Doctor

Onlyin the LDS church can this be considered a service opportunity. Feed the hungry.

Andersonsue

I have Jewish ancestory and my husband is a converted Jew to Mormonism. Lighten up Jews! Who cares.

skeptic

@John Pack Lambert, and what race do you think the Jews are?

Still Jim

Hillary Clinton said she would support a lawsuit against the church with respect to this subject. She also offered to represent them. Of course since there is little record of her ever winning anything we have to believe the church probably would have been able to continue. It is best in this case to try to get along with your neighbor. Now my neighbor who cut a hole in the back yard fence...

DrW

I agree with Lin, and never understood what the fuss with the Jews was all about.

After all, would any of us be upset if some primitive tribe in a desert or jungle was passing bones around a campfire in our name and intoning religious chants? That would have nothing to do with our own lives, and neither does baptizing the dead have anything to do with our lives now.

I have an extremely nasty and mean Mormon nephew, who is always threatening to baptize ME after I am dead! So what? My main knowledge of the usefulness of baptism is ANY form is that all over the U.S. one can usually get baptized -- complete with baptismal certificate -- for a contribution of as little as ten dollars -- and have whatever name and birth date one chooses on the certificate. It is an uncertain world, and who knows when it will be useful to get across a border under a different name and age?

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