Comments about ‘Education commitment’

I have a dream: Someday Utah's education funding will only be second worst in the nation.

There is no evidence that spending on education equates in any reliable way to outcomes. This has always been the case. Teachers, parents, and dedicated learners (pupils) = success, not $$$. The minute we added administers, police, dropped dress codes, added federal mandates that had little to do with educating pupils we left concern for education behind and started administering not educating.

You get what you pay for, and having lived in other states that pay more, and have more opportunities for students, our kids here are getting the shaft.

For most of human history the average person spent a large part of each day trying to get enough food on the table to keep the family from starving. Hunting, farming, and gathering food was back-breaking work.

Today, the average person can buy more than enough nutritious food to keep the whole family fed and healthy with the money earned from about 1 hour of work each day.

What happened? Advancements in machinery, transportation, irrigation, and other processes in food production allow a single farmer or rancher to produce as much food as it once took hundreds of people to do.

Why don't we have the same kinds of advancements in education? Granted, teaching children does not lend itself to the same mechanized processes as food production, but with computers, video, communications and other high tech products, why can't a few great teachers use these tools to share their knowledge with hundreds or thousands of students? Todays teacher should be able to teach what it once took a dozen teachers to do.

Just like food, we should get a lot more education for less money these days.

When Math teachers have 40+ students in their class - DNews how are they going to reach each student?
How are they going to access learning?
How are they going to reteach what was not learned to individual students?

Come on Dnews the truth is that Utah conservative leaders do not want good quality public schools.

Tell us the truth do not give us a spin story!

@Kge: you are simply living on another planet. On THIS planet, there is an obvious, prima facie, self evident difference between teaching, mentoring, tutoring, reviewing, grading, and nurturing 36 kids versus doing the same for 14 over one 7-hour period of time. Or are you too math challenged to see that?

When Math teachers have 40+ students in their class - DNews how are they going to reach each student?
How are they going to access learning?
How are they going to reteach what was not learned to individual students?

Come on Dnews the truth is that Utah conservative leaders do not want good quality public schools.

Tell us the truth do not give us a spin story!

Hey...if we listen to you people, we can be New Jersey, and spend $20,000 per pupil and STILL not teach them anything.
You want education to improve? Get parents more involved in education. Not just schooling, but education. When parents teach their kids the value of learning, they learn. Ask yourself this: When was the last time my children saw me reading a book just for the heck of it? The answer to that one question would probably tell me how well your kid is doing in school.
Don't blame the lack of money. Don't blame the teachers. Look in the mirror.
We have raised a generation of people that can neither think, nor write, nor speak. The enemy of education isn't funding. It is us.

Only politicians and clueless people think that class size and funding don't affect performance.

It is obvious they go hand in hand.

Utah does well thanks to the dedicated teachers, students, and parents but we could be off the charts if we took funding seriously instead of doing the minimum to get by each year.

It is clear that the percentage of spending is dropping dramatically.

Spin it how you want but my kid's classes are bigger than ever with teacher more tired than ever.

It is just sad.

We don't need to go crazy but $1,000 more per child would go a LONG way to helping out the poor souls that go into the profession.

Not to mention our kids.

Is $$$ the only possible sign of commitment?

The concept that money equates to educational success is, of course, false. The idea that money has no bearing on educational success is equally false. Comparisons with high cost, urbanized states are not relevant.

Within any system, more money brings more resources (teachers, books, facilities, etc.). Whether these would be used efficiently or not is a question that can be debated otherwise. Obviously, motivated students and teachers can do more with better resources. Also obvious is that poorly motivated students and teachers won’t be able to do much with added resources.

I see many comments on these boards that indicate that Utah has had some educational success with relatively limited resources, indicating a good pool of students and teachers. On that basis, I would assume that more resources would bring some educational benefits.

This editorial indicates that the resource pool is shrinking. You can only stretch your resources so far — only get so much added efficiency — only take so much out before you have to give something back. If not, you eventually strain the system to the breaking point and problems will follow.

@The Judge | 10:34 a.m. Aug. 27, 2010 - I think I am on your side of this argument, but I can't agree with what you are saying. I have a college education, I do home work with my kids, and I do read book by myself and with them all the time. Evan with all of that my children still strugle in school. I will continue to help them but I don't think poor students can blame the parents most of the time. That falls into the trap of blaming others for your own problems.

@Oh Please and Charles History - Where are you seeing 30 - 40 students in a class? The Utah average is around 22 students. Don't complicate this complicated issue by putting out inaccurate data. There isn't a single class in any of my children's school that have classes of that size accept for a Choir class and that is by the teachers choice.

We need to look at ways to better educate, and not look at calling for more money. We must be able to do more with less. It is the only way we can survive.

Re: "mkSdd3" 12:02

What school are you talking about?

The state average is using every person in the building, (cooks, janitors, administration) everyone is counted into that mix.

My child, in her math class has students sitting on the floor because there are not enough desks in the classroom.

You better look around and see before you talk.
If you would go to any eduction instruction in the country they think that the Utah education system is a joke. Watch a instructional video that teaches teachers how to teach - their class size is 10 - 15 students.

I have lived in many other states and by far this state does less for their children they any other.

Charles History | 12:31 p.m.

You are the one who is speaking falsehoods. Utah's education system is not seen as inferior by everyone.

Fact...
More Utahns to on to College than any other State (that's a good sign).

Most of our students do exceptionally well on National Tests.

The Utah Education System has been looked to as a roll model by many leaders in education.

Remember when Terrel Bell (a Utahn) was asked to be America's Secretary of Education? It wasn't because our system was the worst.... it was because it was the best, and the rest of the nation wanted to emulate it.

Our funding is often laughed at (by the left), but our results are usually above average and many states come here to find out how we do it.


YOU may laugh at us... but don't assume you represent everyone.

Charles hit it right on the money.

The official reporting numbers include any adult in the building divided by the number of students.

So the counselor that doesn't officially teach anybody counts as a teacher.

In my junior high classes this year I have 33, 32, 34, 32, 32, 32. I have enough chairs for 32.

Think of that many 7th graders running around your neighborhood.

Do you think your neighborhood could handle that many?

Would the number of kids make a difference?

Of course it would.

Money doesn't make all of the difference but it definitely helps.

RE: "2 bits"

What falsehood?

Our education system works okay because: Lots of white students, Our Mormon culture, small communities.

Please explain where you get the idea the our education system is a roll model - by the way if it was a roll model, why does the conservatives leadership blast it every chance they get.


So please tell the rest of us: Who wants to copy us? Are they paying our education leadership to come to their states to teach them?

I always thought Utah schools were great. FYI, I have lived in 4 states.

Charles History | 12:31 p.m. Aug. 27, 2010

If you are going to "education instruction", then I can assume that you are associated with the teaching profession. That makes you biased. At least Utah Teacher is up front about why he is biased. And if the educational videos are showing teachers how to instruct 10 - 15 students then that could be the problem. There is no where in the country that has a class room size of 10 students. It will never happen.

Everybody wants to be paid more for the work they do. If I had a public forum and a large union behind me, I would be shouting for a raise also. Truth is your salary comes from a portion of my salary. I value education and want to help teachers out, but when everyone is stretching every penny, we can not turn to money to find solutions to education problems. We must start thinking outside the box to come up with better methods to do more with less.

Teachers are Dedicated Professionals!

but,

There is a big diffrence between teaching 16 students and teaching 32 students and in the state of Utah 32 students is a small class load.

Utah education has dedicated professionals, strong community support, good students. This what makes school good in our state.



If education was a priority by the conservative leadership instead of a whipping post, things would be great in this state. (Re: Doctor 1:55)

(tongue in cheek)Since we are often told that education will get better if we pay the teachers more, implying that the best teachers are not being used now since the salary is too low, I suggest that we fire all current teachers, double the teacher salary, hire half as many of the "better teachers", then double the class size (the better teachers can handle it!). That way, we can improve education at no additional cost.