Comments about ‘Groups ask Utah attorney general to discard 'the list'’

'The list of nearly 1,300 illegal immigrants was compiled by two Department of Workforce Service employees. The state has fired one, and began termination of the other.' - Article


Since when is information gathered ILLEGALLY...

able to be used as evidence for court prosocution?

It nonsense NOT to use the list. Its like saying if I know my neighbor is a robber, wifebeater or into selling drugs, I should not give that information to law inforcement. If we know a person is doing something illegal, it does not matter who informs the law. The list NEEDS to be USED.

The list was only accessed by those two individuals illegally. The list wasn't CREATED illegally. The gov't obviously has had the list for some time.

Why wouldnt we use this list to go after the prosecute the known criminals? The list was already in the possession of govt leaders before the two state employees accessed it, so them accesssing it has nothing to do with anything.

Let's use this great list that the STATE ALREADY HAD PUT TOGETHER to go after those who don't believe our laws to be of any importance.

Seems like if laws were broken to obtain the information it would not be admissable in court.

Fair enough, let's get rid of "the list."

Now, let's get DWS busy checking their records to find likely cases of fraud and evidence of illegals present in Utah, and start prosecutions immediately.

There are at least two former DWS employees who have figured out how to do this, if we need to hire consultants.

The state should be checking for criminal activity, or presence of illegals in every agency, every day.

I remember a group of polygamist in Texas a few years ago getting prosecuted for crimes that were discovered after a fraudulent report was made to authorities. Where were these groups then? Were they worried that a false report was being used to take children from families?

If these groups want to be taken seriously then they must be consistently vocal when others are being unfairly treated.

If the people were breaking the law to obtain services illegally, they should be punished.

We would punish US citizens for using fake social security numbers.

@mkSdd3

And how many were found guilty using illegally obtained infomation? The same result will happen here. Illegally obtained information is not allowed in court. If the AG wants the info, he can go before a judge and obtain a warrant if a judge deems it legal. Otherwise it is a huge waste of money to fight a battle you know you will lose just to prove a point.

Just how was it obtained illegally? The people have not been charged, their defense of whistle blower has not been heard. And a court case would bring the names forward in a public light?

If Americans are being treated different than people here illegally, then we have a probably discrimination case against the Federal rules.

The state needs to go after those who are getting services illegally, at the very least. Otherwise their are law suits that could be filed.

Throw the list away?

It came from a database. Do you want them to throw away the DWFS database as well?

So they thow the list away. All they have to do is write the query again... and the databse will spit out the same report!

What does throwing away the list do?

the point many miss is the state HAD the information. Did the state gather it illegally? I doubt it. Did the employees who disseminated it access it illegally? Probably so.

Since the state had the information legally, they can use it to prosecute those using false SS numbers or otherwise committing identity theft, barring any idiotic rules that prevent them from doing so. If such idiotic rules exist, they should be repealed.

I'm so tired of the ACLU. Sick and tired...

It's crazy to think that anyone's legacy will be defending same sex marriage and selective free speech cases when it involves the LDS church. All the ACLU does is promote and defend practices that are ripping apart our country. It's akin to defending someone who robs a person's house for emotional distress when the owner chases after him/her with a bat! It seems ridiculous right? Not according to the ACLU...

Why are there people who think this way? Why do we have organizations who think that the victims are really the perpetrators and those committing crimes should be the ones being defended?

We can't be bullied by them! The writers of the Constitution and those who gave their lives for this country deserve more! Down with the ACLU!!!!!

Quit discriminating against the US citizen and let the illegal go free. This is a cause for deportation. How many years would we stay in prison for stealing an SSN number? 10 years? I think the state knew that those SSN numbers were fake. I think the workers were told to overlook that.

Those who are in this country illegally have no legal status, so it doesn't matter how the information was obtained. If they are here illegally, they need to face the law and suffer the consequences, they knew the risk when they broke the law. I think the state should be doing more of this, not less, can we please clean things up a bit, laws are being broken, and law abiding citizens are paying dearly for it.

Disregard the list?

Look, it was stupid to let you walk right into our country ILLEGALLY. It would be stupid, now that we know you're here to just look the other way.

NO!

The bottom line is the government did not OBTAIN the information unlawfully. The information was given voluntarily to the DWS. If the information given was knowingly false and they intended to illegally obtain benefit from it, they have committed fraud.

The State should prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Try them for their crimes, and if they are found guilty, let the judge or jury decide the extent of their punishment.

In 2007, the Department of Workforce Services and the Utah Attorney General's Office announced that they had identified 20,000 Utahns who had their Social Security numbers being used by someone else for employment purposes.

Workforce Services also informed the legislature that it had identified 1,626 employers who were paying salaries to the Social Security numbers of children under age 13.

So what did the Attorney General do with that information?

How many individuals were charged with and prosecuted for identity fraud which is a felony under Utah law?

How many of the 1,626 employers were held accountable for sacrificing Utah children for profits?

How many of the 20,000 victims were actually notified that their Social Security numbers were being fraudulently used?

What help did the Attorney General, Voices for Utah Children, the Department of Workforce Services, the Salt Lake Chamber, Chief Burbank, etc. extend to the 20,000 victims of this major felony?

Are government officials protecting identity thieves by refusing to use information available?

@ Chris B | 2:56 p.m. Aug. 26, 2010
I think you're operating on a common - yet understandable - misconception, and it's really a matter of semantics. The employees COMPILED the list from data DWS already had; DWS didn't have the list per se, just the data. But it is correct that if they have the data, the same exact search criteria can be input and the same - or even more extensive - list can be compiled again.

So throw the list away, by all means. Let's just have the fortitude to reconstitute it and use it based on the sound LEGAL principle of "inevitable discovery"; then no judge or activist lawyer can overturn it on grounds that it was illegally obtained.

As for "Lincoln Nehring, policy director of the Utah Health Policy Project, said using the list to pursue families will lead many not to seek important state-sponsored health coverage". GOOD! Those here illegally are not supposed to be getting "important state-sponsored health coverage". That's been a huge drain on many states' budget for years, and it's time for it to stop.

Definitely ignore the list and recheck all people in the database. That will likely show even more lawbreakers. Nothing wrong with finding those people and stopping their benefits, as well as maybe arresting a few.

Re: "Using information that was obtained in an illegal fashion . . . flies in the face of long-standing criminal practice . . . ."

This statement is simply not true. And those making this laughably false and frivolous statement know it.

Activist judges in the last century created an "exclusionary rule" not mentioned in or required by the Constitution, to punish police for purported 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment violations.

But nothing in either the Constitution or "long-standing criminal practice" requires creation of a new exclusionary rule in this case, which does not involve violation of illegals' constitutional rights.

There is no constitutional right to get away with a crime because you were turned in by another criminal.