Actually, since some of the staff of LDS Employment Services is missionaries,
I would go as far as to say no one knows the whole cost, because how can you
count the cost when you have people donating time?I would expect
President Monson or someone under him has at least a report saying the annual
cost of LDS Employment Services, whether or not they could recite the figure if
asked. How high up or low down in the Church structure this is
known I do not know. Also the close interaction between LDS Employment Services
and Deseret Industries might make the relative budgets hard to decipher. For
example, when you have various entities of the Church sharing a parking lot, and
there is cost to maintaining the parking lot, clearing snow, etc., and you want
to calculate the total cost of some sub-entity of the Church, how do you do it?
As an expansion of my last post, there are many members who barely make it by
on tithing.However, the other assumption of the Humanitarian
Services budget is too small snarkers is that this is the sum total of
humanitarian services the Church offers.As far as I can tell,
donations from the Church to aid in operating food banks, like the $1.5 million
one recently given to a food bank in Ogden are not part of the Humanitarian
Services budget.Exactly why when calculating the Church's
"charitable spending" some exclude fast offering related items is a good
question. When they try to compare the percentage of the Church's
budget that goes to "charitable spending" and that of various companies they
ignore the crucial question of what is and what is not counted. I have yet to
see any evidence that any of these individuals have analyzed the data enough to
be using the same rules, and they always avoid explaining in depth what
charitable spending is.Also, since LDS Employment Services is open
to all without any membership screening or cost, this is a charitable service,
the cost of which few know.
Independent I think your line "someone who makes nothing, pays nothing" is
importantn. One can be a full tithe payer while paying no tithing. The post-disaster assitance by the Church is largely funded by donations to
LDS humanitarian services. It may be that some of the cost of maintaining the
storehouses to have the supplies on hand (which where they are used by Church
welfare is actually more expensive than just purchasing and distributing the
food without a storehouse, I know this from discussions with our local director)
comes from other sources, but the purchase of supplies to meet the disaster, and
of supplies to restock the storehouses so they are ready for the next one
largely comes from the LDS Humanitarian Services donations.This is
one of the reasons why attempts to say anything about the size of the
humanitarian services budget on a per-member basis are odd. Many members only
give tithing and fast offerings and never donate further down the donation
form.Beyond this, there is the Perpetual Education Fund which is
another worthwhile use of money, so the per-member donation rate to Humanitarian
Services needs to be considered in this light.
JayJay: You chose to pay your tithing.
AZnewser, I think there are two issues, actual distribution and
disbursement of funds and accounting of funds.With fast offerings
the real funds are not kept at the ward level. However I am under the
impression that fast offerings verses expenditures from fast offerings are both
recorded and weighted against each other both at the ward and stake levels.If your stake has lots of quite affluent members, with good jobs and
homes, and is taking in less in fast offerings than it is disbursing, it would
not be surprising if members of the high council counsel ward members in their
monthly visits that they need to consider whether in the light of the blessings
the Lord has given them, they are giving enough in fast offerings. I can say so
from personally having heard such counsel back in the mid-1990s when our stake
was a place of relative affluence.On tithing the Church does not
keep accounts on how much tithing money your ward or stake consumes verses how
much it takes in. So while the physical distribution of the money
is centralized in both cases, only in fast offerings is income even tracked.
Not_Scared, But Christ tells us to let our light so shine that others
seeing our God works will glorify our Father which is in Heaven.
Mom of 2: We are not forced to pay tithing.
"I know of no other church that withholds salvation based on donation. Is that
really voluntary?"First of all, donation is 10 percent. 10 percent
means 10 percent, so there is no minimum amount of money that must be donated
for "salvation" as you put it. Someone who makes $1 Million/year pays $100K in
tithing per year. Someone who makes $10K in a year pays $1K, and someone who
makes nothing, pays nothing. All have equal access to salvation through the
Redeemer, Jesus Christ. It's a question of faith, and keeping the commandments.
Jesus said "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Do other churches preach
salvation without faith and keeping the commandments? If so, what power do you
think they have to even offer salvation? The LDS church could offer all of the
saving ordinances they practice to anyone, regardless of their willingness to
obey the Word of God, but what good would it do? Salvation cannot be bought, but
it can't be given to someone who won't receive it either. Follow Jesus and
receive salvation. Don't follow Jesus and don't receive salvation. It's your
I have no problem with (and in fact enthusiastically support) wealth
redistribution when A)priethood authority is doing the redistribution, and B) I
am not compelled by people with guns under the threat of confiscation of my
property or prison to contribute. I have a big problem with wealth
redistribution when it is administered by corrupt politicians, of any party, who
have shown time and again that they are more concerned about themselves and
their own interests than yours or mine. I cannot see how anyone would be
comfortable giving the Federal Government as much money as they ask for. Let me
put it this way, LDS Liberal: Are you comfortable giving George W. Bush as much
money as he asks for?
When you help a dying person, why does it matter how you obtain the relief?
Hmm, I don't know. Big moral dilemma. Defending people of all nations from
hunger, and other natural disasters is a moral virtue and most churches are
always there to assist.
You can donate to the LDS Emergency Response Fund on the LDS Philanthropies
@ Bill in Nebraska, you are inncorrect about Fast offerings not going to SLC.@ Doctor "I know of no other church that withholds salvation based on
donation. Is that really voluntary?" Which church are you refering to? If the
LDS church, then you would be mistaken.
@ Mom of 2 There are "many mansions" in Gods kingdom. So no, no one will be
denied, but will be judged by Christ and awarded a "mansion" based on your
I think what the Church is doing is wonderful and very Christian of them.Re: being "forced" to pay tithing...well, of course nobody holds a gun
to your head when you fork over that 10%. But in a sense you ARE forced to pay
tithing, at least if you want to be sealed or do anything else in the temple.
You must be a full tithe payer for this. I just can't picture Christ standing
at the entrance of Heaven and denying anybody who wants to follow Him in simply
because they didn't donate 10% of their income to any church.
To "LDS Liberal | 3:55 p.m." hint, conservatives don't mind helping other build
weath, or even giving to charity. Studies show that conservatives give more
than liberals do to charitble organizations that actually help people. Liberals
give more to symphonies, art galeries, and other high society venues.It isn't the giving and redistributing of wealth that is the problem, it is
forcing people to do so that is the problem. If you actually bothered to learn
some history, you would find that capitalism has done the most to redistribute
wealth and bring people out of poverty than socialism.
Give Me A Break: Church leaders are not paid.
There will always be need. The challenge for us is to see if we will help
donate the needed funds. Lets give more to help others. Those in need do need
it more than we do. Trust me on that.And in case you missed it, the
church doesn't use either fast offerings or the humanitarian funds to fund
leaders salaries, to build churches, or to pay ministers. 100% goes to the
Doctor: The church does not force its members to donate to anything.
@ Bill in NebraskaYour description of church fund distribution is not
completely accurate. All church funds are gathered to SLC. There is no "going
into the red" on fast offering funds, as there is no holding funds over from
good months/years to be spent in lean times. My Stake President has
instructed us to not outspend our intake, but there are exceptions... my ward
has spent more than we have received to this point this year. We do not share
our burden nor our largess with our Stake, but with the church as a whole.
During my years in the Papillion, NE Stake, it was the same as it is now here in
AZ. Regardless, isn't the church financial system fantastic!
I have read over and over that the humanitarian fund is funded by fast offerings
but I don't think that is correct. I am fairly sure that it is funded through
donations given specifically for humanitarian aid--both in kind and monetary. I
am fairly sure the fast offerings the Church collects is less than is necessary
to take care of the temporal needs of the members of the church and that feeding
our own fatherless and widows has to be subsidized by tithe dollars.
I would like to clarify something to all Church members. The article states
100% of Humanitarian Aid comes from those funds. It doesn't state that it comes
from fast offerings. Fast Offerings are not given to Salt Lake. These funds
are maintained at the Ward/Branch level for use within the boundaries of that
particular Ward. If a Ward/Branch is in the red for fast offerings then the
Stake pulls from other units in the Stake. Only when the Stake is unable to
provide for itself is anything pulled from the rest of the Church for fast
offerings.The money that we donate to humanitaria aid is what is
being used to support this aid. It doesn't come from tithing nor does it come
from Fast Offerings.None of this money is forced upon its members.
However, you can't be a member in good standing and not be paying 100% tithing.
The decision and the blessings that come from it is entirely based upon one's
Wow, so many people jumping in and stating as fact things about Church finances.
The fact is the Mormon Church does not release specifics of its
finances to anyone. There are very few people who actually *know*
which bucket what money comes out of.
When you are in the service of your fellow men you are in the service of your
Call me old school. Charity should be made in private. We shouldn't devalue our
charity by advertising it.
I know of no other church that withholds salvation based on donation. Is that
@ LDS Liberal. Are you really LDS?? Go back a read about satan's plan (forced)
and Christ's plan (voluntary). Then figure out which way that GOD, the Father
of us all, went with those plans. So maybe he really doesn't "see it that way
too". He even had 1/3 of his children cast out, so I assume he felt pretty
strongly about it. And BTW - I don't think he sees it your way.Coercion is one of the biggest sins because it removes agency, which was
fought for in a war, from the person - no different than satan doing it.
Communisim, socialism, etc. are just another form of coercion. If you didn't
vote for it before why are you voting for it now?
LDS Liberal always makes me happy :0)
@Dave from TaylorsvilleIt's pretty easy to show up late to the party
and make a snap judgment about people without knowing what has happened over
time. Speaking of "truly non-Christian postings," consider these
words of Christ: "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy
brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?""Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then
shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye."I won't ask you to print it and bring it to your Bishop because that
would be condescending and judgmental of me, and not how *I* would want to be
treated, so it won't be how I treat you.
JayJay | 5:12 p.m. And so there is some sort of moral judgement to
say that the when the church provides humanitarian assistance - it is good and
right and pleasing to God to help our fellow mankind.And it is
immoral and repugnant somehow when America does it.I don't care how
it gets there, or who gets the credit for it.I'm just over joyed
that I had something to do with it regardless WHO gets the credit for it.BTW - I think GOD, that Father of us ALL, sees it that way too.He knows the intentions of MY heart.I will pray for you.
TO: xscribeYour questions were honest and well asked. As for
Tlingit and JayJay. Please excuse their wayward and truly non-Christian
postings.TO: Tlingit and JayJayFrom reading your
postings, it appears that both of you are LDS. If so, I suggest that you:1. Print out a copy of @xscribe's posting, and. . .2.
Print out a copy of your posting, and. . .3. Take it to your
Bishop. He will sit down with you and have a long discussion.
@LDS LiberalDid you know that paying tithing, fast offerings and giving to
the humanitarian fund is voluntary? You should if you are really a member.
Little different than forced redistribution of wealth. I think it's great to
help those in need. However when my money is taken from me and given to those
who don't deserve it in order to buy votes, I take exception to that. You
should be able to see the subtle difference between how the government operates
and the LDS Church operates.@xscribePerhaps if you are
sensitive to ridicule you shouldn't be dishing it out.
@xscribeYep, I gave you a LITTLE taste of your own medicine. Will it make you think before finding fault and others tearing down? Probably not, but at least from now on I'll know that that you didn't
like it when it was done to you, yet you still choose to do it to others. And good for you for giving to charities. I'd be more impressed if you
weren't so anxious to brag about it and turn it into a competition, but good for
you nonetheless. BTW, to clarify, it's not atheism I find
distasteful, it's the lurking around for opportunities to tear down others that
I think is sad. Not believing in God is one thing, but tearing down
those who do is another. I just cannot see anything healthy about
always looking for the bad in a people. For example, why can't you
just be glad that Church Church members give like this, rather than look to find
fault with their system for collecting donations? Atheist and
antagonist are not synonyms.
I hope none of the ultra-conservatives don't see this another example of the
redistribution of their wealth - story.You know -- Haves,
giving to the have nots.And not having to work for it or have to pay
it back, ect.
xscribe: the money comes from the church members. We are not forced to give our
money to cause.
What?! No put downs by LDS hatefuls, or complaints by the darn ACLU about
something they can dream up to gripe about--like alterior motives for being
helpful?! I love how the Church is always one of the first on the spot to
extend help and support after a tragedy, what a great example to others.
Thanks to those who chose to explain rather than ridicule, as Jay-Jay did. Hope
it made them feel better.
I love that my money goes to relieve suffering in the world and I
whole-heartedly approve any tithing that ends up in a situation like this. But,
welfare comes from our humanitarian aid and fast offering donations...We know
where our money goes and we spend a lot of time making supplies for emergency
relief. Which will end up in Pakistan as well as other places. Thanks for
pointing out the possible conspiracies, but I think we're pretty happy with the
church's relief efforts. And the "Church" is really us. Because it is staffed
by volunteers, like me.
read this other story cure the cause dont get sick.The taliBan dont want
no one to help Flood Victims/or else> world of nations section?
xscribe- Fast offerings are one of the big sources of welfare donations for the
LDS church. Church members are asked to fast once a month and donate the money
that would have been spent on the food - and encouraged to do more when
possible. There is also a humanitarian fund that members (or nonmembers)can
donate to. This is all volunatary, as is paying tithing.They
members also voluntarial work on welfare farms, canneries, factories, etc. to
produce food that is used in the welfare system. I have worked on a church hay
farm where the hay went to a church dairy, a church grape vinyard where the
grapes went to a church cannery to be made into juice and jam, know our ward
assignment is at a flour mill where we clean it and then work to produce bread
flour, cake mixes, etc. The LDS church owns beef producing operations, the
largest in Florida I've heard and even one in Hawaii. So now maybe you have a
picture of where it comes from. You should go on a tour of welfare square.
xscribe, yours is a fair question. The LDS Church accepts different
categories of donations, including tithing, fast offerings, and humanitarian
assistance. Each donation is voluntary and is used by the Church for their
designated purposes when needed. It's likely in the case of Pakistan that most
of the funds came from fast offering and humanitarian assistance donations since
that is their purpose. Members understand up front what these funds can be used
for.I don't know of any active member who opposses the use of these
funds to help releive suffering in the world. I'm grateful that the LDS Church
has the ability to contribute to disaster relief world-wide, regardless of
nationality, with such speed.
@ xscribeThe funds used by the Church for humanitarian efforts do
not come from tithing donations. Tithing goes toward building construction and
maintenance, missionary work, and the church-owned universities, among other
things. The funds used to provide humanitarian relief are called Fast Offerings.
These are offerings made voluntarily each Fast Sunday (thus the name 'Fast
Offering'; Fast Sundays are every first Sunday of the month) by members of the
church and vary in amounts based on each member's desire/capacity to give. To
date, members of the church have donated millions of dollars in Fast Offerings
that have gone directly to many humanitarian efforts, including, most recently,
Hurrican Katrina victims, the Indonesia Tsunami, and the Earthquake in Haiti.
Fast Offerings are distinct and separate funds from tithing donations.
@xscribeYou mean all these years the church has been forcing me to pay
tithing against my will and I didn't even know it? Wow, thanks for enlightening
me. You must be really smart because you know more about tithing than I do and
you are not even a member.
In answer to xscribe's question, the money that the church uses to help comes
from those who voluntarily pay fast offerings. Fast offerings are a donation
that is usually made at the beginning of the month to help those in need.
Members of the church will fast and pay fast offerings just as Isaiah taught to
do in Isaiah 58: 3-8. Members of the church also pay tithing as taught in
the scriptures. Tithing is used to pay for temples, churches, and other church
supplies. Church leaders recognize money from tithing as sacred, and are very
careful on what it is used for. Also, no member is forced to pay tithing.
Tithing is a commandment that when followed brings blessings as taught in
Malachi 3: 8-10. Similar to all commandments you are not forced to follow them.
I know that the sacrifice I have made to pay tithing, has been a great blessing
for me. It has increased my faith in Christ. When I pay my tithing I feel like
I am giving up something, for something greater. I also believe that the Lord
blesses people temporally when they pay their tithing.
Good to see my fast offering money go to a good cause! (like always)
The article describes where the money comes from. There are various categories
for donating to the church including Humanitarian aid, to provide food to others
(fast offering), tithing, and more. It is completely up to the individual to
contribute in any capacity.Nobody is forced to pay tithing or to
make any donations to help others out. We are definitly encouraged to serve
others, but nothing is forced in any way.
that is mentioned And thank you LDS faithful church we all in this BigWorld on a
tiny Ship :)
To xscribe... Mormons are not forced to pay tithing!! The church also has a
humanitarian fund that members may freely donate to and do!
Last sentence is made to show where the money is from-Donatuions and Church
sales more enough people that are willing to go out of thier way of Human
First a question, not intended to offend, just curious: Where does the money
come from that the church uses to help? Is it from tithing monies? Again, I'm
just curious, so if someone could explain, that would be great. I ask because
if it's tithing monies, then obviously those who pay tithing are then
technically forced to give their money to this cause, which seems to go against
what a lot of people don't like about taxes, etc.@Tlingit: A,
you're really going to compare Pakistan to Utah and worry about whether or not
they would care if Utah had a flood? Maybe you should try living over there for
a while. B, I'm an athiest, and I give to multiple charities. Do you, or do you
just wait to see what the church does and call it good? C, you talk about
people "lurking around the internet" and taking "cheap shots" at the church, yet
in your brief post you make two cheap shots at two different groups. Amazing!
I am GLAD my church is helping these people...Even though we all
know that had the floods happened in Utah, these people wouldn't care less about
it, much less think to help out. There are a lot of people who like
to lurk on comment boards around the Internet and take cheap shots at the
Church...But for all their superiority complex and fault finding...
I don't think I've ever read about atheist organizations giving humanitarian
relief -- or doing much of anything constructive for the world for that matter.
No matter. I'm glad we can help and are helping -- not
because we may impress them and one day be allowed to proselyte, but because we
truly are our brothers' keepers. Good for the Brethren!
they are human LDS church Helps everyone..Im not LDS but they are
some that are amazing in world we live in.Fortunate to have known them
besides the point good)
Great Job, the church could use more stories like these as opposed to all the
prop. 8 stuff...