Comments about ‘Judges rule against Utah highway crosses for fallen troopers’

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Utah's attorney general strongly disagrees with appeals court

Published: Thursday, Aug. 19 2010 12:41 a.m. MDT

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Pagan

'The cross is a memorial of a fallen trooper, not a church!' - MADRYBEG | 1:29 p.m.

Then they should use a symbol of the trooper.

Not a church.

Willie

Did they all swear on the Bible before their opening statements????

charlie91342

re - TKO78 | 12:56 p.m

"It is a memorial, not a religious marker for Christians....are you annoyed at every memorial you see regardless of its shape?"

it is a christian memorial. on public land. and it's not even a "marker" it's a monument.

answer me this. If it were a huge pentagram instead of a cross would you still be ok with it?

and if it was just a small cross that would be one thing. but they are huge. why can't you be more like Montana? I know you like huge temples, but does everything have to be huge?

and reply to the pentagram question pls.

Not_Scared

"Did they all swear on the Bible before their opening statements????"

There's no requirement to swear on a Bible. You can affirm.

Not So Good

Re: Pagan and charlie91342

Why not just try being a litte less sensitive? I mean, does a symbol, no matter what it might represent, really bother you that much? I doubt it. We see right through your hollow statements to find your real agenda to eliminate all religion. What other points are on your immediate agenda? Let me guess: eliminate tax credit for all churches; force churches to recognize any type of marriage; sieze private property of churches; etc, etc, etc. until all traces of religion are wiped clean. I still can't help but wonder why you're so threatened by religion, especially in a country that does not force you in ANY way to believe one way or another...

charlie91342

re - JustJerry | 12:46 p.m

"Isn't it really all about a certain people trying to kick God out of America? May God have mercy on America and hedge her from harm"

hate to sound like a broken record, but... who's God are you talking about? yours or mine? because they are NOT the same.

Thomas Jefferson

@ willie:

No, but dont let that stop you from looking foolish.

charlie91342

re - TKO78 | 12:56 p.m

"I am surprised at the close-mindedness of all those who have turned this into a religious battle (once again) rather than recognize it for what it truly is which is a tribute to those who have sacrifed their lives for our safety."

how can you possibly not know that a cross is a religious symbol? seriously? you think it is benign? has no meaning?

if a cross has no meaning then why was it used? there are millions of different shapes to choose from - why pick a cross? I can tell you - it's because most people in America are christians and crosses mean something special to them. so a cross as a memorial makes sense.

all I can say is that if the police dept had been made up of mostly devil worshippers, and pentagrams or devil symbols were used for these monuments, all of you would be freaking out right now. and you know why? because putting a huge religious symbol along the hiway implies the state "approves" of that religion. so a huge pentagram would imply Utah is a devil and witchcraft state. y'all would go nuts!

charlie91342

re - wrz | 1:00 p.m
""If Jesus died, HOW did he die? He was crucified."
No, no. He gave up his life freely. It was not taken... He said: "No man taketh it from me, but I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. John 10:18"


dude... come on... how do you even say that with a straight face? a bunch of people nailed him to a cross and left him for days up there, or so the story goes.

are you saying the story isn't true? or that he could have escaped from his captors?

sure he didn't put up a fight but that's a far cry from giving it up freely.

charlie91342

re - wrz | 1:00 p.m

"Jesus is in us and we in him."

spoken like a true christian. no wonder you like the crosses.

charlie91342

re -- MADRYBEG | 1:29 p.m

"I guess there should not be churches either because athiests are offended?"

churches are on private property. the atheists didn't have to pay for part of it. but they did have to pay for part of the hiway.

"The cross is a memorial of a fallen trooper, not a church!"

then why did you use crosses? why not a pentagram?

charlie91342

re - Willie | 2:13 p.m

"Did they all swear on the Bible before their opening statements????"

no they didn't. only christians do that. just like crosses.

stillwater

I cannot believe what is happening in this country! Minorities seem to rule.

Consider keeping the crosses in the ground. Place a really nice large "Seal of the State of Utah" right across where the members of the cross come together. You get the best of both worlds. You cover the supposed objectional cross, but the cross now becomes the supporting timbers to hold up the seal.

common_sense

The fact of the matter is, the cross is a well known religious symbol. To argue otherwise is silly and surely everyone knows that. I do not want to see any individual religious symbols on public land; whether they be Islamic, Satanist, Scientologist, Buddhist or Christian. I mean, would you guys be comfortable seeing a cross, right next to the upside down pentagram (the symbol of satanism). Well, im sure some of you probably would be comfortable seeing that. What I am trying to do, is to get people to use a different perspective; how would you feel if you saw symbols of religions that were completely opposite to what you believed sitting on land that your taxes pay for?

Last Stand

The problem is, in this country, we are concerned too mucy about offending the slightest minority that it's got to the point of ridiculous. Do these monuments really reflect a religious endorsement by our government? Or are a vocal minority being placated by these activist judges because for some reason they find religion threatening?

charlie91342

re - stillwater | 3:07 p.m

"Consider keeping the crosses in the ground. Place a really nice large "Seal of the State of Utah" right across where the members of the cross come together. You get the best of both worlds. You cover the supposed objectional cross, but the cross now becomes the supporting timbers to hold up the seal."

why not put new posts on the sides of the cross-member and a plaque with the officer's name so we can read it and feel for his family's loss? plus it would stand up to the wind better. or is it just your way of camoflauging your religious symbol?

charlie91342

re - common_sense | 3:14 p.m

thank you for providing some common sense. your name fits you.

I'm not atheist, christian, wiccan, nor a devil worshipper.

Joggle

Here's how majority rule and minority rights works for those who don't quite get it!

Without majority rule the framers believed that our country would be subjected to a tyrannical government but they also recognized that they needed to protect the minority. First, majority rule is the concept that policies will be determined by what the majority of the people decides. While this majority of the people decide for everyone there have been laws set forth in the Constitution that protect the basic rights of minorities regardless of race, gender, religious affiliation or sexual preference. Secondly, minority rights are the basic rights attributed to certain minority groups to ensure that they attain equality and have a voice in political decisions even when the majority wins over them. These two are related to each other in that the framers designed our government to restrict or impede the majority from hindering or taking away the rights of the minority. These two have a distinct relationship in our government even though they seem opposite of each other, because even though the majority has a higher voice in our society the minority cannot have their rights taken away from them.

charlie91342

re - Last Stand | 4:05 p.m

"Do these monuments really reflect a religious endorsement by our government?"

yes. if I was driving through Utah and I saw a bunch of huge crosses I would think I was in a christian state.

why did you make them so big?

Breeze

They cannot be something different than a cross. If it was just a badge looking little sign that would not say anything to anyone about the reason it's there. People passing by wouldn't know that it was an officer who gave his/her life for us! Seeing the cross communicates that fact to us and a sense of reverence and appreciation, for that person it is representing, comes over us.

I wish I knew what I could do to be the voice on the opposition. To be as loud as the athiests. Big deal. Give me a break. Just because I don't believe in the Jewish Religion, I can still respect them and their symbols and not have a problem. It's consideration!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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