Comments about ‘Judges rule against Utah highway crosses for fallen troopers’

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Utah's attorney general strongly disagrees with appeals court

Published: Thursday, Aug. 19 2010 12:41 a.m. MDT

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ChrisNSuz

I am a Christian and I applaud this ruling. There are millions of ways of memorializing fallen heroes without using religious symbols. Chalk one up for the good guys!

whitegold

The establishment clause has generally been interpreted to prohibit the preference of one religion over another. Putting the state symbol on a 12 foot tall cross does seem like a very clear preference.

That Makes Sense

So as a graphic/environmental display designer I cannot ever use a vertical line crossed by a horizontal line to display text on government property? If I move the horizontal crossing bar to the top of the horizontal line then is it OK? A single vertical bar also has religious significance to some people so that is out! And most law-officer badges include a 6-pointed star which of course endorses Judaism. So crosses, circles, squares, Ts, stars, and triangles are banned.

The majority of people who see a white cross on the side of the road think, "Someone would like to remember with reverence and gratitude someone who died here." In other parts of the world instead of crosses they use little adobe shrines, or latices strung with flowers. They all mean the same thing, someone we loved died here. They don't mean the state endorses a religion here.

Progessives are ruining community and culture around the world. Fight on rational-thinking majority. Shun the fringes of the left and right.

(BTW--Any bet the judges didn't understand that the predominant religion in Utah doesn't use the cross as a religious symbol?)

KM

not scared
There you go again confusing repubs with conservatives. Its true that a progressive repub can nominate a leftist judge. sabe?

1happycamper

Crosses really disturb a true atheist. A true ATHEIST cannot handle a cross mentally or physically any way shape or form. They are taboo to ALL Atheist.

VA Saint

Let's bring it before The Supreme Court!! It is NOT an endorsement of religion, rather a memorial for those who have passed before us.

RAB

The ruling and the lawsuit are example of how athiest extremists are tearing apart our constitution in favor of their own selfish world view. No just law whatsoever can stand up against nitpicking of such extreme proportions.

No doubt, the state's decision to use religious symbols was not entirely respectful of those who do not believe in such things. But supporting a lawsuit against it is equally wrong. It is just as wrong for government to remove the crosses as it is for government to install them.

Its just another example of how seperation of church and state is impossible. It will not happen until we figure out how to disect minds so we can seperate a person's religious philosophies from his non-religious ones.

@Charles

@whitegold: what I am saying is that anyone who interprets the 1st Amendment different from anything that it actually states, has misinterpreted it and their misinterpretation is invalid.

I don't care about precedent when said precedent is incorrect according to what the Constitution actually says.

Are you aware that all 13 original states actually had state religions? Seems like it's us "intellectually superior" folks of the 20th and 21st centuries that can't understand plain English.

sports fan


That Makes Sense beat me to it. the LDS church does not use crosses or have any specific symbol at all. this is a really crappy ruling.

The Atheist

If you want to memorialize these fallen officers,feel free to place a cross on the location where they are buried. Burial plots are "private property" and you are free to express your religious faith on your private property as you wish.

But the side of the highways and roads are public lands. Nobody is buried there. What is the significance of placing a marker at the location of a person's demise? It clutters the roadways and "forces" everyone who travels along those public roads to have to put up with those crosses. If we want to remember and pay tribute to fallen officers, we will drive to the graveyard and do it there.

Anyone who claims the cross is not a religious symbol is violating one of the primary teachings of most religions, as well as an important principle of (atheist) ethics: Thou shalt not lie.

This was a sound ruling. Contrary to the lies believers spread about atheists, we are NOT "anti-christian". We just want you to keep your superstitious hangups to yourselves and stop using public property, public money, and public office for your advertising and recruitment efforts!

Led Zeppelin II

Freedom of religion is unconstitutional? Our politicians and judges are destroying the constitution by making freedom and the constitution unconstitutional. God bless America from this evil empire!

SimonSays

One Nation, Under GOD .... Not "One Nation Under some or other invisible, nondescript force ..." Come on people ... this is silly.

big sal

i always thought it was freedom of religion, not freedom from religion

Stalwart Sentinel

To@Charles - You state "what I am saying is that anyone who interprets the 1st Amendment different from anything that it actually states, has misinterpreted it and their misinterpretation is invalid."

In actuality, what you are saying is that you refute the Constitution. Just admit it, there is Constitutional precedence and you have not bothered to familiarize yourself with it. The fact that you do not know to include the 14th Amendment in this discussion (see Everson v Board of Education) is an indictment of willful blindness. It is truly sad when Americans such as yourself turn a blind eye to the Constitution and the SCOTUS rulings respecting it. You live in a free land, inform yourself for heaven's sake!

Also, re: 13 original states and religion - I believe MA (maybe others) just required that people have a faith, I'm not sure it had a state sanctioned religion. Let me know what you find. On that note, you may want to look into the life of William Penn and what he was subjected to for insight into the terrible idea that is state sanctioned religion.

Vanka

The Athiest,

Despite your calling me a "loose canon" the other day, I loved this quote:

"We just want you to keep your superstitious hangups to yourselves and stop using public property, public money, and public office for your advertising and recruitment efforts!"

So Cal Ute

atheist beliefs do not make sense and are depressing. Try not to let your negativity ruin everyone elses day.

ChrisNSuz

Wait, let me be more clear. I am a Christian and a family member of a fallen officer. The ruling was absolutely appropriate. Using any other form of memorial would be every bit as honorable, and would expend approxiamtely 2 to 3 more calories of effort. In life, these officers showed acceptance and respect to all of their fellow citizens that they endeavored to serve. Do not now dishonor their sacrifice by using them in a debate that is best argued in another manner and in another forum.

byronbca

Congratulations Texas-based American Atheists, Inc. On your victory on becoming officially the biggest bigots in the world. Their insensitivity is remarkable.

I’m not a religious man but getting rid of crosses that represent someone’s death on the pretense of religion is beyond ridiculous. Crosses are symbols that represent many different things, in this case they represent dead bodies not Jesus Christ.

Are there any old cemeteries on public land? If so should we get rid of all the crosses on those? There is a difference between the separation of church and state and eliminating religion from public view. This court really missed this one.

by george

Look out Arlington Cemetery! We're going to get you next!

byronbca

Almost every simple symbol in the world is a religious symbol to someone somewhere. People need to place things into context. When I went to Arlington Cemetery I wasn’t so naive or ignorant to think that that was a super religious place, because as an American I recognize that in graveyards crosses symbolize someone’s death, that they are grave markers. The same is true when I see a cross on the side of the road with someone’s name or picture on it.

Anyone who sees a cross with someone’s name on it other than Jesus Christ and thinks it’s religious is flat out ignorant of American culture.

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