I'm only nervous that his bill goes FAR ENOUGH to solve the illegal alien
problem and their continual theft of services from Utahns!If I had
known he needed support when he announced his bill, I would have been glad to
show up! I didn't realize he was going to announce it where he'd have to face
so many supporters of lawbreakers and anarchy.Who would've ever
thought people would show up to protest a law that will do so much to help
ACTUAL CITIZENS!It looks like our legislators will need ALL OUR
SUPPORT in getting this bill passed. There's obviously a VERY VOCAL minority at
Issuing drivers privileged cards was the wrong thing to do in the first place.
The state needs to get rid of them. If a person is going to come
into the country illegally, they are not going to worry about insurance. There
are way to many ways around it. And if they hit you, they either go back to
their country, or move and take up a new identity. Voice of experience.
Long live Rep. Stephen Sandstrom, wait to go! At last someone is doing
something about all of these lawbreakers.
Rep. Sandstrom, please leave these people alone. Is there really no more
pressing matter than trying to harass a poor immigrant who is doing nothing more
than a Class B misdemeanor? It is equivalent to speeding. Why
don't you craft a law that enforces strict punishments against the businesses
that employ illegals. Remove the economic incentive to come here illegally by
fining companies 3x the minimum wage for every hour they employ the illegal. If
you want to really enforce it, share the money with a whistle blower. Don't
hate the players, hate the game.This constant attack on these
generally poor individuals is un-American.
I would urge each of you to Email Rep. Stephen Sandstrom and let him know that
you support his bill. I would also ask that you contact your Legislator and let
Him/Her know that you expect them to support this bill.
Since the law will specifically prohibit racial profiling, what the pro
illegalanti law enforcement crowd really is saying is that they believe that
Police Officers are racist.
I think most of us support him. Well worth it just for this: "
Requiring the state to verify the immigration status of anyone applying
for public benefits through systems that match Social Security numbers with
name, age and gender." I hope the other senators realize what we the people
want and support this bill.
"I believe this is a racial and social sin," said the Rev. Steve Klemz, pastor
of the Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church. "It will create fear."HA!!!
Dear Rev Steve, most law breakers are fearful - wouldn't ya say?? When a thief
breaks into a store and robs it he is really fearful because he knows what he is
doing is both benefiting him financially but is also illegal and against the
law. In the good Rev Steve's mind set all laws are bad because they introduce
fear into those who would want to break those laws. Here is some advise for the
good Reverend - tell your congregation to OBEY THE LAW and then their fears will
go away by themselves. By the way, I have to wonder if Rev. Steve understands
that those who come to Utah illegally are breaking the law of the land so the
question the good Reverend must ask himself is HE for or against law breakers?
From his comments it sounds to me like he supports law breakers. Remember the
words of the Savior in the New Testament when he said "render to Caesar that
which is Caesar's" ...(keep the law)
After wasting taxpayer money to defend it, this bill will be declared
un-constitutional, too. Immigration is a federal, not a state issue.
Sandstrom's bill will be found un-constitutional, too, after wasting taxpayer
money to defend it. Immigration is a federal, not a state issue.
way to Go not so frustrating..to those that are not from United states of
America..please learn to speak more English thanks friends of Mexico~As
the message Goes for everyone around the world living in America
Why be smart when you can pander to ignorance, hatred and the majority culture
by doing the smart thing and waiting to see how the court rules on the Arizona
law? It's only money you will have thrown down a rat hole. As a wise man once
said: "you can afford anything, if you're spending someone else's money.
I can't help but laugh at the "who would Jesus deport" sign.Would
Jesus protest at a political event?
Thank you Rep Sandstrom. It will be a long and nasty fight, but a fight that
must be won.
Wonderful! Let's get to work! 0 illegal immigrants - a goal we can all live
As for the protesters, most of them are paid to do so. At least that's what we
see here in AZ; they bus them in from California.
This bill has the same issues that will eventually result in the Arizona bill
being struck down as violating the Constitution. Sandstrom demonstrates a
decided lack of foresight. All this will do is cost Utah's taxpayers more
money. My guess is it won't get out of committee with all of these provisions
attached. Hopefully the states legal counsel will weigh in and prevent it being
signed into law with so many provisions that will be illegal and ultimately
costly to the state.
Why is it that legislator in this state are so careless with our public funds?
The matter is already going towards a Supreme Court decision.Why
waste our limited resources on a court battle that already is in place?That other sound is all the money that will be leaving our state in tourist
dollars and conventions.Additionally multi-national businesses will not
want to set up in a state with these types of laws.No one wants to have
their party in a “racist state” which is exactly how we will be
viewed nationally if Sandstroms bill passes.Regardless of what Sandstrom,
or others say, these are racially motivated laws, that if followed will lead to
The federal court system over Utah is much more conservative than the Arizona
Does anybody else find it a bit humorous and a bit offensive when the signs are
in Spanish. Who are the one's making it a racial thing? If you are going to
protest, at least do it in English.
For several years the LDS church leadership and brethren have been subtly
urging members to accept and integrate undocumented immigrants into our society.
This is because they are refugees from a land of little promise fleeing to a
promised land. This week the Church has spoken clearly. Their chief
director of communications, Mark Willes, President and CEO of Deseret Management
Corporation, said: “Some argue it is a simple matter of obeying the law.
Those who are here "illegally" should be sent "home." Legally, living here
without proper documents is an infraction on a par with driving five miles over
the speed limit.”The argument that undocumented immigrants are
criminals is false. They are a lot like you and me, and just like our
forefathers.Mr. Sandstrom's bill is not aligned with the values LDS
hold dear.The Brethren are not demanding or commanding, but rather encouraging
us to be Christian in our dealings with these good people. All LDS members
should read and follow the Brethren's counsel in this and all matters.
Someone said it right "Remove the economic incentive to come here illegally by
fining companies 3x the minimum wage for every hour they employ the illegal. If
you want to really enforce it, share the money with a whistle blower" But add
to it stiff fines for those who rent to illegals and to those who aid or harbor
illegals including La Raza and employees of government agencies. Latino
leader should have the backbone to turn in illegals instead of harboring them.
For those of us who have always had latino friends and looked for
ways to make them feel welcome, we are finally fed up with the arrogance and
expectations that illegals are entitled to the same benefits and rights as
American citizens. Go back to your own country and be "hard
workers." Illegals and Latino Leaders are dividing our country and blaming it
on those who protest their behaviour. You don't owe me anything and I don't
owe you anything. You deserve the right to go back to your own country and
build it into anything you can make it. And don't give us the crap about the
poor children born here.
What a shmuck!
"check out the protesters behind Sandstrom - college age kids and hispanics. The
clueless and the law breakers."According to Patriot's analysis,
hispanics = lawbreakers. It's no wonder that many Hispanics are concerned about
FINALLY!!! Hope Rep Sandstrom know the majority of Utah supports him, but we had
to work today to fund all the taxes that pay for the illegals."Not_Scared | 1:46 p.m. Aug. 13, 2010 It's only money you will have thrown
down a rat hole."Most likely not, because at the very least,
illegals will know that they are not welcome in this state. You are correct
about one thing, since the taxes that will go to pay for this bill come from the
majority of Utah's who support this bill, at least we will be using OUR money to
support something we believe in rather tha supporting those whom we don't wish
to!If you are looking for someone to throw money your way go
somewhere else, or better yet, come here legally and earn your own way.
I love that illegals think they have rights, oh wait they do thanks to lax
federal enforcement and premiere obmama's interference with states rights.
immigration used to be a federal issue until they dropped the ball for decades
creating the situation we have today. maybe this isnt a big deal in the scheme
of things since america today is a direct reflection of the weimar republic in
germany pre world war 2. we all know how that panned out. so if your illegal
and want to stay you better pray that america turns itself around or you will be
the ones getting blamed for all of our problems and it wont be pretty.
What would Jesus do?He'd first tell his illegal friends to
voluntarily return to their home country and then warn them they would have to
face the consequences of the law if they remained.
Utah, New Mexico, and Washington need to require proof of citizenship before
issuing driver licenses. If this issue isn't addressed, then there will be more
illegal immigrants here than anyone can imagine. Like Representative Sandstrom
said, this is a legal issue, not a racial one. I hope that we, the American
people, will see that it's the laws of our country that are being mowed down and
our way of life is based on obeying the law. If we look the other way, we're
going to see our nation and our way of life disappear.
I really do not see this immigration bill doing anything but making people feel
good. If an illegal gets pulled over on I-15 for a traffic
infraction I doubt a trooper really wants to or has the time to arrest them and
take them to immigration. UHP is severly undermanned as it is and their top
priorites are accidents and drunk driving. Unless this bill allows more funding
for police officers across the state it is just a feel good bill that really is
meant to scare illegals into leaving Utah.
The apostle Paul dealt with a situation where a runaway slave came to him,
Onesimus, who had escaped his owner, Philemon. How do Paul handle this
situation? He had Onesimus return to his owner with a letter asking mercy from
Philemon (see Philemon in the NT). Paul could have harbored Onesimus. He likely
greatly sympathized with Onesimus's situation, but in the end it appears he was
following the rule of law.
Sandstrom is the new, updated Buttars. Racism and backwater ignorance in a
young, upscale package. I hope this type of mean, money-wasting law fails. And
Utah Mormons, live your religion, which has as its second greatest law to love
your neighbor as yourself.
Once again in Utah politics we see in the example of Sandstrom and friends that
arrogance and incompetence are a dangerous combination.
Some Utahns target our undocumented Hispanic minority as a scapegoat for our
ills, vilify them as a scourge on our society, and threaten them with systematic
purging. When I and others question the wisdom of these sentiments, I repeatedly
hear, "What is it about the law that you don't understand?" Isn't that
clever?But do you really believe that their undocumented status
alone is reason for the level of opprobrium they endure? My impression in this
case is that the mantra of "illegal...illegal...illegal" is mostly a convenient
pretext (call it a code word) for what is really at heart just a disguised form
of you know what.
The church has missionaries that are here in this country illegally. So again
what would Jesus Do?If the church is okay with having missionaries
that are here in this country illegally. Why are so many members against the
church.Make sure what side of the fence you
Good job, this is what we need and we don't need anything else, no guest worker
programs, no social benefits, no compromise with those who break the law,
period.We don't have to make deals to appease Yapass, Robles, or Chris Burbank
(he needs to do his job or change professions, its getting pretty pathetic with
him) and those who are here illegally need to get the message that it's time to
go home the people of Utah are fed up with you.
Dont even get me started about Butters he sounds very predjudice should never
been in office!
It is about national security.It is about not being able to
absorb and pay for the uneducated, illiterate, masses from the south.
I have to shake my head at those who use religous speech, or religous
beliefs/doctrine to justify their racism.The KKK was famous for this.Slavery for many years was defended as being gods will.I think God wants
us to be nice to each other and to share.
Charles History: Missionaries have visas and passports. They are here LEGALLY.
This is not about race. Except for the fact that he is targeting Mexicans.Mexicans are filling jobs that, quite frankly, Americans are too lazy to
do. You think unemployed housewives are going to give up their lunches and
shopping and Oprah watching to do those jobs? Uh, no. But the US immigration
policy does not allow 99.9% of them to work here legally, so they do so
illegally. How much sense does that make? Who's fault is that? Provide these
workers with the means to work here legally, then hold them to it.I
wonder if this guy even realizes US immigration policy only allows something
like less than 100,000 Mexicans to work here legally at any one time.
"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in
obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."That's my Church's
You are all haters. I think it would be hilarious if the people posting here
(on both sides) were sent to Antarctica, and made to try to get back.
I take issue with the assertion that people interrupted him. The crowd chanted
"shame on Sandstrom" as he LEFT FOLLOWING the press conference. They politely
waited while he spoke on the merits of his bill and posed questions afterwards.
This IS a sign of things to come and yes MOST of the protestors were in fact
white. If you propose racist bills in the state of Utah you WILL be voted out of
office. This bill makes Utah and the Mormon chuch look bad and it will cost tens
of millions to enforce.
Did I Say That? | 3:34 p.mIt is about not being able to absorb and
pay for the uneducated, illiterate, masses from the south.What do
you have against people in the South? I kind of like Texas and Louisiana.What level of education for you is required for a person to be considered a
valuable human being?Should only those with doctorate degrees be allowed
to be citizens in the United States?
lex loci, doesn't your rant about fining employers actually attack the poor you
trumpet by taking away their jobs? You're just like Sandstrom and the immigrant
haters.What you need to focus on is the root cause. Poverty. When poverty
makes a family move to a better job, we usually call that heroic and other terms
meaning good idea. This bill furthers the penalties on the poor.
Sandstrom and his co-horts in the legislature need to work on the root cause,
how to allow more opportunity, how to reduce / eliminate the civil and criminal
problems associated with a common human effort to improve one's livelihood, and
how to make something like a guest worker program work better. Sandstrom is
starting at the wrong end of any priority list, he's the problem not the
It is more than a misdemeanor when you forge a SS# that is mine, or that of my
spouse or child and use it to falsely obtain employment, services etc.I then spend years trying to clear my good name, my credit that I have worked
hard for etc.I am sorry your countries are a mess, but come here
legally, and I welcome you with open arms, and our family and companies will
Charles History, the law allows all churches to use use illegal aliens in
missionary work. No where in Mr Willes editorial did he say he was
representing the church. I would be fearful of a church leader who
thought going 5 mph over the speed limit, was the same as illegal immigration.
It's sad we have been driven to this point in time by 12-20 million
people that put themselves above the law. If you support them, then sponsor one
for citizenship. You be responsible for them. But don't ask or demand it of
everyone. Some of us have other priorities in our lives.
hunt, when Sandstrom says this bill is not racist, I invite you to read the
story of the Emperor's New Clothes. Sandstrom is pulling a scam, and you're
falling for it, if you believe his story that the bill is not racist. It's
about 1 race, and about getting them out of town.Sandstrom and the Emperor
both want us to think their work is something that it's not. Try to get it
hunt, I think I've told you before, but your cave echos a lot.
If we don't ID illegals how we gonna kick 'em out?And they need
kickin' out lest they essentially are de facto granted amnesty.Any
so-called comprehensive immigration reform which includes any kind of path to
citizenship without leaving the country is amnesty and is not not reform. It's
a sham. Because, if foreigners have amnesty, others who did the right thing,
waited in line, and came legally will be, and should be furious. Plus, all who
are now in line will be teed off and will leave their place in line and try to
enter illegally, to get their share of our give-away apple pie.That's why Sandstrom's effort is so critical. We must get tough. We must put
a stop to illegal entry, including the anchor baby industry. That includes
IDing foreigners without permission papers. Summarily deporting them, and
enforcing hiring laws. 'Securing the border' is a red herring. An estimated 40
percent of illegals overstay their visas.Foreigners have figured us
out long ago. They know we are an easy target where they can suck up government
welfare without even being a citizen.
@voluntaryist 3:54 pmWhy don't you do as your name says and
volunteer yourself to Antarctica first.
RE: TheCanuckObviously, under your reasoning, the Mormons would
never have supported the American RevolutionAlso according to you; the
expulsion order by governor Boggs, was God will, and the Mormons were required
under their religious beliefs to abide by it?How about all the years that
Mormons practiced polygamy when it was illegal?Why was it ok for Mormons
to illegally practice polygamy, but it is not alright for Mormons to illegally
hire Mexicans?Under your belief system those in Germany under Nazi rule
would be required to turn over any Jews they found. Those who live in
communist countries are required to turn over anyone who speaks against the
party.Do Mormons really believe that they must obey immoral laws?Do
Mormons really believe that they must obey and support oppressive
Many of the sign holders are the same types of people that showed up in Arizona.
And I agree with several posters, and my screen name would also back up the fact
that.... people should at least protest in our language!This whole
fight is ridiculous. Someone saying to back off because "it is only a Class B
misdemeanor like speeding" and others that keep playing the race card. Illegals have absolutely zero rights in my country. They are breaking the law,
and our country has been kind enough to allow it. Enough is enough! Illegals get out of our state and country. You are not welcome! We do not want
you here. It is time to start voting legislators out of office that do not
support our laws. It is time to vote out a chief of police that finds excuses
NOT to enforce our laws.Illegals - GET OUT!I hope every
single one of you is scared. Scared enough to get out!
Rocky Mountain OysterI'd invite you to read the parable of the good
samaritan, then consider what Jesus would do now. Rather than tell us as you
did in your post, you're not that spokesman, and you've got the wrong answer
besides.We can and should help our poor neighbors from south of the
border. We're on the same land, we have the wealthy side of the line, they have
the poor side. Seems unfair, seems like we ought to be agents of changing this
inequity. Sandstrom is lost, he's an impediment, he deserves no civility.
TheCanuck--You are mistaken. The church's official statements have only been to
encourage those dealing with the issue of immigration to be guided by
compassion. Various high-level church officials have made public statements
comparing undocumented immigration to trespassing or speeding five mph over the
speed limit. Nowhere have I seen church officials advocating this selective
hammering on an administrative law. These rabid calls for punishing
immigrants just seem mean and racist. I cannot see it any other way. The
"they're breaking the law" people don't have the same hateful way of calling
people "illegals" who pay their income tax late and who register their cars out
of state. Why do you choose this particular law to get excited about? I think it
is just because you want to get rid of brown-skinned people.
did you say that...it's hardly about national security, there's no armed
invasion, there's no threat at all to us, keep your eye on the ball, the radical
muslims, who are a true security threat and demonstrated.It is all about
how to help some good neighbors who are poor, uneducated, and seemingly without
opportunity. My America is based on opportunity as a higher ideal than blind
adherence to the rule of a bad law. Sandstrom and you truly have it backwards,
hey, canuck, read your church's official opinion on other matters, like
compassion for the sick and weary, like tolerance, like helping others. you're
miopic, canuck, get a look out there. people like you will be expected to
follow the new law, soon to be passed by congress. Bienvenidos, amigos.
Re: "attentive" 3:42Wow, I missed that, when I went I my mission
to Chicago I needed to bring my visa.I knew I forgot
something.(LOL)For your information some missionaries and "RM"s have
been caught being in the country illegally.
Re: Menace to Society "Mexicans are filling jobs that, quite frankly, Americans
are too lazy to do" WRONG!! American's wont do it for $3.00 an hour! That's the
difference!! You are the ones who are racist! American citizens have every right
to protect their border and require people to come here legally... Try crossing
the border to go live in Mexico illegally and see what happens to you! There is
not a country in the world that doesn't require some sort of immigration process
and for you to turn around and call Americans racist is a joke! Good for Rep.
Sandstrom! Keep standing up for our rights and our country!
If you have American citizenship, BUT you are brown, have an accent or wear
culturally different clothing, get ready to be harassed. Also be prepared when
you are walking down the street to have others look at you and "wonder" if you
are here legally. Get ready for low paying jobs. Get ready to make less than
your white counterparts. Get ready to be turned down for job interviews because
of the fear factor of employers. Get use to it, because you will have to prove
yourself every day that you continue to live among racists. If you are white and
are here illegally from Canada, you have nothing to fear. Being white is safer
than being brown.
To TheCanuck,Here is Jesus Christ position: 1 Corinthians 131 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not acharity,
I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have
the gift of aprophecy, and understand all bmysteries, and all knowledge; and
though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity,
I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the apoor, and
though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me
nothing. 4 aCharity bsuffereth long, and is ckind; charity denvieth not;
charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
@ex loci"Is there really no more pressing matter than trying to
harass a poor immigrant who is doing nothing more than a Class B misdemeanor? It
is equivalent to speeding."I agree it is equivalent to speeding.
And speeding is a very serious violation. Studies have shown that speeding is
the primary cause of deaths on the highways. That's how serious it is.
Jonathan, I think it is already happening. I see the two minutemen who showed up
to the protest today have 3 accounts each. This is what happens when racism is
not quelled. Yes, we are all PAID to show up and protest, how absurd. Perhaps
the religeous officials who came were paid as well? Most people oppose this law.
Most people know it is wrong, immorral, expensive and ineffective. MANY MANY
people wrote Sandstrom and asked him not to do this. I would guess many more
than wrote him in favor. He just chooses to not count anyone who disagrees with
his white world view. He also brought up deporting Muslims by the way. To a
simpleton like him anyone who is brown or Muslim must be a terrorist. We need an
IQ test for anyone filing to run for office.
RE: VIDAR,Amen brother!
I am brown skinned and immigrated here from Canada legally. I am treated well
and have documents that allow me to work and live here. I pay my fair share in
taxes, more than average Utahn, I would guess. I don't required government
assistance. But I also speak english and don't steal the identity of others. It angers me that many illegals jump in front of me for citizenship when
they aren't even here legally. And they cause numerous financial burdens on this
state in many areas. Health care, educational, criminal, social programs.If asked to show my green card which by federal regulation I am already
required to carry with me at all times, like a drivers license, to prove my
immigrant status, I can show it. Whoever tried that scare tactic doesn't know
immigration law. Looking at DAVE4197. :)What the supporters of
illegals don't want you, the silent majority to know is this:Support
of amnesty/illegals is a HUGE DEMOCRAT VOTER registration initiative. Designed
to usurp silent majority public opinion and keep leftist leaning political hacks
re: wrzWhich class B misdemeanor does more damage to our country.Being in this country illegally?speeding?Adultry?
dave4197I am done reading your hogwash. You make one outlandish
claim after another with no evidence to back it up. And when you use parables
such as the "Good Samaritan" or the "Emporors New Clothes", you take their
meaning completely out of context.If the country operated in the manner
you are touting we would not have a United States of America but instead would
be living in a third world country similar to Mexico. I can take at least
take solace in the fact that you're views are those of a small minority. Maybe one day you will desire to join those of us who use logic and reason
devoid of name calling and general bigotry towards those you don't agree with.
We can only hope.
Why would people have issue with providing license and registration upon being
pulled over? I thought cops ask that first thing every time they pull someone
over? So a person can either provide that documentation... or not. That's not
racial profiling at all.I think if people are law abiding, there is
nothing to worry about. On the flip side I do feel bad for those
Latinos who are here trying to make a living for their family. They work hard
and try to be good people.Unfortuneately there are too many that take
advantage of the system and it looks bad on all of them. I think some
changes need to be made to allow citizenship easier. Three years of a clean
record, and a basic knowledge of the English language. Something along those
lines. It's too hard for these people to be here legally right now and anybody
who says otherwise needs to brush up on what it takes to gain citizenship.
@ PburtI have to laugh at your comment. "And Utah Mormons, live your
religion, which has as its second greatest law to love your neighbor as
yourself."You lump ALL Mormons in together as judgemental people....
the same way some people lump ALL Latinos in as lawbreaking theives. See the
irony there? You probably don't.
Someone on here has said, "Illegals have absolutely zero rights in my country."
I would like to direct you to the bill of rights. 1st Amendment, "Congress
shall make no law ... right of the people ..." 2nd Amendment, "...the right of
the people to keep and bear Arms ..." 3rd Amendment "...without the consent of
the Owner..." 4th Amendment "The right of the people ..." 5th Amendment "No
person ..." 6th Amendment "... the accused shall enjoy ..." 7th Amendment "In
suits at common law ... the right to trial by jury ..." 8th Amendment "Excessive
bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual
punishments inflicted."My point? The Bill of Rights never limits
the rights to citizens or legal aliens. As far as I know, the attempts to do so
judicially have been roundly derided and shot down. Don't say stupid things in
public environments it weakens your good points and does not add to the
It is abundantly clear that what Sandstrom and friends are seeking is not so
much a solution for our immigration crisis as a pound of flesh. Nothing
worthwhile comes of vengeance. Is a competent immigration policy that is
actually workable and humane too much to ask of our legislators?
Canuck, my brown friend, your days of being treated fairly have ended. We in the
great state of Utah have already crossed the threshold of bigotry. How ironic
too. Mormons fled to the mountains because of hatred and now will promote that
same hatred in the name of law and equity. Pity. The brown races are now the
hate group du jure. Nothing new. White imperialist have executed their Manifest
Destiny since the beginning of time. Aboriginal Americans were put in their
place. Japanese Americans were interned during WW2 (for their own good of
course). Now Americans with the color brown will have to answer to white
authority and "Show their papers" because of "reasonable suspicion". Thank
heaven if your teenage children that will be driving to school next week are
caucasian enough not to get pulled over and be late for classes. Oh I forgot,
police do not racially profile. Never mind.
@Ajax 3:13 p.m.Come on, Ajax. Get some brains. We are being
overrun with illegals pouring into this state and this country. This needs to
stop. They are sucking up all our welfare (with anchor babies, etc.) and they
are taking jobs that Americans need. America currently has 15 million
unemployed living on welfare, which is quickly going broke. We need the jobs
that illegals are taking so that our own people can get off welfare and become
productive citizens again. And so that our economy can make a recovery.And don't tell us that illegals are only taking jobs American's won't
do. This is false. There are illegals taking very well paying jobs. Jobs that
Americans would be willing to take.There are ways for foreigners to
get jobs in America. Illegals are circumventing these procedures. We are a
nation of laws. We expect all who would come here to obey our laws... or go
home. And if they don't go home on their own, we will find them and throw them
@Charles History"The church has missionaries that are here in this
country illegally. So again what would Jesus Do?"He would drive them
out... just like he did those who defiled his father's temple."Make
sure what side of the fence you are on."We're trying to make sure
illegals stay on their side of the fence.
Those supporting the SB 1070 and this legislation proposal, need to read from
Timelife FAVORITE VIDEOS Collection (look at their web site if you want): "The Nazis a Warning from History".Also, Google "9500
Liberty"Those are REAL LIFE experiences that happened. Utah
is heading that way!!! Stop it while you can!
U.S.C. 1325 : US Code - Section 1325:(a) Improper time or place;
avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of
factsAny alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2)
eludes examination or inspection by immigrationofficers, or (3) attempts
to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or
misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall,
for the firstcommission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of
any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years,
or both.(b) Improper time or place; civil penaltiesAny alien who is
apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time
or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a
civil penalty of - (1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such
entry.People don't realize that Civil AND Criminal penalties apply.
Up to 6 months in jail!
I don't get some of you fighting over the church's stance on this: Who cares?
The LDS church can have it's own opinion or "stance" on whatever they want to. I
do know for a fact that it is ILLEGAL to be in my country ILLEGALLY. The LDS
church can't change that fact, so why argue about it? It is like you are trying
to prove who is the better Mormon, again who cares? I am Mormon, and
I don't worry about what the church's stance is. Why? Because I already know it
is ILLEGAL to be in my country ILLEGALLY! Period.
So continuing my earlier comment, a person can be fined OR put in jail, OR
BOTH!!! That's for illegal entry. Staying adds more penalties, and committing
crimes while here, like stealing identities, using that identity to commit
fraud, add to the pot. For those who think it's a victimless crime, think
Rep. Sandstrom I do not support your bill that imitates the Arizona
anti-immigration law. You must not be a family man or a believer to even think
about implementing that measure in Utah. The Arizona anti-immigrant law makes
Arizona a police state and is ungodly, anti-family and un-American. Utah is not
Arizona. I agree that action independent of federal inaction maybe necessary,
but how Utah goes about it, should reflect both our unique circumstances and our
Not sure what Jesus would do on deportation... for me, illegal immigration
doesn't fit the Good Samaritan story at all... more like money changers at the
temple. The money changers weren't willing to abide by rules and respect for
where they were. Anyone who's read the Bible knows Jesus took charge and ended
the problem. I don't advocate we do it the way Jesus did, I do think there are
times a house needs to be cleaned.
@VIDAR"Which class B misdemeanor does more damage to our country.
Being in this country illegally? speeding?Adultry (sic)?"All
of the above.
@Jonathan Eddy 4:30 p.m."And get used to deporting yourself or
getting thrown out on your ear.
@Steve-o 5:07 p.m."I think some changes need to be made to allow
citizenship easier."We currently have procedures to allow for
citizenship. Unfortunately, the line is extremely long because millions and
millions want in. We have to be fair and allow those who applied first, in
first. And we have to control the flow. Anything else would be showing
favoritism and would result in immigration chaos.View 'Immigration
gumballs' (YouTube) to see what will happen if we don't control immigration.
The federal government won't protect U.S. workers, local communities and taxpayers from illegal immigration. The federal government sues to stop states
that try to help.We have to fight back !!Push your state rep to make
a change. Google this: NUMBERSUSA .Once you are registered, go to
the "action board" to send FREE faxes now. They are all typed up and ready
to go, you just need to click your mouse to send.Forward this to everyone
There seems to be some confusion on the criminality of undocumented
immigrants.It is a criminal act to enter the country illegally, with
fines between $50 and $250 and/or a maximum of six months in jail. However, an
estimated 40% to 50% of undocumented immigrants have entered the country legally
but then have overstayed their visas. This is not a violation of U.S. criminal
code, which is to say that they are not correctly labeled as criminals and are
not subject to fines and/or incarceration. They are, however, in
violation of immigration regulations and can be deported, although in reality,
if they have no criminal record, for the most part they are not. Not until an
order of deportation is actually issued and then disobeyed does an immigration
infraction become a criminal matter. Prosecution of "improper entry by an
alien" mostly occurs when a person is actually apprehended illegally crossing
the border. Otherwise it is seldom pursued as it is difficult to prove,
expensive, time consuming and would clog our courts with millions of cases.
People are still children of God even if born south of the Rio Grande.If we really believe in the santity of marriage and the importance of
the family we will not pass a bill that will tear thousands of families apart.
Especially when the bill is ignoring the fact that many of these people came to
the US fleeing the death squads of Guatemala and other central American
countries that not only kill but maim and rape.Up until recently I
wondered if there were still many death squad refugees, but than I read of one
who was slated to be deported even though she had been married to a US citizen
for 4 years at the time of her apprehension. This was clearly no sham marriage,
so the government should have worked out some way to let her stay.I
would even support a fine for people in her case. Realistically deportation is
a drastic respnse to what many of these people have real done. Many have been
upstanding citizens and contributed to our communities for years.If
they have raped, ran fraud rings, murdered, been drug dealers or such
deportation makes sense, but not in most cases.
I have come a long way. I will support conditioning allowing even
undocumented immigrants who came here at two weeks of age to stay on them paying
some sort of fine.I do not like the idea. Punishing someone for a
crime they did at two weeks of age is extreme. However, it is much better than
the blanket deportation schemes or than letting the current system continue.The problem is that no matter how hard the police try to look the other
way, people who are here without documents are unlikely to cooperate in
investigations. Anyway, if we have a system where our response to any
undocumented immigrant is deportation, we really have little extra we can do
against those who murder and steal, and thus have little to incentivize good
behavior.If we open a path to regularization, we can remove a lot of
negatives. Too many of the anti-immigrant types are not going to accept
anything that approaches amnesty. But applying fines to people is not amnesty,
it is just a different form of punishment.
A habla ingles Los Estados Unidos, Pero mis primos que hablan Cherokee
que fue hablamos y escriban en Cherokee antes que Ingles fue Hablan en esta
pais. Pos que no puede hablan Cherokee?Hay mis primos, pero no mis
primos primero, como mis primos viente. Lo ciento que mi espanol es
malo. Es porque vivia en un parte de la pais que tiene muchas que hablan
Arabia, y ellos parece a mi como muchas que hablan espanol y hablan espanol por
ellos y ellos no entiendo, por eso, no habla mucho en espanol y ahora mi espanol
For those who do not understand Spanish, and also for those who do not
understand really poorly written Spanish, in my last post I said that the
Cherokee have been speaking and writting in their language in the boundaries of
this country since before anyone spoke or wrote in English here.On
what grounds do we destroy languages and tell everyone they have to change to be
like us.A side note. The Cherokee sylaby was not developed in the
19th Century. That is a lie largely developed by racist people who assumed the
Cherokee must have developed the language after exposure to European ways.The book "Tell Them That They Lie" tells of how it had long been a
secret known only to a special class within Cherokee society until it was
revelaed in the early 19th century by a man who was trying to save Cherokee
society in the face of Euro-American encrouchment.This is so much
more believeable than the normal story of its invention out of nothing and the
Cherokee being unflinching partisans of it over a Latinized system just 3 years
later that the only amazing thing is anyone still believes the lies.
Call a special session and get this passed as soon as possible and then start
enforcing it!Thank you Re. Sandstrom!Now, I need to work
on my own Representative to support it!
I'm sorry. I love the Hispanic people and think we need to figure out a way for
them to be able to work here legally. I welcome them here to live if they go
through the legal process for obtaining citizenship or some kind of extended
stay right. But there is so much about this entire argument that is just plain
stupid. Driving privilege card for illegals? My heck, this is de facto
acknowledgement that they are here with our permission. So what do we do now...
how about a terrorist drivers privilege card or even better a terrorist FAA
flying permit. How can you even begin resolve a problem that is so grounded in
administrative madness and a sense of entitlement with no grounds? I'm thinking
I should move to Mexico and retire... but I wouldn't have any rights down there.
I so very, very sad about this issue.
Words and Actions | 4:46 p.m. Aug. 13, 2010"Most people oppose this
law."Really? Have you checked the polls lately? Most national polls
indicate the number is around 60 to 81 percent of the country in support of the
Arizona law.Call me crazy but I think that Utah will fall in the upper
portions of that range.Maybe you meant to say that most illegal
immigrants oppose the law?
I still marvel at the lack of quality of many comments on both sides of this
issue. On the one hand some support just ignoring the law supposedly based on
mercy or compassion. On the other hand you have those who think this bill is the
"be all end all to illegal immigration." Not even close.I grow weary
of restating the facts on all these articles, and the same bloggers never seem
to get it. If Utah wants effective enfocement, we must work with existing
federal programs which are much more effective and compreshensive then
Sandtrom's bill."Secure Communities" allows local law enforcment to
share biometric information with ICE on persons they stop for other crimes.
Sound familiar? The 287(g) program basically deputizes and trains local law
enforcement to apprehend illegal aliens, hold them and turn them over to ICE.
Why is Utah recreating the wheel instead of just utilizing existing programs?One of many other concerns is the unfunded mandate that this bill
represents. What type of funding is the state planning on providing to budget
strapped county and city budgets who may need additional resources and training
to enforce the new law?
Like Arizona's bill, this is a cry for help. If the Federal Govt. were doing
its job, it wouldn't be necessary. I hope this and bills in other states
embarrass the Feds to the point that they actually do something about border
enforcement. Of course, when you don't have any good arguments, you
can always scream "racism." That's what those who have nothing to stand on do.
Fact is, we already have all the teeth in the existing law that we need for
enforcement. The only reason more Utah counties are not utilizing 287(g) is lack
of resources and funding. The only thing standing in the way of better border
enforcement is increased spending for additional resources. Unfortunately, just
as you can never build enough prisons and hire enough police officers to stamp
out serious crimes, you can never eliminste illegal immigration through
enforcement measures alone.Contrary to what many on these blogs
claim, the U.S. has one of the most restrictive "legal" immigration regimes in
the world. It is much more difficult for a Chinese citizen, and most other
countries citizens to legally enter the U.S. then it is for a U.S. citizen to
visit almost any other country.Fact is, in order to help solve the
problem of illegal immigration, there needs to be more legal paths to
citizenship and temporary work visas, and guest worker programs.Contrary to popular belief, additional workers in the U.S. does not take away
existing jobs from citizens, it expands the economy and creates more jobs here
in the U.S.
This bill must pass the coming legislature and must be signed by the governor
into law. It is the only possible solution to an unsolveable problem. It has
been caused by illegal aliens invaiding the United States and the citizens have
had enough. It is not racial,religious or any other bias. It is a legal issue
and the law must be upheld. Illegals have no rights to demand anything. Latino
leaders must insist that illegals return home, instead of remaining in the
U.S.A. or they become the biggest part of the problem.
I am not in favor of this law as I think a bilateral agreement with several
countries would mostly take of this problem. It would allow current citizens to
stay in the country if they were employed as "ambassodors of labor for their
country" thereby removing both the benefit issues, the voting issues, and the
anchor baby issues involved in this debate. While we are working on such
agreements can we please stop with the race baiting. What race is a Mexican, a
Cuban, a Columbian. Last I check to be "Hispanic, a derogatory term" means of
Spain, and they are Caucasian. BTW why do census workers try to categorize
people into this rigid caste. Especially, since the largest country and
population in South America is not "Hispanic"?
"Nobody is going to apply for these programs if there is a risk they will be
publicly shamed and embarrassed for it," said Glenn Bailey, executive director
of the Crossroads Urban Center. If someone is here legally or is a
U.S. citizen and LEGALLY entitled to apply for social programs, why would they
be publicly shamed and embarrassed? Come on, Glenn Bailey.One
poster said that "the church" has missionaries here illegally. Prove it. I
really doubt it because they are so careful about visas for all of the Americans
who serve outside the U.S.Lastly, maybe this is a loose analogy but
in Jesus' time, everyone went back to the city of their birth to be taxed.
Going back to your "homeland" for legal reasons isn't a new concept.
@Emjay 9:54 said:"If the Federal Govt. were doing its job, it
wouldn't be necessary. I hope this and bills in other states embarrass the Feds
to the point that they actually do something about border enforcement."The idea that the feds are doing nothing is repeated by many citizens and
their elected state representatives ironically enough. Fact is, the Federal
government is devoting a tremendous amount of your tax dollars to border
enforcement. It just isn't enough. Last year, ICE deported well over
300,000 illegal immigrants. Recently, they have consistently beefed up border
defenses and number of agents. Just this week Congress appropriated an
additional $600 million for 1000 additional national guard troops, surveillance
drones and additional fencing for the border.In the last five years
Senator Hatch secured Utah's first federal immigration court. Deportees no
longer have to be processed through Denver or SFO. ICE has established quick
response teams, in rural areas of Utah. Before that the only ICE presence was
along the Wasatch Front.Supporting spending more of your tax dollars
for enforcement is a valid position to take. However, please stop making the
ungrounded assertion nothing is being done.
Correction:"Unlike Arizona's law, Sandstrom said his version allows
an officer to question the immigration status of only the person who is being
held for violating a crime"Violating a crime? Don't you mean
violating a law--or committing a crime?
Anyone else notice the irony in the photos presented by the Deseret News? In
photos for Sandstrom he is surrounded by hecklers and protest signs. Yapias'
photos show him comfortably seated beneath an American flag. Yes he is a citizen
representing the interested of illegal people, and yes, he has freedom of
speech. However, Sandstrom, an elected representative is standing in a public
setting, working to bolster the well-being Utah citizens is shown with people
who are taunting him and want illegal activity sanctioned. Anyone else see this
irony? Check it out. Who is taking these pictures?
@John Pack Lambert of Michigan"People are still children of God even
if born south of the Rio Grande."But I doubt if God intended the
entire world to live within the boundaries of the United States.If
we get overrun by people from other countries who couldn't make their own
countries a success, they will come here and make our country as undesirable as
places from which the came, i.e., just another third world country. We must
guard against that.
Sandstrom has a terrible bill. I hope the guv will veto this bill if passed.
What this situation needs is cooler heads, i.e. empty of the hate and fear and
selfishness, and civil discussion (Sandstrom is clearly not involved in a civil
discussion), and a logical look at the root problem (poverty, not some class B
misdemeanor) and what can remedy the root problem. The conclusion will be that
we should help our friends and neighbors from the south, who lived here before
we did, who just want an opportunity and a hand up not a handout. Make the
immigration for Mexicans quicker, easier, and more open. America is about
upholding inalienable rights and allowing opportunity and removing tyrannical
bad laws. Not about closed doors and boots on the neck of the poor.
Hooray for Sandstrom. Keep it up. Illegal is a crime. Be civil, but stop the
@facts_r_stubborn"Fact is, we already have all the teeth in the
existing law that we need for enforcement."Exactly right. We have
sufficient federal immigration laws but the fed refuses to enforce them.
Arizona and now Utah are trying to fill the gap. It is astounding that, instead
of the federal government welcoming the help from states, it is suing to stop
the help."The only thing standing in the way of better border
enforcement is increased spending for additional resources."It's
increased spending alright. But the added personnel being sent to the border
are told to limit their duties to administrative work... such as emptying waste
baskets and filling out time cards."Fact is, in order to help solve
the problem of illegal immigration, there needs to be more legal paths to
citizenship and temporary work visas, and guest worker programs."That's exactly the wrong thing to do. Giving citizenship to illegals while
others wait in line is unfair. Further, it just encourages more to come with
the promise of amnesty when they arrive.
At one time during my foreign mission my papers weren't current. I would have
fit the "illegal" label being thrown around in this debate.One
missionary in my mission actually had to finish in another country because his
papers expired and he didn't renew them on time. He was basically deported.We had to escort another missionary outside the country and then reenter
so that he could get a fresh tourist visa to finish his last few months without
problem. His papers were expired and he couldn't renew them in time.In my experience, not all missionaries are legal, all of the time.
Bureaucracy sucks, and US immigration bureaucracy is the worst I've ever
Hey LDS,Please stop spamming every article with your comments
claiming that Mark Willes, President and CEO of Deseret Management Corporation
is speaking for the church. He does not speak for the church.The LDS
church officially has pretty much just said to have compassion. That does not
mean we should open the gates and let everyone in. It means we should be nice as
we tighten up the laws and close the borders.
How can anyone dispute the idea that if you are breaking a law and should be
punished, all this bill says is that if you are breaking a law we can check if
you are breaking another law. I like how he said illegal is not a race its a
crime! I am all for coming here and living the american dream but do it legally
I have friends that came to this country respectfully and honestly and it wasnt
that hard! We let illegals come in like parasites on our system we let them
protest we let them commit identity fraud. I personally have been in an accident
with an illegal with no licence or insurance and I have been robbed and had an
illegal try to run up thousands in credit card charges. Often by ignoring one
law we tell them they wont be held accountable for any other laws they break! We
cant turn a blind eye to any law. This isnt racist its inforcing a law and
protesters claim that the law fuels hate. If you ask legal immigrants , some
will tell removing the illegals will help calm tension towards minorities.
These protesters and illegal aliens don't have a leg to stand on. The only ones
being racist are the protestors, the bill and the laws don't designate any race
being targeted. However most of the illegals are one race, Mexican, and that
makes it look racist and their only excuse to cite racism. As for illegals
having to carry and show identification is a lie, all citizens of Utah by law
must carry identification as well. All legal immigrants or visitors with visas
or passports must keep identification on them at all times. Another law, a
federal law.All these protestors a blowing hot air with no legal or
factual cause. These illegal aliens, even your neighbors are not our friends,
they are the frenemy, wolves prowling this country as scavengers and
criminals.Law and order must be restored and more restrictions
placed on illegal foreign nationals who loot and pilfer with lies and deceit.The driving privilege cards were and are illegal which I have to agree
with.As some have said, there should be more business targeted for
breaking the laws also, where immigration, labor, and tax laws are being
Come on, people. This bill is ALL about Sandstrom. He has a HUGE ego and wants
national recognition, period. Immigration just happens to be the convenient
vehicle. I am in his district and will be getting out the vote to retire him.
Have you noticed that those who are against this bill and are for illegal's
being here keep stating that it is a minor offense? They are correct, except
they stop there and don't seem to want to talk about stealing identities,
stealing the tax payers money by using the welfare system, medical care, and
other things by not paying taxes. Why can't they see what they are doing to this
country. It is because it is about them. They are only interested in themselves.
This is about our COUNTRY.
There was a time we had good Mexican People, Legal or not that would come and
work and do a good JOB.Now I am trying to get the same work done with
White, (LDS ) People and the work is SHABBY and not done.I also have Theft
because I am some what Invilid.I can not be watching every Minate.Ameria needs these fine Mexican People to come and do the work White People
refuse to do.Where do you get the idea they are all Criminals?The
Criminals are on here with their HATE.
This was all done by union enorsed leftist, who have no respect for the laws,
unless it favors them. Let me see, these people protesting are for slavery,
which I thought was illegal, low wages, poor working conditions, no benefits, no
legal reparations, abuse, and descrimination. Sounds like the 1800s all over
again. That is what happens when illegals come over. And it's a fact. And
guess what, those bringing in the illegals, or employing them, are doing just
that. It is factual, and documented. My relatives, immigrated the right way.
They had to board a ship, cross an ocean, watch people dye and hope they weren't
one of them, and when finally making it here, went through the right
proceedures. Like everyone else can, and should. Those people should have been
arrested. The talk should be how to make the process work better, not let the
illegals come here, whenever they feel like it.
Wake up people, illegals are being prosecuted for being here unlawfully not
because they are Hispanic. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it
is probably a duck. Look at the statistics. The prisons, the gangs, the ghetto
'neighborhoods' and see why this is becoming such an issue. Look at the
subsidies, social welfare, food stamps, medical care, theft, lack of insurance,
lack of education. Look at the fraud, stolen SSN numbers, bogus driver licenses,
and phony names and id's many of these individuals use to move from place to
place. Look at the lost revenue. Money sent 'home' to other countries to support
families there, unpaid utilites and tne many vacant apartments and homes left in
the middle of the night with unpaid rent due. Places all trashed. Kick them all
out. We don't need a huge underclass of people sponging themselves off the backs
of taxpaying citizens. This country needs work for 'Americans' not 'illegals'.
If you want to put the final nail in the coffin of the US economy just pass
these types of bills. undocumented persons account for a huge portion of
contributions to the economy. for those who really believe that all are a drain
on society, quit being so naive. they pay rent. they buy goceries. they
contribute. i am sure you are not so naive as to believe landlords pay property
taxes from their own pockets. these costs are passed on to lessees. those who
are undocumented included. same with sales tax, gasoline taxes, wake up. We
need all members of our society. undocumented included.
I say we take deportation one step further. Don't stop with Mexicans. Let's
deport all Germans. This will rid ourselves of Nazi white supremacists. Deport
all Italians. No more Mafia. Deport all Russians. This will end Communism.
Deport all Muslims. No more plane crashes into large buildings. Deport all
Chinese. Return us to a truly American diet and end obesity. Deport all
Canadians. Stop the infiltration of white people with expired work visas posing
as Americans. Deport the Irish and end alcoholism. Deport all Africans. This
will end slavery and open up a bunch of jobs for real Americans. Deport all Jews
and drive out the evil banking cartel. Deport everyone from South America. Say
goodbye to the illegal drug trade. Deport all Japanese. Manufacturing will
return to America, more jobs and no more fear of foreign attack. And finally, (I
know these aren't a specific race, but what the heck), deport all lawyers. This
will rid ourselves of about 95% of our real problems in America; presidents,
senators and congressmen that are spending America into oblivion and
perpetrating useless war. We can then return to our real native language, not
English; aboriginal American!
If I were Latino, I would not say this bill is "evil" or equate it to
"terrorism". That simply reinforces in citizens minds that you don't respect the
law and invites even harsher criticism from those proposing tough law
enforcement. Rather, I would acknowledge that illegal immigration is unlawful,
and work with lawmakers to come up with a safisfactory solution.
@ tatch- college kids and Hispanic= clueless and law breakers. Generalizing tha
Hispanics are lawbreakers, not a good idea. And people argue that this law would
not be about racial profiling and racism.
Good work Mr. Sandstrom. Keep up the good work. Finally a few politicians are
coming out and actually looking out for the U. S. taxpayer and doing their job.
I support Sandstrom's position. It is high time we pushed back. ONE THIRD of
all foreign-born are illegal aliens. How much is too much?We already
issue a million green cards a year.As for LDS suggesting that Willes
is expressing the mind and will of the Brethren, his concept has merit. Look at
all the pity pieces they run? They are marketing to Mormons, right?And don't tell me that LDS leaders don't put a bug in the ear of the editors
now and then. This would be a perfect time to do so.It is true that
the Church has not taken a political position, but that doesn't mean that they
don't pray for an amnesty program to release some of the pressure.Personally, when they KNOWINGLY call missionaries who are illegal aliens they
have taken a position.
Stand with Sandstrom or lose more jobs and money due to taxes we pay to support
the illegal's. I want to help causes I want to to help, I don't want the State
of Utah to take money and put into something that just hurts my family and my
way of life. Go Sandstrom.
When will the rights of legal citizens take precedence over illegal citizens?
Are legal citizens just supposed to silently take it and presume that they have
to work harder and longer to pay for services for illegals? Should we all
throw up our hands and let everyone come?
I like the photo caption "A throng of media and protesters..." A throng? Looks
countable to me. Are you too lazy to count them or embarrassed at the low
I support Rep Sandstrom and this immigration bill. It will make it possible for
all legal immigrants of the world to come to the USA, not just the illegals from
Mexico who the racist organizations are supporting. They show no compassion for
the tens of millions of immigrants around the world who are patiently waiting
their turn to come here and do so legally. My son is on a mission and he has a
passport and a visa to be in that country. People in that country who are
trying to come here must wait 12 years to do so. I support legal immigration.
I support your efforts to reign in this problem and to force illegals to comply
with our laws, which is much kinder than what other countries currently do to
illegals. Human nature tends to allow mercy to rob justice, as demonstrated by
the opponents who showed up at the capitol. My only complaint is that illegals
will be turned over to Federal officials, who will probably release illegals
back into society. I have no confidence in our Federal government!
I support you, Rep. Sandstrom. Thank you for moving this forward. We need all
of our states on board against this assault on our country. You have courage,
Sir, and my admiration.
Is it not the Hispanics who are throwing their lot in with illegals? They seem
to be the ones that are fighting such laws tooth and nail. Why? What will
Hispanics lose from such a law? A bunch of their countrymen? Money for the
collection plate? What?
The article states "most of whom were not Latino". But when I look at the
pictures, and remove the reporters, they seem to be Latino's, including some in
brown berets. Did the non-Hispanic's leave before the pictures were
Thank you Rep. Sandstrom. It's about time that someone in this state stands up
for something. Herbert doesn't have a backbone and doesn't ever dare to do
anything unless someone does it first, then he'll always jump on the bandwagon.
LDS, the church has never come out and said it. If anything, if you truly
believe what the brethren have said. You will read in D&C where Christ himself
says he established the Constitution. To obey that law (which Christ
established), we must protect it from crime. Being illegal is a crime buddy.
Read the works of Pres. Benson. He always talked about upholding the
Constitution. Get the facts right before you start spewing out stuff that has no
John Pack Lambert "On what grounds do we ... and tell everyone they have to
change to be like us."I and my family lived in a foreign country
(with a strong anti-American undertow) for 2 years.We could have
easily participated in the local "Anglo-American" network in the area and
surrounded ourselves with other English speakers. We did not.We and our children participated in as much of the local culture and
language as we could. Foreign children were given special lessons for one year
by the local school system to learn the local language. After that, they had to
survive in the local schools with what they had learned. They thrived
academically even to exceed the performance of those born in the local
culture.Within one year, our whole family was fluent and fully
functional in the local national language.I would follow the same
system here: For legal resident aliens (and for perhaps the undocumented), give
them English lessons for one year and then it is up to them to survive in
English from then on. It will challenge them, but they will be the utlimate
beneficiaries.That was my experience as a foreign resident.
Since the representative from Orem seemingly takes great pleasure and indicating
that he hopes this bill will be appealed to the 10 Circuit Court of Appeals in
Denver and then on the Supreme Court, if granted a writ of certitorari. My
question is why we as the citizens of Utah should have to pay for the
adjudication process for this bill just to satisfy the representative ego? For
me this is just another example of wasted Utah State dollars, not unlike our
attempt to regulate cable tv shows. Please spare us the grandstanders and fools
that seem to abide in Utah County!
How come these hard-working illegals are able to stand around protesting? Why
aren't they busy doing those jobs that no one else is willing to do? Maybe
because this is their job to show up at events such as these to carry on and
demand 'their rights'. Being paid by their organizations that are trying to
'overthrow' the American government, you know the one's that gives them those
'counterfeit papers', teaches them how to access our social systems for food,
medical aid, etc. This was done in Calif. twenty years ago, look at it now. Is
this what you want? Just keep pandering to them and you will see. It's a cancer
that needs to be cured. Thank you Mr. Sandstrom for at least addressing the
I was there all the time, richardb, I'm a gringo, I was surprised at the high
percentage of whites in the crowd calling Sandstrom out over his terrible law.
Sure there were latinos, sure there were press guys in suits and ties, and some
other press people with brown skin. But I was there all the time, and it was a
mixed race rally. We were Americans.We gringos, at least some of us, see
clearly that this law is racist, a hammer approach to a small technical problem
that affects many, this law panders to fear and hate. How much better
Sandstrom would do to make it easier for out of country workers to legally enter
the job market. These people want a hand up, not a handout, they want
acceptance, not hateful backlash, they're not an invading army they're just poor
people trying for a better life. In other venues we'd call them heroic for
walking across a desert with their possessions on their backs in search of a
better life. America stands for opportunity. Sandstrom stands in the way.
Sandstrom is only trying to put his name out there. Who is he trying to kid? If
this bill passed here, it will then go to the supreme court. The Supreme court
will look at it and laugh! They will probably say something like: "Mr
Sandstrom, do you think we are stupid!!?? This is the same bill from Arizona
that we just turned down!"
I support "Law and Order". As one reads the comments on this forum
it appears that there are many who desire to replace "Order" with "Ardor".The Lord said, "My house is a house of order."He did not say
"... a house of ardor".Synonyms for ardor = "fervor", "zeal" &
"passion".Synonyms for order (as in a House of Order) "A state of
public peace or conformity to law."Hmmmmm.
Hispanic's made up a large majority of those there. I don't know why it was
reported otherwise. You could watch it on the news, on a number of channels. If I had shown up to a Latino meeting, and talked or interrupted them
like they did Sandstrom, I would of been kicked out, and the sound bite put up
on the Internet. That was very rude.
There is no city or county in the country, whose police officers cannot now -
under existing law - turn over people to ICE.This bill is pointless -
unless racial profiling will be at play.If racial profiling is used, Utah
will waste a lot of money in lawsuits.If it's not used, the law will just
be the publicity stunt Sandstrom hopes will propel him to higher office (see the
recent DNews article on him).The reason cries of "racism" are heard
is because that is what is at issue.Opponents of Mexican immigration
reveal their racism every day. They say it is all about the law. But when
people advocate that the law be changed, they immediately shift to arguing that
would be a bad idea. The MOMENT they make that shift, it all boils down to
race.The fact that the author of the AZ law is LDS has done terrible
harm to the Church throughout Latin America...the place of fastest LDS growth.
Sandstrom seeks to increase that damage a hundredfold.He is not only
an enemy of these people. He is an enemy of the Church.
Just wait for the repurcussions with a Utah linked Mormon bill to the church's
efforts in Mexico and Latin America. It may even affect the White Mormon
settlers in the colonies of Mexico.
"...about 100 protesters (most of whom were not Latino) started chanting "Shame
on Sandstrom."That's NOT true. I was there. Almost all of
the people actually doing the protesting WERE Latino. Protesting with them were
a small smattering of non-Latinos. But the actual protesters were in fact
comprised mostly of Latinos.The press ought to be more careful. Not
all the people there were protesters -- myself, for example. Plus there were a
lot of press there, both Latino and non-Latino.
Clean up this country by deporting illegals! Clean up our law (Un)enforcement
by getting rid of morons like Burbank.
@jimhale | 10:11 a.m. Aug. 14, 2010Your post is full of lies, top to
bottom. It is not about race; it is about illegality and disrespect for the
U.S. If most illegals are of a certain race, that is THEIR fault.And for your information: the Church doesn't need anyone who hates and
If the person is here legal. They should not have fearof being deported.
I'm tired of hearing that illegal aliens are the ONLY ones who will do certain
kinds of work. That's hooey. My dad worked pipeline construction until he was
71 years old. He worked outside in every kind of weather. He suffered
frostbite on the left side of his face from working in Michigan one winter. He
never whined, he never said that anything was too dirty, too hard, too beneath
him to do. He drove a bulldozer and was a union member. For years when he was
laid off from work, he refused to collect unemployment benefits because he
considered it taking from the country, like welfare. My brother had to convince
him that it wasn't dishonorable to collect unemployment benefits. There are
legal citizens who would do ALL the work that is currently being done by
illegals. Remove the illegals and watch it happen.
People who show up for food stamps or other welfare aid should be required to
show some proof of citizenship. Illegals are not authorized to receive welfare
aid.Driving privilege cards should be done away with for illegals.
If the program is continued it should require that the card be renewed yearly
and that the person should show a visa for proof of legality. No illegals
should be allowed to drive. Period.
Ajax: "My impression in this case is that the mantra of
'illegal...illegal...illegal is mostly a convenient pretext.."And my impression is that it actually is a matter of denial...denial...denial
on your part.
LDS people wake up... this same persecution we are seeing on these bills in AZ
(SB1070) and Utah... is similar to the persecution our ancestors (pioneers) had
in Missouri then in Illinois..same excuse too, (law breaking)...sad days are
coming for Utah, unless you STOP it!
Many, many comments.1. The church allows missionaries without
papers to serve as long as they serve within the United States. ICE has agreed
pursuant to a request from a certain very Republican Utah Senator that those
missionaries will not be deported while on missions. 2. True, the
church as well as society encourages obedience to the law; however, let us
remember the admonition, "he who is without sin let him cast the first stone".
Think for a second what this means to all who scream "illegal, illegal,
illegal".3. For Book of Mormon fans, remember the treatment of the
anti-nephi-lehis. 4. The Federal government is doing its part.
There were record deportations this year. The Federal government is
concentrating on aliens convicted of crimes and deportation overstays. Even
McCain today announced he does not support amending the Constitution on the
birth right citizenship issue.
Chileno, illegal immigration and working without authorization are a religion?
"Mr. Sandstrom's bill is not aligned with the values LDS hold dear.The Brethren
are not demanding or commanding, but rather encouraging us to be Christian in
our dealings with these good people. All LDS members should read and follow the
Brethren's counsel in this and all matters."I'm sorry, but I
will not encourage breaking the law under the guise of "compassion". Its
dishonest. "Legally, living here without proper
documents is an infraction on a par with driving five miles over the speed
limit.”As a legal immigrant I find this statement to be highly
offensive. What happened to personal responsibility? This sounds like
breaking the law just a little bit is o.k and is excused. No harm done.
I am a minority and I support this bill. I am brown and grateful that Sandstrom
is pursuing this bill. The illegals that are protesting this bill are arrogant
and rude. I am a naturalized citizen and I want my family too to come here and
join me. Why are we required to follow the rules to get here and a lot people
in the south can just come here illegally and demand "rights". It is not fair
for us who follow the law that they ask amnesty, which is what they want. My
family is waiting in line. It is sickening that illegals are cutting them off
In a study it was found that well over 1500 Utah companies had social security
numbers on their roles that were those of children under the age of 13. they
also found that these social security numbers were used to register for public
assistance.In addition to that, it is estimated nationally that 75%
of working age illegal immigrants are using falsified or stolen social security
numbers to obtain employment.I would have more sympathy for illegals if
they weren't so blatantly committing identity theft and fraud amongst many other
crimes.To call illegals undocumented workers is a false statement. They
have all the documents they need and in many cases its yours and your neighbors
children whose identity they are using to obtain documentation.I
tire of those who argue for what they "feel" is the right thing to do. More
effort must be taken to actually see the harm illegal immigration is doing to
@ Chileno - wrong! Not even the same issue.As for: "Legally, living
here without proper documents is an infraction on a par with driving five miles
over the speed limit.”That may be so but it's still not right.
HOWEVER, the bigger issue is if you are here and working you have either stolen
a SS number (which is a felony I believe) or you're getting paid under the table
which is tax fraud (also a felony, I believe).To the person who said
to deport all of the Germans, Italians, etc., etc. Darn right, if they are here
illegally they should be deported also.Do you think I'm racist?
Probably, but I have one Grandfather who is Mexican (born there) and another one
who was born in Germany. Dang, I must be one conflicted soul!
StandAlone | 1:38 p.m. Aug. 14, 2010"As a legal immigrant I find
this statement to be highly offensive. What happened to personal responsibility?
This sounds like breaking the law just a little bit is o.k and is excused. No
harm done"The biggest problem with the comparison is that it want's
us to believe that the only crime committed by illegals is simply being here
illegally. The truth is the vast majority of illegals have committed multiple
crimes such as illegally crossing the border, identity theft and fraud.
cerana | 1:41 p.m. Aug. 14, 2010I am proud to call you a fellow
Those who are brown will see increases in the number of violations especially
those who have never had any type of violations. This is an assimiliation
policy that will not work, but it will have people "frowning when they see
@dave4197"Sandstrom has a terrible bill."I agree. The
bill should have included checking all IDs for all stops and for all occupants
in the stopped vehicle, where credit cards are used, at banks, were welfare is
handed out, and a dozen other places. And identified illegals should
immediately be fined the maximum legal penalty and deported.It
should have included no driving licenses or driving privilege cards. These
people are here illegally. They should have zero privileges. And, in no way
All states should have a law similar to Arizona or Utah's. Why can't the
Federal Government inforce the law? Why can the Obama administration pick and
choose which laws to enforce? Time to get rid of these jokers.
@CB"How come these hard-working illegals are able to stand around
protesting? Why aren't they busy doing those jobs that no one else is willing to
do?"Because, in alotta cases, they are living off their anchor
baby's welfare income. SLars"Hispanic's made up a
large majority of those there."And soon Hispanics will make up the
majority while WASPS will be relegated to the ranks of minorities. Why do you
think they are so vociferousness over immigration? They want their race
(ethnicity) to take over the US."I don't know why it was reported
otherwise. You could watch it on the news, on a number of channels."Speaking of 'channels,' my TV cable has more than two dozen Hispanic only
channels. It makes me madder-n heck. What's going on?
All is not well in Zion! Having served an LDS mission in Utah, nowhere was
prejudice more strongly than in Utah. When asking families about their
neighbors, we would get the response, we don't let our kids play with theirs
because they are not Mormon. It was amazing how this attitude changed the
farther away from Salt Lake we went. The same can be said for our brown
neighbors. Oh no, we can't play with them, they may be illegal. Therein is the crux, they may be illegal. How to tell. A family I know fled
Guatemala 20 years ago, applied for asylum and was granted permission to stay.
20 years later, USCIS decides to deny their case and tries to deport them while
their US citizen son serves in Iraq. Again, for 20 years they had legal status
and it was taken away by one shortsighted officer. Fortunately, the immigration
judge overruled the INS and allowed them to stay. But again to their neighbors
they were legal for 20 years and then one day illegal. How to tell. Impossible
without racial profiling under this bill.
Go for it ! The more States that join in maybe it will sink into Obama's head
that the Federal Government should do something!
It's funny. In the Lds missionary rulebook it tells missionaries not to suggest
or encourage immigration. But I guess they forgot about that. But I guess
illegal immigration is an unjust law if the church is not honoring, obeying, and
susatining this law. So which is it liberals do you want prisonlike federal
government control that will creat your sick "utopia"? or do you want anarchy
which not altering this law will definatley bring to the united states? you
can't have it both ways.
They are not even protected by the constitution because they are not citizens.
If they commit a crime, all they have to do is flee to their home country and
they will get away with it because their country won't extrdite them back to the
We're seriously worried that this bill might instill fear among the illegal
community? Isn't fear a deterrent to commiting a crime (like illegally invading
another country) in the first place?? Why do I not drive 85 miles per hour?
Fear of getting caught.
I am shocked to see supporters of illegal immigration. There is a huge
community in Utah that run a well-oiled machine, with a pipeline bringing people
here illegally, providing them a home, job, new identity, and targets young
couples that are expecting or plan on kids very soon. Once they're here, they
learn how to take advantage of taxpayer services to optimize additional
opportunities. This operation is about as ethically dispicable you can get.Illegal immigration is nothing short of an invasion, and now we're
facing an uprising.
No matter how many protest the Immigration Bill(AZ) or Utah's bill the fact
remains...IF YOU ARE NOT A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA YOU HAVE NO
RIGHTS OR PRIVILEGES. There are no exceptions to the law no matter the race, or
color of skin. If we tried to live in your country we would have to be citizens
and it is no different in the United States of America. The LDS Church has
nothing to do with this law except we are taught to obey the laws of the land.
All those who are here illegally should all go home and start over and do it the
legal way. You are not an exception and until you become a citizen you will NOT
have any rights. We owe you nothing. So no matter how much you demand rights,
they will not be yours until you become a citizen of the United States of
America. That's just the way it is. You will not be welcome here until you have
taken steps to be legal.
Now what !!!Every latino with the David's star in their shoulder
!!!That's one of many other reasons why our country is going down
!Utah you will suffer for this decisions...
This bill is going nowhere, have we fogotten 3rd Nephi chapters 20 and 21? We
better revist those and we'll know what is going to happen.
My question is quite basic: if immigration issues are governed by federal law,
and employment issues are governed by state law, why are state lawmakers trying
to make federal law? When they should be making state law?We live in
the United States of America, where there are federal laws and there are state
laws -- an lawmakers for each, and law enforcers for each. Why is Sandstrom, a
state lawmaker, trying to make federal law? That's unconstitutional, and such
laws -- while making racists and others feel good -- will be struck down as
unconstitutional.Federal law and law enforcement should be pursued
at the proper level.Now, a state lawmaker can make a law about an
employer doing something illegal, and create penalties and state law enforcement
agencies can enforce such laws.In the end the question is why are we
going after the poor worker and not after the employer who is exploiting the
worker? What about the employer who deducts taxes for a SS# that is fraudulent?
Doesn't the employer bare responsibility.The state government
should crack down on illegal employers -- and the federal government should
crack down on illegal immigrants.Sandstrom has it wrong again.
Shame on Rep. Sandstrom, he only gives a bad name for the good state of Utah.
Clearly is a racist bill. I hope and pray that wiser heads in the Capitol
prevail and do not allow this sinister bill go into law.
Oh yes tiger1, shame on him for trying to protect our state from a bunch of
illegal immigrants. It's not racism, it's called protection. They are here
ILLEGALLY. That is a crime, just as if you were to do something illegal, you
should get punished. Read the bill and realize what it is really for.
one day... | 11:25 p.m. Aug. 14, 2010More fear mongering. Gotta
love it.Shame on you for comparing illegal immigrants to victims of
the holocaust. Illegals are not victims, they chose to come here and will suffer
the consequences of their criminal activity.It's irresponsible
rhetoric such as this that only proves that your cause is built upon the
proverbial sand.fairfield | 12:45 a.m. Aug. 15, 2010"why
are state lawmakers trying to make federal law? When they should be making state
law?"The state is not making federal law, they are making state law
that supports federal law. They are doing this because the federal government
is either unable or unwilling to enforce the law."What about the
employer who deducts taxes for a SS# that is fraudulent? Doesn't the employer
bare responsibility."Employers currently are not required to verify
whether or not a SSN number is valid. There needs to be a provision in the bill
that requires all employers to utilize the E Verify system. This still would not
help in cases where employers pay under the table.
Representative Sandstrom, just let legal, law-abiding US CITIZENS know when and
where you are announcing any amendmendments to this bill and we will support you
The REAL illegal aliens are the racist white imperialists that, if they don't
get their way just start a war in the name of peace, take over land (because the
original land owners are not capable of being good stewards) and then "allow"
those that are victims of the land grab the "privilege" of staying and
maintaining a few granted rights. Learn your history folks. James Polk illegally
annexed Texas; land which was owned by Mexico. The US wanted to "buy" the land
west of the Mississippi to claim see to shining sea. This was called Manifest
Destiny. When Mexico said thanks, but no thanks, Polk started a war against
Mexico and ran the Mexicans out of Texas to south of the border. The Mexicans
have been trying to go back home ever since. This didn't happen all that long
ago. And you imperialists sit there thinking that the Mexicans should just shut
up and bow to the white man and obey the LAW? Please! Sandstrom is a white
supremacist imperialist and so is anyone that continues to cripple a race of
people that has been the victim of crime for over 160 years. READ YOUR HISTORY!
To Sandstrom, the weekend's here, make it a great one. I don't
think he's a reactionary pol seeking national spotlight as some are saying.His ideas are so fresh. They just feel right as I sit typing on this
warm summer's eve. He understands that keeping the laws equates to public
cleanliness - and, that clean, fresh feeling keeps the good times on my mind.
It is natural for us to want to enforce our borders. Naturally fresh. Go
Yes, Go Sandstrom, go out out of the State of Utah to promote your racist law!
NOT in our home!
One big Stupid law that is going to Hurt even moreReform the Law now or
why bother.Americans have lived with mexican/Americans for Years= will
forever continuedwith in Familymembers have been Born/raised in USA
wrz | 6:37 p.m. Aug. 13, 2010 I noticed you did not answer my
question.Adultery by far does more damage to our country then any other
class B misdemeanor, the number of verified homicides connected to adultery
exceeds any connected to illegal immigration. The cost to society is billions
more then illegal immigration and the law is unenforced.I would say that
speeding is a bigger problem in this country then illegal immigration.If
your house is burning down, you do not worry about some hungry guy eating apples
off of your tree.The illegal immigrant did not cause the recession.They did not make gas go over $4.00 a gallon starting the dominos going.Illegal immigration is a minor problem that has been blown out of proportion
because it is easier to pick on the poor then admit the real problems in our
country.And I am not falling for it, concentrate on the real problems, and
leave the poor Mexicans alone!
We are a Nation of laws? Are we? If i drive a robber to a bank hiest and wait
for him to commit the crime and he murders people in the bank the law holds me
culpable as an accomplice. Then I propose that anyone who enables an illegal is
an accomplice to any crime he commits, ie; drug sales, murder, rape and kidnap.
Do you enable illegals by providing jobs, cover for their illegality, giving
driving permits, social security, instate college tuttion, sanctuary cities?
Then in the eyes of the law are you not just as guilty of murder as the illegal
that pulled the trigger?Lets get serious about illegals. Offer a
$10,000 reward for the arrest and conviction of any employer who employes an
illegal. Conviction of said employer should carry a fine of $1,000,000 and five
years imprisonment for each offence. How soon do you think 20,000,000 illegals
will find their way home?On "anchor babies". Make them return home
with their illegal parents until they are 21 years old and then thay can return
to claim their citizenship. Alone and with no provisions for any other family
re: JerryYou can not force American citizens to leave the country,
many of the so called “anchor babies” do not even speak Spanish.I do not even know if it is legal to take a US citizen into Mexico to live,
they may put all the kids on a bus and send them back to the US, The US can not
stop legal citizens from entering the US.What would happen is that the
state of Utah would have to take custody of the children, if their parents are
shipped out of the country.They will try and place the kids with legal
family members if any are available.If no family is found, the child will
be in a foster home.Being a ward of the state, they will be under
Medicaid, and whoever takes care of them will receive monies for doing so.It is cheaper to leave the parents alone, let them work, and raise their kids
in the United States, then take custody of millions of legal US children.If you do not like it then change the 14th amendment.
@MenaceToSociety: Your comments about stay at home Mom's and housewives is
sickening. How dare you talk about them that way. Many of them can't find
jobs. You are disgusting to talk about our citizens that way. The fact is,
many people who have done jobs for over 20 years are now finding themselves
without jobs and even though they are looking for what you call "jobs Americans
won't do" they can't find a job. And for most people, there is not a job they
won't do. It's just taken up by illegals. I had a son apply at McDonalds when
he got laid off from his construction job and he was told they wouldn't even
talk to him unless he could speak Spanish. See anything wrong with this???? I
sure do! The illegals have taken over and it's about time some of you bleeding
hearts realize it. Maybe when the lack of jobs or the stealing affects you
personally, you will change your tune.
re hprI did construction when I was like 12 years old.Fast
food jobs do not require much more.Why should your son be competing with
mexicans for a fast food job?If he is an american then he should be doing
more then construction and fast food.Tell him to go to school and get some
employable skills.There is less competiton on the top.
I will be happy to carry a certified copy of my birth certificate with me. I
will keep it, and one for my wife and children, neatly hidden away in my
vehicle. When the officer pulls me over, as they invariably do every year or so,
I will proudly display them and answer any questions he, or she, may have about
my nationality. I will do all this just to make the those that
support illegal immigration STOP calling enforcement unconstitutional. Illegal
immigrants are breaking the law.
voluntaryist: OK will do. Let me know when and where, I'll pack my Birth
Certificate, State Issued ID, oh and I won't forget my Passport either. Just
visit the first Consul I can find, call my folks and have them wire the funds
for a ticket. You see I can do that because I reside in the US
legally, and would be a fully documented foreigner in another country. As a US
citizen I feel it is my responsibility to be fully prepared an within the limits
of the laws of this or any country I may find myself in.
re: youwerewrongwell you would have fit right in during world war 2
Vidar: Typical response from someone who supports illegal immigration. Your fear
mongering by comparing this law to Nazism is as irresponsible as those comparing
Obama to Hitler for his Socialist lean. Nothing in the Constitution
states that when I commit a crime, my life and status are free from inspection,
and those who immigrate illegally have committed more than one crime.
I suggest a new sponsorship program. I am LDS and I obey the laws of the land.
I believe in appealing when their is serious concerns. I would like to suggest
that due to the huge number of suspected illegals, we offer a sponsorship
program? If a citizen of the USA wants to see to it that an illegal can stay in
America and get citizenship, they can sponsor them in a new program, providing a
temporary card identifying the sponsor and their contact information. Then if
someone is stopped by the police, the sponsor would be asked specific questions,
and have to have specific answers to show that the correct person is carrying
the card, and is indeed sponsored by them. An expiration date would be on the
sponsorship card. It would be the sponsors job to see to it that they are not
abusing our rights. Having lived in three different countries, I would
want any law that concerns me to be written in English. I didn't expect it, but
that would have been the best way for me to know about the law.
Patriot, remember also that Jesus said, "He who is without sin, let him cast the
first stone." Those who are LDS. Read your Book of Mormon regarding
the promises made to the Lamanites. Many people believe these folks from Central
and Southern America are descended from the Lamanites. If so, what does that
mean to you?
RE: youwerewrong 4:19 August 18You mean of course nothing in
the constitution prohibits laws like in Arizona except for the 4th and 5th
amendments?4th: The right of the people to be secure in their
persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and
seizures, shall not be violated5th: nor shall be compelled in
any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life,
liberty, or property, without due process of law; Of course in Nazi
Germany they did not have these kinds of rights, people could be stopped without
cause and asked for their “papers”You seem like you are more
comfortable and happy with their system of government.In this
country we have laws that even the police have to obey, the primary law being
RE: YouWereWrongOh, and before you say that illegal immigrants do
not have constitutional rights.How do the police know who and who is not a
citizen?It can also be argued that everyone, citizen or not, is protected
under the constitution if they are in this country.
Vidar: Again with the Nazi Germany reference. Don't you have any other
arguments?I specifically agree they are covered by the Constitution
as clearly ruled in several cases, both Federal and Supreme.But you
still prove my point. The 4th Amendment, I have the right, as do each of us, NOT
to have our identities (persons, papers, effects, you choose) stolen.
Additionally, during the discovery of a crime, the Supreme Court held in Terry
v. Ohio that all an officer is required to show is "Articulable" Suspicion. If
they can do that, they have not effected unreasonable search or seizure.In other words, if they can clearly articulate why they suspect someone
of a crime, they can continue investigating. Not my Judgment, just the Supreme
Courts. Furthers my argument of discovery.