Comments about ‘Mormons need to work to increase favor’

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Published: Saturday, Aug. 7 2010 12:44 a.m. MDT

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onewhotries

To me the best way to get ones' point across, be it religion or otherwise, is to be sincere in your relationship with other people. We can't say we have the fullness of the teachings of Jesus Christ if we shun certain people and judge them, whether by color,race, habits, or beliefs. We can't say 'what you have is good now let us give you more', if we act or behave in such a way that non-mormons will feel we think we're better then they are.
I think it would help to listen to what Mr. Lawrence said and consider it without emotion; just the facts.

Truly living our religion is the best example.

Loving others,being kind, patient, long suffering,teaching and preparing our children to do the same, will do more good than complaining or being offended. Then, just maybe, our neighbors, coworkers,and all others will want to know what it is, that we have, that helps us to be this way; especially as the world is today.

We are charged to spread the restored gospel and we can....with His love.

Tlingit

@dave | 1:05 p.m. Aug. 7, 2010

While I'm sure you found it emotionally satisfying claim to have superior understanding (while belittling and mocking the understanding and lifestyle of others) ...

In reality, you seem much less self-aware than the Mormons you love to loathe.

Contrary to your double speak, when you label Utah's laws as "foolish" and serving "no practical purpose," you are most definitely judging "the validity of these laws."

And you were most definitely NOT just writing "as to why people do not like mormons."

You were telling Mormons to change their laws to be more like other states.

The "truth" is there for us all to read and re-read.

BTW, you aren't the only person with an outsiders' perspective on Mormons.

I am a convert to the Mormon church, as is my wife.

We lived all our lives in England and Alaska and are somewhat recent residents of Utah.

Anyway, I enjoyed the insights from this article, many of them confirming what I've long believed.

But Utah doesn't have to change its laws and beliefs to prove it is world-friendly.

That's YOUR agenda.

Joggle

Regarding onewhotries post:

You say: Loving others, being kind, patient, long suffering,teaching and preparing our children to do the same, will do more good than complaining or being offended. Then, just maybe, our neighbors, coworkers,and all others will want to know what it is, that we have, that helps us to be this way;

Don't you see how insulting that is to non-Mormons? We don't need your religion to be that very same way, too. Your post insinuates non-Mormons AREN'T that way or that people NEED your religion to be that way.

LOL

Mormonism is widely regarded as a cult.
Some view it as a folk religion.
Others see it as not a religion at all, but as a political movement with obvious business overtones.
Frankly I think Glenn Beck is doing a tremendous disservice to the Mormon people with his bizarre government-hating tirades, day after day after day ...
This is becoming very tiresome to mainstream America and might explain why our youth (the future) are registering as Democrats in droves.

The Atheist

to onewhotries,

You wrote:

"We can't say 'what you have is good now let us give you more', if we act or behave in such a way that non-mormons will feel we think we're better then they are..."

I challenge you to identify what I have that you consider "good" and then build upon it with anything that you think I LACK - and do so without implying that what you have, and therefore YOU are "better" than me and what I have...

I will be eagerly waiting to read your response...

Tlingit

@ The Athiest

Thank you for your honest (and non-mean spirited) comments. Believe it or not, as a very active Mormon, I couldn't agree more.

I am wondering what you think of what "John-Dude" wrote.

@John-Dude

I REALLY appreciated your comments as well. In fact, I think you and "The Atheist" made the most intelligent, well-thought-out comments yet.

As a convert to the Church, I've always CRINGED at the recruitment mentality, as well as the us-them mentality (even between wards in Church sports).

None of it is healthy really.

I and my loved ones converted to the Church as a direct result of natural and real friendship, coupled with a testimony of the Spirit.

Not because we were netted by the recruitment program of the month.

Alberta Reader

Joggle
Glad to see you read my post and responded. Your response though just furthers my impression of your attitude in general. Sometimes the truth hurts to hear. You leave me no choice but to judge you in the way you post.
I do know all people have good qualities and you would be no exception. However you come across as not liking, or feel you don't need religion in general, and more specifically do not like the LDS faith.
If you don't want me to consider you pessimistic then try some positive comments. You have been on at least 3 LDS related articles this week and every post is Negative. This is the only side of you are showing that is how I draw my conclusions.
Like I did I know you will think about what I said.
If all else fails stay away from DN LDS Newline and you won't be so irritated

dave

Tlingit | 2:48 p.m. Aug. 7, 2010

Take my advice or leave it. It's worth what you paid.

Nobody wants anyone to change their beliefs. If the laws are a reflection of the belief.... Well.. That's another issue.

Again, I am telling you why I dislike mormonism. It is my opinion. As long as I am legally discriminated against I will continue to discriminate against my oppressor. My way is to avoid mormon owned businesses, buy my wine, etc from out of state and spread the word about Utah's evil empire... Utah is my home, I own a business and love it due to the geography... nothing else.

Vanka

Joggle has said it well.

I am reminded of a scene from an X-Men movie where a human doctor says they "just want to help the mutants". The "mutant" responds: "Do we look like we need your help?"

It is offensive, patronizing, arrogant, and blind to presume you have some sort of "truth" that everyone else is lacking, and feel it your duty to "enlighten" those of us so "unworthy" to be unable to "see" your "truth".

The very language you use is filled to the brim with presumptuous, offensive terms and ideas, and betrays your [erroneous] assumptions of moral superiority.

Until you honestly and sincerely strip away such deeply-seated arrogance and pretense, you will continue to be looked upon with disdain.

Protectourfreedoms

How can you "increase favor" when there is censorship of ideas and facts the Mormon Church find uncomfortable. The Catholic Church tried this with the abuse of children. It blew back in their faces. Every time Mormons censor someone because they share facts which they know are true and verifiable it just makes them all the more determined to expose the truth.

You would say you believe in democratic freedoms. What about freedom of the press? What about freedom of religion? These freedoms can only exist when views, which individuals or churches do not agree with, are able to be expressed freely and openly. When this is not the case there exists a dangerous theocratic dictatorship. If Mormons want to work toward increasing favor they must protect democratic freedoms. One of the reasons why Mormons are viewed with disfavor and distrust is because many people know they are being anything but candid about their founder, doctrines and practices.

PJ

Its all about "persecution" and "perception"...Please stop! My beef is and always will be the history, things like Mountain Meadows and the lack of accountability and acknowledgment by leaders and members. Also polygamy, a very questionably lifestyle, yet the church is at the forefront of banning same-sex marriages. My point is, if you are Mormon then you support everything your church does, including whats in the past. Nobody is perfect, including you.

notever

I grew up around Mormons and their church. I can sit in a group of strangers and in a few minutes, tell who is Mormon. If you know them, they give themselves away quite quickly. Sooner or later they just have to mention "our church" even if they are the only Mormon in the group. If they are Mormon from Utah or Idaho, they also have many cultural oddities that they do or say. There is even a way of talking that you only find with Utah and Idaho Mormons. It is almost a regional accent. That is how all consuming the church is.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

The nicest people I ever met at Church were in a ward in Provo. True there were a set of husband and wife Hispanics originally from Arkansas and Texas, but they had lived in Provo for a few years and the wife called me "mi hijo" (my son, a term of endearment) from the moment I met them.

To Demiurge,
I know lots of Mormons who were born and raised in California. Some are converts to the Church, many life-long members. Contrary to your view the Mormons are not some outside invaders, but real citizens of California who have probably lived in California longer, on average, than the population as a whole.

I think B's question "If you feel unwelcome in Utah, what have you done to change that" is a good one. I would say to members of the Church that they need to read Elder Ballard's talks on being a Christian neighbor and start living by his teachings.

However, I think we all need to realize things can be improved and be willing to try.

atl134

One of the big problems is that our most visible aspect might be missionaries who are often viewed as similar to door-to-door salesmen (and those are often viewed as annoying and manipulative). Heck, even this article reads like a "do and do not" guide on converting people.

atl134

" Anybody who will ask with a sincere heart will know for themselves whether its true or not. So, you are right, people can really know. Thats the beauty of the LDS church. Don't believe me, find out for yourself that God lives and answers the searching prayer to him.
"

This... this whole "if you're sincere you would end up believing the way I do" thing. Very annoying and arrogant, and I'm LDS myself.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

qupilot,
Things can change. There is atually progress being made in getting people to recognize that since The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is referred to as being "commonly known as the Mormon Church" to be a Mormon a person must be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Owl

Evangelicals will never give the LDS Church an even assessment nor will the far left.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Bob Smith,
Catholics don't proselytize? You have an awful lot to learn. Catholics are among the most active proselytizers in the world.

I do not hate Jehovah's Witnesses. People knowking on your door is not "an invasion of privacy".

First off, even if someone knocks on your door, nothing forces you to open it. second, if you do open it, you can always just shut it. I had enough doors slammed in my face as a missionary to know that that is a perfectly possible option.

Actually, the Church does all sorts of outreach efforts. The Church sponsors all sorts of service projects in various communities. Today was the culmination of a project in my stake where people donated back packs and school supplies and then they were distributed to needy children in Detroit.

Then there are the family history centers. The majority of the patrons at the family history center I volunteer at, in fact the vast majority, are from other faiths. I want to say a majority are Catholic, but I really do not know.

Obviously the Church and individual members could do a lot more, but we are doing something.

atl134

"I think it so funny that people think the LDS Church was the only Church in on the prop 8 battle. I am sure if many of our friends outside of the LDS faith looked in to it they would find many of their Churches were just as invoved if not more!!"

LDS represented 50% of the money and 75% of the volunteer hours for the pro-8 side despite being 2% of californians... my LDS church being singled out in particular is justifiable.

atl134

"I do not think prop 8 hurt the LDS Church one bit! in fact, it actually helped it's perception not only here in California but Nationwide! "

You must not have liberal friends because I repeatedly had friends tell me that they hated the church pretty much solely because of this (they were previously neutral, thinking of us as a quirky christian group). I had zero cases of people expressing the reverse.

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