Comments about ‘Mormonism moving beyond its infancy, scholars say at Sunstone’

It is remarkable that the world-wide Church today is structured by the revelations recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, nearly all of which were received by Joseph Smith while the Church was much smaller and rural. These revelations, many received when the church membership numbered in the hundreds, detailed a structure that has served a membership of 14 million.

A little-noticed trend in the maturation of the Church is the far more intense focus of most members of our foundation scripture, the Book of Mormon. Not only are members much more avid in their reading of the Book of Mormon, but they are reading it in a way that is rooted far more explicity in the text. Most members very clear in the assertion of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, and our discussions both in formal church settings and informally in our homes on King Benjamin's address, Lehi's dream, and Alma's teachings on faith are far more detailed and nuanced than ever before.

Finally, more Church members than ever are temple worthy and temple attenders. All of these are hallmarks of a mature faith.

It's great to see the church growing in all lands, and in all places.

25 years ago we moved to Seattle there was 1 Mission and 1 new Temple.

Today there is 7 temples from that 1 distcrict, and 3 Missions in Seattle proper.

Most members are not only outside of Utah - but are outside of the United States!

Too bad so many here are still stuck in the quirky little church in the desert.

The stone continues to roll forth...

Jon Butler, professor of American history at Yale University, engaged in a conversation about the characteristics of "new religious movements when they are no longer new."

Butler said for a denomination to form from its roots as a new religious movement, it needs "bureaucracy and ethic," which organizes believers in ways that allow congregations to form and leadership to articulate principles by which the faith is governed.


"Bureaucracy and ethic," is what Satan uses to bind
Gods children in the quagmire of paperwork, time wasting and position for status and Ethic for carnal and mortal values. Inspiration and prophecy are devoid in that agenda. Being callled of God replaces "bureaucacy" and virtue replace "ethics"

An interesting article. Too bad more space was not given to explore the ideas. However, what I believe binds the Church together is is not the ideas presented. To a lesser or greater extent, those who belong to the Church receive revelation through the Holy Ghost, something very absent outside of the Church. The Church has survived not because of it's structure, bureaucracy, or ethic; but because people find the truth through what has been revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. There is so little truth outside of the Church that the LDS faithful as well as other honest people outside of the Church find it truly a spring of water springing up to eternal life in a background of darkness, confusion, and sin. Truly, Lehi's dream is being realized.

Interesting article. Interesting to see what other "scholars" are thinking about the church.

BroJoseph,

I'm not exactly sure what you're arguing here. It seems you are saying that any sort of bureaucracy in religion is bad. If that's the case, you're advocating a type of personal spirituality, separate from organized religion. That does not change the article at all. All the scholars were arguing is that the Mormon church is a mature organized religion.

If that's not what you're arguing, you probably have a poor sense of the word bureaucracy. It's not actually a bad word. Within the Mormon faith they call this doing things according to order, or being organized. If you don't think the church has bureaucracy, take a look at the Church Office Building, or said another way (according to literal meaning), the Church Bureau Building.

The church organization is bureaucratic in many ways. Consider this definition of bureaucracy:

"characterized by specialization of functions, adherence to fixed rules, and a hierarchy of authority."

I'm not sure that bureaucracy is the problem...it is the attitude and motives of individuals working in the system that is the problem.

The LDS faith constricts freedom of thought. They are horrified if someone officially leaves the church. They do what they can to prevent it with fear tactics..I know..I went through it. How about actual statistics of intellectuals leaving the church? The numbers would be amazing to the public.

Mormonism moving beyond its infancy????

Does that mean that only infants-with their limited knowledge-believe in Mormonism?

What happens when they get educated?

Rigid rules? Check out the Bishop's Handbook of Instructions.
Dissent? anyone remember the Saturday Seven?
Personal Revelation? If it doesn't exactly match your Priesthood Leader, you'd better keep your mouth shut.

Kay: As a member of the LDS Church I am not "horrified" when someone decides to leave the Church, but I definitely feel concern that person because I truly do believe in the doctrines of the Church. Church leaders intentionally make it difficult for someone to remove their name from Church records, not because we care about numbers, but we care about the eternal well-being of each person. To us it is a serious thing to leave the Church and many regret it later. The "fear tactics" are only used to make sure that the person knows what the spiritual consequences are when one rejects what to us is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

My neighbors have turned away from the church and I feel such love and concern for their family as I see them doing things they would never have done before, things that could lead to pain and destruction in their lives. I hope that they will change their minds and come back. I hope that the encouragement that I give them to think about this choice will help.

@kay

"When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not." (2 Nephi 9:28)

I know of this syndrome. It began to happen to me while getting my engineering degree. Boy am I glad I didn't succumb to the foolishness, and relied on my faith, and added science to my religious truths, rather than letting it be a poor replacement for them. Now my eyes have been opened in unimaginable way to those that have blinded themselves to the things of the spirit.

Of course I am horrified when someone willingly closes their spiritual eyes, and over time, becomes blinded to things of the spirit. They miss out on so much more that there is to life, if only they had kept their eyes open.

(continued)

I have never seen anyone use fear tactics. I have seen love extended, on many occasions. Sometimes, the person going through such an emotional experience is a little too close to have an objective view of others' actions towards them.

I have seen studies that show actual numbers about the number of "intellectuals" in religion, in general, and in the LDS church, specifically. Apparently, the numbers would actually surprise YOU!

"Studies of Mormons in the US show that Mormons with higher education attend church more regularly than uneducated Mormons. Survey research indicated that 41% of Mormons with only elementary school education attend church regularly. By contrast, 76% of Mormon college graduates attend church regularly and 78% of Mormons who went beyond their college degrees to do graduate study attend church regularly."
(from wikipedia: Religiosity_and_intelligence)

Kay, you don't overwhelm me with intellect. I've had a difficult time understanding why some people who choose to leave the church have such hard feelings about it. It wasn't for you, you decided to leave the church. The end.

"Too bad so many here are still stuck in the quirky little church in the desert."

Hm. I lived the first 34 years of my life in CA, with negative attitudes towards Utah Mormons. Then I moved here nearly a decade ago. And I love it and will never willingly go back. I love the big wards. I love the variety of members here, the opportunities for friendships, especially for my kids.

In the ward I grew up in, over half the young women ended up as teen single mothers, and some of the young men ended up in prison. Less than 10% remained in the church as adults. As a young mother, the wards I lived in were better, but still had far too many kids lost to the influences around them. In the wards I've lived in here in Utah, they lose less than 10% of the kids by adulthood.

When I was a kid, the comments were that Utahns didn't really have to have a testimony, just go with the flow. I don't think that's so anymore, the outside culture is inescapable. There's just more support here to survive it.

Mc | 10:45 a.m. Aug. 6, 2010

My neighbors have turned away from the church and I feel such love and concern for their family as I see them doing things they would never have done before, things that could lead to pain and destruction in their lives. I hope that they will change their minds and come back. I hope that the encouragement that I give them to think about this choice will help.

==============

Are you going to remain "friends"?

Shunning, or turning your back is about the worst thing you could possibly do.

Read up on Lost sheep.

People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.

kay | 9:48 a.m. Aug. 6, 2010

Sorry to hear that.

Tell me, was it a point of Doctrine? or perhaps the way someone treated you?

I like doing my own investigation and put together a root cause analysis.

Thanks

MC:

You said "Church leaders intentionally make it difficult for someone to remove their name from Church records".

That's NOT TRUE. I just served as a Bishop for almost 6 years and went through this process a few times. The process is SIMPLE. (1) You send a letter to your Bishop requesting name removal,(2) Bishop sends letter back saying your name will be removed by such and such a date and that if you change your mind before that date, the process will be halted (that has happened), (3) Name Removal Form signed off by Bishop and Stake President, (4) Name removed from MIS.

Yes, there is a record of those who have their names removed because there are times when those people want to REJOIN the Church (it does happen) but no local leaders have access and you will not show up on any "lists" as being a member.

Re: Demisana

Well said.