Well "Boomer Jeff" let me point out a few things to you. When the LDS came to
the Great Basin they were fleeing the United States. They "invaded" Mexican
territory. Moreover, the United States did the same thing (as you indirectly
point out). When I was a kid we all read the novel "Ramona" by Helen Hunt
Jackson. It was set in California during the transition phase from the old
Spanish rights system to the U S system. It's still a good read, BTW. One of
its lessons is that Americans and Mexicans are joined at the hip whether they
want to be or not. A solution north of the border requires a solution south.
For starters, the United States should acknowledge that the bloodshed in the
northern Mexican states is our fault because of our insatiable desire for
illegal drugs. End the idiotic war on drugs and go from there.
Lane Myers,Your 11:25 post was a little shocking. I
don't put any restrictions on my fellow citizens. That's not my job. I have no
authority to tell them how to live or what to do. If they have a house, I don't
tell them that they have too many people living there. If they want to speak a
different language, I don't tell them that they offend me. They're citizens.
They have the freedom to do anything that is legal and lawful without fearing
that I'm going to make their lives miserable.There are plenty of
stores where the prices are posted in a language that I understand and the
people who work there speak a language that I understand. I am not forced to
leave my comfort zone when shopping. But I do remember how good it felt when I
lived in Belgium and France to be able to speak to someone using English. I know
just how those whose native language is not English must feel.
're: PaganI think you meant USDA employee Shirley Sherrod; not Nevada
Senate candidate Sharon Angle.' - Counter Intelligence | 11:29 a.m.
Your right. Sharon Angle likes to use '2nd amendment (gun)
remedies' if the 'people' don't vote according to what she thinks needs to
be. However, your own verbage of 'victim status' speaks volumes.
That somehow being black enables you? 'Income gap between black,
white families grows' - AP - 11/13/07 Line:'Incomes among
black men have actually declined in the past three decades, when adjusted for
inflation.' And what commnets are you talking about? The one's that
were edited with a purpose to make a person appear racist? But it's
ok! Because Fox AND CNN did it! And the Tea Party! 'Dear
Mr. Lincoln We Coloreds have taken a vote and decided that we don't cotton
to that whole emancipation thing. Freedom means having to work for real, think
for ourselves, and take consequences along with the rewards. That is just far
too much to ask of us Colored People and we demand that it stop!...'
Mark Williams - Spokesman for the Tea Party Express - White
Brigham Young, in 1846, also sent members of the church to fight with the US
government against Mexico to secure land (New Mexico, Arizona, Utah ,etc),
called the Mormon Battalion. John Florez, why don't you use that in your
"history lesson" of a changing world. You are only using "selective history" to
further your illegal immigration cause, please tell the whole truth.
Mike R: " I don't know of anyone who is complaining about LEGAL immigrants."I do. They are complaining that they have opened stores and all
the advertising is in Spanish. They complain that they do not speak English.
They complain that they have more people living in their home than the rest of
the neighborhood and drive the value of homes down because of it. Never heard these complaints?
'Under the current administration; race-baiting is the primary method of
inflicting fear' - Counter Intelligence | 10:20 a.m. Is that why
Fox News showed the 'story' of the Racist Sharon Angle? Even Bill
O'Riley apologized for that one.
Hope vs. Fear. Which side are you on?
I think "Fear of the Unknown" keeps Conservatives from Progressing.
Fear is part of Human's NATURAL makeup for a reason. It's a built_in
protection. Without it... we die young.Irrational fear is of course
a handicap. But total lack_of_fear is also a fatal_flaw. Humans naturaly fear
things that bring extreme_discomfort and things that we know can end_our_lives.
We fear water because without proper training we can drown. We fear fire
becasue if it get's out of control it kills and destroys... We fear
hights_because_we_splat... We fear SOME progress because we have an
inate_natural ability to tell things that will harm us.Not ALL
progress is bad. But not all progress is good. There are things about the past
many of us wish we could have back. There have also been many improvements in
our lives that required overcoming our fear of change, that today we would not
want to give up. It's a tradeoff. But we are NOT children. We
have experience and have learned lessons from our own experience and from
mistakes made by those who went before us. We don't need to fear ALL change.
But SOME change is obviously harmfull. There is a REASON_we_fear SOME
fundamental changes. We've
For 150 years Americans could look forward to a higher standard of living for
their children. The American economic system rewarded increasing productivity
with increasing wages. This was a remarkable economic performance,
unprecedented. Then in the 1970's that all stopped - real wages stopped rising
for a variety of reasons including American capital's flight to lower wage
countries (offshoring), the collapse of organized labor, increasing
participation of women in the labor force, and yes a flood of new immigrants
(legal and illegal). I oppose the Arizona immigrant measures as inhumane, but
illegal immigration has been part of our real wage collapse. The cure is for
labor to reassert itself. Arizona type measures will only disrupt families and
turn labor against itself.Mr. Florez, perhaps you are too good a
Republican to look at the overal wage issue as a driver of current insecurity.
Let's address this twisted story, Fear of the unknown keeps society from
progressing" By John Florez. He starts out with "Utah pioneers feared not. They
had faith and leaders who gave them hope and a vision of a brighter future. They
manifested the American Dream; many were immigrants who first came to America as
converts from Great Britain and Scandinavia to seek a better life". HE LEFT
OUT that many died in that quest west, and for all those Member's that wanted to
leave, Brigham Young kept them as his slaves and would not let them go. Young
was appointed the territory's first governor and superintendent of American
Indian affairs by President Millard Fillmore. During his time as governor, Young
directed the establishment of settlements throughout Utah, Idaho, Arizona,
Nevada, and parts of southern Colorado and northern Mexico. Under his direction
the pioneers built roads and bridges, forts, irrigation projects, and
established public welfare, organized a militia, and pacified the Native
Americans. Hope vs. fear. It has been the history of our nation that in hard
economic times, people become fearful of the people that lead them, and the
unknown if they left him.
Florez apparently equates progress with anarchy. This is not only completely
wrong, it is downright irresponsible.As noted by Mike Richards, no
one is opposed to LEGAL immigration. What responsible people are opposed to,
however, is the call from Florez for disobeying the law.Florez likes
to claim that anyone opposed to illegal immigration is racist, bigoted, and
against progress. This is the same argument made by those who favor illegal drug
use, identity theft, and prostitution. The fact is that breaking the law is
breaking the law, and all responsible citizens will never support breaking the
Mr. Florez seems to be lumping all immigrants together. I don't know of anyone
who is complaining about LEGAL immigrants. Some of my best friends are
immigrants from Greece. They came here legally. They waited for their turn to
immigrate. They did everything required by the Federal Government. They entered
through the front door.They started working at low paying jobs, but
through hard work, through desire, and through the confidence that legal entry
into this country allows, they eventually created businesses that paid them an
excellent wage and provided jobs for many other LEGAL immigrants.