Comments about ‘Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman Jr. mull Mormon dilemma’

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Published: Saturday, July 31 2010 9:48 p.m. MDT

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ClarkHippo

@JoeBlow 9:02

Nice try, but your argument has no legs whatsoever. The fact is, LDS voters vote for non-LDS candidates all the time, especially during presidential elections.

Fact - John McCain carried Utah in 2008, although Barack Obama had strong showings in many parts of the state. At the same time, Peter Caroon was re-elected mayor of Salt Lake County. Are you going to try and convince us none of the people who voted for McCain, Obama and Caroon were LDS?

And what about LDS people who live outside of Utah? Are you going to convince us they never vote, unless there's an LDS person on the ballot?

L

Worth Repeating !

Civil | 2:46 a.m. Aug. 1, 2010
What they should say:

"What my religion is" is a different question than my position on religion.

"I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Some people call us Mormons.

"I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and Savior of mankind.

"A tenant of our Church, from the beginning, is 'We believe in worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, when, or what they may.'"

"Those are my beliefs."

"As President of the United States, my job is to protect the rights of all men and women to freedom of conscience, and yes, freedom of religion.

"The free exercise of conscience is the most fundamental of American, indeed, human rights, and is guaranteed in our Constitution. As President I will defend and support that Constitution, and those rights."

Howard Beal

It is simply up to the evangelicals in the Republican Party to look past Romney's religion to possibly nominate and then possibly elect the one guy that could turn around the economy. If they can't get over this insane religious bias, then they have no one else to blame but themselves.

JoeBlow

ClarkHippo, you totally missed the point.

Of course LDS must vote for non-lds candidates because, for the most part, that is all there is outside of utah.

My point is that there are religious tests used by many people including LDS.

Most LDS (and many others) would not ever vote for the groups I mentioned (atheist, scientologist, muslim, etc)

Notice I did not include in my list Catholic, evangelical, Baptist and other more mainstream.

But, the country in general is more likely to include LDS in the first list than the second.

A Little Child

A person who has good morals, who has good family values, and who believes in God, is of much greater value, than one who is an atheist, believes in marxist values, and proudly declares us to the world as being an 'unchristian' nation!!

Haven't we had enough of that?

Have you ever thought that we may not even be given the chance to vote on a president again? Our present president may just use his "executive authority" and declare a presidential vote ... 'unconstitutional' and outdated...call for 'martial law' and change his title to: Dictator!! He already has his own government in place.

Is having someone be a "Mormon" worse than that?

What do Mormons believe in anyway?

God
Government
A divinely inspired Constitution
Freedom for the individual
Family (A Declaration to the World)
Morality
Marriage
Industry
Thrift
Honesty
13 Articles of Faith

A good Mormon would govern with common consent
instead of "ramming things down the throat"
as this administration has done.

Romney is one Mormon who has stepped forward, willing to put into effect the wisdom of economics that he learned from a father, who taught him about production and profit...one who created jobs!!

JoeBlow

Little Child DUCK. The black helicopters are circling.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

GWB,
I think you make good points in bringing up Romney's donations to Planned Parenthood.

I also question how much of Romney's being trounced in the south was due to the Mormon issue and how much was due to the opposition of National Right to Life.

The fact that Ernest Istook won the Republican nomination for governor in Oklahoma says that Mormons can win in the south, they just have to be truly pro-life Mormons who support the cause of social conservativism.

Other good examples of Mormons with political futures are Raul Labrador and maybe Jeff Flake, although I like him as a supporter of immigration reform which causes some to denounce him as a facilitator of crimes.

Rob Bishop might in theory has some potential, but he is not a flashy candidate. Orrin Hatch would have some, but his support of embryonic stem-cell research has alienated the Right to Life types, even if he was a leading figure in the attempts to prevent the inclusion of abortion funding in health care reform. One other Mormon who has potential is Wally Herger.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

I think a Mormon would have less chance in Democrat circles. It was the "New Republic" that way back in 2007 was publishing articles claiming a Mormon president would be a threat because he would answer to the Mormon leaders more than the people.

Also the protests against the Mormon Church and boycotts of all Mormons and Utahns done by the generally Democrat leaning Prop-8 partisans would make Democrat primaries extremely hard to win for any Mormon, at least in California, New York, New England, New Jersey and Iowa.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Actually what the 1992 and 2002 comparison shows is that Romney does not need to reinvent himself, he needs to reinvent the presidency.

The big question is the presidency a position of running the government, or developing the policy of the government.

Since FDR and in some ways since Theodore Roosevelt, it has had a large policy componant. However there is still an administrative componant.

What Romney needs to do is convince conservatives that he can be counted on to hold to pro-life, pro-marriage policies enough that his executive skills outweight his lack of policy strength.

I am not sure it is possible to convince people of that. Romney care in Massachusetts is as much a problem with tea partiers as being a Mormon and having donated to Planned Parenthood are with Evangelicals.

Today is a big day for Romney. If Pete Hoestra who he has supported for over a year wins the Republican nomination for Michigan governor it will be a vindication for Romneyism and a defeat for sleezeism. OK, my dislike for our current AG who is the moral equivalent of Sanford or Vitter is very strong.

manateeshirt

@ WHATNOW?

Ha! I couldn't help but laugh when I read your rant.

Say hello to continuous re-distribution of wealth to the wealthy?

Where do you think wealth comes from dear? Do you think that Republicans take money out of the poor and middle class and put it in the pockets of the rich? HA! There is no wealth from those socio-economic classes to re-distribute. Did you know that over 60% of taxes are paid by 2% of the population? Who are the 2%? The wealthy. Where does that money go? Probably to your empty pockets through social services. While the government takes 0% to 15% of your income, they are taking 33% to 50% of the wealthy's AND re-distributing it to.... to... who? Not their country club or tennis buddy... the poor and middle class.

Im assuming you are complaing about tax-breaks that Bush gave to the rich? The consequence? Intelligent re-investing into the economy not into broke peoples pockets.

Quit hating on the successful.

JoeBlow

Dont you get it Manatee?

The middle class is shrinking. The rich are getting richer and the poor poorer. These trends have accelerated recently (20 years)

Do you think that is good for the US or any country for that matter?

There has been a migration of wealth towards the rich. Does that word suit you better than redistribution?

Whatever the cause it is not healthy for our country. Dont believe me? Look at Mexico and countless other countries.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

TD7,
Huntsman served an LDS mission in Taiwan. This is closely related to his current position as US ambassador to China.

I can not definitively state anything about his religious activity since then. However serving as an LDS missionary is more religious activity and work than Kennedy ever showed.

Beyond this, it is open to question whether Huntsman's commetns are more for US or Chinese consumption. China dislikes foriegn religious figures, and when he was nominated there were claims he would work to get the Church recognized in China. He has to constantly work to prevent any idea he is a covert Mormon operative so he can be an effective ambassador.

The fact that the Church openly forbids expatriot members in China from sharing the gospel with citizens shows that the admonition to preach the gospel has to be tempered with the need to be subjected to law.

onewhotries

Dear LDS Liberal;
sorry I'm late with this response but, As I understand the founding of these United States, it was through religious freedom to worship Almighty God and have freedom of choice,and freedom from persecution. Therefore, came people called Quakers, Lutherans, Baptist, even Catholics, to name a few. All were considered Christians. As the country opened its doors to all peoples seeking that same freedom, other ethnic groups came with different religious backgrounds.and ALL were welcomed- to come and build this great country, in a land choice above all other lands.Why even those that were brought here as slaves were eventually given their freedom so, Yes, belief in an Almighty God, a Divine Creator is what this country stands for.[Personally, I like a kind loving God, not one I have to be afraid of,always full of wrath.]

Let us realize that anyone born in this country can run for and be elected to any office. Let us, again, separate emotion from fact, color from intelligence, religion from qualification, even desire to serve from political experience, and consider, prayerfully or with profound thought, for whom we should cast our vote in EVERY election!

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

This article missed a major issue, how Catholics feel about Mormons. It hinted at it with Huntsman's mention of his children attending Catholic schools, but it did not explore the issue more.

The "Religious Right" is at least as much Catholic as Protestant. The pro-life movement is a largely Catholic phenomenon, and the re-election of George W. Bush in 2004 was totally due to his success with Catholic voters.

Of late, with Francis Cardinal George coming to speak at BYU and the cooperation by LDS and Catholic people on Prop 8, as well as the Catholic dominated NOM having a Mormon on its board, we have seen growing Catholic/Mormon cooperation.

However in trying to see what I could learn about Huntsman's religion, I learned that the claims that his "soft" Mormonism are in contrast to his father are not fully backed by the evidence. Jon Huntsman, Sr. has better Catholic credentials than his son. In the Feb. 27, 1993 Church News we learn that Huntsman, Sr. was a member of the fund-raising commitee for the renovation of the Cathedral of the Madeline in Salt Lake City.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Jon Huntsman, Sr.'s Catholic connections are even deeper. In the May 22, 1993 Church News we learn he was invited to visit the Vatican and while there met with the Pope.

This was due both to his work with the Cathedral of the Madeline and a large donation he had made to St. Vincent De Paul.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

JoeBlow,
Elder Oaks specifically denounced using religion as a criteria for selecting a candidate in his speech at BYU-Idaho last November.

Utah was the second state to elect a Jew as governor, only beat out by Idaho. Utah may also be the only state to date to have had a Buddhist as a member of its Supreme Court.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Fender Bender,
Is anyone self-described "overly religious"? It is a term that by its very nature is unliquely to be used as a self-description. I have known few if any people who admitted to being too committed to religion.

I am many others feel we need to live our religion better, live up to it better and so on. However I have never met someone who says "I go to church to much, I just wish I could stay away more" and few are those who say "I wish I spent less time reading the Bible and Book of Mormon and more in reading the newspaper".

The accusations against Romney are even more ludicrous. He has served as a bishop and a stake president.

manateeshirt

What is the solution Joe Blow?

Take from those who contribute most to the economy and give it to those who contribute minimal amounts?

Where do you think middle class jobs come from? Do they spring forth from the beard of Zues? They are created... by...stay with me now... companies and coporations... that... are created by... the... WEALTHY! Its called capitalism YO! Punishing the wealthy, the job creators, the economy stimulators only scratches their status and bank account while laying a heavy beat-down on the middle class that they employ.

It is interesting how over the past 20 years the government has been pulling our country and economy away from pure-capitalism... and how you mentioned that the middle class has been systematically shrinking over the past 20 years... correlation? Uh...yeah.

The "dying middle-class" has dug their own grave with their credit cards.

Im not even rich. Im a broke college student. Im a kid... and I can see it.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

To Pro Education,
If Utah does not "fund education adequately" than why are its results so much better than other states?

The most abysmally performing district is Detroit. It is so bad some have called for criminal charges for those responsible for the non-education going on.

In addition there are real criminal charges for embezelment and mis-approproation of funds, and that is only where actual laws were broken. The idiots who wasted money for inflated prices to purchase land in deals where it can not be proven that they were actually trying to get any person gain are getting off scott free.

One thing is Utah does not have the duplicated, bloated school district bureaucracies of some states. Tax dollars for education is a myth, since paying a public relations consultant to make your district look good does not cause students to learn more. Also, spending money on text books that then get thrown out so when you start a course you have none and have to buy another set is a total waste of resources.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

I knew a guy who moved to Las Vegas to teach there because of the higher pay. He said that if he had known how un-caring and oppresive to actual progress the administration of the Clark County School district was, he would not have moved.

Utah has about 30 school districts, Michigan about 500. Yet Michigan only has 5 times the population.

The main componant in educational spending is teacher pay. The assumption of the educational cost per capita studies is that "spending per student" either equals skilled teachers or better student-teacher ratios.

However, this is not exactly true. Beyond the fact it also equals different amounts of security personnel and other things, it may just reflect a higher cost of living.

A teacher who makes 20% as much in most parts of California realistically is making less money than a teacher in Utah. Thus the monetary comparison is totally skewed.

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