Comments about ‘Long immigration waits show why some come illegally’

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Published: Sunday, July 18 2010 12:34 a.m. MDT

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sunnymorsap

All those people that support the inhumane deportation of illegals versus a compassionate fining and requirements to be done in order to stay here...I hope you all realize why they have to come here illegally. Come on you're going to tell me that you're going to pay the equivalent of $15,000 USD for you're passport and then on top of that, you're going to wait 20 yrs? What if you had a sick child, and could only find work altering or making clothing when you had orders for it...there's no way anyone would ever save enough money to pay for their papers and still be able to survive. All you people wanting them all gone only want them to die because that's what you're sending them back too. Applying for a visa can add up to what DN states in this article, but that's in USD...in Mexico 200 pesos is about 18 dollars...do the math people...think about what you're asking these people to do. Have a heart.

ComSen1

Does anyone think maybe it takes so long for people to get their paperwork processed because there are far more applications annually than can possibly be approved if we are to have sustainable growth?

If we let in 10,000,000 every year, how long will it be before our country is completely overpopulated, our resources depleted, and we have annual inflation rates of 15-20%? What do you think would happen to the crime and poverty rates then? New York would look like Mumbai. LA would continue the transition to becoming Mexico City.

CHOICES HAVE TO BE MADE for the long-term good of our country. Those that don't get in this year will have to wait until the next, or the next.

Most who are in favor of general amnesty have probably never made a business decision beyond what clothes to wear. We can't help ANYONE if our country is destroyed, which it would be, by the economic impact of mass amnesty and open borders.

cjb

re ComSem 1

If someone refuses to sell you something and then you force the sale by use of arms, this is a sale under duress and its validity is questionable at best.

Due to the way the land was gotten, we don't have clear title. It isn't ours in the same sense that it would have been had it been gotten on the up and up.

No amount of rationalization will white wash this fact away.

Americans who went into Texas, had to get permission first, and condition of this permission was that they pledge to obey Mexican law. They went back on their pledge and revolted. This didn't make that land theirs. Reason being, when you take something that doesn't belong to you, the title doesn't transfer.

If you read historical accounts, Americans at the time were under no illusion that this wasn't a land grab. SeeHenry David Thoreau's comments about the issue at the time. No one argued with him that he was wrong, but right /wrong was a non issue they didn't care.

Not only with Mexico, the same thing happened with the Indians.

Geneina

Vanessa62 | 1:12 p.m. July 18, 2010 writes:
I notice you didn't say a word about the crimes being committed by their employers. 99% of whom know they're hiring illegal workers. Got something to say about persecuting and prosecuting them?"

Well, I wouldn't persecute them but I would certainly prosecute them and require them to uphold all state and federal laws including SB251 which mandates the use of a status verification system.

If everyone would follow President Monson's advice then the problem would largely solve itself.

President Monson: “Let us not overlook obedience to the laws of the land. They do not restrict our conduct so much as they guarantee our freedom, provide us protection, and safeguard all that is dear to us.

In our time, when otherwise honorable men bend the law, twist the law, and wink at violations of the law, when crime goes unpunished, legally imposed sentences go unserved, and irresponsible and illegal conduct soars beyond previously recorded heights, there is a very real need to return to the basic justice that the laws provide when honest men sustain them.” Ensign 1988


ComSen1

Despite popular myth, our country has not been able to fully support its immigrants since the mid-1800s, except during times of war.

When the cities got too crowded, and jobs were too scarce, the frontier opened up for pioneering. We've run out of land to pioneer unless millions of people are willing to move to Alaska. A country has to produce or it will stagnate.

Most arable land is already being used. What is left to produce and where? We can't continue to be a nation of consumers, and we aren't producing enough to sustain our current population which is why we have such huge trade deficits. If our nation is borrowing Billion$$$ every month to sustain our current population, how can it afford to add more members for whom it will have to borrow money to pay for all the social services, etc?

I said it hours ago. I'm still waiting for some common sense answers.

Geneina

Some posts seem to say that it is ok for people to violate U.S. immigration laws in order to better their lives.

I would guess that many people living under a ruthless, communist government in East Germany felt the same way. However, President Monson consistently advised them to follow the laws of the land.

Writing in the June 2007 Liahona, President Monson says: “For many years as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, I had responsibility for East Germany, also known as the German Democratic Republic. In this assignment, my knowledge of the Articles of Faith was most helpful. On each of my visits throughout the 20 years I supervised this area, I always reminded our members in that area of the twelfth article of faith: “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”

According to President Monson East German leaders told him: “Elder Monson, we’ve watched you for 20 years, and we’ve learned we can trust you and your Church because you and your Church teach your members to obey the laws of the land.”

Say What?

re Geneina | 4:06 p.m. July 18, 2010

If the immigrants obey the law, pertaining to being here to the same extent that we obeyed the treaties with the Indians, or to the same extent that we obey our own, civil laws (being here illegally is a civil not a criminal law)

Will that satisfy you?

If not, then should they be the only ones to obey while we continue to disobey?

Should we restore Indian treaty lands including Hawaii at the same time they are leaving? Or is strict adherence to law only for others and not for us, unless it is conveneint?

------

Unless or until we set things right, we really shouldn't be throwing rocks at others who in thier time of dire need break minor laws. If we do, we are liable to break our own glass house.

Get it?

ComSen1

@cbj 3:47

Completely agree with you. I'm not arguing that. We bought the Louisiana Purchase from France, and Alaska from Russia. Back then it was all "virgin territory" that had been claimed by a colonial powers. In fact, England had aspirations to purchase the Oregon territory but we got there first. The point is, that was colonial times, and it was the rule of the day. Anyone who is complaining about the land being "stolen" from Mexico is being hypocrital because it was stolen from the native peoples first. But the native peoples were in constant battles with themselves for territory. So how far back do you take it? In all honesty, you don't. Borders change constantly throughout history. They are still changing in eastern Europe. It's a fact of life. The Kurds are still fighting for a "country" as are the Basques, the Palestinians, the Irish Catholics, and the Zapotecs in southern Mexico. I'm not justifying it, it's a fact of life. Everybody wants a "homeland" it seems, except the people who are clamoring to make the US their homeland realize there is more to it than a line on paper.

cjb

re ComSen1

You: | Anyone who is complaining about the land being "stolen" from Mexico is being hypocrital because it was stolen from the native peoples first.

Me: Mexican peoples are native peoples.

You: But the native peoples were in constant battles with themselves for territory.

Me: They had battles true, they also recognized territories, if they fought, that was an intermal matter among themselves. It doesn't impact our ownership of land positively or negatively.

You: So how far back do you take it?

Me: We still have Indian treaties that were not recinded which if kept would require we give back substantial amounts of land. Also in our insistance that others strictly obey law of immigration, how can we forget that we took the land away from these very people in a wrongful way?

What I am saying is we need to be mindful of our history and act accordingly. We can and should be more accomidating.

Do whites need to move off Indian treaty land? I wouldn't enforce such a thing, but given our history, we can be more accomidating to others. Morally speaking in answer to your questtion that's how far back we go.

wrz

"If we let in 10,000,000 every year, how long will it be before our country is completely overpopulated, our resources depleted..."

Watch "Immigration Gumballs" on YouTube and see.

wrz

@cjb 3:47 p.m.:

"Due to the way the land was gotten, we don't have clear title."

Clear title is written with the barrel of a gun.

"Not only with Mexico, the same thing happened with the Indians."

You can validate your point by quickly moving off so-called Indian lands.

Christy

@wrz,

It's really not rocket science to realize that a 20 year wait to come here is ridiculous.

cjb

re wrz | 5:01 p.m. July 18, 2010

If law doesn't matter, then don't appeal to it.

wrz

Christy: "It's really not rocket science to realize that a 20 year wait to come here is ridiculous."

You didn't view "Immigration Gumballs" on YouTube did you?

We should cut off all immigration. And enforce immigration laws.

One important reason we take immigrants in is to provide labor for jobs that go begging. We don't need labor right now. We are full up, and more. We have 10 percent unemployment. That's 15 million people out of work. Right now, there are 8 million illegals taking Americans' jobs. Send them home, let Americans take these jobs, and our economy will soar.

RealLDS

Illigal immigrant? The term itself is racially moivated. It's meant to dehumanize.

Per the 14th amendmant, An (undocumented immigrant) has violated immigration requirements, but is still considered a legal person, as is anyone under the jurisdiction of the law. The equal protection clause was written to prevent state governments from defining any human being as anything less than a legal person.

There is no such thing as an Illigal person and or immigrant.

The undocumented entry into this country is also violation of a civil law and not a criminal law. To compare this to robbing a bank or any other criminal act is ridiculous!

attentive

@ Hunt: Which is exactly why I won't be watching the first of a series on our immigration problems to be aired tonight on KSL - they are biased. It's as if all those who were commenting on the negative effects of illegal immigration have disappeared, which I KNOW is far from the truth, but comments posted by those who are against illegal immigration have become less and less here. I find that I am checking out the online Salt Lake Tribune more and more.

Bowser

This subject is a very touchy. Both my wife and daughter have gone through the immigration process and it was very costly. I have 2 other daughters that were not allowed to enter the US because I did not stay long enough in thier country of orgin . I spent thousands of dollors only to to have thier status denied . To swim or sneak across illegally is wrong to burdon the people of that country with thier children and cost to educate them and provide food annd medical. These people and thier children should be deported , Just because Anerivca is close does not give you the same right as american citizens. Go Home and come back when you go through the process and relieve the american poeple of your burden on the tax systgem.

ds7

for every $1 an illegal contributes in taxes, they remove $3 in benefits.

we don't need any more illiterate, spanish speaking dishwashers, lawncare experts, cooks, mcdonald's counter workers, etc.

the desnews should stop with the sob stories and appeals to sympathy and realize americans are sick of this mess. send them and their anchor babies back to mexico or whatever latin american country they escaped from so the family can be together. let them grow where they're planted.

ds7

why do stories about illegals deserve anonymity, but whistleblowers must be exposed and prosecuted?

the hypocrisy of the legacy media is obvious to even the casual observer.

trueamerican

Samhill, do you realize how many people are trying to get into America? A long wait is expected. A LONG LONG wait. EVERYONE and their relatives desire to come to America. It's the best country in the world...all these immigrants, and illegal immigrants seem to attest to that. I would venture to guess that most immigrants here then sponsor others from their family to come into the U.S. So, it's not just every immigrant. It's them...and their families.

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