Comments about ‘LDS Church repeats call for 'civil discourse' on immigration’

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Published: Sunday, July 18 2010 12:31 a.m. MDT

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Ernest T. Bass

Why should we be civil when were true and there not.

ds7

more of these uneducated masses aren't helping our situation. for every $1 these people contribute in taxes, they remove $3 in benefits.

i can "love" these illegals just as much if they're in mexico as i can if they're in west valley.

no need to break-up families, send the whole lot back to mexico or whatever other south american country they broke out of.

JayTee

It looks like most of the roundtable invitees are the cheap-liberal-votes lobby, the cheap-labor lobby, and the we-want-to-continue-the-welfare lobby. When you talk about the feelings and needs of all concerned, you should know that for this country to maintain any degree of security, economic well-being, and sovereignty, we HAVE to have borders and those borders have to be real and have meaning. Otherwise, you've just given away the entire country to any takers who happen to want it. I'm all for being civil, but I'm also about being realistic and vigilant when it comes to maintaining some degree of viability, solvency, and tranquility in this nation--as long as we can HAVE a nation.

Jonathan Eddy

As expected, the ignorant will fall for anything. We have had immigration issues for over 200 years, but it was never of any real concern until the last couple of years. Why? Because it is in the propaganda press on a daily basis.

Now that you are all whipped into a frenzy, here is what will happen next.
1. You will demand federal reform
2. The President will oblige and offer a solution under the Security and Prosperity Partnership Act of 2009
3. Homeland Security will step in and take charge
4. North American Union ID cards will be issued as a cure
5. You will accept it hook line and STINKER
6. The North American Union will take command over national sovereignty and America will become even weaker and more watered down
7. North Americans will travel freely among all borders but America as the greatest nation will end
8. You will wonder what in heaven's name happened, just like you did when we lost our manufacturing base to Mexico via NAFTA/GATT and then to China

You Utahans sure make me feel warm and fuzzy and safe.

RAB

For the LDS Church, obeying the law is extremely important. Anyone breaking the law needs to rethink their behavior and do what they know they should be doing.

More than anything else however, the gospel has always emphasized mercy and the golden rule. One has to ask: Do I want for those immigrants what I would want for myself? Would I want the blessings of living in our country denied to me? Would I want to be forced back to a country where I lived in fear, despair, and/or hopelessness?

Obviously, these immigrants are so desperate and unhappy with their lives in their own countries that they are willing to leave their beloved friends and families, travel a great distance (sometimes at great risk and cost), live in constant fear of deportation or other punishments, and take the least desirable, lowest paying jobs available - all for the mere hope of tasting of the blessings that many of us take for granted.

Breaking the law is wrong and people should repent of it. But there is a word for people who want something for others that they would not want for themselves. “hypocrite”.

ratkellar

There are 2 issues that the Church itself does not seem to understand (at least in its statement).
1) There is a political issue. Rational discourse by elected, federal officials is needed. I prefer a solution similar to Reagan's, but DC seems more worried about who should enforce the federal law.
2) There is an issue of illegal acts by persons entering this country without permission. That is no longer to be handled by legoislative persons, it is law enforcement. The law should be enforced -- by federal officers and if necessary by state officers.
The political issue is complex; the enforcement issue should not be.
I'm not certain why the LDS Church should be involved or have an opinion. Our basic tenets are to obey the law and also to be benevolent.

JayTee

The bank has more money than I do. I guess to provide for my family, and offer them a better life like the bankers have, I should be allowed to rob the bank and elevate my family's status. If the bankers are at all Christian, they should be willing to turn a blind eye to my activities, and treat me in a "civil" and "charitable" manner and not be pressing charges. After all, as greedy capitalists, it's only right that they give up a little to benefit people like me. After all, haven't they ever read Uncle Tom's Cabin? I mean, without the money, some of my family might have to leave the area to work or rob elsewhere. It's time we started sharing and letting people take what we've built here. That way we can all feel good about ourselves. I mean, Jesus himself must have been a robber, right? Or not. Anyway, if I want your stuff, you should be a humanitarian and make sure I get it . . . NOW!

StandAlone

"When the law is changed, to allow easier and more immigration, I will remind all of you (illegal you say) immigrant haters that you staked your opinions and actions on the need to follow the law, so follow the new one."

What other laws should we change to accommodate people? If we continue to change laws to suit the agenda of a few, why have laws at all? That's the difference between Gods' laws and man made secular laws. One changes like a political fashion trend , the other is never changing and constant.

I can't imagine what society would look like if we accommodated everyone for whatever reason. There are over 300 million people in the U.S, and nearly 7 billion people worldwide. If we remove our borders, there will be no United States of America.

I, for one, do not hate immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself, a legal one under the current law. I do have a problem with dishonesty though.


Dr. James Rawson

To quote Scott Taylor: When Herbert first announced the event earlier this month, the immigration focus was Arizona's controversial, divisive legislation and Utah's role in state reform. Scott has failed to read the AZ law obviously. The legislation is not divisive, it mirrors the federal mandate to control illegal immigration. It does nothing but protect AZ from the scourge of illegal aliens and stop the drug and crime traffic flowing across their southern border unabated because of the stupidity of the Obama and Bush administrations. It's obvious the deseret news has already passed judgment and doesn't care one iota about the legal citizens of this state who fork over the taxes so that the illegals can live a better life off of the entitlement programs of the federal and state government. Absolutely and totally shameful and against the principles of this country aimed at protecting the rights of lawful residents, period!

blablabla

These comments are embarrassing...it's funny how Utah LDS members are so willing to follow the council of their bishops or stake presidents when they say things like, "you can't drink coke!", but when the Church gives an OFFICIAL, PUBLIC statement those same members try to find their way around a REASONABLE call from the CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST. Is it really that hard to be civil? I've never seen so much hypocrisy from people that say they want to be like Jesus and then come here and write horrible things about children of God.

Those of you who say that they should come here legally have NO IDEA about immigration laws and how hard (almost impossible) it is to come here LEGALY. A work visa is expensive and very hard to get approved (you need a sponsor, and companies employing immigrants DON'T want sponsor them).

The issue is a lot more complicated than "following article of faith 12" Those who say that honestly have NO IDEA about immigration...and with the attitudes I see here, it seems like you don't want to learn, just talk and talk ignorantly.

RichE

To all who have commented on the 12th Article of Faith as justification to treat illegal immigrants with disdain, immediate deportation, splitting up families by sending illegal parents of American born citizen children out of the USA, etc...

May I suggest that you also read and ponder the next (13th) Article of Faith which reads:

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men...

Doing good to all men - shouldn't that be our overriding concern for all of us?

Isn't that what the LDS Church leadership is asking of its members?


sagacity

To those of you who are going against the Church's measured stance on immigration, to those of you who love cherry-picking: Hypocrisy is an ugly thing. And you're bound to find yourselves all tangled up in it sooner than later.

Archie

I ran across this scripture yesterday and thought of the immigration issue...

D&C 58:21 Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land.

I've read posts on this thread equating illegal immigration to a speeding ticket. Honestly, I've heard local leaders make the exact same comparison - seems like an over simplification of the issue.

Does anyone know which statute the immigration issue falls under; criminal or civil? I believe traffic tickets fall under civil law. Are we really talking about the same thing?

Does remaining in the country after a work or student visa expires fall under the same statute as entering the country illegally?

Compliance with the laws of the land is the issue. However, I think we need to understand what those laws and associated penalties are before we can talk intelligently about the issue...don't we?

Does anyone have insight to the laws at the heart of the issue?

idablu

Re: Bill in Nebraska | 9:24 p.m. July 17

You express my own sentiments very well.

some other thoughts:
1. Deporting all illegals will be very expensive and very messy. Deport every one who commits a fairly serious crime. Those who are working, provide probationary citizenship and tax them. If they can keep their nose clean after a period, grant them permanent status. Make employers provide health benefits.

2. Secure the borders!

3. Those who favor open borders and cry racism to anyone opposed to their opinion are cowards.

4. I think the counsel of the Brethren is wise. Let's carefully consider the ramifications on all the people and families involved in this debate.

5. If some comes to this country illegally, and has a baby while still illegal, that baby should not be allowed to have legal citizenship. I think fixing that loophole will curb much of the illegal immiration.

idablu

The immigration problem should be addressed by focusing on 2 issues: Illegal immigration's impact on the economy and its impact on national security. I think few would argue that our porous borders are a great avenue for potential terrorists to enter the country. To me, economic impact is not so clear. I've seen lots of conflicting data. Can anyone direct me to reliable, unbiased, independent, factual data on the economic impact of illegal immigration?

Archie

idablu | 10:50 p.m. July 18, 2010
Archie | 10:13 p.m. July 18, 2010

1. What are the actual laws and penalties associated with these issues?

2. What is the economic impact of illegal immigration

Two good questions; both worthy of investigative reporting. How about it, DN??



Brotherhood

I served an LDS mission in Mexico; the Mexican people treated me with so much kindness but sometimes asked me to tell them why the people of our country hated them so much.
I believe in being honest. I also believe that we need to keep in mind that our country was founded on principles of freedom for all and that in scriptures it is stated that God will bring those who should be brought to this land (read in 2 Nephi 1). I think as we are selfish and forget about others' needs we will not be happy. Charity is the law that never faileth. Which of us can really cast a stone? If we want to be happier with our situation, I think we should realize that maybe our Heavenly Father would want us to share more and judge others of His children less.

JBrady

re:idablu

The DN will not approve posts with links in them, sorry.

Not approving comments about the churches indiscretions towards hiring people here illegally in the past, does not help keep a civil discourse either.

We had quite the talk about honesty and transparency outside our ward house today. It creates more of a problem than it solves.

MormonDem

Archie: overstating a visa is a civil, not criminal, offense. Also, a couple of years ago when Elder Marlin K. Jensen was sent by the First Presidency to call for compassion for immigrants, Elder Jensen himself compared illegal entry or visa violations to civil offenses such as traffic violations.

idablu: citizenship for anyone born on American soil is not a "loophole," for goodness sakes! It is written into the Constitution!

JBrady

@ Brotherhood
I have no problem helping those that I choose. I do not like people that demand it. In 1996 we created NAFTA to help the people of Mexico. Now they are the 14th best economy in the world. Thanks to our subsidies and tax breaks going to American companies that move there Mexico has less unemployment than the US.

China, India, Mexico and the Philippines are the only countries that have a long wait on green cards. Their demand exceeds our supply. It's not a justification for breaking man and God's laws.

Let's all help those in the countries we served our missions in. And let's be fair to everyone by enforcing our laws.

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