Comments about ‘LDS Church repeats call for 'civil discourse' on immigration’

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Published: Sunday, July 18 2010 12:31 a.m. MDT

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Sarah Nichole

As somebody who has legally immigrated to another country in the past, I'm all for making that process easier on everybody involved. If it were easier for people to move here legally when they wished, most of them would not come illegally.

Having said that, if you are breaking the law, then you need to make restitution of some kind for doing so. You need to pay a fine, do x number of hours of community service, serve a jail sentence, whatever, just like anybody else who breaks the law. After that restitution is made, and after those in question have begun steps to make their stay legal, and have begun to learn the language, then I don't think there's anything wrong with letting them stay here, if they haven't committed any other crimes they haven't made right.

DocSarvis

Easy solution. Have people put their money where their mouths are. Those in favor of allowing illegal immigrants into the country have to pay to subsidize them. Those against it don't.

disgusted

What everyone misses here is that our government created a lot of the problems we face with illegals. Biggest problem is delivering their babies at tax payers expense and then making the babies US citizens even though the parents are illegal. How stupid is this? Every state in the Union has given them driver licenses so they can move around freely from state to state changing their identities as they please. They forge documents such as Social Security cards, birth certificates, and anything else they gave steal. I spent some time in New Mexico many years ago. On Thanksgiving one particular year the Newspaper headlines indicated that 65 burglaries occurred over the Holiday. If it isn't tied down it will be stolen and sold at the many flea markets that was around the city. You say racist? How many sovereign countries oversea's including Canada allow people to just come as go as they please without legal documents? Remember the Haitian boat people? Why didn't we let them all into this country? Wake up people. We're not the solution to everyones problems here in this country.

Samuel the lamanite

Why don't you all just go back to Europe.
Just kidding I feel this country belongs to those who want freedom.

Your ancestors came here illegally (if your a Mormon Brigham Young was an illegal Alien. John Taylor lived in hiding from the law) but all is forgiven. Swedes, Danes and Norwegians used to be unwanted populations as were the Irish, Greeks and the Italians. I could list the slurs and stereotypes but I am obeying the brethren about civility.

if this is the site for the gathering of Israel we need to let them gather.

facts_r_stubborn

We should support efforts to enforce all laws and work to change them if we don't agree. Today, no good citizen and patriot will support breaking some laws to supposedly enforce others. Vigilanteism by some hinders effective enforcement.

Immigration is a complicated issue, affecting millions of people, both legal residents and those here illegally. Those who suggest that these issues are as simple as enforcing the law, apparently have not noticed that we still have crime of all kinds, not just illegal immigration. They also may not have noticed that border control has been beefed up dramatically in the last few years. Enforcement isn't free.

Perhaps, we should have more patience for federal and state law enforcement personnel and even our elected officials while they try to deal with the problem of illegal immigration. We should recognize they are targeting violent and other criminals who also happen to be here illegally first. That just makes sense.

We should be compassionate towards those who are otherwise law abiding persons, who are undocumented, while also enforcing the law. We should have laws that recognize the difference.

I can't hear you when you're yelling, let's talk.

UtahBlueDevil

Disgusted... its in the constitution. Sorry. It has been this way a really long time. So what is the real issue here? Is it that they are brown babies this go around rather little Irish babies, or italian, or polish, german, chinese, what ever.

To your question how many countries oversees allow people to come and go without documents.... ok.... France, Germany, Spain, Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Poland.... the list keeps going. In the EU, no documents are required. You can drive from France to Germany with no more change then you would see if you when traveling from Utah to Nevada.

And no, we are not the only country that has net immigration. Shocking as it may sound, you go to places like Germany, and you will see people of all ethnic origins. Perhaps you need to extend your travels a bit wider than just New Mexico.

DocSarvis - I agree. Don't get that cheap lawn service, or construction done. Pay more for your hotels so they can hire Mary instead of Maria to clean your rooms. And lets stop shopping at Walmart and buying Tyson products because they use cheap labor. Don't want to do that... ? Hmm.

DocSarvis

UtahBlueDevil.....I totally agree. No more cheat lawn service, etc. I've never been in favor of supporting slave labor. How about you?

LDS Mom

In all of the talk about "The List", the thing that no one is saying is this was government information. Our state has known all along who should and who shouldn't be here. There would not be a debate at all if our great leaders would do their jobs.

disgusted

UtahBlueDevil:
'Is it that they are brown babies this go around rather little Irish babies, or italian, or polish, german, chinese, what ever.'

No a lot of those Irish,Italian,Polish,German and not so many Chinese' babies were born to 'legal'immigrants that went through Ellis Island in the 1800's. The Chinese were used as slave labor for the railroads (most of them were illegal). People don't want to break up illegal families because we stupid Americans made automatic citizens of their babies paid for by taxpayers of the US. That's what I was referring to. (illegal parents. . . legal babies) see the problem?

dansimp

How can any member of the church really think the 12th article of faith means that all laws are good, and we need to support all of them?

It was illegal to harbor Jews in Europe during WWII. It was legal to own slaves. It was illegal for a black person to drink out of the same fountain as a white. In some countries it is legal to rape women, or to stone adulterers. You cannot possibly believe that the Church supports these activities under the guise of the 12th article of faith.

Not_Scared

"What everyone misses here is that our government created a lot of the problems we face with illegals. Biggest problem is delivering their babies at tax payers expense and then making the babies US citizens even though the parents are illegal. How stupid is this?"

You want an nation, were like in the time of Christ's birth, a pregnant woman is cast out on to the streets to give birth?

If you have no humanity compassion is stupid. Why did the US government waste dollars buying chocolate bars to give to starving children in Germany after the war?

Christine

The LDS chursh is right. Do what's best for those whose lives will be affected by the new laws the most.

Ajax

Let's face it. Too many of we Utahns are handicapped by a black-and-white mindset. And making matters worse is our spare partisan world view locked in the grip of an imagined simpler, less baffling past. Tell me, how is something so complex, with so many twists and turns, as fair and balanced immigration reform ever to be achieved from so narrow a perspective?

Wizard of Oz

What bothers me about the whole immigration issue is the attitude of the Mexican government. They seem to want more of their people to leave Mexico to come to the United States. They do this because those immigrants send US dollars back to Mexico.

If I were the president of Mexico, I would hang my head in shame for such an attitude. It would shame me that my country was so full of corruption and violent drug cartels that my economy could not have a hope of supporting my people. It would shame me to think that the only thing I could offer my people is my efforts to make it as easy as possible to leave my country. When will Mexicans take back their country from the thugs and secret combinations that rule it today?

Christy

@LDS Mom,

Provo and SLC are sanctuary cities. Don't ask if they're here illegally, they don't tell you. Sometimes all you need to get benefits is a utility bill showing where you live. Many of the children are legal US citizens, so they lawfully receive benefits.

Ajax

The strident advocacy of a systematic identification and purging of undesirables that is witnessed in some comments could easily pass for the rantings of supremacist groups. And if members of these groups are not already here and active in stoking the fires of racism, I would assume that they soon will be packing for the politically fertile fields of Deseret.

Emophiliac

What is there to debate? Illegals have no claim to be in the US. And anyone employing them should be fined and/or lose their business license. Let the illegals either self-deport or give them a ride to the border - either works. And, of course, don't break up families. Give US citizens who are either married to or children of illegals a ride to the border as well. To do otherwise would be cruel.

rw

The Church's message is simple and clear. No matter which side you are on, love your neighbor as yourself. No matter the issue, no matter your beliefs, we are required by God and logic (they are not incompatible) to try to understand, to be compassionate, kind, loving. Civil. A call for civility does not take sides. Rather it is a plea to approach an issue in such a way that the best possible good is the result.

An argument that shows no compassion is not as effective as it could be.

Chileno

Just follow the prophet and you will be doing the right thing!

TJ Banks

It seems like it is too late to solve this problem...there are too many illegals of many nationalities that are here...they tell their relatives and friends and they all want to come too. Look at San Fran. the docks are filled with illegals trying to catch fish for their dinner...if their own leaders in their own countries were altruistic and actually helped the populace get water, sanitation and food production programs instead of greedily taking advantage of the people, we might not have this problem. This is not an easy problem to solve, so I believe that the church leaders are cautioning us to be civil and not go too far on either side with rioting and so forth.

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