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Comments about ‘LDS Church repeats call for 'civil discourse' on immigration’

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Published: Sunday, July 18 2010 12:31 a.m. MDT

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John Adams

@ Galileo | 9:40 p.m.

How is it different? The person that breaks into your home comes uninvited. He's out of work. He sees that you have "plenty" so he helps himself to better his situation and that of his family. He's broken the law by entering illegally and what isn't his to take. How is it different?

Truth and Light

Before Orange County was built, "illegal" members there could only go to Los Angeles because if they went to San Diego, they were at risk of being identified at random road blocks. I cannot understand why such activity is tolerated.

We believe in sustaining the law, so let's do what we say.

baddog

If I were to hazard one guess about the "civility" of the immigration issue, I would look at the comments posted on this and other boards.

Sometimes there isn't much civility.

A year or two ago, a meat packing plant in Postville, Iowa was subject of a federal raid looking for undocumented aliens. Dozens were taken into custody. Children were separated from parents for significant lengths of time.

One can suggest that the raid was "uncivil" since federal agents did not take into consideration family needs or situations of those detained.

I have soul-searched this issue at length. I find myself agreeing, and disagreeing, on nearly every point made. I am conflicted.

I firmly believe, though, that for the health of the country, we must come to some resolution, be it amnesty or deportation, or some combination of the two.

bryancrobinson

What so many of those who are posting comments are forgetting is that bad laws should be changed not enforced. Our immigration laws used to prevent those of Japanese descent from becoming citizens. That didn't change until after WWII. Prior immigration laws were used to discourage Catholic Irish immigrants from coming to this country because the powers that be were afaid that Protestant power and influence would be diminished. Women used to not have the right to vote. The very constitution didn't count a Black person as a full citizen. Those bad laws were changed and thank God they were. We need new immigration laws that are realistic and humane and yes, that includes a way for those who are already here and have families and roots in this country to become legal. Those who demand enforcement of current laws are ignorant of those laws and the negative effect they have on society as a whole. There is a better way. There needs to be compromise on the issues by both sides just like thre was to come up with the constitution. That document, which many considere divine, was the product of compromise by reasonable men.

Hanksboy

It's remarkable that so many people on this board "know" what the Mormon church is doing and why it is doing it. It'd be interesting to "know" where everyone is getting his/her information. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but not to his/her own set of facts. I'm as anti-illegal immigration as anyone but I believe that a call for compassion and civility seems to be a church's prerogative, if not duty. Governor Herbert is doing the right thing by bringing disparate sides to the table. Who knows, maybe showing civility (or even some compassion) may lead to a terrific solution to this mess.

Peter Coyotl

disgusted | 3:18 p.m. July 17, 2010

"What this country doesn't need is an abundance of low wage,uneducated,unskilled laborers who cannot speak English and have become social well-fare (welfare?) recipients off the backs of taxpaying citizens filling our prisons commiting (sic) crimes from selling drugs and gang banging."
* * *

What this country needs is less rhetoric like the paragraph above which makes many erroneous assumptions that illegal immigrants are criminals, drug dealers, and gang members. Obviously there is a criminal element in every group. Mormon ponzi schemers do not reflect the entire group of Mormons. Catholic priests who abuse children are not reflective of all Catholics. People who illegally enter this country to commit crimes are not reflective of those who enter illegally to seek work.

Immigration reform could allow needed legal unemployed workers to return home. Currently illegal immigrants are discouraged from returning home for any reason due to the danger and difficulty of crossing the desert to return to work. There could be less of a burden on entitlement programs if unemployed immigrant workers could go home when there was no work.

RichE

To all who have commented on the 12th Article of Faith as justification to treat illegal immigrants with disdain, disgust, immediate deportation, splitting up families by sending illegal parents of American born citizen children out of the USA, etc...

May I suggest that you also read and ponder the next (13th) Article of Faith which reads:

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men...

Doing good to all men - shouldn't that be our overriding concern for all of us?

Isn't that what the LDS Church leadership is asking of its members?

Peter Coyotl

JJ Morales wrote: 4:00 p.m. July 17, 2010

"As a Latino, Hispanic, Mexican-American or whatever we are called, I think we need to secure our border first and then talk about immigration reform. We should never give citizenship to those here illegally unless they go back to their country of origin and come here the right way."
* * *
As a person who is identified by others with all those groups, I like to call myself an American.

Immigration reform that mandates employment verification will do as much, if not more, to secure the border from illegal workers than spending more money on an increased physical presence on the border. If the jobs are not there-the illegal workers will stop coming.

I am against breaking up families. Rather than give citizenship to those who entered illegally and have worked and have not committed a crime, they should pay a fine, serve a probation, and wait a period for a green card equal to those who wait legally. They would be granted legal status without instant citizenship. Then they do not benefit with citizenship over those who wait legally.

Deportation Glitch Lady

On "illegals breaking in". When someone breaks into your home, you don't encourage them to stay and let them do yard work for years and then go to the local police reporting the " breaking in".

On enforcing deportation for unlawful entry, even the US Supreme Court has found alternatives to allow those with or without papers to stay in the US. This is a balancing act. Anyone who has been in a foreign country or knows someone in a foreign country hopes that if crimes are committed, there will be alternatives in punishment.

Clearly no one expects a police officer to show up with handcuffs and dogs in the yard in the illustration above. " It is a civil issue." I think the officer would say. But if now, this very moment, someone breaks in then handcuffs, tasers and all of the fun stuff become relevant. Hence the title of the news calls it a call for "CIVILITY".

marxist

Clearly this is the time for cool heads. It is critical that the people south of the Rio Grande continue to like us. If we're nasty enough they won't - in which case we could end up with a Hugo Chavez type government, which we would then feel obliged to topple, a la the CIA and Allende. The mess would go on and on. No, let's cool it. Be kind and considerate.

AlexGomez2

When Mormons established and expended through Utah, and other Southern States, they were stepping into Mexico. The Pioneers were IN FACT fleeding the United States, the nation that failed to protect their religious rights. My fellow Mormons, I'd ask you this favor, take a minute and read "The Wentworth Letter" that Prophet Joseph Smith Jr. in 1842. You'll understand the context under which the 12th Article of Faith was written. DO NOT quote it to back your misguided and almost malicious position on immigration, I have to say, my father went inactive over Mormons first invading Mexico and then joining the army supporting the invading government. Brothers, you who are of "Pioneer stock" should be grateful Mexico, a foreign land your ancestors invaded, was the promised land for the florishing of the Church. How dare you applying the 12th Article on the illegal issue. The so called Mexican Cession occured in 1848, one year after the Mormons arrived in UT. So please don't come and lecture my illegal brother and sisters, Mormons or non-Mormons using the 12th Article of Faith. Don't be ignorant, while your are online please read about the "Mexican Cession."

Peter Coyotl


John Adams wrote: 5:51 a.m. July 18, 2010
@ Galileo | 9:40 p.m.

"How is it different? The person that breaks into your home comes uninvited. He's out of work. He sees that you have "plenty" so he helps himself to better his situation and that of his family. He's broken the law by entering illegally and what isn't his to take. How is it different?"
* * *

Your analogy forgot to mention that the person who entered illegally knew that someone from your home would invite him/her to perform chores at a cheaper cost than what is currently being paid.

optimist

Wow, reading all of these post, makes me feel like I am at a BYU/Utah football game. The same hate mentality. It's embarrassing. I'm ashamed.

Not_Scared

"What this country needs is less rhetoric like the paragraph above which makes many erroneous assumptions that illegal immigrants are criminals, drug dealers, and gang members." Propagandist use this to frame their argument.

I live in California. Most the Mexicans I know, work harder than most whites, I know. The whites grew-up here, many got parental welfare, some work at jobs daddy got them or their father in law. They have love to tell you what success stories they are.

What's more amazing; is the more parental welfare I saw them receive, the more conservative they became. When you never earned anything on your own you never learned charity toward others.

Mexicans have ever taken a thing from me. They have been warm caring people. I see Mexicans working in condition that I'm surprised people work under.

On one hand; we have people born into the chosen race, their parents had connections and money and they were born here. They never exerted a calorie to get here.

They resent people who risked their lives to get here. You try walking through the Sonora Desert.

micawber

It surprises me how many commenters are willing to counsel the brethren about this innocuous statement that we should act with civility.

And, Galileo, terms like "Zion curtain" are disrespectful and add nothing to the civility of the dialogue.

Idaho Coug

This is such an interesting look into human behavior. So many are waving the flag of the 12th Article of Faith like it suddenly became the most important tenant of our faith. Do you just as passionately report people speeding through your neghborhood, waive over someone rolling through a stop sign, turn in anyone you suspect of playing loose with the tax code, etc etc?

It is also very interesting to see people very willing to criticize the Church if a stance does not mesh with their own personal or political opinions. I am all for LDS members thinking for themselves and not just blindly following. But I get the feeling that some are very hypocritical in that regard. They condemn others for disagreeing with a church stance that they have no problem with. But when the Church is not quite in line with what they want or believe it is a different story.

The bottom line is that for years we have literally had no border. In good economic times we welcomed the cheap labor. Now we want to send them all home. This CAN be resolved short of deportation. BOTH parties need to step up.

shamrock

I applaud the LDS leaders for reminding us of the importance of civility. It doesn't matter what the issue is, we'll solve it better and faster if we treat each other with compassion and courtesy.

There's something called the Paradox of Persuasion. The louder we yell, the harder we pound the table, the more quickly our listeners will back away and write us off as screwballs. Screaming and name-calling never convinced anybody, so let's just give it a rest.

Anonymous Infinity

There is nothing racist about our government enforcing border laws. It goes without argument that a nation without border control is not a nation at all. With this, the notion, er law? that says a child born in this country is automatically a "citizen" is flawed and unamerican. This needs to be rescinded. This is what is fueling all this talk about being compassionate and reasonable about sending lawbreakers who have crossed our borders without authorization back to their own countries. People of other origins do not have a "right" to come to this country, only under certain legal conditions. Why is this so hard to understand? Green cards will not work either, because there is no monitoring of these people. And giving people visas is totally out of control, because these people simply melt into the population and never return to their country of origin if they aren't legitimate tourists visiting our country. Food stamps, welfare, health care and all the rest of it are going through the roof and adding to the burden of government. All of this is outrageous.

evensteven

The Church's plea for civility would get alot further if they would also issue a plea for honesty. I remember getting lectured in GPM a few years ago about how fudging on one's taxes was inappropriate behavior for a priesthood holder. It would be nice if the Church would come out and openly state that being in the US illegally is inappropriate for a priesthood holder.

The truth is, the Brethren are deeply divided themselves on this issue. A call for civility is the only thing they all can agree on. The correct stance is to oppose illegal immigration. The opposite stand will open a Pandora's box of more widespread ignoring of laws - all tacitly endorsed by the Church. They have waited too long to deal with this "don't ask, don't tell" issue.

fire_rooster

Enforce the law, be compassionate. Love your brother.

"Lamanites met others who were seeking liberty. And the land soon welcomed all who wanted to be free. Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be."

-Book of Mormon Stories hymn

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