We have lots of kids (nontaxpayers) and not very many adults (taxpayers). We
are always going to spend less than states where that is the opposite. I work
in education and I always wish I had more to spend. However, I understand the
economics. I am proud of our state as a whole on how we spend our taxpayer
money. We have to pay for roads, police, fire, education, government
administration, etc. Yet, unlike the federal government we balance our budget
and our leaving our grandchildren with the opportunity to have the same quality
of living. The federal government and many states are an embarrassment with the
way they spend money.
THESE lists are irrelevant,THESE comparisons are irrelvant, the only relevant thing is finding what is the actual exact cost
per pulil for education.PLease enough with silly lists.LIsts only enocourage more spending and more taxation, and
DOES NOT focus on waht is of real importance, WHAT is the actual
proper amount to spend? WHAT is the exact dollar figure does take
to educate one student?
The public education figures included in this report contain higher education
among other expenditures. If you separate the numbers, elementary and secondary
education are at a lower percentage than they were in the 1990's, and is also
below the 2008 US average. Utah’s policy makers need to fund elementary
and secondary public education at levels that meet the needs of Utah’s
children. A fair funding system:Can reduce class sizes
to a level that allows deeper assessment and assistance to studentsIs key to better teacher quality by improving salaries and working
conditionsCan pay for more targeted specialists (math, writing, etc)
The revenues invested in elementary and secondary public education
are an investment in our children’s and our states future.
@Joe Joe"...Utah spends the same per student as the top state. Which
by the way does not make the that state the top in quality of education."What?
Democratic soultion to education funding - Raise taxes by 90% than give all that
money to the teachers. I'm not sure it will make the teachers teach
any better but at tleast they will be happy because Utah spends the same per
student as the top state. Which by the way does not make the that state the top
in quality of education.
Public schools spend thousands per student. In Washington state where I live
they spend over $9,000 per child per year. If they have an average class size
of 30 then they spend $270,000 per classroom.I defy anyone to spend
that much money on 30 kids wisely.I homeschooled my children.
Homeschooled children test in the 80th to 90th percentile (public schools are at
the 50th percentile by definition). You can purchase excellent homeschool
curriculum for under $100 (A2 Curriculum). It covers k-12 and everyone in the
family can use it. Homeschooling methods are more effective than public school
(Read "A Thomas Jefferson Education") and it costs far less.My point
is that spending does not translate to better education, just richer school
administrators and more powerful teachers unions.
Utah should move to the voucher system and require proof of legal residency to
obtain vouchers.Let the Fed's pay for the children of illegal
aliens. After all, according to the recent law suit states do not have the
authority to deal with illegals.
Duh. Utah has more children.scambuster | 11:21 a.m Good point!
There are too many factors that go into a child's education to blame just one
item like spending. You have to look at the child's home life, social-economic
status, friends, teachers dedication, teachers stress levels, the school's
commitment to each student, how the teacher works with the parent and the
student, how well the district spends it's money, the types of programs the
district offers, the overall funding the district receives, how much the state
is funding education, how professional the state treats educators and so on and
so on.This is a different culture of students we are dealing with.
Many of them are not motivated. They expect the world to be handed to them. And
when it's not, they give up. You cannot force someone to be motivated and one
persons influence can only go so far. If we want to improve education in Utah,
we need to start improving the culture of education of Utah from spending to
This scam is busted: If the entire Utah budget was cut to $10 and the
legislature spent $3.36 on education, that would mean Utah would have a
percentage of 33.6% of the budget going towards education and I have no doubt
that Bramble would still be congratulating himself on a job well done.
Percentages can be very misleading. Here is an example. Let us say that the
Utah Legislature decided to cut the state budget in half and therefore taxes in
half, meaning every program would be cut in half. That would mean Utah would
still spend the same percentage towards education but the per pupil funding
would be cut in half. Does that sound like a commitment to education? No. The
most important number in determining commitment to education is the per pupil
funding in which Utah is dead, dead last.
Nicely spun Bramble, but Utah should be number one on the list given the number
of students we have and the supposed strong family values. The fact that nine
other states outspend Utah and have far fewer students to contend with shows a
lack of commitment to education.
Spin it how you like Bramble.Utah could be achieving so much more
with only a little bit more funding.Instead our legislators sit back
and say, "see, we are getting more bang for our buck."We could be
leading the nation in all categories for education but we would rather repave
another road instead of making our state great.
Spending a third of our budget on our children's educational future is
meaningless when we spend last in the nation on per pupil spending. Utah is
definately not the poorest state in the nation.==="Sen.
Curtis S. Bramble, R-Provo, chairs the Senate Education Committee and said the
recent study is consistent with how he and his colleagues approach education."It demonstrates that Utah has a high level of commitment to education,"
Bramble said."===No, having per pupil spending last in
the Nation shows your commitment to education, a fact that won't be lost on this
voter every November until it changes.If this is consistent with how
he and his colleagues approach education, then we need to get rid of the
incumbents, every last one of them.
procuradorfiscal | 6:44 a.m. July 15, 2010 "It'll be interesting to see
how the educators' trade union -- the UEA -- spins this into a bad news
story."Utah is a Right to Work State. It is not a Union, but an
association. The Association is weak in Utah.===ezfisher | 8:29 a.m.
July 15, 2010 "The problem is not illegals or low spending on education...
Smaller class sizes have little effect on learning."Regarless of
your expert analysis, most data shows student success in smaller classroom. And
data shows more failing students at schools where the students come from a lower
socio-economic background.Both your assertions fall flat in any
valid research you find on the subject.(Asserting that a minority
student is an illegal alien is stereotyping.)
33% of little to miniscule is nothing to be boasting over.
It's time to eliminate the per-child tax deduction. "It
demonstrates that Utah has a high level of commitment to education," Bramble
said.No, it does nothing of the sort, Curt. It shows a pathetically
low level of commitment to education and a high level of commitment to bedroom
activities that produce offspring. That's all.
The problem is not illegals or low spending on education. We seem to enjoy
blaming someone else or some outside influence for our problems. Certainly more
money would be nice, but what are we doing now with what we have? Smaller class
sizes have little effect on learning. The greatest effect on whether your child
learns is what you do. If you do not take an interest in your child's learning,
it doesn't matter what the state does. For those blaming the illegals, my
wife teaches in an elementary school which is predominantly minority children.
Some probably undocumented. The majority of the minority children are eager to
learn and do well. Many of the white kids make little effort, and waste their
time at school. The difference is that the parents of the hispanic kids want
their children to learn and actively participate at home. The parents of the
white kids are too high to help or simply do not care. Taking color and legal
status out of the equation, who would you be more inclined to help get an
Here's some spin for you people that hate public ed.1. 10 years ago
education was above 40% of Utah's budget now, according to this article, it is
only 33%. That is a serious drop in percentage of spending for education. 2. Utah has one of the leanest state budgets in the nation. Our conservative
legislature hates government spending and so even though they may rank 10th in
percentage of budget for education, the overall budget is crazy low already-
hence the $5,765 per pupil spending. 3. Utah ranks in the top 5 for child
to adult ratio. Utah's budget should have a huge percentage of its budget going
to children (education). So the percentage data is meaningless here.4.
Utah's test score ratings have been dropping over the last decade. Clearly the
lack of funding in education is affecting that. 5. Utah has the largest
class sizes in the nation- by a lot. Again a lack of spending.6. Utah
parents have lots of kids but don't want to pay the taxes to educate them.Utah wants a champagne education on a beer budget- cheap champagne is
It's interesting that Bramble and his pals in the Senate and house can talk
about their commitment to education. Over the past 12 years they have amended
the constitution to allow the education fund to be diverted to other programs.
Then, to gain more votes (and to pay back their corporate sponsors)changed the
tax structure to give big business and the rich tax breaks. And to top it off
they altered the income tax structure to reduce even more funding to education.
Sound to me like they have systematically set public education up for failure so
that they can push through vouchers to save us from our failing education
@pharmacistMy wife is teacher in an elementary school that has over
1,100 students and the overwhelming (over 95%) majority of students appear to be
from legal families. It is large families who value their boats and vacations
over their children's education.
We don't invest enough into our greatest resource; the kids. There
are plenty of people who tell others not to have more kids if they can't afford
them. As a state we produce more kids than we can properly afford to educate.
Spin the stats how you want. We spend less to educate each kid than
any other state by far. Educational efficiency can only do so much to try to
bridge the gap.
It'll be interesting to see how the educators' trade union -- the UEA -- spins
this into a bad news story.
@pharmacist: the stupidest thing we could do as a country is stop educating the
children of illegal immigrants. do you honestly want them roaming the streets,
truant, during the hours in which these kids could be learning how to better be
a part of the mainstream? Why not force them all into gangs now? I'm
curious how these numbers pan out "per child spending" rather than as a
percentage of state budget. I think Utah has different priorities than other
states, and thus it should reflect upon the state's spending priorities. We
simply can't have to as high a degree as others the same number of other
state-run entitlements and services, due to the family orientation of this
state. (And that's cool with me.)
6000 bucks per kid and this is all we get, the system is broken.
For my money, being tenth in anything to do with education is not good -- we
should be number one. And we are #51 our of 51.This has been true
for a long time, but our standing on the performance side -- which was once very
strong -- is starting to slide. We are no longer ranked highly in numbers of
high school graduates, college attendance, test performance, and several other
areas. That's simply not acceptable. Utah was number one years
ago, and now it's fallen. The Republican leadership, Bramble and others, are
okay with that because their objective is to see a hue and cry about this issue
and then solve it with a voucher system which will complete destroy educational
standards for the non-elite, but the elite will get what they want -- better
education for their own children at the expense of the greater public.The answer is a whole new legislature. Vote the scoundrels (Bramble et al)
This report only proves how inaccurate that per pupil spending is calculated by
educators. Perhaps these organizations should get together and all use the same
information and methods of calculating education funds. Perhaps in might even
reveal how much of Utah's education funds are diverted to developers and UTA in
non education spending.Utah families size is not as important as how
education funds are spent. Tens of millions of dollars of these funds are used
outside of education and called long term investment spending. Since when are
education funds and investment fund?Then also there is the 20% of
students who are illegal who don't pay taxes at all yet expect that schools also
be day care centers for their unwanted children.One other statistic
that this report failed to reveal is population to tax ratio for education. Many
of the other states ahead of Utah has more than twice the population of Utah and
the tax burden is lower. Only 53% of Utahan's, a figure established by tax
departments, pay taxes so the burden is high on working citizens.
Proves again, figures lie and liers figure...
Utahans choose to produce large families and then not pay to educate their
children. THAT is the problem.
@abr2116 9:39Regarding "stay-at-home moms" being an antiquated idea,
might I toss in: your perspective is equally skewed, just on the other end of
reality. I come from a family of four boys, and three have wives that do not
work. The one that does have a job started working because her husband lost his
job and is still searching, but she didn't before. We are firmly in the
lower-middle class, too...by no means rich. We feel fortunate to be able to do
this, and understand that many can't, and some don't want to if they could.
Although, now that I'm on that soapbox, I'm sure more could if they could stand
to have less house, less car, less cell phone packages, etc., etc., and --
interestingly -- maybe less children?
If you think that it is 'our culture' to have the man work and the woman stay
home with the family you are a still living in the 80s. In my Utah
neighborhood-100% LDS- in small town Utah, there are ZERO stay at home moms on
the street (17 homes). The stay at home mom is an antiquated notion even in
Utah!Why is it a bad idea to ask those with big families to pay
more? Those who choose to have big families, it is a choice after all, should be
expected to provide for their children. Someone has to pay for educating your
children, why not you? Consequences for actions encourages responsible behavior.
Regardless of how Bramble spins it. Utah still only ranks 41st in % of money
per $1000 that goes toward education and dead last in spending again.It would have to spend 20% more just to tie for last. NO Mr. Bramble, Utah is
not committed to children or education. SPIN THAT?Until Utah's
legislators and population get fed up nothing will change.
True, this is about demographics more than anything else. It is our
culture to have large families. And, it is our culture to have the man work
while the woman stays at home. So there is only one income for as many as five
or six kids, while in other states there may be two income earners for one or
two kids. It's our own fault. We demand large families and only one
parent to work.
RE Lance.LeVarSo how much do you propose? And what would you cut
first to fund education? Is there an area of the budget we are spending too
much money on that could be better spent in education?A solution has
been propose(and shot down by state educators) to allow the use of education
vouchers. It seems like there is only ONE solution in the minds of the
education establishment and that is more money. So either we tax
larger families more (which seems like a bad idea) or we rob from one part of
the state budget to give education more.
Just a thought, Utah is considered easy on illegals, and we are educating their
children. Perhaps we need to change laws that require proof of citizenship of
ALL children going to school in this state. Then our taxes can help our
children, not the illegals.
As mentioned, Utah has higher family sizes. When a family chooses to have more
children, a larger portion of that family's income should go to the care of
their children (unless they just start bringing in more money). The
fact that we spend a larger portion of our budget on education is a non-issue.
We, as a state, have chosen to have large families. We now bear the
responsibility to fund their education at the cost of other areas of the budget.
Utah ranks #1 in Education Efficiency, which is a measure of 'bang for the