Comments about ‘In our opinion: Guest worker plan intriguing’

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Published: Friday, July 2 2010 12:04 a.m. MDT

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JBrady

How would you propose enforcing it so they stay here in Utah? That would have to be done to stay even close to compliant? Hire hundreds of Utah immigration officers?

With 10% unemployment, and no unemployment benefit extension, you want to create a bigger problem?

CJ

Intriguing???? This is the stupidest idea of all time. It fits the DN amnesty agenda however so let's talk about how "intriguing" it is. Are you guys for real? While we are issuing a pass to illegal alien lawbreakers let's go several steps further and include all lawbreakers. How about an ATM card for bank robbers so they don't have to steal from the bank? They could get it legally. Let's give drunken drivers a special pass to drive drunk once a month so they will limit their drunk drinking to one day instead of every day.
Why don't you call the current unemployed in Utah and see if they think we need to accommodate illegals who send most of their money back to Mexico and don't have to pay taxes on it? The DN is so far out of whack with the people of this state on this issue I am surprised you have any subscribers left.

JMT

America used to have a great guest worker program. It was called the Bracero Program. While it was in place roughly a million workers a year came to America. They did not overload our education or health care system as they were able to travel freely, and did not bring their family with them. They had to take care of their own health insurance. During this period of time there were less than 100,000 illegal immigrants a year in our country. And while they worked they could also apply for citizenship.

This program had some problems. The biggest is that the comply employing them held their visa. This lead to some serious problems of abusing workers, which lead to communist Caesar Chavez and Senator Ted Kennedy killing the Bracero and giving us the multi-level junk we have now.

Clearly, a functional Guest Worker Visa modeled after the Bracero is a significant step in fixing this problem. The bigger problem: Democrats want millions of new voters tied to government entitlements; Republicans want cheap labor. Between the two, neither party wants legitimate reform.

Once we have serious people at the table we can fix this.

NCAEFrank

The writer poses a good idea, however guest worker and immigration programs must be addressed at the federal level. There is a program for agriculture that would do what Mr Brady proposes, it is calle AgJOBS and has languished in the U.S. Congress far too long as a political football caught in the never-never-land of partisan politics. It is time to pass AgJOBS legislation, as sponsored by CA Senator Fienstein and co-sponsored by many others THIS YEAR to preserve and protect American agriculture.
Frank A. Gasperini
Executive VP, National Council of Agricultural Employers, Washington, DC

himself

Thomas Jefferson, in the Declaration of Independence
said to the King of England, in complaint:

"for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners;"

Please discuss and make these words fit your own view.

The Sensible Middle

An Arizona law should definately be off the table. This approach is unfair to AMERICANS who happen to look as it they might be foreign. Lets keep in perspective that punishing Americans because others are breaking what amounts to a civil law that is akin to jaywalking or speeding, is really making a mountain out of a molehill.

Other approaches need to be looked at. At the very least, people who are here willing to do work Americans shun should be documented and given the chance to do so. Documenting them has the added advantage that it makes it more probable that both the workers and employeers pay all taxes and fees, all this is good.

People who work hard and play by the rules can only be a benefit to our community. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, lets keep the hard working ones. Lets also go after gangs who commit crimes of all stripes, lawless gang menbers of what ever their national origin need not be tolerated.

Utah can lead the nation by example, and show others there is an enlightened way to turn this problem into an advantage.

Another Perspective

re JMT | 6:36 a.m. July 2, 2010

--------------

You seem to be in favor of re-introducing the Bracero Program, is that correct?

Yet you say that people weren't allowed to bring their families. If we benefit by the labor of these people, why do we want to institute a program that makes them spend months or years away from their families, when we could easily allow them to be with their families.

How would you like it if your employeers said to you, .. "So long as you are employeed by me, you shall be away from your family"?

We should be in favor of what is good for families, not opposed, we should be in favor of strong family values, not opposed. You need to re-think your position. We can do better than what the people did back in the 1950's.

Ultra Bob

The guest worker idea is great, it allows America to aid and support other nations.

However, we should not allow unscrupulous businessmen to do harm to America by bypassing the laws and regulations that Americans have worked for over the centuries.

Wage scales and working conditions should be those determined by American standards and not the standards of a foreign country.

Question

Ultra Bob | 8:30 a.m.

If you think the guest worker program is a good idea... first read your history. We already tried this and it DIDN'T work.

Read up on the "Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986". Hint... It didn't work. And it went down this same path.

The third part of the act was...
- Granted a path towards legalization for agricultural seasonal workers (hint... Guest Worker Program).

Did it work? Obviously not!



The other two prongs of the attack also didn't work (but are being touted as "THE ANSWERE TO ALL OUR PROBLEMS" again today). They were...

1. Require employers to attest to their employees' immigration status, and granted amnesty to certain illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously
2. Make it illegal to knowingly hire or recruit illegal immigrants (immigrants who do not possess lawful work authorization)

These were the 3 major parts of the "1986 Reform Act"... IT DIDN"T WORK!!!

We didn't send the message that if you cross illegally you WILL get caught and punished... The message was... Come_illegally. Have_a_baby. Get_a_lawyer_and_everything_will_be_fine!

So we are where we are today.

Another Perspective

Question | 9:19 a.m. July 2, 2010
re Ultra Bob | 8:30 a.m.

Read up on the "Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986". Hint... It didn't work.

---------------

These people are now documented, leading productive lives, paying all their taxes, giving the USA labor of the kind we really would rather not provide for ourselves. Seems like its working pretty well to me.

Question

Another Perspective | 9:32 a.m.

Good point. I was thinking mostly about slowing down the flow of illigal immigration.

But the 1986 reform DID help some people who were already here illegally, and helped them become legal and live productive lives (instead of living in the shadows).

But that generation has just been replace by yet ANOTHER 12 Million people who decided to take their chances and come here illegally... hoping another amnesty program would cover them, or they could stay long enough to have kids (so the soft American's wouldn't send the parents of these legal children home leaving the children orphans in the USA).


It just didn't work to slow or stop future immigration problems. It just put off any real solution.

But you are right. It probably helped many people who were in a tight spot in 1986 (the same tight spot 12 million NEW people are now in today).

Lowonoil

If you vigorously protect immigrants from labor exploitation you will rob them of their relative advantages as potential employees. This is a political nonstarter; the politically influential industries who profit from exploiting illegal immigrants will put an end to it.

Oh Please

I have a coworker with a Hispanic name. Born in Albuquerque, he's a 4th generation US citizen. But he is now scared to death of the Utah legislature. I told him he'd better start carrying his passport wherever he goes.

Question

Lowonoil | 9:55 a.m.

What "politically influential industries" profit from illegal immigrants?

I thought it was the small business owners who hired them. I didn't know they had a lot of clout in Washington.

If you know any BIG companies that systemically exploit illegal laborers... you should turn them in. That's the only way to stop it you know.

Once a few big companies get punished, and the punshment gets publicised in the media, people will start thinking twice about hiring the cheeper illegal worker insted of the legal worker (with less legal risk).


Till WE start doing that... what do you expect to change?



Oh Please | 10:00 a.m.
What a Drama Queen. You made me laugh so hard. Thanks.

This guy's scared to death of the Utah legislature... because he has "A hispanic NAME"! Haaaah! And YOU told him he BETTER be scared, and start carrying his passport in Utah.... What a hoot!

praxis

There is already a Guest Worker program - why does Utah feel they need -or even can- create a separate program?

No state can enter into agreements with foreign governments and that is exactly what Shurtleff, Mero and Rep. Robles are proposing. Utah creating a "guest worker" program is in direct violation of Federal immigration law and the supremacy clause.

Only Congress/Federal Gov't can create a guest worker program and they already have:

-Permanent Labor Certification: A certification issued by the Department of Labor (DOL) allows an employer to hire a foreign worker to work permanently in the United States.

-H-2A Temporary Labor Certification (Seasonal Agricultural): Program for agricultural employers who anticipate a shortage of domestic workers to bring nonimmigrant foreign workers to the U.S. to perform agricultural labor or services of a temporary or seasonal nature.

-H-2B Temporary Labor Certification (Non-agricultural): Program permits employers to hire foreign workers to come temporarily to the U.S. and perform temporary nonagricultural services or labor on a one-time, seasonal, peakload or intermittent basis.

Question

praxis | 11:06 a.m.

Good point.

These are good programs (better than the run accross the border and hide, and if you can survive and stay under the radar long enough they can't send you back)... approach.

My company has sponcered several H2B workers over the years. It's a good way to go. The government KNOWS they will have a job (and not just mooch of the government) and they KNOW who they are (they aren't a security risk) and they KNOW they have means of support (our company has to guarantee that).

It's a good way to go for temporary work permits.

tenx

Shurtleff lost my vote when he went to the Pro-Amensty ralley and in Spanish told them he was with them. Refused a invitation to attend a Anti-Amensty ralley. He is just not wanting to be left out of a solution. Don't trust him.

SLars

Shurtleff, The Salt Lake Chamber, and the Sutherland Institute want to give amnesty?

Don't they realize that it was the 1986 amnesty that caused this mess?

Not only would it cost Utah a fortune in legal fee's, court cases, immigration officers etc. But like the 1986 amnesty would have people from all over the country claiming to have lived here, tying up our courts for 10 years like the original amnesty did.

And it would start a mass immigration to the super sanctuary state of Utah. Think tank? for who's benefit?

CJ

I have found one sure way to not get your comments posted,,, disagree with the DN amnesty agenda, if you come up with a valid difference of opinion your comments will never see the light of day.

Fitness Freak

My guess is that Shurtleff, Sutherland, S.L. chamber, et.al. - know FULL WELL their idea is goofy. They can't be THAT STUPID.

First off: what makes them think illegal alien invaders have ANY INTENTION WHATSOEVER in obeying the law? Why SHOULD they even apply for a work permit? They're already here gaming the system.
Second: they slam the Arizona law, yet what they're PROPOSING goes far beyond the Arizona law. Courts would laugh the state of Utah out the door because ONLY the Feds have the right to issue work permits to illegal aliens!


This idea is just another way to DELAY the deportation of illegal alien invaders!

Dumbest idea I've heard all week, especially with actual Utah LEGAL CITIZENS' unemployment running at 9%!

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