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Comments about ‘Founding of America and LDS gospel Restoration are divinely connected’

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Published: Wednesday, July 3 2013 5:00 a.m. MDT

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hbeckett

very true, thank you

sharrona
layton, UT

RE: The new star that announced the birth at *Bethlehem? It was in its precise orbit long before it so shone.
Book of Mormon, ”(Jesus)…born of Mary at *Jersusalem … who shall be overshadowed and conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost(Spirit) and bring forth a son yea, even the Son of God. ( Alma 7:10).

"In *Bethlehem in Judea," they replied, "for this is what the prophet(Malachi) has written:".( MT 2:5). Fulfilled Prophecy is what separates the Holy Bible from all other books..

Say No to BO
Mapleton, UT

For more on the subject, read "The Great Prologue" by Mark E Petersen.
For even more on the subject, read "Just and Holy Principles," a BYU American Heritage text.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

If you start with a preconceived idea, then work backwards, one can make just about any connection one wants.

One could also speculate that if Joseph Smith was living in Miami, he may have found the plates there.

ImABeliever
Provo, UT

I know the founding Fathers were inspired of God. As General George Washington took 12,000 troops to Valley Forge in 1777 with very little food, shelter, and money and over 2000 troops dying in the dead of winter to solidify this country he prayed that God would send relief. God did send relief and they received food, shelter, and money and were able to carry on to cement our wonderful country known as the United States of America.
May the leaders of this day turn to God.

Hutterite
American Fork, UT

You can believe what you will about your church, but the founding of America is not 'divinely connected'. America is the product of people who wanted it to happen; smart, university educated elite people, in many cases. God does not suspend the laws of nature and physics to intervene in the outcome of sporting events, nor the founding of the nation. The new nation took strength from the freedom it afforded individuals, a freedom we seem bent on eroding today as we try to force a veneer of religion over it.

Twin Lights
Louisville, KY

Sharrona,

Alma is writing 500 years after they had left Israel. He is referring to a small city about 5 miles away from one of the only major cities that probably survived in their history.

Even in the modern world, when folks are from small towns near a large city and travel to another area, they often just reference the larger city (as no one will know the small city they are from).

The text is “at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers” so the reference here is to the historical place from which they came, not necessarily the specific city.

This is all consistent with something written half a world away about a land they left half a millennia ago.

Folks who say Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon accuse him of Machiavellian genius and of having access to all kinds of books and other materials in order to write the Book of Mormon. But he can’t get the right city for where Jesus was born? Something every simple kid likely knew?

Not likely.

bandersen
Saint George, UT

Amen! "The truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done." Joseph Smith. The stone is rolling!

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

I’m never quite sure if our evolved pattern identifying and meaning placing tendencies are a good thing or a bad thing. No doubt it helped us survive at a time when we were one of the weakest predators on the plains, but today it seems to function more like the appendix.

What’s troubling about an article like this is this is exactly how myths get started. And once something (e.g. a nation’s founding) gets mythologized there is real danger that many of the facts that lead to the founding will be forgotten because… well… it was God’s doing.

bradleyc
Layton, UT

Um Hi JoeBlow!

You are absolutely correct. If Joseph Smith would have been living in Miami the Lord would have had Moroni deliver the plates to him there. It was indeed about Joseph Smith, his divine foreordained Mission and what needed to happen to restore Gods authority and church on the earth. The Hill in upstate New York was not the same hill where the Nephite nation perished. The plates were delivered to where Joseph, Son of Joseph and descendent of Joseph who was sold into Egypt happened to be residing at the proper time.

This country was founded by God fearing men and women who sacrificed much to create it. We must remember that when we turn our backs on God, he will not forget us but he will not continue to bless us. We are seeing that today in this nation. Our most prosperous times have been when our leaders stood up for what was right and righteous. Our leaders are no longer doing this and we should all be nervous and prepared for what will come.

raybies
Layton, UT

Along the same lines as this topic, Michael Medved sells a historical series of essays he did in which he posits that America's revolutionary win was quite miraculous. He documents a number of events that occurred that during the American revolution that were quite amazingly fortuitous convergences including freak weather events, and a sandbar that saved the city of Charleston from the British Navy. MM is not LDS, he's an observant Jew, but sees America as blessed by God. I found his presentation quite compelling.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

The notion that the American Revolution was the hand of Providence setting the stage for a restoration is a belief peculiar to Mormon charismatics. But God is conspicuously absent from the Constitution. And the inalienable rights under the Creator cited in the Declaration of Independence served as legal justification for political separation from English monarchy.

That’s not religious belief. That’s just hardcore history.

TMR
Los Angeles, CA

I think it is fine to make the connection between the restoration of the gospel and the founding of America, so long as that connection doesn not extend to unwarranted nationalism that justifies sins yesterday and today. For example, the fact that slavery was allowed by the founding fathers was wrong and should be a stain on their legacy. This fact does not detract from the "connection," but it should be part of the narrative.

Woody
Newbury Park, CA

I don't look upon this article as convincing others that the Church is true because of the path the country took. Jesus is the Savior regardless of there being a new star seen in the sky. It should, however, inspire those that are members to give thanks to God for His blessings. Signs are for those who already have faith.

Tolstoy
salt lake, UT

I have a had time buying the concept that our country was the result of divine intervention when its founding came at such a great and horrible cost to the inhabitants that were already here at the time. our founders were good and brave people but they were not perfect and rather then gloss over their mistakes and justify them as being divinely inspired perhaps we can learn from them.

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

In the buildup to 1776, American colonists based their grievances against the crown on their rights as Englishmen under English law. The Declaration marked a radical departure by abandoning that stance in favor of claiming inalienable rights under the Creator. In other words, the King knew what he could do his English law.

That breakthrough was fueled by publication of a widely read incendiary pamphlet titled Common Sense, written by an anonymous author who identified himself as an Englishman. The author was Thomas Paine, an atheist who oddly enough employed Biblical references to make a stirring case for American independence as the logical next step for Americans to take. The moment couldn’t have been more ripe for such an incitement.

Paine’s later writings included the atheistic Age of Reason which caused contention within Joseph Smith’s own family. Paine is marginalized in American celebration of the Revolution. Had he not written the later book, he might occupy a place today as one of the founding fathers

BoMerit
Alpine, UT

Craig Clark,

I hope readers will reject your assumption in Paine's presumed atheisism; considering Paine himself referred to himself as a Deist who believed in the God-directed Creation and hoped that God would help him enjoy a happier life after he had died. This is right in the subject pamplet itself - Part 1 no less.

Having extreme disappointment in the prevailing churches - as did Washington, Jefferson and other Founding Fathers - does not make them atheist and does not even qualify as proof they did not have a supreme hope in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament and Jehovah of the Old. There are numerous statements by all these embattled Founding Fathers that suggest that the vast majority were God-fearing men who believed that the churches of their day had left the truth and ancient faith. They did the best they could, and your argument that they did not believe in God is groundless.

JoeBlow
Far East USA, SC

"The Hill in upstate New York was not the same hill where the Nephite nation perished."

Seems to be some real confusion on that

""The great and last battle, in which several hundred thousand Nephites perished was on the hill Cumorah, the same hill from which the plates were taken by Joseph Smith, the boy about whom I spoke to you the other evening." (Talk given by Apostle Orson Pratt, Feb. 11, 1872 Journal of Discourses Vol. 14, pg. 331)

Tyler D
Meridian, ID

@BoMerit – “I hope readers will reject your assumption in Paine's presumed atheisism; considering Paine himself referred to himself as a Deist… and your argument that they did not believe in God is groundless.”

“Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of God, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge. Deism holds that God does not intervene with the functioning of the natural world in any way, allowing it to run according to the laws of nature. For Deists, human beings can only know God via reason and the observation of nature, but not by revelation or supernatural manifestations (such as miracles) – phenomena which Deists regard with caution if not skepticism.”

I doubt this would in any way qualify as a “believer” in the Judeo-Christian understanding. And since a Deist believes God does not intervene in the natural world in any way, the distinction between an Atheist and a Deist looks like a distinction without a difference.

Thomas Paine was the Christopher Hitchens of his day… and a great American!

Craig Clark
Boulder, CO

Bo Merit,

"....They did the best they could, and your argument that they did not believe in God is groundless."
______________________________

Since I made no such argument about the founding fathers, I’ll grant you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you simply didn’t bother to read my post very carefully.

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