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Leaders on both sides of debate say new bill won't force illegals from state

Published: Sunday, June 27 2010 8:32 p.m. MDT

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Fiscal Hawk

It may not be perfect, but it's chipping away at the big problem of illegal immigration. The bottom line is; we need immigration for a stronger economy in the future. We don't illegal immigration in any way, shape, or form.

Brer Rabbit

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!! We heard these same cries a year ago when SB-81 went into effect. None of the bad things happened then, and they won't now. In addition 85 percent of cities/towns simply ignored the law, as did half of the counties, and a third of the school districts.

If the illegal alien enablers think that SB-251 is a problem, there will be real laws with real teeth passed in the 2011 legislative session.

This law goes into effect Thursday. If anyone sees the sky falling, please report it.

cerana

Just do the right thing, people. When we justify our actions against any law, that's where the problem occurs. This stupid problem we are having is because of people disregard to this law. FREAKING JUST OBEY THE LAW, for crying out loud!

Geneina

Roger Tsai fails to mention that many of the illegal aliens who were working for companies that were raided were hired before the companies adopted E-Verify. (E-Verify can only be used to check new hires).

Juan Manuel Ruiz, president of the Latin American Chamber of Commerce, said that will make stolen IDs "worth a premium to those who have no choice but to [commit felonies] to stay and be able to work."

So, Mr. Ruiz admits that illegal aliens commit felonies to get jobs. (It is a felony in Utah to use another person's social security number just as it is to use the person's entire identity - name, date of birth, social security number).

If employers do use E-Verify, it will preclude the vast majority of illegal aliens from getting jobs because full identity theft is so much more difficult than social security number only fraud which 75% of illegal aliens currently commit.

Finally, SB251 will end 100% of all illegal alien driven child ID theft which impacts over 50,000 Utah children.

Ask the businesses you frequent if they are using E-Verify. If not, take your business elsewhere.

VickieB

E-verify can't pick up newly created ID's, it takes time for them to become known to the system. That is the problem with just enforcing business compliance. We need the self deportation laws that Arizona has adopted.

I think having your company name missing from a website that shows compliance will hurt some business. I know if given the choice, I will shop at companies that use the system. Sometimes the market place is the best tool.

Ethel

What part if ILLEGAL do illegal immigrants not understand? This is a law that should have been taken more seriously before now. If one gets a speeding ticket, it is because they broke the law and could be arrested. That is the risk they choose to take when they come in undocumented to stay legally. This E-verify should have been in place all along. It is not a racist issue either, it is illegal immigration. They are still breaking the law.

I think the U.S. needs to be a lot more vigilant to screen them when these people come INTO the country, not wait until after they are here and by then it is too late. If we kept better track of them, and make them report or be accountable while they are here, maybe they would be less likely to be so sneaky to get in and stay.

Amnesty is not the answer either. Since when do WE have to change our laws to suit them. Other countries would not put up with that. Why should the U.S. have to do anything to accommodate their illegal activity?

patriotandmore

At least this is a step in the right direction. But, if an employer knowingly hires an illegal alien he or she should go to prison for 10 years per occurrence. The problem would be resolved in 30 days. Illegal aliens who can't find work will walk home just like they got here. A law should be passed that will eliminate the ridiculous "Anchor baby" bologna.

tq2

Put some teeth into it, strengthen the law. Employers have already figured out how to get around the law; they just form multiple companies and limit the employees in each company to less than 15--that way, the law does not apply to them.

The odd thing to me is that clearly the majority of illegals are hired by companies with less than 15 employees anyway, small landscaping companies, small contractors--why would the state not want this to apply to everyone?

dansimp

Or, we could take a deep breath, and a step back, then come at the issue with a compassionate eye to fixing the actual problems. If your problem is not paying taxes, stealing ids, burdening systems without paying into them, lets create a path to legal status and fix the actual problems. Someone with access to legal status has no need for a stolen id. The more strict the id laws, without an outlet to legal status, the more expensive you make illegal id's, you don't end identity theft, just put more money into the pockets of those that run the id theft rings.

To Ethel: we change our laws all the time, thats how our country is, and frankly I am proud of the fact that we specifically don't base what we do on what other countries domestic policies are, we are the United States, we are different.

Peter Coyotl

There are many valid arguments against illegal immigration, but why does the Des News seek out the head of the Utah Minutemen for a quote? He is an extreme (on his web site he stills espouses the Birther Theory about Obama) who rarely speaks facts on the issues about immigration.

Seeking out Eli Cawley for a quote on immigration is like seeking out Elmer Fudd for a quote on Second Amendment rights simply because he hunts "wabbits."

David B.

Anybody notice how this problem is passed down to the people to deal with and when the beaurocrats don't like what we're doing then they step in and put the kybosh on it!The Job belongs to the Federal Gov't.But the current adminstration fails to act because of an agenda they have.That's why Arizona did what they did and other staes are starting to follow!Now the the Gov't has their shorts in a bunch because we are doing what they should be doing.Well Washington you can't have your cake and eat it too!As far as Utah is concerned(and others)need to develope a complete tamper free I.D. card and if you provide it for possible employment no job and possible deportation.

Tom

I long for the day when we can look a an issue honestly and humility with out so much self righteousness. We are not looking at all the issues. We base out laws on slogans and talk radio hosts who make between 18 and 33 million + dollars a year how to think

cocosweet

RE: David B.

Oh please, it isn't the Obama administration (he has been in office for only 1 1/2 years and dealing with slews of other problems). How about the 8 years of the previous administration? But, please don't let the facts get in the way, no matter what good the President does you'll find a way to blame him.

The reason most illegal immigrants are here is for JOBS. You take away their ability to get jobs and you'll see a whole lotta people leaving. E-verify law needs teeth. I like what Arizona did... The business death penalty. First time you are found knowling hiring an illegal imigrant a hefty fine, the second time? You lose your business license. And it should apply to all business, no matter the size. E-verify isn't perfect, but it is a start.

Ethel

dansimp: The point is why change OUR laws to accommodate their illlegal-ness by amnesty? It is a duhhhh buddy about making laws. You missed my point.

I am all for upholding the CONSTITUTION not breaking it down, nor watering it down to say it is outdated in any way shape or form.

We need to look ahead to see what candidates have the backbone to stand up and defend the Constitution the way it was intended. It is hanging by a thread (again) by the way. We have allowed it to be trampled on like our flag is at times.

History is also being watered down and hidden from the true patriots. It is time to wake up from the slumber that lulls everyone to sleep for this all to happen right before our (sleepy) eyes.

Ethel


dansimp: The point is why change OUR laws to accommodate their illlegal-ness by amnesty? It is a duhhhh buddy about making laws. You missed my point.

I am all for upholding the CONSTITUTION not breaking it down, nor watering it down to say it is outdated in any way, shape or form.

My apology if that was misunderstood. Thank you.

Again, what part of illegal immigration is not clear here?

sunnymorsap

I often wonder if U.S citizens, (I say U.S Citizens not American, because Mexico is part of North America just as much as the United States.) ever stop to think what these immigrants give up to come here. Leaving familes, memories, what little things they do have...they leave to get a better life. At least majority of them do. Most, actually have expectations to return with a little bit of wealth for their families. However they're left with disappointment since they work hard doing cleaning jobs, (which as a U.S citizen myself, I would much rather they have that job than me; I don't want to have to clean toilets or dishes all day) for only enough income to support themselves in the states leaving them with nothing to send home. Most don't recognize that they send money home to help their families pay for food, medicine, clothing, bare necessities. Things that most in those countries (immigrants come from all over the world not just Mexico, majority are from Mexico but not all) they would have to save for months just to afford. People don't recognize that some come to learn.

cuscoln

Hmm Ethel ... interesting you should mention speeding. What part of illegal speeding do most drivers not understand. Why do we not have zero tolerance on speeders? If you go 46 in a 45, you are breaking the law. Why do police and photo-enforcement gear not bother with a ticket until you are going 10 mph over? The law is the law. Think of all the additional revenue that could be generated and all the dangerous speeders that could be taken off the road.

Reggie

When is the LDS church, and specifically the Deseret News going to realize that Law & Order is not just a TV show? I'm so sick of both of them cramming this "compassion" thing down my throat with a little sugar sweetener. The law is the law. Most Utahns side with tougher laws, and you keep trying to make us feel bad about it. Shame on you.

Fitness Freak

Pretty much all the legislation passed in Utah up to this point has been "look like you're doing something, while ACTUALLY doing nothing" legislation.

Businesses who contribute heavily to conservative candidates enjoy the monetary savings by employing illegals at slave labor rates.

I suspect if THIS YEARS' legislative agenda doesn't include something VERY SIMILAR to Arizona's laws, a lot of Utah legislators will be voted out of office.

Chris Cannon didn't think illegal immigration was important, neither did Bob Bennett.

Not_Scared

"E-verify can't pick up newly created ID's."

An ID must have what is called an unique identifier such as driver's license number. If a database is queried using two ID's it's real easy to compare the name on a social security card with the name on a license. If the SSN was randomly used, the odds of the SSN and the name matching are very poor.

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