Comments about ‘Fact or fiction? The myths and realities of illegal immigration’

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Published: Monday, June 28 2010 6:00 p.m. MDT

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Moosehead

This article is a complete and total waste of space. Illegals do commit crimes. They do evade taxes. They do take jobs from Americans. They do absorb billions of dollars in government services. They do send billions of dollars out of the country to the folks back home. They do deal drugs. The do commit identity theft. They do commit rapes, murders, robberies and assaults. They do routinely commit offenses that would land citizens in trouble, if not jail. And none of it could or would be happening if they weren't here illegally. Case closed. Send them home.

Moosehead

If illegal immigration is such a wonderful thing, why doesn't every country allow it?

Moosehead

The idea that the illegals are paying income taxes and social security taxes is ludicrous. Do you honestly think they are going to file a tax return without a social security number? Do you think the unscrupulous thugs who knowingly hire them are going to forward withholding taxes (or their matching portion) using social security numbers they know are false? And the illegals pay very little property tax because very few of them own property other than motor vehicles. The only taxes they pay fairly are sales taxes.....

Moosehead

If the population of the USA is 305,000,000 and 12,000,000 of them are illegals, that means illegals make up nearly 4% of the population. And since they have made it clear by their very presence that they don't believe in obeying laws, I think it is safe to assume that they commit at least 4% of rapes, robberies, murders, assaults, etc. I really don't think we need that much additional crime. Do you?

Moosehead

This whole article is fiction. And that's a fact....

johntakarl

Bunch of bunk... Anyone can get numbers to fit what they want! Who is behind the group that did the study is what I want to know.. Ties to someone I am sure... Illegal is illegal.

Global Warner

Excellent research-based reporting by some of Des News’ top & most credible writers. Thank you for interjecting a dose of data & sanity into the extremist allegations that have been promulgated by a range of hucksters including racist whites, Tea Partiers, some Utah legislators, & others who fear to keep America’s promise engraved on the Statue of Liberty: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
The America I love, as did Ronald Reagan, was to be “a shining city on a hill,” as he put it in his farewell address to the nation. He declared our America to be “a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, & teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony & peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce & creativity, & if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors & the doors were open to anyone with the will & the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, & see it still.”

Walt Nicholes

You have done what seems to be a pretty good job of "exploding the myths" by telling us what is NOT fact. How abut some research into what IS fact (and it is not just the flip side of NOT fact.)

Investigative reporters investigate. The numbers that this article came up with are just as soft as the ones they are designed to rebut.

So, how about the following: Send reporters (maybe even hispanic ones - do you have any of those?) to the streets and corners where hispanics hang out looking for work, and find out from them how many are illegal? Do similar interviews in emergency rooms. Do similar interviews at the prison. Do similar in the schools. Then publish your raw data as well as your interpretation of the data

Better numbers are needed.

Or, pass the law and see what happens. It can always be repealed if it doesn't turn up many illegals.

coltakashi

A lot of these statistics claim that it is impossible to distinguish illegal from legal immigrants. But when hospitals and schools and other government agencies provide services, they generally are required by law to provide translation services in order to NOT discriminate illegally against people on the basis of national origin and ethnicity. therefore, bimply by keeping track of the number of cases in which translation services were supplied, we would have an approximate surrogate for the number of illegal aliens being served. While some legal immigrants are not fluent in English, some illegal immigrants undoubtedly are fluent, so there should be a rough comparability between lack of english fluency and illegal immigrant status. Since translation services (often rendered using a telephone link to a commercial translation service) cost money, those costs have to be tracked, so hospitals and other service providers should have readily accessible data on the number of persons needing Spanish translation in connection with a public service. Before the Utah Legislature adopts Arizona's law, it should collect this real data first.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

If people are surprised by the Deseret News advocating treating our fellow sons and daughters or God as such and not as pieces of trash to be sent back to where they happened to be born (or in cases of some children, where their parents were born and they never have been) than they clearly do not listen to General Conference enough.

Señor

What would you do? Try putting yourself in the situation "illegals" find themselves. Any of us will do what we have to do to survive and best care for our families. If you have hate, fear, or disgust for Hispanics it's because you have no positive personal connection. Do you have an Hispanic friend? It doesn't matter if this friend is a legal citizen or not because because many folks just lump them together. I have spent a life time trying to understand the Hispanic culture. If we are trying to place blame where it belongs let us first blame the very corrupt Mexican government for making their county less desirable than the US. Next let us blame the US economy that encourages illegal immigration. Let's not place all the blame on human beings who, for the most part, are hard working, family oriented people. Why do they break the law? Why do you break the speed limit? Is it because laws that are very difficult to enforce are the ones that are most likely to be broken? Fear and hate will never replace an honest effort to UNDERSTAND.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

ST,
Your comment "if you don't like the law, than try to change it" seems a little odd in this context. Since people justify the denial of civil rights inherent in the Arizona law by saying it is a major crime wave we are dealing with and related things, it makes sense to seek to inform public policy with real statistics.

I do object to the articles statement about "misconceptions that white people have". Some of the most virulent anti-immigrant voices come from African-Americans firmly entrenched in inner cities, and in some cases even more so from African-Americans who have managed to move out of the slums.

A common claim is "if the illegal immigrants were black they would not be tolerated". This ignores the fact that a large percentage of immigrants from countries such as Ivory Cost and Senegal in New York City and Washington DC are here in violation of immigration rules. Most of them came here on tourist or student visas and just stayed after they expired, so it is slightly different than the situation of those who never had a visa, but essentially the same.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

The WorldNetDaily article, at least in the line quoted does not support Representative King's claim. "Without a Valid License" clearly includes revoked and suspended licenses.

Even people who drive with no license at all are not neccesarily illegal immigrants or immigrants of any type. There was a case recently involving a women who was born in Detroit who was involved in an accident in Ohio in which at least one of her children was killed. She not only did not have a license, she had never had a driver's license, although she had had a state revocation of her drivers license due to various stops for drunk driving and other traffic violations in the past.

Also, it should be noted that the study referenced does not even say that these are caused by people without valid drivers licenses. From the wording it could be someone driving down the street who lacks a valid drivers license and gets hit head-on by a drunk who has a valid license swerving across the median line.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Rep. King's letter is disturbing for another reason beyond the fact that it uses totally false statistics.

It is written in a way to make it seem that undocumented immigrants are killing "us Americans". However, some percentage of traffic fatalities from drunk driving involve a drunk driver crashing into a tree and dieing.

Such deaths are tragic. However they do not indicate that undocumented immigrants pose a threat to others. Realistically we should exclude one-car collision deaths of the driver from the stat.

Re-reading the stats it should be emphasized that the study said nothing about how many of these deaths involved drunk driving.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

"Taking jobs" is a false notion.
There is not a fixed number of jobs. Here in Michigan most of those who create jobs are immigrants. Entrepeneurs start up new companies and create new jobs all the time.

John Pack Lambert of Michigan

Due to the fact that Russians are rarely suspected as being illegal immigrants but some assume any Mexican is, the percentage of Latinos processed in the courts likely exceeds the actual percentage of Latinos among undocumented immigrants in Utah.

Not So Fast

This is the best story the newspaper has produced in year. Nobody does this kind of thing these days.

Vanka

Is this the John Pack Lambert of Michigan show?

There should be a limit on how many posts a single person can post, just as there should be a limit on the number of immigrants from other countries.

But we can't limit what we can't control. If unknown numbers of immigrants are entering the country illegally, we cannot limit how many enter the country.

Deportation Glitch Lady

"wrz | 11:33 p.m. June 27, 2010
True, and the penalty for speeding is a ticket and a fine. The penalty for being in this country without authority is deportation."

Great comparison, but why don't you go all the way. First time speeding ticket can be remedied. Those who are in the us without authority have remedies as well.

Without authority is a broad subject. If you become implicated in a crime you did not commit, you lose immigration status. You are now in the US without authority. If the backlog of files waiting at USCIS is the reason your file got misplaced and are now facing deportation because your file seemingly never made it to USCIS, you are in the US without authority.

Just a speeding driver can negotiate his status, so can the immigrant present in the US "without authority".

jg2010

So I was driving the other day and a cop pulled me over. My eyes were bloodshot and my car smelled like marijuana. Do you know what the cop did?! He searched my car and arrested me for possession of illegal drugs! Can you believe this! We need to band together and fight this kind of injustice! Can you imagine living in a country where you get punished for doing something illegal! Preposterous!

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