Comments about ‘Fact or fiction? The myths and realities of illegal immigration’

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Published: Monday, June 28 2010 6:00 p.m. MDT

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oldcougar

I'm sure many of you mean well and may even be religious. I hope you'll listen to your religious leaders and take a step back, take a deep breath...and err on the side of mercy and compassion. The problem, in my opinion, is the INS and our ridiculous immigration laws. I have worked to get a student here legally. Working with the INS was embarrassing to me as a citizen. I was treated like an animal and my student was treat worse. We need to overhaul the laws and the enforcement and make it easy for the law-abiding workers to get here and impossible for those who are criminals (other than coming her illegally) to come, to stay, or to ever return. If any of you hard liners were desperate to feed your families and your only two choices were to pay 10K and wait 10 years (you have neither time nor money) or swim the river. my guess is you'd swim the river...in a NY minute. Let's focus on changing laws...that will help.

K

You can always find a statistic that will prove your point. You can always leave out the ones that are contrary.

one vote

Reality is foreign to Utah.

Nobody_s Fool

@yomero - No it doesn't prove they are US citizens. Just another example of how several families will group together in one home, illegally using the address to enroll their children, thereby illegally obtaining benefits they & their children have no right to claim. It's been all over the local media here in El Paso, so don't accuse me of being biased for speaking the truth regarding the impact illegals have on everyday, law-abiding citizens.

Nobody_s Fool

@yomero - even better than my own opinion which you seem to think is so biased, The Dallas Morning News reported that over 12,000 illegal, undocumented & non-US citizens were able to pay in-state tuition in Texas & receive FEDERAL tuition assistance, under the Noriega rule, that is paid for out of my own personal tax dollars, that seems pretty biased when illegals are compensated for breaking the law when someone who plays by the rules isn't allowed the same help.

wrz

@Moderate 1:18 a.m.:

"Living in this country undocumented is a civil offense, just as driving faster than the speed limit is a civil offense. Neither are criminal offenses."

True, and the penalty for speeding is a ticket and a fine. The penalty for being in this country without authority is deportation.

"That is how the law sees it. If you don't like the law, change it, or move to another country."

We like it just fine. And what else we would like from the federal government is to enforce the law on the books.

Scooter

WOW!

After reading this, I am wondering about journalism & where it has gone!

When you are debunking a 'Myth/Internet Rumor' you should get more than one source, thus trying to eliminate 'Biased Evidence', then you should actually state if it is 'Fact or Fiction', not leave it at 'Well, since they did not collect/ask if they were leagal, we really can't tell.'

If I use your method of analysis: In my family there are 20 people (10 male, 10 female). 2 of them are drug users, 4 are overweight & 3 have a handicap. So statistically, 10% of the population are drug users, but we can't break it down by gender because we did not ask, but we will say they're male, because I had Chief 'So-N-So' tell me that males commonly are that way & he sould know!

This article did not prove or disprove any myth, it just added more 'Grey Area' to the cloud!

By the way, check out what the poster in the middle of the picture states: "Que Viva La Raza!!" ... Gee, I wonder what 'Race' they mean? ... The human race?

Radical Moderate

Wow, Scooter, after reading this, I cannot believe that there are still this many myopic racists in this country. The DN staff took common "myths," statement I read all the time from posters citing the harm done by illegals and then tried to support/verify them. In most cases, they were proven to be fictious. The "illegal immigration" problem is a bogus issue used to fragment the country and lead us to ruin. Illegals are not ruining this country. Racism, ignorance, and a refusal to view reality as it really is are the things ruining this country. What if we rewrite the laws to allow guest workers, streamline the system, make them legal, have them pay taxes, and just get on with life.

sagacity

wjalden wants the D-News to treat it's readers with respect. That means 'stick with the Fox News talking points! And don't try to confuse us legals with facts!'

juaneco

Easternobserver: wow! You have hit the nail right on the head!
"If we weren't lazy and choosy there would be no jobs for illegal immigrants" that is sooo right! Everyone, just think about it: if an employer could hire a legal worker to do what it needs who would do it with a great attitude, a smile and a thankfull heart as many immigrants (even those documented) do then why in heck would they risk hiring an undocumented worker?
And if most jobs taken by undocumented workers are the low skilled/low paid ones...shame on the parents of those unemployed for allowing their kids to become ignorant, unskilled, mediocre bums who have to fight for the crums against people who ovbiously have more heart, passion and spirit.
Those of you who are sending your kids to school to become janitors, landscapers and dishwashers be concerned and write negative comments to your heart's content. You and your children have very reason to be afraid and to feel doubtful about your future.

juaneco

On the other hand... those of us who are educated, can see patterns, are smart and have vision... perceive the growth curve, identify future needs, grab an opportunity and capitalize on the statistics presented here! Leave behind the mediocrity of those pesimistic loosers who are not only close minded have their already narrow view obscured by a scarcity mentality.
Send your kids to learn a second language: Chinese, Spanish, etc. Have them become immigration lawyers, have them learn from other cultures, send them abroad and allow them to see the world thorugh a different set of "lenses", different from the typical and sad set we are used to here in Utah. I promisse you that your kids will thank you and you'll be grateful to know they are not having to compete for the "fry guy" at the local hamburger joint.

Hunt

Hey byronbca, what party do O'reilly and Beck claim to be a member of? Since you are so sure of the fact that they spread propaganda I'm sure your spending a good amount of your time getting the facts straight. Posting information as fact that is so obviously false will only make you look about as ignorant as one Milwaukee County Board Supervisor who wants to join in the boycott of Arizona, because after all, they don't even boarder Mexico.

juaneco

On the other hand... those of us who are educated, can see patterns, are smart and have vision... perceive the growth curve, identify future needs, grab an opportunity and capitalize on the statistics presented here! Leave behind the mediocrity of those pesimistic loosers who are not only close minded have their already narrow view obscured by a scarcity mentality.
Send your kids to learn a second language: Chinese, Spanish, etc. Have them become immigration lawyers, have them learn from other cultures, send them abroad and allow them to see the world thorugh a different set of "lenses", different from the typical and sad set we are used to here in Utah. I promisse you that your kids will thank you and you'll be grateful to know they are not having to compete for the "fry guy" at the local hamburger joint.

Geneina

The reporters got some facts right but failed to draw all of the correct conclusions.

For example, the reporters correctly pointed out that the Social Security Administration has estimated about three-quarters of illegal workers have taxes for Social Security and Medicare taken out of their paychecks.

The reporters' conclusion is that these illegal aliens pay taxes and help prop up the struggling Social Security system. This is correct but another equally valid conclusion is that illegal aliens commit major felonies in order to get jobs.

In order to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes, illegal aliens have to have Social Security numbers (SSN) but because they are illegally in the U.S. they cannot legally obtain an SSN. Therefore, they fraudulently obtain SSNs and this is a felony.

When they use the fraudulently obtained SSNs to get jobs, they falsify their I-9 forms. That is perjury and another felony.

If the illegally obtained SSNs they are using belong to Americans, under Utah law that is also a felony.

Thus, the most important conclusion is that a minimum of 75% of illegal aliens are committing major felonies. These are crimes, not simple civil infractions.

Ginger

What I am seeing here is an attempt to cast some light on the urban legends connected with illegal residents. Of course it is not "balanced", the other, misleading side of the question is already out there. These are the answer which show they are misleading or groundless. One doesn't balance fallacy with truth, one replaces fallacy with truth. We should all be biased toward truth. That is not a 'liberal' position, that is a rational position.

If you still oppose the de facto immigration status in the nation after you remove these myths from your thinking, so be it. But don't build your conclusions on a foundation of sand.

A number of the comment also indicate a great deal of reliance on 'zero sum' logic: that there is a limited amount of work, care or wealth which must be divided between us all. This is really strange coming from those that have adopted the gospel of capitalist growth which asserts that innovation always brings growth and that growth is good. You can't have it both ways, either we grow and prosper together or your work ethic is based in a lie. Please choose only one.

azresident

Nobody's_Fool--great post. I wonder how many different means, such as the Noriega rule, the illegals receive funding from the taxpayers? I never heard of the Noriega rule but it doesn't surprise me. How many of our own kids who attend out of state colleges would love to be able to pay in-state tuition?

We ought to be noting and listing what we learn from each other on this board regarding illegals receiving state and federal funding.

Fender Bender

I refuse to accept the facts presented in this article because none of them 'feel' like the truth. I just don't get a sense of 'truthiness'.

Danish American

You can use statistic to prove anything you want if you start with the end in mind. Perfect example, man-made global warming. I can prove a correlation between peanut butter and cancer. Doesn't make the stats accurate.

100% of the illegals are a crime. That is the only statistic the article didn't quote. They are not undocumented--they are here illegally.

I wish they would have also looked into the movement among many of these illegals about rebellion and forcefully taking back what they think is their sovereign right--now that would have been a worthwhile article--not this dribble they wrote.

M. Butler

"The mere fact that it's easier to enter illegally from Mexico than from Darfur should not be an advantage for the pathway to a better life."

Some genius said that a long ways up.

Do you still agree if we make a minor change: "The mere fact that it's easier to live in the U.S. if you're born here should not be an advantage for the pathway to a better life"?

LDS

Thanks for a great article. Regardless of how, when or who does a study (even scientific), there are always those that refute and discredit the data. When our ideologies screen our perceptions, then we already "know" what is true even before we see facts!

Your study confirms what other studies have shown for the last decade. You are to be commended.

Here in Utah, where far-right ideology rules, we will never overcome the predjudice and hate toward Hispanics. A very loud and hateful minority seem to sway the elected officials in their lawmaking.

It is a sad tale of a people that should be a light unto the world of love. I believe it is a quiet majority here that do in fact love and want our Mexican and Hispanic friends to stay.

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