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Comments about ‘Fact or fiction? The myths and realities of illegal immigration’

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Published: Monday, June 28 2010 6:00 p.m. MDT

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attentive

re: Dumbo123 There's nothing more factual than an eye-witness account. I hope people will read what you wrote and will see that you aren't calling names but just stating facts. It seems obvious to me already what is happening to Utah. Watching the news day by day, almost every single crime in WVC has a connection with an illegal alien.

maximum

Some interesting observations on this article.

Twenty-seven percent of crimes are by Hispanics yet they only 28% of the population is Hispanic. Sounds like a disproportionate number of crimes are from Hispanics.

I wonder if all of the fake/stolen social security numbers used to pay income taxes are included in these crimes?

strider

RE: celtics77

I agree. Is this an issue of illegal immigration or is it an issue of color? I am very opposed to illegal immigration. However, I think legal immigration should be easier. I had a friend in Peru (mission) who had a master's degree in engineering. He had been waiting on a residency visa for 7 years.

Perhaps we selectively enforce immigration to keep our social status the way it is. Americans get the good jobs, illegal immigrants can come take the jobs we don't want. However, we don't have room in this country for educated people who might take away jobs we want to keep for "our kind."

I think the problem lies in the seeming paradox of policy and enforcement. We discourage people from coming legally yet we blatantly ignore those who come illegally.

jjc16

Oh no, the racists on the site are sooooo mad!!! They want to hate the illegal immigrants, but the hard facts and data just won't let them. How dare the facts get in the way of immigrant bashing!

jjc16

@maximum: I'm not sure what school you learned statistics in, but 27% of the population committing 28% of the crimes is exactly what one would expect statistically.


If it was 5% of the population committing 95% of the crimes, that would be an anomaly.

Ergo, illegal immigrants and Hispanics aren't responsible for a disproportionate number of the crimes committed in this state.

danaslc

Illegal. Job killing, welfare assistant killing, tax on the middle class, schooling for our children (horrible), crime, drugs and just plain cheating the system. What is there to like about illegal immigration? The only ones I know who like it are our Construction Companies, roofing companies, cement companies, food franchise companies, maid service companies, retail stores, restaurants and janitorial services. This is ironic because all we hear is doing the jobs American's won't do? That is lie and a farse. My son works construction, laid off and the illegal next is working. My teenager would like to work at a burger joint for extra money. Job taken. Illegal immigration is punishment to the middle class of america for the gain of Corporate America.

Drifter

Now I remember why I will not pay this paper for a subscription. This article is a bunch of crap.
All this so called reporter has to do is go to the jail and count the number of illegals there-it will be about 25 to 30%. Come on down to Provo and talk to the cops-it takes $20 to 30K a year to cover in up the graffiti on all the buildings. All tax money to jails and paint. Why do we let this go on? What has to happen to make people see what is coming? Drugs, gangs and prostitution. Why are U.S. Citizens putting up with this?????

Christine

Why is the racist mob so afraid of the truth? Why are they so blind and want to stay that way? Why is your prejudice more important than the facts?
Why is being right (although you're not) more important than being happy?

danaslc

We are not idiots and it is not just white as you so called us (putting us as a race). It is legal Hispanics, Legal Germans, Legal Citizens period that have a problem with Illegal, Illegal, Illegal. The is nothing wrong with legal immigrants there is so much wrong with Illegal Immigrants and if you noticed I did not mention a race like you did in this article. Your propaganda will not work. We have you pegged. You can say it like you want it, call it what you want and treat us like we are dumb. It won't work with the US citizen anymore no matter what the race. As Citizens of this country there is no race got it? We are American Citizens.

SLars

"Salt Lake City Police Chief Chris Burbank has suggested looking at prison populations to figure how many criminals are undocumented aliens."

This would of been a great start to the articles, as it dealt with hard facts, not picking and choosing with studies to believe. You contact the state and get the prision population for a particular day. Then break down the numbers. Another media outlet in town did the same thing, the first of August 2009. They found that the known (some had not had citizenship checked) illegal population under the state department of corrects was, 341. 254 were from Mexico, one from Europe, four from North America, 6 from South America, seven from Africa, 30 from Asiz, and 37% from South America.

Types of crimes? 43% sex offenders, 19% murder, drugs and alchohol 15%, personal crime 11%, property crime 6%, other 6%.

SLars

The article left out murders in Salt Lake City. From numbers obtained by KSL through Chief Burbank on May 3rd, for the past three years. (2006, 2007, 2008). White non Hispanic's committed 16%, Hispanic's 40%, Polynesian 19%, African American 22%, Native American, 3%.

He is hoping next time you question a larger demographic, and not use the obviously slanted numbers of Chief Burbank.

cc

UtahBlueDevil

So conservatives can fact check when they don't like what is reported, but it seems they lack that skill completely when they see something they like. I know, it is human nature, but the rants on this page about how liberal the Deseret News has become just shows how far extreme right some people have become. Some of Utah has slide so far right that kids sharing crayons in school would be socialistic now days.

I am suer there are issues with these numbers since many are derived and not direct. I think if you just take a step back and look at the overall message, it should just be a warning to both sides that not all numbers you read or hear from wither side should be taken at face value.

The article wasn't not justifying illegals, but rather just trying to ratchet down the radical rhetoric a bit. Evidently the fact that illegals are not the source of all of Utah's ills is quit disturbing to some.

UtahBlueDevil

A funny sidebar on this is DN in parallel to this story also has a story entitled "Book reveals truth about Obamacare". Now, do you think this was an objective review of the book? Hardly. And yet conservatives see one article that doesn't match the dialog they have created around health care and they scream the DN has become a tool of the liberal media. Talk about things becoming hyper emotional.

Balanced discussion has become a complete impossibility with some of these people.

attentive

One other comment that may or may not get posted: Who are the writers calling "white," as if it's a bad word or some kind of disease? Who's White anymore these days? Not many of any of us. We are all a little bit something other than lily white. So who are all these Whites and where do they live? How did anyone poll all these Whites anyway?

MCKat
Murray, UT

It is sad to see the number of people who would rather base decisions on rumors and myths than solid evidence. Is some of the evidence biased? Maybe. But it's more solid than just grabbing numbers out of thin air. At least this article cites its sources so readers can choose to look up the data themselves.

As for those posters who claim "illegal is illegal," they broke the law getting here so they are criminals," and those types of comments, it would be interesting to find out how many of them have had a speeding or parking ticket in the past five or ten years. Or how many of them have sped, parked illegally, jaywalked, or committed other minor offenses, but were simply never ticketed? They've broken the law, too. Shall we send the police out to arrest them?

The article didn't write the definitive story. But it's a much better starting point than most of the garbage that gets passed around or posted on worldnetdaily.

Incidentally, I like the new monitoring. A lot of hate still present, but not as much as before. Thank you, Des News.

A view from the Beltway
Purcellville, VA

Congratulations on writing a cogent, evidence-based article on an emotional subject. I am particularly impressed that you also cited relevant comparison groups. For example, the Consortium for Police Leadership in Equity study, compared the 27% drug crime and 26% violent crime rate to the 28% prevalence rate of all Latinos in Salt Lake City’s population. This indicates that in Salt Lake City, the hypothesis that the Hispanic illegals are causing a disproportional amount of crime is false.

Everyday citizens assume that “Washington” does not listen to them when “Washington” does not does not allocate massive resources every time a loud group of citizens claims there is a problem. In reality, the policy establishment has to choose between which each of our many national priorities needs to be addressed. When citizens demand decisions that are contrary to the best available empirical evidence, “Washington” is put into the uncomfortable position of having to decide between miss-allocating scarce taxpayer resources to appease interest groups or allocating scarce resources to solve real problems.

Since the hard empirical evidence shows that undocumented person crime is no higher than local crime, then scarce resources are better allocated to solving our real problems.

Conservative Veteran
Layton, UT

You may argue either way to support or be against the Arizona law, but isn't it a break from proper legal procedure for the federal judge to hear the case? As I understand it, this court should only have been heard by the US Supreme Court.

In the Constitution, Article 3, Section 2 reads:
"In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction."

In other words, the judge in the Arizona case had absolutely no constitutional jurisdiction over the matter upon which she ruled. As the constitution makes abundantly clear, only the U.S. Supreme Court can issue rulings that involve a state.

This seems so simple. Is there something I am missing here? I would enjoy additional comments from others on this. I am surprised not to here more on this topic.

A view from the Beltway
Purcellville, VA

Sorry jjc16, that was not the way the comparison was couched. They were not measuring the percentage of the various strata that committed crimes, rather of those that committed crimes, what percentage came from which stratum.

Ergo, totally different question leading to a totally diffent inference.

kreese
Taft, CA

Utah:

I was told that Utah's gang problem would be like California within eight years.

If this is true, is this what you want?

Keith39
Yuma, AZ

This is a impressive article filled with a great many percentages, which are matched against what total number. If there are two million people in prison how many of these prisoner illegal immgrants. I would belive you if your article put a number of illegal rather then a percentage.

When you talk about illegal immigration, you must look at the illegal immigant as a person who has commited a felony by illegally entering or stay in our country country. Then you have to say one hundred percent of illegal immigrants are commiting a criminal act against the the citizens of this
great United States.

When you use a percentage you misleade the readers of the article. Use a total number for each catgory inthe article, paints a more realist picture of the illegal immigration picture.

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