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High school sports: Transfer rule up for debate on kids' best interests

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  • Zabilde Lehi, UT
    Feb. 18, 2011 11:01 p.m.

    Lets keep it simple. Each school has a boundary. Kids that live within that boundary go to that school. If they want to participate in athletics they do so at the assigned school.

    No transfers without academic or behavioral reasons. If a school has a great coach, they'll be a power for a few years, but other schools have a more realistic chance to do well occasionally. No more recruiting powerhouses that pull all the good players because they are the powerhouses that pull all the good players etc. etc. etc...

    The current system is unfair, and making transfers easier would make it worse.

  • dsk
    Aug. 14, 2010 12:51 a.m.

    This isn't even an issue for those students who live in small towns throughout the state. Recuiting means these students must compete not just against schools that are larger than they are, they must also compete agaisnt a much larger recruiting base. Imagine being from a town like Delta and having to compete against teams that have brought in players from all over the Salt Lake Valley. In Hawaii if you transfer from one school to another you sit out one season. If the players are good enough the scouts will find them. One of the benefits of playing on a club team is supposed to be the exposure to college coaches at the bigger tournaments. Parents, coaches(club & High School) and players need to contact college coaches if that is what they want. Another issue is the safety of the players. If all the big stud football players go to one school could that lead to injuries for the smaller players left at home. People also need to be able to honestly look at themselves and decide if they are cut out for the next level.

  • bulldog72
    July 4, 2010 9:05 p.m.

    @Timp

    Your rationale is flawed. These players did not get recruited primarily because of the program that they played with, they were talented enough to play somewhere and ended up at one of these schools. I will agree that good program draw the best athletes, but please don't say that these boys would not have been recruited as heavily if they had played elsewhere (and in the case of at least FIli, Martinez, and Havili, at their home school). I think they would have done just fine getting attention.

  • Big Hapa
    July 4, 2010 6:32 p.m.

    Havili, not really, proved to be a major disappointment to his team when his number was called he was found to be ineligible to participate. Use another example there are many others. For that matter lets simply not put USC up as the "shinnig light on a hill" now here we find a squeeky clean program.

  • county mom
    July 4, 2010 5:51 p.m.

    You know other states have a league for just private schools and then for public schools. Why not in Utah? that way those who want to recruit and whatever can play eachother.

  • Timp
    July 4, 2010 10:50 a.m.

    And why is athletics any different than other talents. I know of a family who sent their kid to AF so they could be in their band. I know a family that sent their kid to one of the Orem programs because of some drama thing.

    In football, quality programs have better coaching, more competition in practice, more meaningful and pressure type games, coaches familiar w/ recruiting and who have contacts, an environment that breeds success. All of those factors can help maximize your sons talent and can potentially get them to the next level when they otherwise wouldn't.

    It's not saying you couldn't get a scholarship from your local school, where your head coach has a lifetime losing record, where you struggle to find enough kids to fill the roster, where kids have to go both ways, where you practice on a goat track - but it definitely helps for some -

  • Timp
    July 4, 2010 10:46 a.m.

    You guys are significantly downplaying the impact playing at a top quality program can have in some sports. Football is that way. If I had a kid whose goal (not mine, theirs) is to excel in their sport and to get a college scholarship then I would do everything I possible could to maximize his chances.

    Yes, you can be discovered by Utah or BYU if you play in Santaquin, but if you want to be recruited by the major national schools, then your chances are much higher at the select programs that have coaches w/ reputations, contacts ect.

    Look at who has been recruited and signed by national schools over the last few years:

    Cottonwood: Havili (USC), Martinez (USC), Fili (Oregon), Cate (Oklahoma St)
    Timpview: Suafilo (UCLA), Badger (Notre Dame)
    Bingham: Holt (national recruit, signed locally)
    Pleasant Grove: Lloyd (Stanford)

    Yes, if you are a freak of nature like Heimuli than you could play at Brighton and be a national recruit. But your chances are better at a power school.

  • Big Hapa
    July 3, 2010 12:59 a.m.

    The Kids need to be able to chose where they want to play sports. Also, the school district's are also free to choose rules that govern the students choice.

    Therefore, if there are rules in place to prevent unfair recruiting practises i.e. attracting away kids to other schools because they have a booster or some type of "sugar daddy" to bank roll there sports programs. Then Yes safe guards are called for.

    Leave the kids alone and let them play ball, without the adult cankering.

  • softball mom
    June 30, 2010 9:09 a.m.



    Utah10

    many professional coeahes (teachers) are great, some not... guess that's how it is in all sectors of life.

    good point, its the recuirting that is the bad deal, not looking for opprotuniities.

    the rub is those coaches that are getting ahead (winning record) by going outside theri school boundries and recruiting to win, not for the kids at all, but for themselves!

  • 4for4
    June 29, 2010 9:27 p.m.

    Some are good some arent but sometimes it just isnt a good fit for the kid. Hypothetical. I was starting qb as a sophomore. Had a great year and started receiving imterest from several colleges. Coach leaves between soph and jr year for another job. New coach runs the option. Told me i wont be qb because I am a pro style qb and not a running qb. Wants me to be TE in a no pass offense. should I be allowed to transfer or do I need to stay, lose any chance to play in college and learn a "life lesson".

  • eagle
    June 29, 2010 7:32 p.m.

    softball Mom: There ARE a lot of great paraprofessionals that do great work in our high school programs. I don't think I said there weren't these people. But I wanted to show that there are a lot of great coaches that ARE high school teachers. Many paraprofessional coaches ALSO do the same things you claim many high school teachers do as coaches. I don't really want to bash on anyone that will make the sacrifice of working with our young people and trust me $1500 is really nothing for the amount of time these coaches (teacher or paraprofessional) put in and the sacrifices they make. I see a lot of high school coaches, many cases teachers, that put back their entire coach's salary and then some to keep their programs going. The fact of the matter the coach's above have shaped history, shaped lives and I guess for "government" employees did a great job. Oh well...

    P.S. I'm sure that list could be much, much longer. Sorry to all the great coaches I left off the list, your past work is appreciated, your future work also appreciated.

  • utah10
    June 29, 2010 5:54 p.m.

    also to softball mom,

    You can be driven to succeed and still me a teacher. I played baseball in college and Im a driven teacher and coach. Yes my wife has to work because you can't live off a teachers salary but my family has more then 95% of the people out there. Also by teaching and coaching I make a difference in young kids lifes and I hope to be a good example to my kids and to others. You can't put a price tag on that.

  • utah10
    June 29, 2010 5:48 p.m.

    softball mom,

    You sound like a bitter parent who has a daughter you think didn't play because of politics. Maybe she wasn't good enough. Also as a coach I work my tail for my program. Almost everything I do revolves around the kids and making the program better. Helping kids get to colleges, working with the players each fall, winter, spring and summer. Updating our field to make it a place were the kids and community can be proud of. I like a lot of other coaches will go the extra mile. Not all coaches are the same.

  • softball mom
    June 29, 2010 10:29 a.m.


    Now make a list of professionals or successful business people who could have done a better job, driven people who wouldn't settle for a teachers wage and wanted more for themselves and their family and could now give back much more. Leaders in our community who have excelled in a given sport and actually played the game and a high level. Many on your list (of course the very best) fit these criteria but for sure most high school teachers, turned coaches don't fit. They are in it for the extra $1500 a year and some do a great deal of damage with their: my way or the highway mentality. Many have been around way too long and should be replaced but the system is structured for them to take care of each other and (they call it) support each other but in many cases it's a cover up and the other coaches know there are poor coaches working with these young athletes. In business, they promotes the good and demotes the bad, the education system needs to do the same. The education system is government, and the government doesn't work well, ever!

  • eagle
    June 28, 2010 9:12 p.m.

    I saw some bashing of high school coaches that were teachers. Let me give some names (and the list is far from complete) that were great coaches that were high school teachers. Many of these names should be familiar and many are/were great classroom teachers: The list:

    Kerry Anderson
    Wendy Bills
    Cal Bingham
    Wilbur Braithwaite
    Joan Burdett
    Dave Chavis
    Bett Clark
    Steve Cramblitt
    Rob Cuff
    Paul Dart
    Joe Wolfe Davis
    Craig Drury
    Roger Dupaix
    Eva Excell
    Dean Fowles
    Joel Gardner
    Barry Harrington
    Darold Henry
    Don Holtry
    Frank Houston
    Shauna Kay
    Mike LaHargoue
    Thom Larson
    Quincy Lewis
    Deanna Meyer
    Don Neff
    Dave Peck
    Gean Plaga
    Jim Porter
    Dennis Preece
    Brandon Ripplinger
    Mike Ripplinger
    Lori Salvo
    Steve Sanderson
    George Sluga
    Robert Steele
    Cindy Stuart
    Sonny Sudbury
    Davie Swensen
    Ted Taylor
    Bart Thompson
    Chad Van Orden
    Larry Wall
    Jay Welk
    Louis Wong

    Again, not a complete list by any stretch of the imagination. These are great coaches, championship coaches, many are legendary coaches.

  • utah10
    June 28, 2010 9:17 a.m.

    Bulldog,

    You are right on. Here is the issue. First the coaches who do recuit now will have people do their recuiting before they get to the high school level. This is the case for some schools. They are recuiting players from super league and little league football now. I coach and I have also had a number of coaches try to talk to my a few of my players saying they should come over and play at that school. I have heard of 2 coaches having players and their parents over for dinner to discuss what he would do for them.


    Some of the parents on here try to blame coaches for reasons why there son is not playing. As a coach I dont care if a parent built me the best field in the state Im still going to play the best players who help me win. Yes, sometimes coaches do play that game but most will not and its because you son isn't as good as you think.

    Parents always remember the good moments their kids have from little league on and they think what they did 10 years ago apply's to the present.

  • link
    June 27, 2010 3:29 p.m.

    re: love the game

    I believe what you say about LP they are a class act team and have played against those kids for 5 years before they hit High School and they are still playing well most of them. Kudos to your program when they hired their new Coach several years ago unfourtnately now we are living in the no progress years since your old Coach came our way!

  • Old Navy
    June 27, 2010 3:20 p.m.

    Get real everyone! The problem is not the students, the problem is the parents who keep pimping their kids out to a "better" program.

    They do this because they want to relive their high school glory days through their kid's athletic success.



  • mo-town
    June 27, 2010 2:14 p.m.

    Free my people> from poor programs that dont help athletes.

  • fbman
    June 27, 2010 12:44 p.m.

    Lets talk about "recruiting" for a second. This thread is full of people saying "you know who is recruiting", that seems a lot more like a bunch of rumors. Timpview for example is rumored to recruit. I can't speak for every single situation but I do know of cases where players parents talk to other players parents about going to Timpview to play. Does that constitute the coach recruiting? NO! Most every high school player knows coach Wong runs a great program and does more than most coaches to get as many of his kids scholarships at any college level as he can. But his response to kids wanting to come to play at Timpview? "Come talk to me when its approved, you will get an honest chance, I play the best kids"

    I am pretty sure that is almost the same response from the other "recruiting school coaches".

    Does not seem like recruiting to me.

    That being said, open all schools or close them all, thats the only answer.

  • BigCity
    June 27, 2010 11:48 a.m.

    Shadow. We all know who is recruiting and who is not. It's no secret. We don't have to play the name game. That is why the UHSAA is putting in this rule. It's a no brainer of why they are doing this. And to those coaches who do get no respect from other coaches as well. It's just like society you don't repsect those who don't treat you with respect or lie, cheat and back stabbed. That is what coaches are doing If you respest people like that then you have an issue. Like i said earlier in a comment These parents know what they are getting into when they enroll there kid a school. You should know who and what a head coach is like way before you child goes to high school. If not as a parent you are not doing your job. You should know the personality of the coach and what offenses he or she runs. I you don't you can find yourself in trouble. Parents have a job to do as well. Not just the coach. In closing this rule is needed for the cheater plain and simple

  • BigCity
    June 27, 2010 11:38 a.m.

    Sentry 52,
    You total contridict youself and I'm glad you find me hilarious I am quite funny if you knew me. You also said in your comment that I was right a lot which means you see my point of view which is great. I respect that. One thing I totally disagree with you about is that coaches are after trophies which in a way is correct. Every coach who coaches is after a trophy that is what competition is for. You don't coach just to watch a team play a game. You play to win. I get that. But a fair system is needed. I'm fine if a kid goes to a junior high where he or she knows that they will play for a particular high school. That is a rule and I respect that. But jumping from high school to high school because of a coach recruiting you for athletic reason is wrong. It shouldn't be aloud If these coaches were such great coaches they wouldn't need to do this. They would build there program from there young players in lower grade levels. Thats where it starts

  • bulldog72
    June 27, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    ...continued

    But parents do not seem to care about what happens to the school in these situations! That is the point that I am trying to make. Schools should represent their communities! I think that if you live in a community and something is not the way that you want it, then you have a responsibility to have a hand in making things better. If you do not wish to be a part of the solution, then you ought to move out of the community to another one that suits you better.
    But this is not what happens - what happens is the situation that I relayed in my previous messages about what is happening to these schools. And before too long no one worth a darn will want to come there and coach because they see that there is no support from the community.
    I am not saying, as you suggest, that kids need to 'settle', I am saying that they should stick around and be part of the solution instead of taking the easy way out and running to a situation where everything is already OK. We have lost our sense of community and school pride :(

  • bulldog72
    June 27, 2010 9:49 a.m.

    Shadow,

    What a shame that you are generalizing coaches based upon one bad experience. MOST coaches are good men who care deeply about their young men, but there are some bad ones. Here's the problem. If open enrollment is allowed to continue to lead to rampant recruiting, then envision this situation: School A has just completed another losing season and has fired their coach. A new coach comes in who is incredible, everything that you would want in a HS coach. He is also an honest man who will not go recruit athletes from other schools, which is a violation of the rules.
    Despite his best efforts, kids are kids and they get stars in their eyes about one program or another and keep leaving. Despite this man's best efforts, and as good a coach as he may be, it is hard to win without a decent number of athletes, and so losing continues and athletes continue to leave and nothing changes. The school becomes a reflection of the athletic program and is simply not a desirable place to attend. Sound fair? This is EXACTLY what is happening to schools.

  • Love the Game
    June 26, 2010 11:36 p.m.

    Seen it all:

    I believe you are wrong in that there are schools in 4A/5A who win with their own kids. I know for a fact the Lone Peak baseball team who won the 5A championship this past season has only kids from their boundary on their team.

    There are however additional kids who live in our boundary on other baseball teams in our region.

  • shadow
    June 26, 2010 9:15 p.m.

    Your right bulldog72 lets make our kids SETTLE for what is given to them, the majority of these kids aren't running away they are avoiding the politics that Coachs possibly like yourself are inserting into their programs. Its a shame that the competitiveness of all sports takes over in High School not only for the athlete but also for the parent who is donating money or trying to impress the coach who then ends up feeling guilty and doesn't want to hurt feelings of their "sugar parents". I agree with you that Coachs should work hard with what they have but a lot of coachs want it handed to them from the youth programs in their community, not only are they not committed to help with them they have no respect for the people who have dedicated YEARS of hard work to get them where they are but some coachs appreciate what was built for them, difference for our HS is that our Coach can't make them better they are at their best when they get to him and that has been a problem for 7 years when he was given a winning team and lost!

  • bulldog72
    June 26, 2010 5:20 p.m.

    Shadow,

    No, I do not work for Dell. I am a coach, and I have seen too many kids get used and too many parents with the wrong idea of what sports should be about, and too many coaches who would rather recruit talent instead of work hard with the kids they are given and teach them the right way, the right process, to do things and be successful.
    Lest you think that this is sour grapes, I have won numerous championships at different levels, and I have beaten those recruiting schools, but I do not feel that it is anywhere close to the spirit of high school athletics to allow recruiting to take place.
    Please stop giving these kids a false sense of entitlement by allowing them an easy way out whenever they don't like their situation. Life is not like this - when are we ever going to teach these kids to deal with a situation that might be a little tough? Why is our first answer to run away and find something better instead of overcoming adversity? I really hope that they don't approach problems in their marriage like this in the future!!!

  • shadow
    June 26, 2010 10:32 a.m.

    bulldog 72

    Your a prime example of a parent that cares about what others think of your decisions, let your kid go to the neighboring school so he can be happy and quit worring what others think of you. Im sorry you don't like working for Dell, but if you try for a position at apple, IBM, ect I am sure they will give you a fair chance to make their team as does every HS in the State and if they don't see any value for your services then I can't see why Dell took you in the first place unless they were struggling to hire for that position, that just tells me that someone else got an oppurtunity. Hypothetically speaking here I am sure you don't work for Dell.

  • sentry52
    June 26, 2010 10:28 a.m.

    utah10,

    Thats what I'm talking about helping the kids, and govern the coaches.

  • shadow
    June 26, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    utah10,

    Since you know of a school out their recruiting lets here there name and those who are doing it so we can punish them, oh thats right its all here say as usual, kids go to other schools because THEY want to coachs are not out recruiting them they may come in contact with them but I am positive they aren't offering them anything.

  • utah10
    June 26, 2010 7:45 a.m.

    Im from out of state. In most states it is play where you live and people in Utah act like it is a crime or you are taking away their freedom. I know what schools are doing the recruiting. Now they are talking to kids in middle school for football and baseball. Those are the schools that need to be stop. I heard one team is out now trying to recuit players for next years varsity team because they dont have near the talent they had the past 5 years. The need to stop coaches from working with the acadmey kids because it seems that some place themselves there to use it as a recruiting tool. Im all for giving a kid a chance to start over at a new school because maybe the kid will not play enough but those kids help teams with lesser talent to compete with the teams that recruit everyone.

  • sentry52
    June 25, 2010 10:47 p.m.

    BigCity,

    You are hilarious, and exactly the fear I’m talking about. You say there are consequences and you are correct, why would you want to pile on additional consequences to that of having to try and assimilate into a new school and make new friends and having to put up with parents and the community talking about you behind your back and saying you don’t belong. You are scared that all the good kids will go to one school and win a state title, but wouldn’t that just provided opportunities for kids that stay to step up and learn that position. So it would actually help some kids if one kid left. Your are right that that team might win state but those other teams will still win games and learn a lot for doing so. While everyone will know that if the one super school didn’t have all those move ins they wouldn’t have won state. If what you are after is trophies and medals then I could see how you would worry so much about kids moving around.

  • bulldog72
    June 25, 2010 10:39 p.m.

    Re: Shadow

    Your analogy is wrong. Yes, people are free to LEAVE jobs that they do not like, however they cannot simply choose to go wherever they want. Can you imagine this? This is the mentality that we have, that we expect that ALL schools should freely take on an athlete if they want to play there. Does that mean that if I do not like my job at Dell, then Apple, IBM, and HP all HAVE to take me? That would be a fairer analogy. Furthermore, this is not the adult world, this is high school, and I don't see why people have such a problem with having different rules than adult society. I mean, does your job make you check in with a note from a parent when you are late? Of course not, but I would bet that most people are in support of this system for HS students - different rules because it IS different.
    Whatever happened to people being grateful and making the most of the opportunities they do have? Instead, the message we are sending them is: demand and take all you can get cause everybody owes you! Sad

  • BigCity
    June 25, 2010 8:31 p.m.

    RE:Shadow
    Freedom you say. What's free in this counrty? Water We have to pay for that, Public education oh? We have to pay for that. Nothing is free. We all have to earn what we get in this society. Yes we roam where we want and make choices that we want but there are always consequences to our actions Their are rules for a reason. If things were free we would be in total choas And that is where we would be headed if you allow kids to transfer when and where they want. This is not a state like NEW York or Cali where there are great players everywhere. You on have a handful here. And if they all go to the same school, how is that fair. If this was college fine, but we are trying to build kids into good citizens of society and if you give them want they want they will achieve nothing which is a fact. and like someone said in one of the comments those schools who have succes have money so they gravite to money, no so much the coach i want to see the successful coaches win fair

  • sentry52
    June 25, 2010 4:31 p.m.

    Great example fbman, i think those that are worried about open enrollment are worried for semi selfish reasons. Worried about another program doing better than their own or a kid coming into the program and taking there kids spot on the team. They might also be coaches who worry that they would have to put in a lot more time than they where playing on in order to keep his kids from leaving or even compete with that other team. When i was in High School i actually moved three different times because my family actually moved, and i was a pretty big part of each team I was on. Moving from school to school was a hard and intimidating thing to do. Not everyone like me especially some of the kids whose spots i took. But i learned a lot for each program and i also made a lot of friends. It partially made me who i am today. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone but I did learn a lot, and I learned how to live outside my comfort zone. Let the kids decide were they want to go. The alternative sounds almost communist

  • fbman
    June 25, 2010 3:56 p.m.

    Recruiting? Why is it against the rules for sports but not for band, or musicals/plays, academics etc? The kids don't really need to be recruited, they all know who has the best football team, or band or cheer squad, or thespian group. Either allow open enrolement across the board, or closed all schools to boundaries, NO EXCEPTIONS!

    Adults - would any of you stay at a job where your boss did not like you, would not promote you or give you a chance? Why should we expect kids to do any different in their schools or classrooms? Kids drop or change classes all the time because of teacher conflicts and no one says a word... you don't think the same type of conflict can and does exist with coaches?

    Put yourself in the best position for success, on the field, stage or classroom!

  • shadow
    June 25, 2010 12:22 p.m.

    re: bulldog

    your comment.
    "When did we get this entitled idea that kids should be able to go wherever they want and we need to accommodate them?"

    I believe it was about the time our kids were born in this great Country its called freedom and I believe we are ALL entititled to it. Its a lot like a job if you don't like where you work because of your boss or those around you then you move on and find another job. Same with athletics if your Coach is clueless or the people you go to school with are not those you want to spend time with then guess what you can move on to another school for academic or athletical reasons. PLAY WHERE YOU WANT kids its your choice and it always will be that way just decide earlier now instead of after you hit High School! This is 4 years of a kids life that is important lets not punish them and waste 1 of those years because somebodys parents can't stand to see somebody they know go somewhere else because they are to worried what others might think of them, GROW UP!

  • nellies
    June 24, 2010 11:17 p.m.

    Well said bulldog72. How much time (i.e. taxpayer money) is our state government spending on this issue? Great work - Sen. Howard Stephenson, R-Draper.

  • bulldog72
    June 24, 2010 10:07 p.m.

    Wait, first you guys are saying that coaches need to be more committed, and then you say that paraprofessionals are the way to go? That is a complete contradiction - paraprofessionals don't coach as a profession (as opposed to teachers, whose coaching profession is often tied to their teaching). Paras have other jobs to worry about and, in all honesty, you get a lot more of the "this is just a hobby" mentality from paras than you do from on-staff coaches. Ridiculous...shows how little you really know about the inner workings of athletics.

    There is NOTHING wrong with play where you live. Just as families may move for other factors if they are important enough, they can move for athletics. When did we get this entitled idea that kids should be able to go wherever they want and we need to accommodate them? All we are doing is catering to an already over-pampered and selfish generation. PLAY WHERE YOU LIVE. Period. If you don't like the coach, move or don't play.
    Lastly, coaches are to blame for recruiting but not nearly as much as parents. Shopping your kid around is getting out of hand!

  • armchairQBonthehill
    June 24, 2010 9:18 p.m.

    Does anyone know if a kid can transfer without losing a year of eligibility if the school they are leaving does not make AYP (under No Child Left Behind). My understanding of "no child" is that if a school does not make adequate yearly progress, parents must be allowed to move their kids if they choose. There are several high schools who are not making AYP now so parents ought to be able to transfer their kids withou any strings. Can someome clarify?

  • Swimmer
    June 24, 2010 5:57 p.m.

    Give any student one free transfer anytime after they enter high school. Then hold them to that decision. Not a perfect solution but better than what they do now.

    My child competed for the high school where his club coach coached. I have no regrets nor do I make any apologies to his geographical school. His club coach knew how to coach, the other one did not. He will now compete in college with an athletic scholarship and that was our goal.

    Not everyone gets an athletic scholarship and not everyone gets an academic scholarship. But if your child has the athletic ability to get a college scholarship with good coaching I see nothing wrong with going where the best coach is, especially when your geographic school has poor coaching.

    To me it is the same as seeking out a high school with strong academics to give your child the best chance to obtain an academic scholarship. There is no punishment for academic transfers even though the goal of a scholarship is the same. The value of the athletic scholarship over the four years is well worth it.

  • Seen It All
    June 24, 2010 5:02 p.m.

    First, Money talks. The "top" programs have strong boosters. Look at their uniforms or the tournaments they go to.
    Second, We are only talking about the "top" players. Weak players don't transfer. When a good player comes to your team and you are the bottom player, you get cut. How is that "fair" to them?
    Third, which comes first, a great coach or great players? A well known coach in our state said, "...that's why the good players gravitate to the better programs." Can you say, transfer for athletic reasons?
    Fourth, has there been a championship team in 4A or 5A that had no transferred athletes? Probably not.
    Fifth, if this new law passes, the dynasties will get stronger and the weak teams weaker. Go look at eh faces of a weak team that just got crushed by one of the powerhouses. Fair?

  • factcheck
    June 24, 2010 4:47 p.m.

    RE: shadow | 11:12 a.m. June 24, 2010

    "..yet they can't seem to win a Championship little lone make it to the championship game in HS"

    What is 'little lone'? LOL. Did you mean let alone?

    No worries, you make a valid point.

  • Sportsdude
    June 24, 2010 4:32 p.m.

    I say let the student go where they want to go. The happier the student is the better he/she will do (hopefully) in their studies. If he/she wants to go to a dominant program and think they can hang - let them go there. I believe that if the athletic program your student/athlete wants to be a part of is successful and makes your son or daughter learn how to be a competitor in sports and life - good for them.

  • BigCity
    June 24, 2010 3:00 p.m.

    Lastly Paraprofessionals is a bad idea. Paraprofessionals are only hired cuz they bring money to the program, not cuz they are great coaches. Some are and most aren't. For instance another example. Club and AAU teams charge kids 3-5 grand to play a game that they love. Give me a break when I played AAU where I'm from I didn't pay a dime. Thank you for paying the coaches flight and hotel and putting money in their pocket. NOt only that didn't they promise your child a scholarship. Where is it. I seen this happen to players as well. So be smart in what you wish for. You have no idea what animal u will bring out if you let every coach out there recruit players and allow them to transfer when ever they want. competition will change not on the court but off and you will have a lot of problems. So good luck. It will get ugly and alot people in this state will be losing their coaching cuz people with be throwing blows at one another. So if thats what you want to see. GO for it. And I'm through

  • BigCity
    June 24, 2010 2:52 p.m.

    I know players that have gone to schools to because coaches have recruited them and then cut them. That is sad. Is that right. And its during there junior and seniors years. WOW They knew the coach was doing it before they got they knew the coach. Then a coach that doesn't do this and has bad seasons is a bad coach give me a break. Most coaches coach because they love the game, the coaches that are successful love the game but the spotlight for them selves not there kids. SO they will break evry rule possible to be on top. A perfect comment came from a player I know from a top program coach "You need to come to my school because I have the most connections in the state" And then he cut the kid. WOW. Don't tell me that is ok and don't tell me its the coaches fault. Parents do blame the coach when your kid is not succesful. Tell your kid the put in the time to be the best player transfering is not going to solve the problem of you kid not be the best player. There work etic will

  • BigCity
    June 24, 2010 2:26 p.m.

    Ok folks. This is very dsiturbing to see people in our society know what is right and still go beyond their morals and believe that recruiting is ok especially in this state. You know if the school you are going to has a good or bad coach. Those schools that are succesful recruit period. Many recruit and then cut them. Then then have to sit out a year. I know players that have been through this. And all they had to do was play where they live. So they suffer. When a person chooses a school they know why they are going there for. They know when they are in the 8th or 9th grade where they want to go. Don't cry about it when something doesn't go your way and you don't get what you want. Then you blame it on the coach. Have some class. If your kid is that good he or she will get spotted by schools. You don't have to go to Lone Peak or Timpview to be a successful athlete. It takes breaking the rules to be succesful now adays thats hows these programs got where they are

  • plyxply
    June 24, 2010 2:24 p.m.

    sentry, the problem is that nobody who has a kid that is being recruited will go on record against the coaches because in many cases they are friends from other sports, or don't want the negative publicity for their kid. In some cases the parents love all of the attention their kids are getting and don't want it to end. It's obvious Jordan and CW recruit heavily, but every time someone pushes the issue the coaches somehow get out of it without any reprecussion.
    Transferring for sports should not be allowed, period. It will encourage the less ethical coaches who already illegally recruit to go further than they already are, and will force all coaches to recruit to stay or be competitive. Sports should not be the reason someone attends high school.

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 2:11 p.m.

    tru dat 4for4

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 2:10 p.m.

    plyxply,

    if the coaches are the ones that are watch rather than the kids i guarantee recruiting go's way down. So if a kid, say in after his Jr year, see's he doesn't have a chance at starting because of politics, you think he should have to stick it out and put up with the politics that are high school athletics at most school. If any witnesses come forth that the player was recruited by that coach, investigate and penalize the coach, but if we really have the best interest of the kids in mind we are going to hold kids back because we are afraid we might lose a game or two.

  • ksa
    June 24, 2010 1:36 p.m.

    Let's create more rules and have meetings about the rules send out memo's to announce the meeting about the new rules, ban Sports, bring back the Accordian, Get real the kids have more rules now, than any era ahead of them. Enough is Enough and we need to keep any association out of our supposed free education system. It is obvious that Sports are more important than education or this would not be such a hot topic, and since that is the case than a kid should be able to go to the best program with the best program, sports are the most important thing, right!!!

  • Zoro
    June 24, 2010 12:43 p.m.

    keep the legislature out of it. they should be focusing on gov't issues. The UHSAA is in touch with what's happening in high school athletics. this Rep. Stephensen needs to butt out. He must have a kid who wants to transfer without any penalty. this can not be a free for all.

  • just sayin'
    June 24, 2010 12:41 p.m.

    4for4 is spot on!

  • 4for4
    June 24, 2010 12:28 p.m.

    Remember this is about the kids. The kids decide to transfer for reasons that make them happy. Aren't there already enough unhappy kids. Why do you think you or the UHSAA is a better judge of what makes a kid happy? Why hold a kid hostage to a bad program or a bad coach just because of where they live? Let them go to school and play wherever they want. If a kid can get a college scholarship at one school but can’t at another shouldn’t we praise that coaching staff that could facilitate that? Why don’t we cry foul when our coaching staff can’t do what is necessary to prepare our students for college? We wouldn’t allow a math teacher to negatively affect our child and keep them from going to college, why do we get so upset and defend coaches who do the same thing? Why can’t HS athletics be chosen by a student to prepare them for their future? Why don’t we focus on getting better coaches who will make the kids want to stay instead of focusing on rules that force kids to play for bad coaches?

  • The Big One
    June 24, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    "Yes," Stallings said. "I think they could. As long as there weren't recruiting efforts." Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha, Stallings you should try for Michael Scott's job on the Office, that sounds like something he would say.
    How many players on Cottonwoods baseball team are from the school's area?

  • nomo
    June 24, 2010 11:50 a.m.

    So Ironic Davis with the most students in the state is crying the loudest about students tranfering to other schools.

  • nomo
    June 24, 2010 11:45 a.m.

    It's a free country a player should be able to attend any school he wants and play for any coach he wants. Just like any other student that might want to go to a better school for academics you don't see anyone stopping that. where is the public outcry when a kid wnats to transfer so he can just go to better school and not play sports. You people that want to keep kids from transfering are afraid, your afraid the momopoly may be over. Case in point, Davis guy when you beat Cottonwood for the state football championship a few years ago you had over 1000 more students that C-wood, talk about unfair.. yet your screaming if one kid tranfers to another school..How hypicritical can you be.

  • know-it-all
    June 24, 2010 11:45 a.m.

    re; davis co man

    Paraprofessionals.... kudos

    Eliminate the waste, hire the best.

  • softball mom
    June 24, 2010 11:41 a.m.

    to: davis-count-man

    Paraprofessionals sound like the way to go.. Better coaches, less hassle and get rid of them if they cheat. They aren't in it for the money or glory. The student athlete being exposed to successful business people may motivate them to work harder and know they can be successful without being a professional athletic. These coaches can be the leaders in our community, not benefactors of the tax payers. Maybe we could even find some that would not want the $2,000 a year; really successful people donate that amount all the time, instead of taking it. WIN-WIN?

  • What's up
    June 24, 2010 11:23 a.m.


    to davis-county man

    great idea, plus they aren't union and can be let go if they aren't doing the job!!! year to year contract, not hanging on for 10-20 years of the same old stuff.

  • plyxply
    June 24, 2010 11:21 a.m.

    Sentry I disagree. What this creates is a situation where coaches will have to recruit kids on a yearly basis, and any time you begin recruiting things that aren't allowed will happen, worse than they currently are.
    Howard Stephenson has just lost a ton of votes in Draper, this would be a major mistake and the legislature has no business trying to regulate this.
    CW and Jordan already recruit kids illegally by promising them starting positions on teams and financial help in some cases. Then once the kids enroll at their school they decide if the kid is good enough to play for them, and often kids don't get what they were promised. It's a broken system already but at least the UHSAA is trying to regulate it and do what they can.
    If kids want to transfer for academic reasons let them, but athletics should not be a reason to transfer.

  • Expert (in training)
    June 24, 2010 11:18 a.m.


    sentry52

    That's exactly what I'm referring to, the recruiting. Having 5-7 players on a school roster that do not live in that school boundary and they all play together on a summer team together.

  • shadow
    June 24, 2010 11:12 a.m.

    I agree with sentry52, I believe that if Schools had dedicated Coachs that spent time in the off season working with their program not just the kids on the HS team but the youth in their community it would pay off as it has for teams like Cottonwood, Lone Peak Spanish Fork, Richfield, to name a few that the HS coaches are truly commited to building year round not just spring and summer time! I have watched teams like Park City, Wasatch, Brighton, Alta, to name a few again in Baseball as youth compete in their respective leagues they are associated with but yet they can't seem to win a Championship little lone make it to the championship game in HS. They do ok in HS they just never get better when they hit HS thats a coaching issue and no wonder why kids transfer to Cottonwood, Bingham, and Juan Diego they have GREAT Coachs who are truley dedicated!!

  • Davis-county-man
    June 24, 2010 11:10 a.m.


    to: sentry52
    Good comments, how about more paraprofessionals? Coaches from outside the education system, one that aren't in for the money but are from the private sector, very successful and can afford to put in the time to improve the program. They are trying to get ahead in the education field; they can be very knowledgeable in a given sport and can give back. They see these kids after school and haven't had to put up with them all day so they are refreshed and in every community there are some great past athletic that have played the game and can contribute. California does this a lot, they don't think you have to be a school teacher in order to be a coach, they just find the very best qualified person for the job, not a teacher looking to make $2,000 extra a year for the 8 weeks he or she works. Under job search, "CHEATERS NEED NOT APPLY".

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 11:02 a.m.

    its hard to create neighborhood rivalries when one schools administration actually cares about athletics, and the other doesn't, they care about say, drama or the arts, which there is nothing wrong with that. But there is no rivalry when both schools aren't invested.

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 10:59 a.m.

    Expert,

    What are you saying is cheating? If you are saying recruiting is cheating, then what is your definition of recruiting? If you are getting kids to come to your program so that you can when a state title, then i agree, the is weak bush league tricks that in the end will destroy your program and your honor. On the other hand if you are just trying to provide a kid an opportunity that he wouldn't have had because of politics at anther school, or because of a lazy coach, then it might still be against the rules according to the UHSAA, but I don't believe they are the end all say all when it comes to morality.

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 10:45 a.m.

    the parity wont come from putting kids down and keeping them from a far shake. The parity will come from coaches caring about there programs and building them year around. The truth is that there aren't to many coaches that are willing to sacrifice there time. they just want to work during the season and that it. You can't really blame them though because the average head coach will only make 2000 for the whole season, why would they want to put in a lot of time outside of the season. But you do have those diehard coaches that are willing to put in the time so their kids can be the best. Why should we keep kids from a coach that is that dedicated. maybe that would force other coaches to step up and start putting in the time. Or force principals to hirer coaches that care.

  • tt2sweet
    June 24, 2010 10:41 a.m.

    play where you live and lets create some neighborhood rivalries again. Wait that's not fair.

  • Expert (in training)
    June 24, 2010 10:40 a.m.


    Cheating your way through life and teaching the kids to do the same will come back and haunt you. No morals, no conscience, win at all cost and you've created a loser. Some coaches are so stupid to think others view them as great coaches because they win, give me a break, people talk, they see though this and the coaches are laughed at behind their backs. Every involved parent in the stand knows who is fairly on the team and who has been recruited. The sad thing about this is the student who lost his position, or cut from the team because of the illegal transfer. Put yourself in their position or their parent's shoes and see how proud you are of yourself. You think repentances can take care of it? I hope Karma take care of it first! Karma, that force out there that doesn't allow people to take advantage of others without paying a dear price for it.

  • get'er done
    June 24, 2010 10:18 a.m.


    Hey, these coaches are smart enough not to talk to the athletics, they have their little gofers, the summer comp coaches, the AAU coaches, the little league football coaches who will run interference for them. These gofers are their recruiters; they the coaches are obligated to these parents and their kids. When you see 4-6 players transferring to one school from a number of different schools who all play on the same summer or fall team you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see how corrupt and dishonest these people are. Without rules, guidelines, and oversight, there is no parity. The rich get richer and the poor schools with weaker programs just die.

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 9:56 a.m.

    If the UHSAA really wanted to govern recruiting better they would leave the kids alone, and let them pick which high school they wanted to go to each year if that be the case. Then they would focus on the Coaches and make the penalty so high that no Coach would want to even consider opening his mouth to joke about the idea. If witnesses give testimony that a Coach had any knowledge of a transfer being recruited then that Coach and his program are subject to penalty.

  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 9:52 a.m.

    The fact is a kid shouldn’t be forced to go to a school and play for a team just because they live in those boundaries. Van Wagner stated that there aren’t any leagues that allow transfers with out penalties, but there aren’t any colleges that force you to go where you live. Open enrollment is a good thing and I’m glad they allow a kid to start their eligibility wherever the want to, but most families really don’t know what they’re getting into, in a high school when they are in Jr. High. So open enrollment in this case would only help someone if they did have a good understanding of the program at the High School they want to attend, but the only way they would know that is if there was recruiting going on.


  • sentry52
    June 24, 2010 9:51 a.m.

    I do Coach, and if a kid didn’t want to play for me, didn’t trust me, why would I want him to play for me. Also I would have to be a power hungry, vindictive person to want to keep a kid for playing somewhere else just because he didn’t want to play for me. There are so many issues that go into whether a kid would want to transfer or not, and there are so many politics involved in High School athletics whether people want to admit it or not, maybe the kid just isn’t getting his far look just cause someone else’s parents have a different name. I support the legislator’s idea. I don’t think they should be able to transfer with in the school year to play in different sports at different high schools, but if a kid wants to attend a different high school every year, how does that hurt us. Have I lost sporting events to teams that have recruited players? Yes I have. Does that make me angry? No, that would only make me angry if I was a very immature person.

  • Davis-county-man
    June 24, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    To: 123456

    Here is an example, Roy high softball team had 6 players living outside their school boundaries and they played for the state title and if this becomes law it'll happen across the board. These high school coaches want to be viewed as real coaches and not just teachers coaching 8 weeks a year and will do anything they can to win a title. The parents think there is a scholarship out there for every athletic, at least for their kid. Get real, work on a scholastic scholarship, something you can actually use after you've graduated. Those scholarships aren't full rides and may pay for books, part room and board, or tuition but not all. Let's show the parents the real statistics on how many really get a college education via athletic scholarships and maybe they'll work harder in the classroom.

  • mammalou
    June 24, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    To Rational, while I agree with you that academics are where it's at.....as a mother of three children that participate(d) in athletics, please remember that for a great number of these students, sports are what encourage them to keep their studies up. For my boy's especially, they took the steps necessary to complete all their assignements and keep their grades up because they wanted to make sure that they remained eligible, for themself and the team. Also, I think some of the most important lessons they learned during their schooling happened on the field, mat or baseball diamond. Real life lessons. Not sure about changing schools since it is not possible in our area, but I do know that some undervalue the human lessons learned from athletics.

  • 123456
    June 24, 2010 8:55 a.m.

    Mark Van Wagoner states:

    "You're creating a mess that no other state in the union has," he said. "This bill ruins competition and makes it unfair for 99 percent of the students engaged in competition."

    That is a ridiculous comment. The UHSAA deals with this issue a lot because they govern ALL of the High Schools in the state and they are tired of spending so much time on this one issue. The reality of this is that if you look at each individual school, transfers happen few and far between. And when they do, often times the school they are leaving is happy to see them go because the kid or their parents or both have caused the school and coaches nothing but grief. I would like to see data that would support the comment above. How many of these transfers truly affect either school (leaving or joining) in a significant way - such as contributing to a state championship? Very rarely I would say. This rule is going to cause schools and coaches more unintended consequences such as disgruntled kids and parents being forced to stay in unhealthy athletic situations. I applaud the state legislature.

  • DC Fan
    June 24, 2010 8:26 a.m.

    What a joke, keep the politicians out of it... every time the government step in the public suffers. Play a different sport at different schools, no one but a government employee could come up with something so screwed up. Teach the next generations there are no rules, anything goes, do anything, say anything and move on. These poor students when the get into the real world and find out they can't always get their own way and will become failures. Sen. Howard Stephenson, R-Draper should be impeached! Not playing with a full deck.

  • Rational
    June 24, 2010 12:48 a.m.

    PLEASE, abide by the UHSAA recommendation. Too many kids are too focused on sports. (I played in college.)

    Very few will play sports in college, and if they spent half their training time studying, they MIGHT get an academic scholarship -- and have a career someday.