PLEASE, abide by the UHSAA recommendation. Too many kids are too focused on
sports. (I played in college.)Very few will play sports in college,
and if they spent half their training time studying, they MIGHT get an academic
scholarship -- and have a career someday.
What a joke, keep the politicians out of it... every time the government step in
the public suffers. Play a different sport at different schools, no one but a
government employee could come up with something so screwed up. Teach the next
generations there are no rules, anything goes, do anything, say anything and
move on. These poor students when the get into the real world and find out they
can't always get their own way and will become failures. Sen. Howard Stephenson,
R-Draper should be impeached! Not playing with a full deck.
Mark Van Wagoner states:"You're creating a mess that no other state
in the union has," he said. "This bill ruins competition and makes it unfair for
99 percent of the students engaged in competition."That is a
ridiculous comment. The UHSAA deals with this issue a lot because they govern
ALL of the High Schools in the state and they are tired of spending so much time
on this one issue. The reality of this is that if you look at each individual
school, transfers happen few and far between. And when they do, often times the
school they are leaving is happy to see them go because the kid or their parents
or both have caused the school and coaches nothing but grief. I would like to
see data that would support the comment above. How many of these transfers
truly affect either school (leaving or joining) in a significant way - such as
contributing to a state championship? Very rarely I would say. This rule is
going to cause schools and coaches more unintended consequences such as
disgruntled kids and parents being forced to stay in unhealthy athletic
situations. I applaud the state legislature.
To Rational, while I agree with you that academics are where it's at.....as a
mother of three children that participate(d) in athletics, please remember that
for a great number of these students, sports are what encourage them to keep
their studies up. For my boy's especially, they took the steps necessary to
complete all their assignements and keep their grades up because they wanted to
make sure that they remained eligible, for themself and the team. Also, I think
some of the most important lessons they learned during their schooling happened
on the field, mat or baseball diamond. Real life lessons. Not sure about
changing schools since it is not possible in our area, but I do know that some
undervalue the human lessons learned from athletics.
To: 123456Here is an example, Roy high softball team had 6 players
living outside their school boundaries and they played for the state title and
if this becomes law it'll happen across the board. These high school coaches
want to be viewed as real coaches and not just teachers coaching 8 weeks a year
and will do anything they can to win a title. The parents think there is a
scholarship out there for every athletic, at least for their kid. Get real, work
on a scholastic scholarship, something you can actually use after you've
graduated. Those scholarships aren't full rides and may pay for books, part
room and board, or tuition but not all. Let's show the parents the real
statistics on how many really get a college education via athletic scholarships
and maybe they'll work harder in the classroom.
I do Coach, and if a kid didn’t want to play for me, didn’t trust
me, why would I want him to play for me. Also I would have to be a power hungry,
vindictive person to want to keep a kid for playing somewhere else just because
he didn’t want to play for me. There are so many issues that go into
whether a kid would want to transfer or not, and there are so many politics
involved in High School athletics whether people want to admit it or not, maybe
the kid just isn’t getting his far look just cause someone else’s
parents have a different name. I support the legislator’s idea. I
don’t think they should be able to transfer with in the school year to
play in different sports at different high schools, but if a kid wants to attend
a different high school every year, how does that hurt us. Have I lost sporting
events to teams that have recruited players? Yes I have. Does that make me
angry? No, that would only make me angry if I was a very immature person.
The fact is a kid shouldn’t be forced to go to a school and play for a
team just because they live in those boundaries. Van Wagner stated that there
aren’t any leagues that allow transfers with out penalties, but there
aren’t any colleges that force you to go where you live. Open enrollment
is a good thing and I’m glad they allow a kid to start their eligibility
wherever the want to, but most families really don’t know what
they’re getting into, in a high school when they are in Jr. High. So open
enrollment in this case would only help someone if they did have a good
understanding of the program at the High School they want to attend, but the
only way they would know that is if there was recruiting going on.
If the UHSAA really wanted to govern recruiting better they would leave the kids
alone, and let them pick which high school they wanted to go to each year if
that be the case. Then they would focus on the Coaches and make the penalty so
high that no Coach would want to even consider opening his mouth to joke about
the idea. If witnesses give testimony that a Coach had any knowledge of a
transfer being recruited then that Coach and his program are subject to penalty.
Hey, these coaches are smart enough not to talk to the athletics, they
have their little gofers, the summer comp coaches, the AAU coaches, the little
league football coaches who will run interference for them. These gofers are
their recruiters; they the coaches are obligated to these parents and their
kids. When you see 4-6 players transferring to one school from a number of
different schools who all play on the same summer or fall team you don’t
have to be a rocket scientist to see how corrupt and dishonest these people are.
Without rules, guidelines, and oversight, there is no parity. The rich get
richer and the poor schools with weaker programs just die.
Cheating your way through life and teaching the kids to do the same will
come back and haunt you. No morals, no conscience, win at all cost and you've
created a loser. Some coaches are so stupid to think others view them as great
coaches because they win, give me a break, people talk, they see though this and
the coaches are laughed at behind their backs. Every involved parent in the
stand knows who is fairly on the team and who has been recruited. The sad thing
about this is the student who lost his position, or cut from the team because of
the illegal transfer. Put yourself in their position or their parent's shoes
and see how proud you are of yourself. You think repentances can take care of
it? I hope Karma take care of it first! Karma, that force out there that doesn't
allow people to take advantage of others without paying a dear price for it.
play where you live and lets create some neighborhood rivalries again. Wait
that's not fair.
the parity wont come from putting kids down and keeping them from a far shake.
The parity will come from coaches caring about there programs and building them
year around. The truth is that there aren't to many coaches that are willing to
sacrifice there time. they just want to work during the season and that it. You
can't really blame them though because the average head coach will only make
2000 for the whole season, why would they want to put in a lot of time outside
of the season. But you do have those diehard coaches that are willing to put in
the time so their kids can be the best. Why should we keep kids from a coach
that is that dedicated. maybe that would force other coaches to step up and
start putting in the time. Or force principals to hirer coaches that care.
Expert,What are you saying is cheating? If you are saying recruiting
is cheating, then what is your definition of recruiting? If you are getting kids
to come to your program so that you can when a state title, then i agree, the is
weak bush league tricks that in the end will destroy your program and your
honor. On the other hand if you are just trying to provide a kid an opportunity
that he wouldn't have had because of politics at anther school, or because of a
lazy coach, then it might still be against the rules according to the UHSAA, but
I don't believe they are the end all say all when it comes to morality.
its hard to create neighborhood rivalries when one schools administration
actually cares about athletics, and the other doesn't, they care about say,
drama or the arts, which there is nothing wrong with that. But there is no
rivalry when both schools aren't invested.
to: sentry52Good comments, how about more paraprofessionals? Coaches
from outside the education system, one that aren't in for the money but are from
the private sector, very successful and can afford to put in the time to improve
the program. They are trying to get ahead in the education field; they can be
very knowledgeable in a given sport and can give back. They see these kids after
school and haven't had to put up with them all day so they are refreshed and in
every community there are some great past athletic that have played the game and
can contribute. California does this a lot, they don't think you have to be a
school teacher in order to be a coach, they just find the very best qualified
person for the job, not a teacher looking to make $2,000 extra a year for the 8
weeks he or she works. Under job search, "CHEATERS NEED NOT APPLY".
I agree with sentry52, I believe that if Schools had dedicated Coachs that spent
time in the off season working with their program not just the kids on the HS
team but the youth in their community it would pay off as it has for teams like
Cottonwood, Lone Peak Spanish Fork, Richfield, to name a few that the HS coaches
are truly commited to building year round not just spring and summer time! I
have watched teams like Park City, Wasatch, Brighton, Alta, to name a few again
in Baseball as youth compete in their respective leagues they are associated
with but yet they can't seem to win a Championship little lone make it to the
championship game in HS. They do ok in HS they just never get better when they
hit HS thats a coaching issue and no wonder why kids transfer to Cottonwood,
Bingham, and Juan Diego they have GREAT Coachs who are truley dedicated!!
sentry52That's exactly what I'm referring to, the recruiting.
Having 5-7 players on a school roster that do not live in that school boundary
and they all play together on a summer team together.
Sentry I disagree. What this creates is a situation where coaches will have to
recruit kids on a yearly basis, and any time you begin recruiting things that
aren't allowed will happen, worse than they currently are. Howard
Stephenson has just lost a ton of votes in Draper, this would be a major mistake
and the legislature has no business trying to regulate this. CW and
Jordan already recruit kids illegally by promising them starting positions on
teams and financial help in some cases. Then once the kids enroll at their
school they decide if the kid is good enough to play for them, and often kids
don't get what they were promised. It's a broken system already but at least
the UHSAA is trying to regulate it and do what they can. If kids want to
transfer for academic reasons let them, but athletics should not be a reason to
to davis-county mangreat idea, plus they aren't union and can
be let go if they aren't doing the job!!! year to year contract, not hanging on
for 10-20 years of the same old stuff.
to: davis-count-manParaprofessionals sound like the way to go..
Better coaches, less hassle and get rid of them if they cheat. They aren't in it
for the money or glory. The student athlete being exposed to successful business
people may motivate them to work harder and know they can be successful without
being a professional athletic. These coaches can be the leaders in our
community, not benefactors of the tax payers. Maybe we could even find some
that would not want the $2,000 a year; really successful people donate that
amount all the time, instead of taking it. WIN-WIN?
re; davis co manParaprofessionals.... kudosEliminate the
waste, hire the best.
It's a free country a player should be able to attend any school he wants and
play for any coach he wants. Just like any other student that might want to go
to a better school for academics you don't see anyone stopping that. where is
the public outcry when a kid wnats to transfer so he can just go to better
school and not play sports. You people that want to keep kids from transfering
are afraid, your afraid the momopoly may be over. Case in point, Davis guy when
you beat Cottonwood for the state football championship a few years ago you had
over 1000 more students that C-wood, talk about unfair.. yet your screaming if
one kid tranfers to another school..How hypicritical can you be.
So Ironic Davis with the most students in the state is crying the loudest about
students tranfering to other schools.
"Yes," Stallings said. "I think they could. As long as there weren't recruiting
efforts." Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha, Stallings you should try for Michael Scott's job on
the Office, that sounds like something he would say.How many players on
Cottonwoods baseball team are from the school's area?
Remember this is about the kids. The kids decide to transfer for reasons that
make them happy. Aren't there already enough unhappy kids. Why do you think
you or the UHSAA is a better judge of what makes a kid happy? Why hold a kid
hostage to a bad program or a bad coach just because of where they live? Let
them go to school and play wherever they want. If a kid can get a college
scholarship at one school but can’t at another shouldn’t we praise
that coaching staff that could facilitate that? Why don’t we cry foul
when our coaching staff can’t do what is necessary to prepare our students
for college? We wouldn’t allow a math teacher to negatively affect our
child and keep them from going to college, why do we get so upset and defend
coaches who do the same thing? Why can’t HS athletics be chosen by a
student to prepare them for their future? Why don’t we focus on getting
better coaches who will make the kids want to stay instead of focusing on rules
that force kids to play for bad coaches?
4for4 is spot on!
keep the legislature out of it. they should be focusing on gov't issues. The
UHSAA is in touch with what's happening in high school athletics. this Rep.
Stephensen needs to butt out. He must have a kid who wants to transfer without
any penalty. this can not be a free for all.
Let's create more rules and have meetings about the rules send out memo's to
announce the meeting about the new rules, ban Sports, bring back the Accordian,
Get real the kids have more rules now, than any era ahead of them. Enough is
Enough and we need to keep any association out of our supposed free education
system. It is obvious that Sports are more important than education or this
would not be such a hot topic, and since that is the case than a kid should be
able to go to the best program with the best program, sports are the most
important thing, right!!!
plyxply,if the coaches are the ones that are watch rather than the
kids i guarantee recruiting go's way down. So if a kid, say in after his Jr
year, see's he doesn't have a chance at starting because of politics, you think
he should have to stick it out and put up with the politics that are high school
athletics at most school. If any witnesses come forth that the player was
recruited by that coach, investigate and penalize the coach, but if we really
have the best interest of the kids in mind we are going to hold kids back
because we are afraid we might lose a game or two.
tru dat 4for4
sentry, the problem is that nobody who has a kid that is being recruited will go
on record against the coaches because in many cases they are friends from other
sports, or don't want the negative publicity for their kid. In some cases the
parents love all of the attention their kids are getting and don't want it to
end. It's obvious Jordan and CW recruit heavily, but every time someone pushes
the issue the coaches somehow get out of it without any reprecussion.Transferring for sports should not be allowed, period. It will encourage the
less ethical coaches who already illegally recruit to go further than they
already are, and will force all coaches to recruit to stay or be competitive.
Sports should not be the reason someone attends high school.
Ok folks. This is very dsiturbing to see people in our society know what is
right and still go beyond their morals and believe that recruiting is ok
especially in this state. You know if the school you are going to has a good or
bad coach. Those schools that are succesful recruit period. Many recruit and
then cut them. Then then have to sit out a year. I know players that have been
through this. And all they had to do was play where they live. So they suffer.
When a person chooses a school they know why they are going there for. They
know when they are in the 8th or 9th grade where they want to go. Don't cry
about it when something doesn't go your way and you don't get what you want.
Then you blame it on the coach. Have some class. If your kid is that good he
or she will get spotted by schools. You don't have to go to Lone Peak or
Timpview to be a successful athlete. It takes breaking the rules to be
succesful now adays thats hows these programs got where they are
I know players that have gone to schools to because coaches have recruited them
and then cut them. That is sad. Is that right. And its during there junior
and seniors years. WOW They knew the coach was doing it before they got they
knew the coach. Then a coach that doesn't do this and has bad seasons is a bad
coach give me a break. Most coaches coach because they love the game, the
coaches that are successful love the game but the spotlight for them selves not
there kids. SO they will break evry rule possible to be on top. A perfect
comment came from a player I know from a top program coach "You need to come to
my school because I have the most connections in the state" And then he cut the
kid. WOW. Don't tell me that is ok and don't tell me its the coaches fault.
Parents do blame the coach when your kid is not succesful. Tell your kid the
put in the time to be the best player transfering is not going to solve the
problem of you kid not be the best player. There work etic will
Lastly Paraprofessionals is a bad idea. Paraprofessionals are only hired cuz
they bring money to the program, not cuz they are great coaches. Some are and
most aren't. For instance another example. Club and AAU teams charge kids 3-5
grand to play a game that they love. Give me a break when I played AAU where
I'm from I didn't pay a dime. Thank you for paying the coaches flight and hotel
and putting money in their pocket. NOt only that didn't they promise your child
a scholarship. Where is it. I seen this happen to players as well. So be
smart in what you wish for. You have no idea what animal u will bring out if
you let every coach out there recruit players and allow them to transfer when
ever they want. competition will change not on the court but off and you will
have a lot of problems. So good luck. It will get ugly and alot people in this
state will be losing their coaching cuz people with be throwing blows at one
another. So if thats what you want to see. GO for it. And I'm through
I say let the student go where they want to go. The happier the student is the
better he/she will do (hopefully) in their studies. If he/she wants to go to a
dominant program and think they can hang - let them go there. I believe that if
the athletic program your student/athlete wants to be a part of is successful
and makes your son or daughter learn how to be a competitor in sports and life -
good for them.
RE: shadow | 11:12 a.m. June 24, 2010 "..yet they can't seem to win
a Championship little lone make it to the championship game in HS"What is 'little lone'? LOL. Did you mean let alone?No worries, you
make a valid point.
First, Money talks. The "top" programs have strong boosters. Look at their
uniforms or the tournaments they go to.Second, We are only talking about
the "top" players. Weak players don't transfer. When a good player comes to your
team and you are the bottom player, you get cut. How is that "fair" to them?Third, which comes first, a great coach or great players? A well known coach
in our state said, "...that's why the good players gravitate to the better
programs." Can you say, transfer for athletic reasons?Fourth, has there
been a championship team in 4A or 5A that had no transferred athletes? Probably
not.Fifth, if this new law passes, the dynasties will get stronger and the
weak teams weaker. Go look at eh faces of a weak team that just got crushed by
one of the powerhouses. Fair?
Give any student one free transfer anytime after they enter high school. Then
hold them to that decision. Not a perfect solution but better than what they do
now. My child competed for the high school where his club coach
coached. I have no regrets nor do I make any apologies to his geographical
school. His club coach knew how to coach, the other one did not. He will now
compete in college with an athletic scholarship and that was our goal. Not everyone gets an athletic scholarship and not everyone gets an
academic scholarship. But if your child has the athletic ability to get a
college scholarship with good coaching I see nothing wrong with going where the
best coach is, especially when your geographic school has poor coaching. To me it is the same as seeking out a high school with strong academics
to give your child the best chance to obtain an academic scholarship. There is
no punishment for academic transfers even though the goal of a scholarship is
the same. The value of the athletic scholarship over the four years is well
Does anyone know if a kid can transfer without losing a year of eligibility if
the school they are leaving does not make AYP (under No Child Left Behind). My
understanding of "no child" is that if a school does not make adequate yearly
progress, parents must be allowed to move their kids if they choose. There are
several high schools who are not making AYP now so parents ought to be able to
transfer their kids withou any strings. Can someome clarify?
Wait, first you guys are saying that coaches need to be more committed, and then
you say that paraprofessionals are the way to go? That is a complete
contradiction - paraprofessionals don't coach as a profession (as opposed to
teachers, whose coaching profession is often tied to their teaching). Paras
have other jobs to worry about and, in all honesty, you get a lot more of the
"this is just a hobby" mentality from paras than you do from on-staff coaches.
Ridiculous...shows how little you really know about the inner workings of
athletics.There is NOTHING wrong with play where you live. Just as
families may move for other factors if they are important enough, they can move
for athletics. When did we get this entitled idea that kids should be able to
go wherever they want and we need to accommodate them? All we are doing is
catering to an already over-pampered and selfish generation. PLAY WHERE YOU
LIVE. Period. If you don't like the coach, move or don't play. Lastly,
coaches are to blame for recruiting but not nearly as much as parents. Shopping
your kid around is getting out of hand!
Well said bulldog72. How much time (i.e. taxpayer money) is our state
government spending on this issue? Great work - Sen. Howard Stephenson,
re: bulldogyour comment."When did we get this entitled idea
that kids should be able to go wherever they want and we need to accommodate
them?"I believe it was about the time our kids were born in this
great Country its called freedom and I believe we are ALL entititled to it. Its
a lot like a job if you don't like where you work because of your boss or those
around you then you move on and find another job. Same with athletics if your
Coach is clueless or the people you go to school with are not those you want to
spend time with then guess what you can move on to another school for academic
or athletical reasons. PLAY WHERE YOU WANT kids its your choice and it always
will be that way just decide earlier now instead of after you hit High School!
This is 4 years of a kids life that is important lets not punish them and waste
1 of those years because somebodys parents can't stand to see somebody they know
go somewhere else because they are to worried what others might think of them,
Recruiting? Why is it against the rules for sports but not for band, or
musicals/plays, academics etc? The kids don't really need to be recruited, they
all know who has the best football team, or band or cheer squad, or thespian
group. Either allow open enrolement across the board, or closed all schools to
boundaries, NO EXCEPTIONS!Adults - would any of you stay at a job
where your boss did not like you, would not promote you or give you a chance?
Why should we expect kids to do any different in their schools or classrooms?
Kids drop or change classes all the time because of teacher conflicts and no one
says a word... you don't think the same type of conflict can and does exist with
coaches?Put yourself in the best position for success, on the field,
stage or classroom!
Great example fbman, i think those that are worried about open enrollment are
worried for semi selfish reasons. Worried about another program doing better
than their own or a kid coming into the program and taking there kids spot on
the team. They might also be coaches who worry that they would have to put in a
lot more time than they where playing on in order to keep his kids from leaving
or even compete with that other team. When i was in High School i actually moved
three different times because my family actually moved, and i was a pretty big
part of each team I was on. Moving from school to school was a hard and
intimidating thing to do. Not everyone like me especially some of the kids whose
spots i took. But i learned a lot for each program and i also made a lot of
friends. It partially made me who i am today. I wouldn't recommend it to
everyone but I did learn a lot, and I learned how to live outside my comfort
zone. Let the kids decide were they want to go. The alternative sounds almost
RE:ShadowFreedom you say. What's free in this counrty? Water We have to
pay for that, Public education oh? We have to pay for that. Nothing is free.
We all have to earn what we get in this society. Yes we roam where we want and
make choices that we want but there are always consequences to our actions Their
are rules for a reason. If things were free we would be in total choas And that
is where we would be headed if you allow kids to transfer when and where they
want. This is not a state like NEW York or Cali where there are great players
everywhere. You on have a handful here. And if they all go to the same school,
how is that fair. If this was college fine, but we are trying to build kids
into good citizens of society and if you give them want they want they will
achieve nothing which is a fact. and like someone said in one of the comments
those schools who have succes have money so they gravite to money, no so much
the coach i want to see the successful coaches win fair
Re: ShadowYour analogy is wrong. Yes, people are free to LEAVE
jobs that they do not like, however they cannot simply choose to go wherever
they want. Can you imagine this? This is the mentality that we have, that we
expect that ALL schools should freely take on an athlete if they want to play
there. Does that mean that if I do not like my job at Dell, then Apple, IBM,
and HP all HAVE to take me? That would be a fairer analogy. Furthermore, this
is not the adult world, this is high school, and I don't see why people have
such a problem with having different rules than adult society. I mean, does
your job make you check in with a note from a parent when you are late? Of
course not, but I would bet that most people are in support of this system for
HS students - different rules because it IS different.Whatever happened to
people being grateful and making the most of the opportunities they do have?
Instead, the message we are sending them is: demand and take all you can get
cause everybody owes you! Sad
BigCity,You are hilarious, and exactly the fear I’m talking
about. You say there are consequences and you are correct, why would you want to
pile on additional consequences to that of having to try and assimilate into a
new school and make new friends and having to put up with parents and the
community talking about you behind your back and saying you don’t belong.
You are scared that all the good kids will go to one school and win a state
title, but wouldn’t that just provided opportunities for kids that stay to
step up and learn that position. So it would actually help some kids if one kid
left. Your are right that that team might win state but those other teams will
still win games and learn a lot for doing so. While everyone will know that if
the one super school didn’t have all those move ins they wouldn’t
have won state. If what you are after is trophies and medals then I could see
how you would worry so much about kids moving around.
Im from out of state. In most states it is play where you live and people in
Utah act like it is a crime or you are taking away their freedom. I know what
schools are doing the recruiting. Now they are talking to kids in middle school
for football and baseball. Those are the schools that need to be stop. I heard
one team is out now trying to recuit players for next years varsity team because
they dont have near the talent they had the past 5 years. The need to stop
coaches from working with the acadmey kids because it seems that some place
themselves there to use it as a recruiting tool. Im all for giving a kid a
chance to start over at a new school because maybe the kid will not play enough
but those kids help teams with lesser talent to compete with the teams that
utah10,Since you know of a school out their recruiting lets here
there name and those who are doing it so we can punish them, oh thats right its
all here say as usual, kids go to other schools because THEY want to coachs are
not out recruiting them they may come in contact with them but I am positive
they aren't offering them anything.
utah10,Thats what I'm talking about helping the kids, and govern the
bulldog 72 Your a prime example of a parent that cares about what
others think of your decisions, let your kid go to the neighboring school so he
can be happy and quit worring what others think of you. Im sorry you don't like
working for Dell, but if you try for a position at apple, IBM, ect I am sure
they will give you a fair chance to make their team as does every HS in the
State and if they don't see any value for your services then I can't see why
Dell took you in the first place unless they were struggling to hire for that
position, that just tells me that someone else got an oppurtunity.
Hypothetically speaking here I am sure you don't work for Dell.
Shadow,No, I do not work for Dell. I am a coach, and I have seen
too many kids get used and too many parents with the wrong idea of what sports
should be about, and too many coaches who would rather recruit talent instead of
work hard with the kids they are given and teach them the right way, the right
process, to do things and be successful. Lest you think that this is sour
grapes, I have won numerous championships at different levels, and I have beaten
those recruiting schools, but I do not feel that it is anywhere close to the
spirit of high school athletics to allow recruiting to take place.Please
stop giving these kids a false sense of entitlement by allowing them an easy way
out whenever they don't like their situation. Life is not like this - when are
we ever going to teach these kids to deal with a situation that might be a
little tough? Why is our first answer to run away and find something better
instead of overcoming adversity? I really hope that they don't approach
problems in their marriage like this in the future!!!
Your right bulldog72 lets make our kids SETTLE for what is given to them, the
majority of these kids aren't running away they are avoiding the politics that
Coachs possibly like yourself are inserting into their programs. Its a shame
that the competitiveness of all sports takes over in High School not only for
the athlete but also for the parent who is donating money or trying to impress
the coach who then ends up feeling guilty and doesn't want to hurt feelings of
their "sugar parents". I agree with you that Coachs should work hard with what
they have but a lot of coachs want it handed to them from the youth programs in
their community, not only are they not committed to help with them they have no
respect for the people who have dedicated YEARS of hard work to get them where
they are but some coachs appreciate what was built for them, difference for our
HS is that our Coach can't make them better they are at their best when they get
to him and that has been a problem for 7 years when he was given a winning team
Seen it all:I believe you are wrong in that there are schools in
4A/5A who win with their own kids. I know for a fact the Lone Peak baseball
team who won the 5A championship this past season has only kids from their
boundary on their team.There are however additional kids who live in
our boundary on other baseball teams in our region.
Shadow,What a shame that you are generalizing coaches based upon one
bad experience. MOST coaches are good men who care deeply about their young
men, but there are some bad ones. Here's the problem. If open enrollment is
allowed to continue to lead to rampant recruiting, then envision this situation:
School A has just completed another losing season and has fired their coach. A
new coach comes in who is incredible, everything that you would want in a HS
coach. He is also an honest man who will not go recruit athletes from other
schools, which is a violation of the rules.Despite his best efforts, kids
are kids and they get stars in their eyes about one program or another and keep
leaving. Despite this man's best efforts, and as good a coach as he may be, it
is hard to win without a decent number of athletes, and so losing continues and
athletes continue to leave and nothing changes. The school becomes a reflection
of the athletic program and is simply not a desirable place to attend. Sound
fair? This is EXACTLY what is happening to schools.
...continuedBut parents do not seem to care about what happens to
the school in these situations! That is the point that I am trying to make.
Schools should represent their communities! I think that if you live in a
community and something is not the way that you want it, then you have a
responsibility to have a hand in making things better. If you do not wish to be
a part of the solution, then you ought to move out of the community to another
one that suits you better.But this is not what happens - what happens is
the situation that I relayed in my previous messages about what is happening to
these schools. And before too long no one worth a darn will want to come there
and coach because they see that there is no support from the community. I
am not saying, as you suggest, that kids need to 'settle', I am saying that they
should stick around and be part of the solution instead of taking the easy way
out and running to a situation where everything is already OK. We have lost our
sense of community and school pride :(
Sentry 52,You total contridict youself and I'm glad you find me hilarious
I am quite funny if you knew me. You also said in your comment that I was right
a lot which means you see my point of view which is great. I respect that. One
thing I totally disagree with you about is that coaches are after trophies which
in a way is correct. Every coach who coaches is after a trophy that is what
competition is for. You don't coach just to watch a team play a game. You play
to win. I get that. But a fair system is needed. I'm fine if a kid goes to a
junior high where he or she knows that they will play for a particular high
school. That is a rule and I respect that. But jumping from high school to
high school because of a coach recruiting you for athletic reason is wrong. It
shouldn't be aloud If these coaches were such great coaches they wouldn't need
to do this. They would build there program from there young players in lower
grade levels. Thats where it starts
Shadow. We all know who is recruiting and who is not. It's no secret. We
don't have to play the name game. That is why the UHSAA is putting in this rule.
It's a no brainer of why they are doing this. And to those coaches who do get
no respect from other coaches as well. It's just like society you don't repsect
those who don't treat you with respect or lie, cheat and back stabbed. That is
what coaches are doing If you respest people like that then you have an issue.
Like i said earlier in a comment These parents know what they are getting into
when they enroll there kid a school. You should know who and what a head coach
is like way before you child goes to high school. If not as a parent you are
not doing your job. You should know the personality of the coach and what
offenses he or she runs. I you don't you can find yourself in trouble. Parents
have a job to do as well. Not just the coach. In closing this rule is needed
for the cheater plain and simple
Lets talk about "recruiting" for a second. This thread is full of people saying
"you know who is recruiting", that seems a lot more like a bunch of rumors.
Timpview for example is rumored to recruit. I can't speak for every single
situation but I do know of cases where players parents talk to other players
parents about going to Timpview to play. Does that constitute the coach
recruiting? NO! Most every high school player knows coach Wong runs a great
program and does more than most coaches to get as many of his kids scholarships
at any college level as he can. But his response to kids wanting to come to play
at Timpview? "Come talk to me when its approved, you will get an honest chance,
I play the best kids"I am pretty sure that is almost the same
response from the other "recruiting school coaches".Does not seem
like recruiting to me.That being said, open all schools or close
them all, thats the only answer.
Free my people> from poor programs that dont help athletes.
Get real everyone! The problem is not the students, the problem is the parents
who keep pimping their kids out to a "better" program. They do this
because they want to relive their high school glory days through their kid's
re: love the gameI believe what you say about LP they are a class
act team and have played against those kids for 5 years before they hit High
School and they are still playing well most of them. Kudos to your program when
they hired their new Coach several years ago unfourtnately now we are living in
the no progress years since your old Coach came our way!
Bulldog,You are right on. Here is the issue. First the coaches who
do recuit now will have people do their recuiting before they get to the high
school level. This is the case for some schools. They are recuiting players
from super league and little league football now. I coach and I have also had a
number of coaches try to talk to my a few of my players saying they should come
over and play at that school. I have heard of 2 coaches having players and
their parents over for dinner to discuss what he would do for them. Some of the parents on here try to blame coaches for reasons why there
son is not playing. As a coach I dont care if a parent built me the best field
in the state Im still going to play the best players who help me win. Yes,
sometimes coaches do play that game but most will not and its because you son
isn't as good as you think. Parents always remember the good
moments their kids have from little league on and they think what they did 10
years ago apply's to the present.
I saw some bashing of high school coaches that were teachers. Let me give some
names (and the list is far from complete) that were great coaches that were high
school teachers. Many of these names should be familiar and many are/were great
classroom teachers: The list:Kerry AndersonWendy BillsCal BinghamWilbur BraithwaiteJoan BurdettDave ChavisBett ClarkSteve CramblittRob CuffPaul DartJoe Wolfe
DavisCraig DruryRoger DupaixEva ExcellDean FowlesJoel GardnerBarry HarringtonDarold HenryDon HoltryFrank HoustonShauna KayMike LaHargoueThom LarsonQuincy
LewisDeanna MeyerDon NeffDave PeckGean PlagaJim
PorterDennis PreeceBrandon RipplingerMike RipplingerLori
SalvoSteve SandersonGeorge SlugaRobert SteeleCindy
StuartSonny SudburyDavie SwensenTed TaylorBart
ThompsonChad Van OrdenLarry WallJay WelkLouis WongAgain, not a complete list by any stretch of the imagination. These are
great coaches, championship coaches, many are legendary coaches.
Now make a list of professionals or successful business people who could
have done a better job, driven people who wouldn't settle for a teachers wage
and wanted more for themselves and their family and could now give back much
more. Leaders in our community who have excelled in a given sport and actually
played the game and a high level. Many on your list (of course the very best)
fit these criteria but for sure most high school teachers, turned coaches don't
fit. They are in it for the extra $1500 a year and some do a great deal of
damage with their: my way or the highway mentality. Many have been around way
too long and should be replaced but the system is structured for them to take
care of each other and (they call it) support each other but in many cases it's
a cover up and the other coaches know there are poor coaches working with these
young athletes. In business, they promotes the good and demotes the bad, the
education system needs to do the same. The education system is government, and
the government doesn't work well, ever!
softball mom, You sound like a bitter parent who has a daughter you
think didn't play because of politics. Maybe she wasn't good enough. Also as a
coach I work my tail for my program. Almost everything I do revolves around the
kids and making the program better. Helping kids get to colleges, working with
the players each fall, winter, spring and summer. Updating our field to make it
a place were the kids and community can be proud of. I like a lot of other
coaches will go the extra mile. Not all coaches are the same.
also to softball mom,You can be driven to succeed and still me a
teacher. I played baseball in college and Im a driven teacher and coach. Yes
my wife has to work because you can't live off a teachers salary but my family
has more then 95% of the people out there. Also by teaching and coaching I make
a difference in young kids lifes and I hope to be a good example to my kids and
to others. You can't put a price tag on that.
softball Mom: There ARE a lot of great paraprofessionals that do great work in
our high school programs. I don't think I said there weren't these people. But
I wanted to show that there are a lot of great coaches that ARE high school
teachers. Many paraprofessional coaches ALSO do the same things you claim many
high school teachers do as coaches. I don't really want to bash on anyone that
will make the sacrifice of working with our young people and trust me $1500 is
really nothing for the amount of time these coaches (teacher or
paraprofessional) put in and the sacrifices they make. I see a lot of high
school coaches, many cases teachers, that put back their entire coach's salary
and then some to keep their programs going. The fact of the matter the coach's
above have shaped history, shaped lives and I guess for "government" employees
did a great job. Oh well...P.S. I'm sure that list could be much,
much longer. Sorry to all the great coaches I left off the list, your past work
is appreciated, your future work also appreciated.
Some are good some arent but sometimes it just isnt a good fit for the kid.
Hypothetical. I was starting qb as a sophomore. Had a great year and started
receiving imterest from several colleges. Coach leaves between soph and jr year
for another job. New coach runs the option. Told me i wont be qb because I am
a pro style qb and not a running qb. Wants me to be TE in a no pass offense.
should I be allowed to transfer or do I need to stay, lose any chance to play in
college and learn a "life lesson".
Utah10many professional coeahes (teachers) are great,
some not... guess that's how it is in all sectors of life.good
point, its the recuirting that is the bad deal, not looking for opprotuniities.
the rub is those coaches that are getting ahead (winning record) by
going outside theri school boundries and recruiting to win, not for the kids at
all, but for themselves!
The Kids need to be able to chose where they want to play sports. Also, the
school district's are also free to choose rules that govern the students choice.
Therefore, if there are rules in place to prevent unfair recruiting
practises i.e. attracting away kids to other schools because they have a booster
or some type of "sugar daddy" to bank roll there sports programs. Then Yes safe
guards are called for.Leave the kids alone and let them play ball,
without the adult cankering.
You guys are significantly downplaying the impact playing at a top quality
program can have in some sports. Football is that way. If I had a kid whose
goal (not mine, theirs) is to excel in their sport and to get a college
scholarship then I would do everything I possible could to maximize his
chances.Yes, you can be discovered by Utah or BYU if you play in
Santaquin, but if you want to be recruited by the major national schools, then
your chances are much higher at the select programs that have coaches w/
reputations, contacts ect.Look at who has been recruited and signed
by national schools over the last few years:Cottonwood: Havili
(USC), Martinez (USC), Fili (Oregon), Cate (Oklahoma St)Timpview: Suafilo
(UCLA), Badger (Notre Dame)Bingham: Holt (national recruit, signed
locally)Pleasant Grove: Lloyd (Stanford)Yes, if you are a
freak of nature like Heimuli than you could play at Brighton and be a national
recruit. But your chances are better at a power school.
And why is athletics any different than other talents. I know of a family who
sent their kid to AF so they could be in their band. I know a family that sent
their kid to one of the Orem programs because of some drama thing.In
football, quality programs have better coaching, more competition in practice,
more meaningful and pressure type games, coaches familiar w/ recruiting and who
have contacts, an environment that breeds success. All of those factors can
help maximize your sons talent and can potentially get them to the next level
when they otherwise wouldn't.It's not saying you couldn't get a
scholarship from your local school, where your head coach has a lifetime losing
record, where you struggle to find enough kids to fill the roster, where kids
have to go both ways, where you practice on a goat track - but it definitely
helps for some -
You know other states have a league for just private schools and then for public
schools. Why not in Utah? that way those who want to recruit and whatever can
Havili, not really, proved to be a major disappointment to his team when his
number was called he was found to be ineligible to participate. Use another
example there are many others. For that matter lets simply not put USC up as the
"shinnig light on a hill" now here we find a squeeky clean program.
@TimpYour rationale is flawed. These players did not get recruited
primarily because of the program that they played with, they were talented
enough to play somewhere and ended up at one of these schools. I will agree
that good program draw the best athletes, but please don't say that these boys
would not have been recruited as heavily if they had played elsewhere (and in
the case of at least FIli, Martinez, and Havili, at their home school). I think
they would have done just fine getting attention.
This isn't even an issue for those students who live in small towns throughout
the state. Recuiting means these students must compete not just against schools
that are larger than they are, they must also compete agaisnt a much larger
recruiting base. Imagine being from a town like Delta and having to compete
against teams that have brought in players from all over the Salt Lake Valley.
In Hawaii if you transfer from one school to another you sit out one season. If
the players are good enough the scouts will find them. One of the benefits of
playing on a club team is supposed to be the exposure to college coaches at the
bigger tournaments. Parents, coaches(club & High School) and players need to
contact college coaches if that is what they want. Another issue is the safety
of the players. If all the big stud football players go to one school could that
lead to injuries for the smaller players left at home. People also need to be
able to honestly look at themselves and decide if they are cut out for the next
Lets keep it simple. Each school has a boundary. Kids that live within that
boundary go to that school. If they want to participate in athletics they do so
at the assigned school. No transfers without academic or behavioral
reasons. If a school has a great coach, they'll be a power for a few years, but
other schools have a more realistic chance to do well occasionally. No more
recruiting powerhouses that pull all the good players because they are the
powerhouses that pull all the good players etc. etc. etc...The
current system is unfair, and making transfers easier would make it worse.