Witnesses not certain he died immediately
Gardner is dead and that's OK with me - he died as the law said he should.
However, I don't feel any better because of his execution, and I don't sense
society is any better either. There is a vacuous emotion emanating after
executions. Perhaps it's time to reconsider the morality of societal mandated
I'm all for capital punishment in cases like this,but I'd never want to watch
it. Just reading about it makes me fel queezy. Why are members of the media
allowed in to watch? Why do they even want to? Very strange. Atleast justice was
Thank you for publishing the story. It removed some of the mystery of the
execution seeing the pictures of the chair and room where it took place.
The world is a better place. Too bad it took so long.
Condolences to the victims family, condolences to the Gardner family.
Life in prison as an alternative would be fine with me as long as it required 8
hrs. a day of hard labor and some sort of community service rendered within the
confines of the prison. No more of the glorified "big house" You do the crime
it's going to cost you BIG! If the death penalty is to survive it can't take 25
yrs to get on with it. Limit the appeals. Have a panel of representatives pro
bona provide the best 3 appeals. If you fail on those 3 then it's time to pay
the consequence of your actions. Make prison as undesirable as possible and quit
making the honest hard working taxpayer another victim.
I'm not going to comment on the moral issue of whether executions should be done
or not because that tends to be a personal decision on the part of each
individual. I do, however, question why we let the process of
appeals take 25 years and countless hundreds of thousands of taxpayers' money to
get to this point. I have heard the figure of $20,000 to $25,000 a year to keep
one inmate in prison. I really don't care if they are executed or locked away
for the rest of their lives. I would like to know if it is cheaper for us
taxpayers to pay for their incarceration for the rest of their life or to pay
for their endless appeals to state and federal courts for twenty plus years.
' "But it wasn't bad whatsoever. You didn't see hardly any blood. He was
dressed all in black. I just feel like justice has finally been served. He
deserved it."' - Article. Found guilty, admitting the guilt, and
more than 2 decades since the death of his victims... I am simply
glad this chapter is over.
Was he a mormon?. Gardner had met with an LDS bishop, a person he had known for
several years and whom he trusted. Gardner sat on a bunk in the observation cell
and spoke to the bishop through a small port used for handcuffing inmates.
Gardner was repentant but he said his family shoudn't mourn his loss but
celebrate his freedom.So you punishment hounds realy think you got
the best of him this way? My worst nightmare would be 30 more years in prison.
1) I hope the next one doesn't take 25 years.2) It appears a space has
opened up for Curtis Algier.
That was an interesting write-up. I lived in Utah at the time of his last crime,
and I remember the panic that had set in throughout the Salt Lake and
surrounding areas. With time, people forget the horrible impact that it had when
it initially happened. He's gone. His "legacy" will be brought to
light now and again, but it is better that an unjust man to die rather than let
him kill again and have no mercy, or to manipulate the system with his cohort -
This tiny part of the world continues to grow colder and colder with each
7 times 70, Love thy enemy, do good to them that deceitfully use you. Thou shalt
not kill. Christ made it very clear.RLG wasn't an innocent man, but
murder by state is still murder and makes "justice" no better then crime. Life
in prison is punishment enough and can even turn a murder into a human being -
See "Shakespeare Behind Bars". Of course that requires compassion on the part
of people. Something I think is lacking in Utah today.
Hmmm. Did the Des News write anything in regards to Gardner's victims and their
last words?I didn't think so. The victims are nobodies.
Their lives don't matter. The suffering of their families and friends is of no
importance. At least not to some of you.
As a tax payer it is upsetting that we had to pay for 25 years for this criminal
to sit in prison. I can't believe death row inmates have to wait so long to be
executed. They should be executed within a year of their death sentence. I'm concerned the grouping of shots was so wide. 4 inches apart! At
least one of the shooters pulled to the right when he shot. That bullet hole on
the far right missed the bullseye by at least 3 inches. After all the practice
the shooters experienced, I'm surprised by the variance. Maybe that was by
If he was repentant then good for him. But, murder is something you cannot undo.
Justice has been served and now it is up to the big man upstairs to decide his
eternal fate. I just hope that the victims can now move on with their lives. It
is ridiculous that it took so long and so many taxpayer dollars to exercise
Good!!No more appeals, no more wasted food and medical care. No more
having to deal with all of the associated idiocy.No lets march the
rest of the death row denizens in there and finish the job.
Crime and Punishment. Too bad it took 25 years to fully serve justice.
CT98, the trajectory of the bullets was undoubtedly altered to a small degree as
it passed through his body. You can't tell exactly where the bullets hit his
chest based on the wholes in the chair behind him. And, like you said, some of
the variance in bullet placement may have been intentional, although I doubt
What a blood thirsty bunch I find here. I am sad that anybody thinks this solved
anything when even the victim's family thought it was atrocious. His final
judgement was always in divine hands. And we are more worried about money than
human life? Those who are asking: It IS far more expensive to execute than to
let a person live in prison for life. Where is love, forgiveness and mercy?
Justice would be restoring a lost life, not making another one. The U.S. stands
with third-world countries, and the Middle East in nations that actively execute
others. It clearly, obviously, isn't a stopping murders. I am sure we made
Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Mongolia, Lebanon, Somalia, Ghana, Iraq and Iran very
Had I been one of the shooters....."Oops..I thought you said on 'one'."
I thought I felt something last night about 12:15am. I thought it was another
after shock. I didn't think I'd hear the shots this far away! Sorry, but Gardner
got what he deserved. I'm just sorry that so many tens of thousands of tax
paying dollars (for you in Utah; not me) was spent over the countless delays. 25
years for someone sentence to death to finally receive his true sentence, at
least here in mortality. Way too long!
I support capital punishment, however, 25 years is cruel and unusual.We need to fix the justice system to punish these people a bit quicker...He
deserved what he got, but if he really changed like he says he did...it was
cruel (although correct) to do what they id.
Dear Not So fast: The fiancee of ONE victim was opposed to the execution. The
family members of the others supported it. They said they felt relieved when it
was over and they were at peace.Having said that, this is a tragedy.
The death penalty is the only way the punishment can fit the crime. In
addition, life in prison is truly cruel and unusual punishment. That's why Gary
Gilmore wanted to be executed. He had spent his life in prison and knew what it
was like. He preferred death.When someone commits a murder he/she
destroys so many lives. Not only the victim but the victim's family. In
addition, he/she destroys his/her own life and family and traumitizes
society.We should not celebrate these executions. We should do it
with great sorrow. But, they must be done. We must send the message that we
value human life so highly that, if you take a life, YOU WILL PAY WITH YOUR
Rox|10:33 a.m. June 18, 2010Had I been one of the shooters....."Oops..I thought you said on 'one'."====================So in other words you would have been totally unprofessional.
Random thoughts:Justice was served 25 years ago, with a fair trial and a
jury verdict. What happened this morning was not justice, it was vengeance.Whether you favor or oppose capital punishment, nobody should be happy
or celebrating today.Maybe everyone who favors capital punishment
should have to watch it, to see what the actual consequences of their views are.
It might make them think twice.Yes, MapleDon, the DN DID write
something about Gardner's victims and their families. In fact, over the last few
days, there have been multiple articles describing the pain and difficulty
Gardner caused to their families. I read every one of them. They are not
nobodies. Their lives do matter, as much to those who oppose the death penalty
as to anyone else. Trying to paint death penalty opponents as unfeeling or
uncaring to victims is unfair and misses the entire point.My most
sincere sympathies go out today to the families of Gardner's victims, and to
Gardner's own family, who are also victims. But my greatest sympathy is for a
society that continues to think what happened today is right.
It's unfortunate that there are people in this world so evil that they cannot
exist in society without killing and harming others even when confined as a
prisoner. Gardner was one of those people. I thank the people that risked
their lives every day tending to his needs and working in his vicinity. It's
unfortunate that he had to die, but thankfully it was him and not yet another
innocent. May his many victims find some closure and peace in his death after
he dragged this out for so many years.
It's disheartening to see such unintelligent comments about "State Sponsored
Murder".Is it theft when the state FORCES you to pay for your
traffic citation?Is it unlawful for law authorities to FORCE you, against
your will, into a jail cell?Is it theft when when the bank takes your car
and house because you didn't pay your bills?Mercy can not rob the
demands of justice. If mercy prevails, how his justice met?When you
take something, justice demands you give it back. Since those innocent souls
can't be brought back, the next best thing - IF YOU BELIEVE IN JUSTICE - is
having your own life taken; YOU MUST GIVE SOMETHING. Giving NOTHING is NOT
justice.Murder is malicious. Breaking the law is malicious.Capital punishment is justice. Consequences and punishments issued by the law
are justice. There is a fundamental and distinct difference.You may
not like it, and if you can't accept it you most likely "believe" you support
justice but you don't really. You just waffle your way through life thinking
murderers sitting in a cell, wasting away is somehow justice.Convenient.
The Death Penalty is ineffective as a deterrent because it takes so long. One
appeal then let justice take it's course.I do feel bad for families
all around, both victims and condemned, but Gardner got what he deserves. If
only all murderers could get their just due then the world would be a better
Twenty five years from crime to punishment is absurd!Exactly how
much have we taxpayers paid to the lawyers working for the late Mr. Gardner?
Was their goal to ensure a fair trial and appropriate reviews for their client,
or just a lengthy career with a blank check to pursue every frivolous legal
gimmick they can think up... with there obscene hourly meters running the whole
time?Gardner got his just punishmnent, but about 23 years late.I send my condolences the the victims and their families.
Chase | 11:07 a.m.----It might do you some good to understand
Justice & Mercy.You advocated Justice and justice being served, but
Mercy is also part of our judicial system.Cry blood all you want,
State Executions are State sponsored killings - period.
The People are murderers no matter what the justification. So much revenge here
under the guise of 'justice'. Kill this guy while the US still pays former NAZI
murderers and Japanese murderers retirement from WWII because they cooperated
with the US and turned over the results of inhuman experiments on Live US
POW's.There is no such thing as Justice when government is involved and
the taxpayer is the willing accomplice to murder in each case.
For all those refering to the bible, make sure to at least be correct.To readAbook "Thou shalt not kill. Christ made it very clear." The command it
thou shal not MURDER and it was made perfectly clear by God to Moses, a long
time before JC.To Not So Fast "His final judgement was always in
divine hands". His spiritual judgement of his deeds are in Gods hands. The
bible hands down many examples of punishment for crimes between man and man.
Capital punishment included.And to RenoGardner "Not a Christian
virtue. We break God's law--thou shalt not kill--to avenge the victims'
families". Again, it is thou shall not MURDER. You are allowed to kill someone
under very specific circumstances. It is MURDER when it is sporting.
Hey MarkyMark...Yup. You bet.
FOR SHAME! This is terrifying and disgusting. Everytime I read of an execution I
feel physically ill. It is beyond appalling and utterly unacceptable, whichever
way one looks at it. I am generally moderate and not one for "absolutes," but it
is sickening and twisted for anyone to think that state-sanctioned murder is
acceptable. Period. I have heard victims' families explain that it didn't give
them the relief the expected. (Duh! The death of another isn't going to bring
your loved one back.) Several studies have shown that it is more expensive to
execute someone than house them for the remained of their life. It is not a
deterrent to crime. It is simply barbaric.
Hmmmm. Gun men? No gun women? Also I find the comments about believing in
capital punishment, but not wanting to watch it interesting. I'd like to see the
actuall killing done by draft like jury selection. I wonder how long the death
peanalty would last?
readAbook. Christ never said "Thou shalt not kill.". That was God and it is
more accurately translated to "Thou shalt not murder." There is a difference
between killing and murdering.Also please read Deuteronomy 19:21. "A
life for a life."Now Christ did say "He that is without sin among
you, let him first cast a stone at her." Which indicates that his view was
those that sin should not judge/punish others because of their sins.
Justice has been served and fullfilled. There is other news in the making. It's
over with Ronnie Lee Gardner. Let's move on people. Now they want to make a
movie of his life. Write a book also. He got more attention than Gary Coleman.
If the death penalty is justice, then why do we not execute everyone convicted
of murder?If our intention is to teach others not to kill, then why do we
do it hidden away behind walls?Why do we not have public executions? If it
is going to help the victims family so much, then why do we not let them see his
face while he dies?For those who want to argue a scriptural argument
(which I find highly offensive) I think all Mormons that support the death
penalty, should be required to meet in the middle of temple square, and
participate in a public stoning of the convicted.If god approves, then it
isn’t murder, right?I leave out the other religions, because as far
as I could see, they were all at church asking for forgiveness and clemency.
The Sixth Commandment clearly is a prohibition against murder; not an
injunction against capital punishment, the death penalty.God says to
Noah and his family, "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the
hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; and at the hand
of every man's brother will I require the life of man. Whosoever sheddeth a
man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he
man.". Capital punishment, the taking of the perpetrators life, is what God
demands for the murder of a human being by man or beast. Their can
be no doubt that the Old Testament teaches capital punishment. It began by
demanding it for murder and expanded its application under the Law given to
Moses. Therefore, the principle of capital punishment is well established.
I say not only kill the murderers but they should be killed in the same manner
that they killed. If they torture victims in any way let them be punished in
the same way. I think this might deter more effectively than shooting a shell
of the perpetrator 25 years later.
I have always felt that it should be our personal privilege to have right to
death, as well as right to life. If a person desires to die, then the state
should act as executioner, irregardless if there is capital crime or not. If I
or somebody desires to come forward and die or serve a sentence in behalf of
another person, we should be given that privilege and right. I don't see why
anybody should have to commit a crime in order for the state to end their lives.
Some follow the teachings of the brutal Old Testament god, "an eye for any eye"
(which also is found in The Koran).Others are more comfortable with the
New Testament god preaching love, compassion and forgiveness, "Father forgive
them - they know not what they do."Taking the life of another can never
bring back the dead.
As a person whose own brother committed murder (and admitted it after he got out
of prison) I feel that death is the only true form of punishment for this sort
of crime. My brother played the game while in prison, even cozying up to the
warden. When he got out he was a professional "con". That's the only
difference I was able to see in him. As far as "rehabilitation" there was none
that I could see. I feel that justice would have been served had he been put to
We don't have the death penalty in Canada. Life in prisonment is only 18 years
- they you're eligible for parole. What a joke. If you don't want the death
penalty then life in prisonment should be just that, with no priviledges. It's
supposed to be a punishment.
Sometimes when I reflect on what has happened for the day, I am reminded of how
we have changed or who we have become.Look at our neighbors, Mexico
and Candada. They believe in rehabilitation; they don't have the death
penalty.Look at who we have joined, the ones that have the death
peanalty, Middle Eastern countries, China, African countries, etc.Eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, is that really who we are?I don't believe that anyone thinks about what the punishment is going to be
when they commit a crime; the death penalty is not a deterent to crime.Does anyone really believe that the punishment stops someone from commiting a
crime. Has the punishment ever stopped me or you from doing the wrong thing,
just a thought. Today, I will be out on my boat with friends,
having a great free time. Today, prisoners will still be locked up, never
having a chance to see what life if like, maybe never knowing what life is
Well said Chase!This man has paid a mortal price for his actions.
We now forgive him as Christ taught. But forgiveness does not come prior to
paying a penalty.Taking SEVERAL lives...Mr. Gardner is responsible
for his own death, not the state, not the people who ended his life. Mr.
Gardner's decisions were his own. He lost the right to make decisions for his
own life.God has always sanctioned loss of life for murder, what
Bible are you people reading?Christ did not say to the men on the
cross, it is unjust what is being done to you...even the one man on the cross
corrected the one who railed on the Saviour..we deserve what is happening to us,
this man has done nothing. Do not compare Christ (a perfect,
innocent man) being murdered by "he state" to a guilty man paying for his
crimes. His punishment is equal to his crime and may even benefit him in the
next life...where I promise...he will continue to pay for his crimes. As all of
us will if we do not accept the attonement...
I am not sure how I feel about the death penalty in general, but in this case it
seems warranted and justice seems to have been served. For those who have been
so enraged about the use of the firing squad as the means of execution,
remember: that is what he picked. Condolences to his victims and their families
and to his family as well. Brighter days will follow.
Peru and most other countries much more civilized. No jails like Guantanamo, and
no capital punishment. O well, it's a kind of self purification to kill a mean
"Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" It sickens me that some of you
argue about the difference between murder and kill, that some of you find a
sense of relief and even enjoyment in this grotesque act.There is NO
moral difference between this and the horrifying beheadings overseas. It's not
complicated..no semantic debate..I don't need a lawyer or linguistics professor
to figure out if something I'm doing is wrong. The justification that some are
coming up with is frightening and emotionally based.How backwards we've
become in some ways!
Garrjo, yes, the old testament demanded death.The New Testament says
to live by love.When I was young, I believed in getting even. I was
probably as bad as anybody. As I have become older, hopefully a little wiser, I
think there is a time for punishment, and there is a time when I realize
punishment just doesn't work. If I can get someone to really care
about me, I don't have to punish them. I own some businesses, and I have about
a hundred people that work for me, and I help out my friends that own similiar
businesses, and that adds a couple of hundred more people that I manage.I have come to realize, love is a good way to be in control. I care for
everyone that works for me. They see that in me. As a result, they like being
with me. They do so much more for me, then they would for someone else. Love
can change people.Maybe, we could rehabilite people and treat them
right instead of saying, "oh, let's just put them away forever or let's take
their life." I know I have made mistakes.
I see the wacky blood atonement people are alive and well.These are the
same people that supported a bogus cowboy for president, America's first and
only preemptive war, torture, and most likely the snuffing out of innocent
people's lives at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.When you meet these types
you find they are the happiest and anger-free people on Earth.LOL!
Deterrent?I don't think it works like a speed limit "well I better slow
down or I might get a ticket" Do you think that a killer's mind thinks like
that? "well if I follow through here and get caught, the worst they'll do to me
is life is prison, ha ha suckers!" Premeditated or not, I don't think you'll
find much rational thought going on in there. A deterrent will work only when we
intelligently consider the consequences of our actions. It doesn't apply for
these types of crimes. Ones so emotionally based.
Two things are certain...he will never kill again and the world just because a
A few thoughts...Visions of compassion said: "Some follow the teachings of
the brutal Old Testament god..." God is God, Jesus' father. Though you might
think him to be brutal, he is the same person as Jesus, according to the
bibleBigfatdog... said: "...Has the punishment ever stopped me or
you from doing the wrong thing..."Of course it has, that and my self
respect. Otherwise, what would be the point of stop signs, etc. Now, I'm not
sure what (if anything) keeps YOU from doing the wrong thing. Like
many others have said in these comments, we need to reduce the appeal time so we
don't end up supportsing these scum for 25 years. Especially the ones who've
admitted what they've done.Perhaps a better idea would be to allow the
people to arm and protect themselves, rendering all this a moot point. An armed
person is rarely a victim, and if someone is stupid enough to get killed in a
robbery, rape etc. attempt, they deserved what they got.
1. The death penalty was never meant to be a deterrant against crime. It is a
way of permanently removing a person from this life so that he/she does not kill
another person.2. Nobody reejoices when an execution takes place. We just
re-examine our own consciousness, our own values, our own faith (or lack
thereof).3. For all you Christians out there: That we should forgive
always and leave the judgement up to Him. He also taught that "if you have
ought with thy brother, go to him" and (basically) square things up with him
BEFORE you come to me (Christ) to ask for forgiveness. An executed murderer can
go to his REAL victim to make amends and ask for forgiveness from the one who
was murdered. THAT victim spirit/person now has the opportunity to grow in
their own right by giving that forgiveness (if they desire to do so). There IS
God-given forgiveness for taking one's life - but ceretain eternal laws have to
be followed to achieve it, some of which take place after we leave this mortal
Quoting the Old Testament to use ancient Hebrew laws by Christians (those who
follow Christ and believe what he said regarding his role and "The Law") is
interesting and convenient for those who think somehow justice was served.
Brainuser @ 11:09: Please Google "exoneration project" and let us know what you
think then. Now THAT would be a sign that your name is meaningful
Dear kkodey: There's no such word as "irregardless."Christ said
nothing in opposition to the death penalty for murder. He also stated that his
purpose was not to take anything away from the prophets. To say it was God and
not Christ who made statements in favor of the death penalty is ludicrous.
Christ IS God. Christ and his Father are one in purpose and in the
commandments.Look, I understand why someone wouldn't like Capital
Punishment. It is a very gruesome thing. But, it is the only way true justice
can be done. Would you rob the criminal of his opportunity to pay for his crime
and work toward his forgiveness in the next life?These occassions
are tragic, but it's something that just has to be done. So sad for everyone.
garrjo | 11:57 a.m. Their can be no doubt that the Old Testament teaches
capital punishment. ========== 1. This is a State law -
not God's Law.2. You can't pick and choose what OLD tesament laws to
accept and reject.If you insist of living them, Change the
laws and call for public executions of adulters,People with flat noses,
the blind or the lame can not go to church,Don't graze cattle with other
cattle,Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric....and
my all time favorite;Anyone with a different religion should die.Is that what you want?
Cats | 1:43 p.m.But, it is the only way true justice can be done. Would
you rob the criminal of his opportunity to pay for his crime and work toward his
forgiveness in the next life?==============Wait a second --
1. true justice? This is a State issue.2. If it is
about a sinner and forgiveness - Stop using the Governemnt from "FORCING"
redemption on people - that is against free agency.If that is what
you want, allow a criminal to commit suicide.Keep the State out of the
business of taking lives.
I feel "sorry" for him.Yes what he did was wrong when he was 23 and 24. I would
blame his youth and wrong upbringing(his step dad took him for robberies).He
must have changed over the years and so many years behind the bars was enough
penalty(being in the prison since the age of 23or24 he hardly saw the good side
of life).When I read the comments most of them are merciless, cruel and cold. I
think those people who are more concerned about "taxpayers money" than for mercy
are bigger murderers. If we are told that only the sinless should throw the 1st
stone(pass judgement), none of us would be here.Also God desires "mercy". Mr
Gardner is now liberated from all the shackles and prisons and I hope he made
the right choice of accepting Jesus to live the eternal life God promised.
techhie211, stop signs? Do people stop at stop signs because they can be
punished. Maybe. What about when there is no one around, do people still stop?
I would think that they can't be punished if there is no one there to punish
them. Then millions of people wouldn't stop at stop signs, red lights, run
overing curbs, running over pedestrians, etc. If it isn't the punishment that
stops them, what is it. It could be that they just want to do the right thing.
The stop sign is there so they stop. They don't want to hurt anyone so they
don't run over the pedestrian. Some people can't be punished for not stopping
at stop signs but they still do it; it cold be that it is just the right thing
to do. Maybe, it isn't the punishment; really is that what it is
for you? If it was night and no one could see you go through a red light or a
stop sign, I believe you have other reasons why you stop, just doing the right
thing. New Testament is the completion of the Bible, by showing
Some day we will be the worlds worse end.The human being ist the worse of
all animals on this planet.I'm ashamed from our doing.Who give a
human the right to kill an other human?Nobody....and it will not make the
sin go away or the victim alive again.....Every bad person will be get
punished on judgement day and only the Lord will make this decision.God
forgive them, because they don't know what thet doing!
techhie211, just saying that I believe that America has changed for the worse.
As I noticed, the only countries that don't believe in rehabilitation or people
that don't believe in rehabilitation are countries that believe in hate, Muslim
countries, countries like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, China, Afghanista, countries
that makes women wear Burkas, countries that treat women really bad, even whole
continents like Africa, and the United States.Countries that care
about people, countries that are more advanced like Canada, England, Sweden,
Norway, etc. even Mexico believe in rehabilitation. They don't have a death
penalty.People don't think about the consequences. We are the ones
that sit back and think of what is right. Maybe, we could do something right.
Maybe, we could look at rehabilitation. Death penalty didn't work for Gardner.
Death penalty just doesn't work. Why can't we use something that does work.
Dear LDS Liberal: I don't believe you are really LDS.
Cats, the LDS church does not espouse blood atonement anymore. It is only alive
and well in Utah LDS culture, which is NOT doctrine or part of the LDS church.
Dear JBs: I did not espouse blood atonement.
There seems to be a lot of chatter against capitol punishment. To those against
capitol punishment, consider this --- To me life in a small prison cell for the
duration of my life IS cruel and unusual punishment. Until the time comes when
we can imprison criminals with the freedom to be free and productive in an
economical and just way without risking the lives of others, then the only
compassionate, safe and humane option is to end their life. It's not worth the
risk to society, cost to the rest of us and suffering of the imprisoned to do
Usually I am not on the side of LDS Liberal or Visions of compassion, but in
this case I most certainly am. If we also believe the New Testament to be the
word of God, then we should know that the law of moses was done away because of
Jesus. The death penalty is wrong. On the other hand.....prison ought not to be
so comfortable and have these murderers get a college education with three meals
a day. Utah roads could use some work and I am sure there are many more uses
for people who do not like to follow the law.
"Dear LDS Liberal: I don't believe you are really LDS."Dear Cats, I feel that LDS Liberal
exemplifies what LDS is then you do...
"We must send the message that we value human life so highly that, if you take a
life, YOU WILL PAY WITH YOUR OWN."No, we must show that we value
life by showing that we will not even murder those who commit murder themselves.
Otherwise we're saying: "Hey, life is really valuable and you deprived someone
of it, so we're going to kill you now to show how valuable life is." "You may not like it, and if you can't accept it you most likely "believe" you
support justice but you don't really. You just waffle your way through life
thinking murderers sitting in a cell, wasting away is somehow justice."How about we turn this around - if you support the death penalty you may
"believe" you support justice but you don't really. You just waffle your way
through life thinking murderers being murdered by the state is somehow justice.
The death penalty is not justice - in fact, it's actually
antithetical to the notion of justice. You've just fooled yourself into thinking
otherwise. How sad.
CJL,That is a good argument, although I wouldn't ever call ending a life
safe, compassionate, or humane. Neither is life in prison. However I'd
still side with life in prison because of the rare occasion when new evidence
emerges, the conditions in modern prisons being less cruel than it ever has been
(If you see prison as a defensive maneuver of removing danger from society and
not as a deterrent), and the possibility of true redemption happening.For
those who believe the death penalty isn't being used as a deterrent tool, why a
firing squad? Why the ritual, the show?! It could be less painful and less
foreboding if we wanted it to be only about removing the individual from being a
threat.For the comment about Jesus saying nothing about the death
penalty..what a hoot! He also didn't say anything about the ipad..
One commenter did make a point: who were his victims and what were the
circumstances? I don't live in Utah and have no knowledge of those
circumstances. I'm glad he has "repented", but no amount of repenting in the
world won't undo murder and bring back those lives he took.
Yet another sad chapter in this the most peculiar culture in the United
States.Killing people for any reason will come back to haunt all those
that expouse this god-playing tragedy.
I support the death penalty but what I don't support is sitting on death row for
25 years at our expense! We have the technology now to totally confirm the
identity of a suspect if not see him actually do it. The constitution provides
us with a fair trial and appeals process but thanks to the whiners somehow they
get appeal after appeal after appeal and this has stop.Even though the system
does need to be fixed though,prison is not suppose to be a country club like it
is now.Mandatory 8 hrs hard labor,grow their own produce(but that depends on
climate)Calif.has a couple of prisons that grow their own food.
Rox|11:28 a.m. June 18, 2010Hey MarkyMark...Yup. You bet.================MarkyMark? Well okay. Well your lack
of maturity is one of the reasons you would have never been choosen to be a
member of the firing squad. Imagine being proud that you would want to be
unprofessional in a situation like that.
Personally, I think he should have been executed a long time ago instead of
being supported by our tax dollars. I don't think he is remorseful at all....he
killed 2 innocent men and he lived longer than they were able to. You would
think that he would at least said he was sorry as his last words! Good
Mike in Sandy...Loved your comment.
"How backwards we've become in some ways!"Indeed, why have
justice at all? Let's forget the laws and rules that bind a society. Let's just
close all prisons, why have police to enforce the rules of a society. why even
have a court system.Best solution is no rules, no laws; everyone for
themselves, since is what some of you out there want. I know, let's
install a system found in the movie: Excape from New York. Throw all the
pick-pockets, rapists, arsonists - all together and let them fight it out.
Brother Chuck: whether or not he was a mormon had nothing to do with it.
readAbook: What compassion did he show his victims.
vic|8:32 p.m. June 18, 2010"How backwards we've become in some ways!"Indeed, why have justice at all? Let's forget the laws and rules
that bind a society. Let's just close all prisons, why have police to enforce
the rules of a society. why even have a court system.Best solution
is no rules, no laws; everyone for themselves, since is what some of you out
there want. =======================Uh. . .
so, uh. . . so who said that that is what they want? Who "out there" said that
is what they want? Wow. Just wow.
Pam,Do you REALLY want prison inmates doing Community service..fixing
roads? And where does it say that the death penalty is wrong? This has nothing
to do with the law of Moses. I believe it is for HIS own good to give up his
life if he has any chance at all at being saved! I sure don't want guys like
this fixing my roads..Sheesh!
techhie211|1:31 p.m. June 18, 2010Perhaps a better idea would be to
allow the people to arm and protect themselves, rendering all this a moot point.
An armed person is rarely a victim, and if someone is stupid enough to get
killed in a robbery, rape etc. attempt, they deserved what they got.===========================What!?You've gotta be kidding me!Okay, conservatives, I know most of ya
don't agree with this guy, but you know something? He's on your side.
To Enough: Have you ever seen prison inmates out on the road working? There are
supervised by heavly armed guards. It isn't a frolick out in the sunshine. It
is hard labor. It would save a lot of money having to pay people to do it. I
would rather see the money go to other systems who need it more. You might need
to study the New Testament a little more often. What would Jesus do?
vic | 8:32 p.m. June 18, 2010"How backwards we've become in some ways!""Best solution is no rules, no laws; everyone for themselves, since is
what some of you out there want."I don't even feel like responding
to your post since all it shows is that there are really evil people like you
voting for other really evil people and there's nothing we can do about it. You
will do what you want and so will your neighbor who represents you. Justice
doesn't mean anything you and you use it to make yourself feel good and
powerful. You can vote, you can serve on juries and if your vote is wrong that
is fine too. If it kills someone that is fine too and the people on death row
who were convicted and appealed for decades only to be proven innocent should
accept that it is the rules and the laws and they had the opportunity to stand
before 12 of their ignorant neighbors and let those neighbors vote to kill them,
an innocent person, for something they didn't do. Do they get to vote to kill
their evil juror neighbors?
Re:sunny-one"Condolences to his victims and their families and to
his family as well. Brighter days will follow."You have no right to
talk about his victim's family or to use them to advance your agenda. The family of the person he's being executed for killing DID NOT want him
executed so leave them out of it. There is a reason that the only family member
quoted in the article is that of a guy who was only WOUNDED and not killed. Why
she was even allowed to attend this execution when she was not the family of a
victim of a crime someone can be executed for escapes me. What's next? The
family of a store clerk who was robbed will be allowed to attend the executions
of someone who commits a murder 10 years after the robbery?If I was
the family of someone who was killed and you dared use my family in this manner
you will see about your brighter day when. Do you have no shame? Do you have no
compassion or do you intend to victimize them more to advance your agenda? You
are truly evil.
As sad as the taking of a life may be, as Donne said no man is an island, there
is no doubt the world has become more violent and locking up murderers is not a
fair exchange for the lives they took. As an English writer resident in Spain, I
commend Utah for having the moral courage to deter killers and defend its
population with the ultimate deterrent of an eye for an eye.
Pam-Perhaps being from IL you are unaware of what happened here in "Happy
Valley," UT last week. A young woman was out for a walk on a nature trail and
was attacked by a man who pulled her off the trail, into the bushes, and raped
her, then beat her severely- including breaking her jaw, and left her for dead.
Who is the alleged assailant? Just such an inmate as you're suggesting- out
working in the community, he escaped the day before from those "Heavily armed
guards." Only he was in for minor crimes such as theft and drugs. You might want
to rethink that, "Let's put murderers on the community workforce" idea. I sure
don't want them working on my roads!
Being the mother of a Murder Victim there is no pain like that of someone taking
the life of your loved one. And as with my case this family chose to think only
of their feelings not the feelings of the victims families. Murder is not just a
mistake you can say I have changed for. He needed to pay for his choice to kill.
He did not give his victims a choice but yet he got to live for years and then
chose the way to die himself. I send the families of the victims my thoughts and
prayers and I pray that his family starts to think of the suffering their family
member inflicted on others and show enough compassion to NOT inflict more pain.
If a member of my family took the life of another I could not bear to add to
that pain by not giving them a day to possibly find a small amount of closure.
Cats | 3:12 p.m. June 18, 2010 Dear LDS Liberal: I don't believe you are
really LDS. =============== Born, raised, and
card-carrying since 1977.I'm truely sorry that is so difficult for
you to believe.I am however curious, What was it exactly that
I have said that makes you believe that I am not active LDS and not in good
standing?[BTW - Thanks Sutton | 4:07 p.m.]
All of you people sound as blood thirsty to me as RLG was. God is the only one
who can take a life and don't you think that God had already sentenced Mr.
Gardner to death he had luekemia can you imagine a life in prison with no
medical care to speak of for a disease like luekemia how much suffering you
would go through, the pain and the sickness....that was Gods sentence to Mr.
Gardner and yet the state of Utah chose to overlook God's sentence and chose to
carry out their own. and as for the money aspect if you do your research it
costs an average of 37 Million dollars to us taxpayers to take a deathrow inmate
through the appeal process and finally execute them and it costs an average of
11 million to house/feed them on a life sentence. However this should not be
about the money...Murder is wrong, Period!!! God had the siruation under control
to where RLG would have suffered more than any of his victims did and Utah just
gave him his freedom with no more suffering and no pain involved....you guys
My final word on this thread -- I'm totally against the State or
Government having the ultimate power and authority to decide who lives and who
dies, period.The Europeans don't have such laws because of the
horrors committed by abuse of such laws during WWII.From a people
who once had the State issue an "Extermination Order", I am sadder still.Keep the Government out of the execution business.Ronnie Lee
Garner won't ever kill again - but the State of Utah will.BTW - If you want to save innocent lives -- each of you should slow down and
don't text or use a cell phone while driving.
I personally don't own a cell phone but I agree with everything else you say LDS
JBs: The LDS church has nothing to do with this.
JRJ: If he did repent he will be forgiven but he will suffer the consequences of
I am very private about my political and spiritual thoughts. The only thing I
will share is how appalled I am with are the marksmen on the firing squad.
Because only four rounds are fired and the fifth is a blank so each member of
the squad can pose the question in their conscience of they were one of the team
who actually put a person to death. This is reasonable and compassionate for
them. What I am HORRIFIED about is the firing squads lack of skill. The bullseye
target was only 17 FEET away from where the shots were fired from. From the
pictures of the death chair only one round struck the target where the kill shot
was to be. Shame on them. I am a female marine and wear the insignia of an
excellent marksmen. This means I can hit a target at 500 yards directly in the
bullseye with a service rifle(no scope used). These men were 17 feet away and
only ONE was on the target for the kill shot. Though I would not want to have
had this job at least I would have been true to whom I was to kill.
To the Victims families may you have a life of love and peace. To the family of
Mr.Gardener may you have the same. All will be in my prayers. May the Lord lift
you up and give you strength.With sympathy to all,Deborah
StrongUnited States Marine CorpsRetired
I can see putting those who torture and brutalize to death - Ted Bundy. Charlie
Manso, etc... But for all others (including Gardner) I don't see the
justifiication for the death penalty. Life in prision without parole in a maxium
- no frills - prision would be enough. The death penalty is gruesome and inhuman
and should only be reserved for the worst of the worst. Gardner is a murderer
and the pain he has caused the victims familes will never be quenched but did he
torture his victims .. no.
Just the agony on his daughter's face is enough for me. I allready opposed the
death penalty on the bases of our legal system being corrupt but his daughter
hadn't done anything wrong.For her to have her first hug from her
father since she was 3 the same day he would be killed is just a crime against
her.What did she do to deserve that? I'm sure she understood why he
had to be in jail but her agony now came from Utah's sense of unholy vengence.
If you support the death penalty you are a killer as well.And you
can't really be a christian and support the killing of repentant sinners as a
When I have looked at the photo of the execution chair, I, like someone else who
commented here, can plainly see that the marksmanship of those who executed
Ronnie Lee Gardner was far from perfect - far from even "good." At 17 feet
distance, ANYone should be able to hit a 2 x 2 inch target. I think I could
have hit it by throwing a rock. Rest in Peace to ALL the victims - Ronnie Lee
Screwdriver,I'm not sure it is all as simple as that. Is his
daughter's life harder because of his choices? Yes, but that isn't unusual.
Often choices made by parents harm children. From her perspective, is it
different for him to be jailed versus dead? I don't know. I will leave that up
to her.Ultimately, I don't think killing as punishment is a
particularly problematic approach to dealing with criminals. I do think those
who pass judgment should also execute but that is a different question.
I'd much rather face a firing squad than be locked in a cell 24/7 knowing that's
where I'm going to die of old age. That would be the worst punishment I can