Comments about ‘Brad Rock: Size does matter in a conference’

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Published: Tuesday, June 15 2010 11:00 p.m. MDT

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Utah will go PAC. The big question: why? The reason(s) for expansion: MONEY? Add athletics, and even academics. A BIGGER WHY??

BYU will always bring more MONEY than Utah! BYU has filled its 65,000 capacity most of the last 30 years. Utah has trouble filling its recently expanded 45,000--unless playing BYU! At UCLA, 40% of the fans were BYU fans. Same thing at Washington. In PAC country, that will always be the case. That won't happen EVER with Utah, let alone every game!

Utah Football was non-existent until Urban and a BYU PLAYER decided to coach there. Still, BYU controls the last 5 years!

Same TV market? Are you kidding?! BYU will always pull more viewers even in Utah. But, BYU has 7 Million North American Mormons! The BYU potential TV audience is one of the nation's largest. Utah will NEVER compete with MONEY.

BYU: 30 years of a nationally recognized program, national championship, heisman, NFL MVPs, better facilities. Director's Cup #26.

Utah: Women's gymnastics, and a few years of football. Director's Cup #57.

BYU undergrad, Business, Law superior.

So WHY?? PAC-10 Bigotry. PERIOD.


Rock just made the perfect argument why Utah will NEVER be invited to the PAC 10,

it accomplishes NOTHING that the PAC wants to acomplish by expanding.

A couple of good years in football or basketball during the last decade, does not change the fact they are still utah.

Wiley Old School

We're sorry you're hurting so bad. If Utah does land the PAC bid and BYU doesn't find a BCS conference within a couple of years, the money and athletics will quickly swing in Utah's favor. (Average high school GPA, the main factor in educational superiority claims, will always favor BYU due to supply constraints and high-demand from non-Utah mormons but even academic comparisons will be impacted by a PAC-10 move.)

Within five years, if BYU remains on the outside, almost all local elite athletes will be choosing Utah over BYU given the prospects of competing at a higher level (as will many regional mormons who will choose Utah because it is a PAC school that knows how to manage the mission cycle). There will be a smaller and smaller number of elite athletes who will choose BYU purely because of religious affiliation. BYU will then be competing with USU for the next tier of local athletes.

For BYU's sake, they'd better hope that a Big 12 offer comes soon or that the MWC, without Utah, somehow gets an automatic BCS bid.

Wayne Rout

We are in an age where political bias and correctness destorys all logic. The radical liberals that control the typical college college administration won't ever allow a school with the values and goals of BYU to join with them. Going independent is not practical for BYU. I see no change coming that can be positive for BYU. TCU to the Big 12...a sure thing. Utah to the PAC, probably. The success of the MWC in the last few years will be taken away by the stroke of a pen.

What's up?

Bostonblue, Academics,=undergraduate, non research university level, no academic freedom. you said it all!


I'm a BYU fan, but I'll be the first to admit that Utah's athletic program has done pretty well in the past ten years. The Pac 10 is a good fit for Utah - I'm not sure comparing Utah's qualities with BYU's qualities works, since the Pac 10 was never going to take BYU, even if BYU had won, much less been to, multiple BCS games. BYU could have won the national championship last year and the Pac 10 would have still given them no consideration. Maybe the Big 12, but no the Pac 10. It may be bigotry, but don't disparage Utah because the Pac 10 is at fault.
Congrats to Utah! I'm not a Utah man, but I'll cheer for them to beat every Pac 10 team.


The liberal open mindedness of the PAC 10 includes everything but mormons....hypocracy and bigotry at its best

Y Grad / Y Dad

Ah, Wiley Old School, you have made at least one glaring assumption. Utah may or may not perform as well in the PAC as they have in the MWC. A Utah team consistently competing for a chance to be the 4th/5th place team in the PAC is not somehow more attractive than was a Utah team consistently competing for the MWC championship.

And let's be honest, you weren't consistently competing for the MWC championship.


Yoot fan:
How does it feel to be chosen by default?

Kinda like picking teams for flag football and waiting for someone to point at you. You finally get picked then look around and realize, you're all that's left.



Just because you don't like someone doesn't make you a bigot. I don't like Ute fans that poor beer and spit on women but it doesn't make me a bigot. The Pac-10 may just not like to deal with people who base their actions and morality on traditional christian beliefs. Most people like to hang out with people with similar beliefs and interests.

My bet is that Utah gets an invite to the pac-10 because the pac-10 needs a 12th member. Does Utah make the pac-10 better - no way. Will Utah make the other 11 members richer - no way. Utah just makes # 12. I think Utah will do fine in the pac-10 but will go to fewer bcs games in the pac10 than they have in the MWC. If they stay in the MWC, they will go to fewer bcs games anyway. They were lucky to get 2 and with BSU in the mix, it won't get any easier.


When such traumatic events occur I would truly suggest all you Kewg fans seek professional help. Mentally and emotionally you’re in a very unstable spot. Help lines are just a call away.

BYU Student

While it's true that the U is like the last kid picked for soccer at recess (for going to the Pac-X), at least they're getting picked. I can see some valid points - they'll make 10 times as much money, play elite schools every year and eventually start to gain a real advantage in recruiting. And I think that's fair - they deserve it if they're in a conference like that. But I still don't think BYU will be left behind forever. We will probably be a BCS team in the next 5 years. Still, I'd prefer no BCS and to have a playoff. But I'll keep dreaming.


Throughout this whole ordeal and all the speculation about 16-team superconferences, I've been wondering why no one in the national media has brought up the lessons of the old WAC. True, as Rock points out, teams like San Jose State and Rice aren't as widely beloved and followed as teams like USC and Texas, but the old WAC proved to be a logistical disaster and only lasted a couple of years before the MWC teams bolted to form a new conference. Even with giant TV contracts, it would have been interesting to see how long a Pac-16 or 16-team Big Ten would have lasted before it imploded under its own weight.


You don't get the Utah market by adding Utah to the Pac-10. A super majority of Utahns are BYU fans.

Wiley Old School

To Y Grad / Y Dad:

If you're implying that I've made the assumption that Utah will consistently be a top 1-2 team in the PAC, then you are incorrect.... I do not assume that at all. The PAC will be a much tougher league and therefore Utah will see many more 4th/5th place finishes than they would by remaining in the MWC.

It is your assumption that I would challenge. I think most elite athletes would still choose Utah over a MWC school. For one thing, that 4th/5th place PAC finish would at minimum earn a bid to the Las Vegas Bowl, and in most situations a better bowl. Sad but true that the PAC downside is greater than or equal to the MWC upside.

A few elite athletes would select BYU (or BSU, etc.) but the trend would start to favor Utah substantially.

And then there's the coaching ranks... Utah becomes much more viable as a destination option for high performing coaches.

The deal's not done yet but if BYU remains non-BCS, it will hurt them. Reverse would be true if BYU goes BIG12 while Utah stayed MWC.


San Diego State vs Utah. Is the PAC 10 compelled by TV market (SDSU), or only available choice for a regional twin with CU (Utah)? We'll see.

Wiley Old School

If Utah goes PAC and BYU remains non-BCS after five years, you'll be amazed how the Utah bandwagon grows, especially if Utah has one great year during that stretch (a couple of seasons from now when Wynn is a senior and while USC is still hamstrung could be a great opportunity).

Locals who are not BYU alums will be more inclined to support the "major league" team. (In Utah County, are there more Jazz fans or Flash fans?) There will always be a solid core of BYU fans but the dynamics will change, a bit similar to they way USU is regarded today vs. Utah/BYU in the MWC.


get real folks---you can watch both teams


Coaches over conferences.

Florida with Spurrier, NC, without, ouch!, with Meyer, NC.

Utah with Majeras, Finals, without, crickets, crickets, crickets

Utah with a, b, c, d coaches, nada, with McBride, very good, with Meyer, Whit, very, very good and sometimes great.

BYU before LaVell, ONE good year, Lavell, very good to great, Crowton (hide heads in shame), Bronco, very good.

It is improbable, even with Whit, that the Utes will be in contention in the PAC as often as in the MWC, although the "South" division is one they can compete in. It is the big--fish-little-pond or little-fish-big-pond question.


Utah have a nice time in hippie land.

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