The PAC 10 (and the rest of the BcS conferences) does not want to see the MWC
land an automatic bid into their club. This would effectively "steal" a
potential at-large bid away from them. By expanding to 12 teams and adding a
football conference championship game, the PAC 10 increases their chances of
landing an at-large bid ... that is if the MWC does it take it first with AQ
status.The best way to land a potential at-large BcS bid is to
expand to 12 teams and make certain the MWC doesn't reach AQ status.The solution? Invite Utah into the PAC 10 and kill two birds with one stone.
Utah certainly will accept if invited to the PAC 11. The Utes should be
reasonably competitive, although the experience of the Arizona schools suggests
that losses will far more frequent, and championships far more infrequent, than
in the MWC. If Utah joins the PAC 11, it will be interesting to see whether BYU
begins to lose more LDS recruits to Utah. Certainly Utah's recruiting should be
improved in its target markets of Texas and California.It also will
be interesting to see what happens to the BYU-Utah rivalry. With the conference
switch, the game becomes relatively meaningless to Utah. Given the much more
difficult conference schedule the Utes would face, they may find it to their
advantage to avoid the annual brawl with BYU - a game in which they would have
nothing to gain and much to lose.As ugly as the rivalry has become,
it might be a good thing for both schools to give it a rest.
As a BYU fan I must admit it is hard to take in what is happening. I realize
that in the grand scheme of things football isn't one of the missions of the
church, but to see the storied legacy of the last thrity plus years become an
after thougt is difficult to swallow.Congrats Utah. I would be
lying if I said I wasn't a little gealous.
How long will it take before USC and other big TV market teams demand a deal
similar to UT's where they get the lion share of the conference TV money? How much TV value does WSU have? Pullman has how many people? How about FL or MI or OH? Why would ND even think about joining the Big 10
plus NE? UT just rewrote the TV rules. It is no longer about
creating 4 super conferences. It is about the big TV market teams demanding most
of the money. The conferences are weaker. The teams with the
strongest marketing abilities just got stronger. The power has shifted from the
conferences to teams with the biggest audiences. Those audiences
come from having very large student bodies and from having high national
rankings. It is a catch 22. If you have a high ranking you are
relevant because more people will tune in to see if you lose and drop in the
rankings. They are not routing for you. They are hoping you lose so their
favorite teams can rise. Sports marketing just took a leap forward
thanks to UT. The prestige of the university is based on its ranking.
RE: stevebob'As ugly as the rivalry has become, it might be a good
thing for both schools to give it a rest.'Are you a fan of college
football, or a goodwill ambassador for the UN? No offense, but DANG!Should we end Michigan/Ohio State?Should we end Texas/Oklahoma?Should we end Miami/Florida State?Should we end Alabama/Auburn?No! And we should never end BYU/Utah! It is a fantastic game! Sure, some
hurtful words have been exchanged recently, but that's what is so great! It's a
rivalry! And as a true fan of college football and one who has been following
this rivalry for 25 years, I speak from my heart when I say that I would love to
see Utah go to the PAC 10 and fall flat on their faces! Just make sure you show
up for the big game in November!
I can't help but think the survival of the Big XII spells potential disaster for
the Mountain West Conference. The Pac-10 still wants a 12th school and now that
Texas has declined, that looks to be Utah. The Big XII will want to replace the
Huskers and Buffaloes in order to retain their conference championship game. The
MWC looks ripe for pillaging. Any combination of BYU, Utah, Colorado State or
Air Force leaving the MW for greener ($) pastures, cripples the conference. What
irony if the remaining schools have to reach out to the WAC in order to retain
some semblance of relevance in the FBS division. Things are beginning to get
Sweet...now Utah can finally go to the Vegas Bowl. That is where the 5th place
PAC-10 finisher goes.
Utah will leave and now BYU will trip up yearly against the Broncos and TCU. SO
Maybe we should just let the big schools create a semi-pro leauge and then
college football could have a real playoff system and a championship. I
definitely will not be watching the games though.
Academically, geographically, athletically, and financially: Utah is the best
option.The Pac-10 must go to 12 teams, and that 12th team must be
Utah. It's not wishful thinking, it's simply a total lack of plausible
It would be interesting to see if the Big XII expands. I know that BYU and Air
Force was mentioned as possible teams. Both teams would easily fit in the
Northern Division. But, what about TCU? Would Texas be against another Texas
team in their conference? Personally, I'd love to see BYU & TCU get into the Big
XII, but they'd probably take Air Force over BYU because of the larger Denver
market.Oh the speculation.
Re:Rhyan WWhy on earth would they want Colorado State?The
addition of BSU puts the MWC almost exactly where they were 2 weeks ago in the
quest for a BCS bid(which is pretty darn close).And the Big 12 will
remain at 10 for the forseeable future. A proposal based on a 10-team model is
what saved the conference.
Never said they wanted Colorado State, merely mentioned the Rams by way of
speculation. As for Big XII expansion, don't be naive. They want that title game
and will expand. I expect some duplicity from the Big XII, just the same as we
got from the MWC when they claimed to not be interested in adding Boise just
yet, and then invited them a few weeks later. The Big XII saved itself
yesterday. Now that the big decision has been made, they will focus on the
future. And the future is expansion.
This a very fluid situation however one thing is certain. The MWC will get the
short end of any stick with or without Utah. The U of U is a natural fit for the
PAC-10 both in athletics and academics. The geography is also right but that
does not mean that the PAC-10 will follow logic. As for BYU their athletics is
secondary to its overall mission. The LDS Chruch defines BYU's role not tv deals
or football re-alignments. That being said there is an obviously heavy
anti-mormon school bias in the PAC-10 so they are out. BYU could go east but the
NCAA would have to rule that the BIG 12 has to actually have 12 teams for a
title game and not grant an exemption.
I would hope you are right Rhyan W, but I am going to bet it will be a few years
before the "Big 12" expands. I hope I am wrong, though.
Not so fast. Beebe's proposal is based on keeping the Big 12 at 10 teams, and
the idea that losing Colorado and Nebraska doesn't hurt a TV deal all that
much.Basically, that each team gets a bigger slice of the pie,
having to only split it 10 ways.Sorry to break it to you, but
they're not going to rush out and grab BYU or whoever just to get back to
slicing the pie 12 ways, and play a conference championship game(which to OU and
Texas is just another obstacle to a NC bid).
"Academically, geographically, athletically, and financially: Utah is the best
option."Except...BYU is a higher ranked academic university, is in
the same geographic location as Utah, has better athletic programs, and brings a
larger fan base and more money. So no, you are incorrect. The
correct statement is...Utah is not a private religious school, that is why they
are the best option. Let's not kid ourselves in thinking that Utah has done
anything that BYU hasn't done to earn a BCS conference invite. This is about
religion and everyone knows it.
I truly want to wish the University of Utah well in the Pac 12. And I especially
want to congratulate Utah on the only Conference championship in Men's and
Women's sports combined in the MWC. and what sport would that be well it was
Women's gymnastics.Congratulations to the Utah's gymnastics team for your
attendance at your events you had more people attend your event's than the Men's
Basketball team. That my friends is a true story check it out. What a year to
remember.!!!Now seriously go beat the Pac 12 teams so they know just how
tough the MWC is.
Why is that the Deseret News knows so much about what is happening at schools
and conferences outside of Utah, but so little about what's going on in the
minds of the movers and shakers on Capitol Hill, at the University of Utah and
Brigham Young? Whetever happend to "inside contacts and repretorial enterprise?
I realize that "money talks" but I hope that the long-standing, if unspoken,
"wither thou goest" pact between Utah and BYU is alive and well, even if that
means both remain home (where they fit?) in the MWC.
Utah is gone, who knows what might might happen to TCU? BYU football is
attractive, but the school lack appeal for a lot of reasons for many other big
time programs. A couple years from now it will still be the MWC and the WAC
trying to piece together a conference, just like it has always been.
The so called Big 12 is now in a position to raid and cherry pick the PAC 10 and
the Big 10 with their new contract arrangement with ABC/ESPN and Fox. The Big 10
has it's own conference network, the PAC 10 plans one. However, now
the Big 12 can sit back and wait for the right opportunity to pull in a couple
of big TV market teams who would want their own networks. ABC and Fox paid top
$ to not lose Texas and also have to renegotiate the SEC and ACC contracts if
realignment continued. This dance is not over. However, the big
power brokers are both the big media schools and the big media outlets. The conference networks are at risk now. No big media team will jump to
a conference network. They will either work their own deal or they will jump to
a conference that allows each team its own outlet. The ACC and the
Big East can now follow the Big 12 lead and prevent the Big 10 from raiding them
(for the most part) of their best TV market teams. It also sets a
precedence for the lesser conferences.
Utezone is now reporting that the UofU has given notice to the MWC.
With Utah joining Pac-12, BSU will become BYU's big brothers ?????
Utah would be chasing dollars instead of athletic success in the PAC 10/11/12.
As a die hard BYU fan, it stings a little that Utah will make the jump to the
Pac 10 and leave BYU is a meaningless conference. With the Utes, the MWC had a
chance at becoming a BCS conferece. Without the Utes, it will be very hard.
While the Utes will have a challenging climb to the top of the Pac,
it's the right move for them to go to the pac 10. Congrats, Utes. Hopefully
the rivarly can continue. Maybe the MWC can add Nevada and Fresno
State to make the MWC a little more competitive.
Expansion is not the correct word to use. It was always realignment for more
They don't like the fact that BYU won't play on Sunday. That might be a
handicap for BYU athletics, but it shows character. That's what the school is
Take the Utes.........Please! It would be so nice if BYU never had to play the
Utes again, in any sport. Particularly now when the Ute athletic program has
begun a serious decline. Switching out BSU for Utah means a huge upgrade in MWC
football competition (not to mention overall fan intelligence).
It was a fun little ride having a couple of perfect storm years, busting the
BCS, and being a cinderella team, but with success came pride, and with pride
came arrogance, which will be Utah's downfall.The PAC 10 will come
calling and Utah will greedily accept their return to mediocrity; a bigger
paycheck for finishing in the middle of the PAC.In good years, their
3rd or 4th place finishes in the MWC will now be a 5th or 6th place in the PAC
12.In very good years, their undefeated, conference championship,
BCS busting teams will now be 3rd or 4th place in the PAC 12.Good
years (7-5 or 8-4) = Las Vegas or Poinsettia BowlVery good years
(9-3 or 10-2) = Emerald or Holiday BowlBut at least they'll be
guaranteed a BCS bowl and a trip to the Rose Bowl, IF, they ever win the PAC 12
championship.Be careful what you wish for Utah fans.
"Let's not kid ourselves in thinking that Utah has done anything that BYU hasn't
done to earn a BCS conference invite. This is about religion and everyone knows
it."Spookalo, And your point is?? As far as I can see
you have two options. Root for a mainstream program or bite your tongue and
continue to support a team that be it’s own actions will not be involved
with mainstream athletics.Simple as that.
Texas A&M blew up the Pac-16 which I think would have been a very exciting
league. Plus it would have allowed the MWC to become a very premier conference
with the addition of Baylor. Baylor has been playing better football and their
other sports are really good. Even though TCU didn't want them it would have
been good. Utah has it's head in the clouds. I don't understand
all the hype about the U of U. BYU has much much better facilities, a stronger
fan base and more consistent teams. Aside from the medical school the U of U is
an average academic state school. I'm not a Utah hater I think they have good
football I just do not understand the hype. I guess it would make
sense for BYU and Utah to join the now 10 team Big 12 if they were able. Going
together makes more sense. This leaves out TCU and that bothers me. I would
love to see some loyalty between the MWC teams it would be refreshing.
"BYU is a higher ranked academic university"BYU - a highly ranked
university without a medical school, where science is not an important core
subject, and where data and hard facts play second fiddle to faith and fairy
tales. "Let's not kid ourselves in thinking that Utah has
done anything that BYU hasn't done to earn a BCS conference invite."You really don't think winning 2 BCS games in 5 years was a factor at all?
"Except...BYU is a higher ranked academic university, is in the same geographic
location as Utah, has better athletic programs, and brings a larger fan base and
more money. So no, you are incorrect."It may well be the case that
certain of BYU's academic departments are more highly ranked than their
counterparts at the U. However, the sheer lack of Phd/Doctorate programs at BYU
is a big factor in assessing its academic quality. It this respect, the U is
far stronger and consistent with the sort of academic strength the PAC 10 is
looking for--BYU is not a complete academic institution, as good as it is with
what it does have.
Re: SpokalooThere is obviously religious discrimination involved,
but you'll have to excuse us Ute fans for being a little short on sympathy. My
only suggestion would be to try to cut back on the arrogance.The
difference between Utah and BYU academically is Utah is a major research
institution, BYU is not. As Michael K Young describes it, BYU is based
primarily on undergraduate programs. That's not to say that BYU's undergrad
programs are not very good, if not better, than Utah's. Or that BYU isn't
harder to get in to than Utah, because it is. Its the research that
distinguishes Utah academically.
This is a win win for us Cougars. If Utah goes to the pac10, they will never
see a championship trophy again, except from the opposite side of the field as
Whittingham's son tries to stop people from taking pictures. If the pac10
doesn't extend the invite, then it will be a snub of gigantic proportions,
especially with all of you already planning the celebration. This will be cool
either way.With regards to the "mormon bias" of the pac10, everyone
that cares just needs to take a deep breath. The issue is sort of related, but
it has to do with the Sunday play issue. I strongly doubt that that the pac10
hates BYU because of the mormons, they probably just don't want to rework all of
their schedules for one school...unless someone has insider information that
indicates a true bigotry.
TO: BYU Dude, Marky, any other Sour BYU fan. Keep telling yourself whatever
makes you feel better. I am not so delusional that I think the U will go
dominate the PAC 1(2), but I'm certainly not stupid enough to think that they,
or any other school, would be better off in the MWC.
"I strongly doubt that that the pac10 hates BYU because of the mormons, they
probably just don't want to rework all of their schedules for one
school...unless someone has insider information that indicates a true
bigotry."Dave,If it was Texas who had "no Sunday play"
The PAC10 would have accommodated. Keep trying.
Re: MUSSing with youYou'd be right if it weren't for all factors
pointing to Utah football improving beyond what it currently is. Utah's yearly
payout from their conference will go from 1.5 million to over 15 million. Whit
will be recruiting kids to play in a major conference where they'll actually be
seen on TV. They'll play quality opponents almost each and every week(which is
in fact an advantage, not a disadvantage).They've already got
superior coaching, based on how they've been able to accomplish more with less.
Now imagine what they'll do when they don't have the recruiting disadvantages
that come with playing in the MWC, and when they can pay their head and
assistant coaches much more money.
No Andrew, the Pac-10 does not have a particular anti-mormon bias. It is more of
a secular school vs any private religious school issue. They didn't want Baylor
either.As to realignment, personally I'd love it if all the MWC
schools gave a polite 'No thanks' to any invites from other conferences. I'd
love to see them sputter and fluster over what to do then. What a reality check
it would be if a 'mid-major' turned down their condescending affectations of
superiority! We've made a lot of progress in recent years as a conference, and
have a good thing going. Certainly we've shown that we are much closer
competitively with the Pac-10 than we have ever been before. I know money is the
driving force, but I'd like to preserve our traditional rivalries, and continue
to throw a wrench in any plans the elitist BCS conferences have by not playing
their game whenever we can. Much preferable to my mind to stick together and
break them down on our own terms, instead of vice-versa. Sure, it is
far-fetched, but I can dream.
Don't kid your self Esquire, BYU would also jump at the chance to go to the PAC
10. You're like the pot calling the kettle black.Adding
Colorado/Utah makes sense for the PAC 10 from a TV market share perspective.
These market share number are a few years old but still accurate, making CO/UT
#3 in the PAC 10:6.4% SoCal (USC, UCLA)4.1% NorCal (Cal,
Stanford)2.5% CO/UT2.1% WA2.1% AZ1.3% OR18.5%
MUSSing with U | 7:22 a.m. June 15, 2010 Your penchant for fortune
telling is, without a doubt, one of the most entertaining yet bizarre behaviors
on the DN sports boards. Good luck with that in your future...whatever you
think it is.
spokaloo|2:03 a.m. June 15, 2010You also forget that BYU is sited
for lack of academic freedom by AAUP and Utah is not. In fact even a school
like Oral Roberts University didn't make the list.
Adding BYU to the PAC would represent a bigger increase for the conference's
revenue imo. Adding Utah because it is an institution more closely aligned
academically is fine, but makes no sense if this decision is about $$$. If the
PAC 10 wants more $, they should add BYU.
Arrogance & Jealosy. That's what I read here. Arrogance and Jealosy. Sad
Well - if the U gets invited to the PAC, more power to them. Best Wishes.BYU hasn't proven itself in many big games for the last 20 years, it was
in their control to do so and if they haven't made themselves a compelling
choice - so be it. I still love my Cougars, still love the U-BYU rivalry and
they'll both still be playing somewhere on any given weekend. No loss anywhere.
DaveKnowsWhatsUp | 8:01 a.m. June 15, 2010 "If the pac10 doesn't
extend the invite, then it will be a snub of gigantic proportions, especially
with all of you already planning the celebration."Don't forget to
include the media that's helping to gin up the talk.Also, you fail
to see that IF (and it's a BIG IF) Utah is invited to the PAC it will be a huge
bonus for the Ute faithful. Why? Not only will we no longer have to deal with
BYU and it's delusional fans but Provo Utah will immediately be put on a suicide
I'll start by being hopeful. I hope the Utes stay put. With Boise in the mix,
you have 4 teams that can be in the top 25. Then you can have the New Mexicos,
Wyomings, and Air Force, that can have a guest appearence at times. That can
only stengthen the conference. That can set us up for some better deals along
the way, including BCS. Plus, it is easier to split the money 10 ways, then 16.
I know I don't watch the PAC 10 on a regular basis, so they won't be getting my
money anyway. You also have to look at the basketball program to. You can have
NM, LV, Utah, BYU, and another school step up for tournament play. If Utah
goes, I do think that BYU will jump to. I don't know how long people can defy
logic. A 65,000+ seat stadium, and a hungry audiennce, it won't be long, before
they are asked. Then watch out for them to, because the level of athlete will
improve as well.
@Muss UCleo called she told me to tell you she wants her crystal
ball back. She told me it was you who predicted the Quest t-shirts and airport
celbrations for national title for teams that went 1-1 in Vegas.Again how Utah does will depend on KW developing NFL talent if continues the
current trend Utah wins if not then we lose.
re: SpokalooHow can you be invited into a BCS conference when you've
never even played in a BCS game?
I don't believe the PAC-10 hates BYU because of the "Mormons." After all, I'm
willing to bet that the U has over 50% Mormons currently attending.
This will go down as one of the greatest follies of all time. The PAC-10 had
super agressive plans which had the makings of a super conference with
effectively the best of the big 12 and Colorado (a throw in). Now they are
potentially stuck with Colorado and Utah. As an unbiased observer this is a
brutal blow to a conference already suffering image problems and declining
atheletic performaance. The PAC-10 barely got 2 teams in the basketball tourney
last year. The two programs added will not improve this situation. From a
football perspective Utah is poised to make an immediate impact in a conference
that will be viewed as weaker than the Mtn West. Bottow line is a dream
scenario turned into a nightmare for the PAC-10.
It looks as if the Pac10 will have to settle with Utah. As far as the utes
should be concerned it really doesnt matter HOW you get in, its THAT you get in.
Congrats to ute nation, I would be lying if I said I wasnt a little jealous.
Good luck in the pac12, you guys will be fine and more often than not finish top
3 most years. As a BYU fan, I can only hope for wins against the
teams the Cougars play. Reality is that those wins will come at the expense of
scambuster,Goog point. UofU has more mormons than does BYU. It has
more to do with the uber right wing agenda ( i.e prop 8)
CHA CHING!!!It will be so great to finally be in a conference where
we belong - with the chance to play in the national championship game every
single year. Meanwhile, TDS is going to start each season knowing that the best
it can do is #3 - in the MWC because we all know they won't be beatint TCU or
BSU anytime soon.This is the perfect scenario. Utah now in a real
conference, and now that BSU has joined, the chance of TDS ever sniffing a BCS
game is at 0%!Looking forward to one last MWC crown, a potential
THIRD bcs game, and a .500 year for TDSGO UTES!!
Hey "T-Mac", I would say the same about BYU (except that BYU overall has a
stronger program and would compete better with the PAC 10 in the minor sports).
Don't assume this is an anti-Utah statement. It is a statement about chasing
dollars instead of athletic success. Winning at a small school in a minor sport
is better than losing regularly in a major sport at a big school. Few are the
athletes that end up making money in sports. School should be about preparing
for your future, not about enriching others. Great memories and experiences
come from having success, and that happens at schools that aren't part of the
BCS. This whole mess has lost perspective.
wow. This not fair. I'll be really mad.
Its been said before, but in light of uninformed comments posted here, it bears
repeating just to try and set the record straight:BYU is ranked by
the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching--the rating that so many
of the Pac-? schools are clinging to--as an institution with 'high research
activity'. There is only one higher designation on their scale. Not bad for a
school with an undergraduate emphasis. As anyone who bothers to check can easily
learn, there is plenty of 'hard' research going on at BYU, as evidenced by the
many Ph.Ds offered there: biochemistry, chemical engineering, computer science,
computer engineering, mathematics, microbiology, molecular biology, counseling
psychology, neuroscience, physics, astronomy, developmental biology, psychology,
wildlife conservation, among others. So what. Once upon a time
athletic conference affiliation was about head to head on-the-field competition,
not whose school offers more degrees.
As a Ute fan I have read the comments with interest. It has happened yet and
may not, but coming to this point does surprisingly have a measure of sadness
mixed with elation. Yes the BYU/Utah rivalry gets ugly sometimes. The actions
of many fans two years ago was an embarrassment to true Utah fans. Max Hall's
outburst I suspect was equally embarrassing to true BYU fans. Somehow though,
now that there is a chance that conference realignment may alter or eliminate
that rivalry we both seem to realize what we will be missing. It has been good
and even competition especially in recent years. Having a championship on the
line and perhaps a chance for a prestigious bowl game does make it more
interesting. Still we all know that if Utah get's the nod from the PAC they will
leave just as BYU was packing its bags with it looked like they were going to
Big 12 yesterday. Wouldn't it be nice if we could both go to the same
conference?** sigh **
BYU,Just remember that magic happens when you are living
righteously. Live righteously like Utah and maybe someday you will be able to
leave the MWC behind. Until then, have fun playing UNLV, Wyoming, New Mexico,
Colorado State and Boise. Wow, what a powerhouse conference the MWC is.
I delight in the idea of a Utah vs. BYU bowl game where the only time we see
each other in a given year is for a real slugfest with a national TV audiance. I
hope Utah gets the nod from the PAC 12 and I hope BYU sees them after the
regular season often.
As a BYU fan, I would like to congratulate the Utes for getting the Pac 10
invite. BYU has been trying to get into a better conference for the last 40
years and maybe we will be able to someday. Am I jealous? Yes. Would I like
to see BYU join the Pac 10 instead of Utah? Yes. Am I man enough to
congratulate Utah? Yes.Let's face it. Even if the MWC is granted
AQ status, Utah is much better off going to the Pac 10. Conservatively, Utah
stands to make more than 15 times the amount of money it would make in the MWC.
It's a no brainer.
I think a wait and see approach is best here. I dont think the pac 10 is under
any pressure to add utah, so they may wait. Remember, the big 10 played with
eleve teams for 15 years. The proposed change would not go into effect until
2012, so it could be that the pac 10 will wait until next year, if at all, to
invite utah. The way things are going, I wouldnt be surprised to see anything
happen. Heck, BYU could end up in the SEC and Utah could get demoted to the big
sky for all I know.Several concrete things have happened:1. Colorado is going to the pac 102. Nebraska is going to the big 103. Boise st. is coming to the Mountain West4. ESPN has lost more
credibility every day as this has unfolded, reporting false rumors as truth.
To Hedgehog, "If it was Texas who had "no Sunday play" The PAC10 would have
accommodated. Keep trying." So, are you saying it is a bias against the church,
or is it just you that's a bigot? I was honestly trying to get some of my
fellow Cougs to take the anti-mormon chip off their shoulder.However, you did hit the nail on the head, and that is money, the pac10 would
have sold their own families to get Texas to join.
Re: MUSSDad. Excellent point about the media, their constant drabble is almost
as annoying as talk radio.I will give you that if Utah is invited,
it would be huge for the school, and would be something to be congratulated.
However, I don't think the rest of us would be suicidal because we have never
had hopes of being in the pac10, so we're not losing anything there. And to be
quite honest, I wouldn't feel a huge sense of loss with Utah no longer in the
conference. You would still be up there annoying us, we would still be down
south annoying you, and I am sure there would still be plenty of games scheduled
between the two, so not a whole lot would change.
I would love to see Utah go to the PAC 12 and BYU go to the Big 12 (or whatever
it is). Keep the rivalry alive and enjoy big time college football every week.
Looks like Utah is shoe-in; BYU--here's hoping!
As a BYU fan...its hard to see this happening. Not only are we losing some
traction in the race to become an AQ conference, but our rivals are making a
jump that many of us feel should be ours (BTW, anybody who doesn't think that
BYU was excluded because it is a private, LDS institution needs to stop drinking
the fruit punch. If it were only about money, BYU brings in a lot more revenue
than Utah, and the teams have been about even since the new coaches were
hired).However, I've got to give Utah props for putting themselves
in this situation. They are a strong athletic program with great leadership,
they have an excellent football program that, in some ways, is more prepared for
a jump to an AQ league, and this jump should permanently keep Whittingham at
Utah (which is a good thing).My hope is that Utah's successes will
all be counted towards the MWC getting an AQ bid. I wouldn't put it past the
folks at the BCS to discount all of Utah's success because they are going to
become a Pac-10 team.
By joining the PAC 10, Utah will paint a giant bulls-eye on its jersey. After
ASU and U of A left the WAC, it was especially fun to watch them play on an even
par with BYU, a team they were supposedly superior to.So the Utes
may want to move sooner to get BYU off their schedule. By 2011 BYU football will
be capable of dominating the Utes for at least 3 years straight. Oh . . . shall
we bring up basketball?
Hey Apo Cow,The real sign of class in an institution is not in mocking the
schools that got you where you are. Your rise to recognition was forged on the
field against the likes of "UNLV, Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State, and
Boise," and that rise was primarily in football (and maybe gymnastics).
Remember that you have to play the PAC 12 teams in all sports. And since your
score was 15.5 to BYU's 45.5 in the Deseret First Duel this year, maybe your
entry into the PAC 12 should come with a measure of gratitude for those who
prepared you, and a measure of humility for what you are about to experience.
Wow, talk about little brother syndrome -and hypocritical as well. On one hand
you say how sorry the PAC11 is and how much better the MWC is and then you
follow-up on how Utah will not succeed in the PAC11.The reality is
that Utah can and will be very competitive in PAC12 football and basketball (in
due time). What’s really going to be interesting to see in the next 5-10
years is the massive disparity between Utah and BYU (both academically and
athletically). It’s great to be a UTE!!!!!
Texas and the Big 12 regret going to Sunday-play being in the heart of the bible
belt. Now would be a great time to revert by inviting TCU and BYU to join.Meanwhile Utah can enjoy the hedonistic left coast...
@ desertratShow some class. We dont even know what is going to
happen. just calm down and dont let your jealousy consume you.
Just one thing to consider about the rivalry IF Utah goes, and I think they
will. It doesn't have to change the intensity of the rivalry one bit. Florida
and Florida St play every single year, they are not in the same conference, and
that is ONE INTENSE RIVALRY. I just moved to Florida a few months ago, and
those two teams HATE each other. Personally, I'd love to see TCU,
BSU, BYU and AF join the Big 12 to make it the Big 14. It would give that
conference a little more Texas coverage, all of Idaho, Utah and Denver, as well
as the Mormon and Air Force populations, which are all over the country. Those
markets don't generalize to segments like ND doesn't either. Not as powerful as
ND, but they don't generalize like ND.As for our rivalry, it remains
in tact, and we still play every year, last game of the year as always. Nothing
changes, but our conference prides will be on the line as well.
The PAC-10 is not religiously biased against BYU but Cal and Stanford most
definitely are, especially following the prop 8 wake.
Let me get this straight: The PAC-10 is looking to expand but
bypasses a natural fit for league expansion in Utah & BYU. The Y is apparently
not a good fit as a private LDS university and Utah, by association with the LDS
state, isn't favored either. The PAC-10 turns to the Big-12 instead. All of the Big-12 schools in Texas are invited except Baylor (a private
Baptist university). Powerbrokers in Texas begin lobbying to get Baylor
included in the deal instead of CU. The PAC-10, confident it had Texas & Co. in
the bag, finds the religiously affiliated Baylor so unacceptable that it
pre-emptively extends an invitation to CU, hoping to cut off any further
discussion about adding Baylor. Ultimately, Texas & Co decide they
are happier where they are and the PAC-10 is stuck with underachieving Colorado.
Begrudgingly, they appear now on the verge of extending an invitation to the U
after all... and Ute fans are excited about this?Good luck, Utah. I
am not sure you are as good a fit for the PAC-12 as you seem to want to believe.
I wish you were staying in the new MWC.
What if its to be a Pac 14 with more than just the Utes: Utah, BYU, and SDSU.
Stay in MWC utah and BYU..For heavens sake the confrance is getting better each
year..More exposure and more reconization for the great confrance it is..With
all the shake up and changes The MWC has even a better potional for
exposure..Boie state is on board.Invite arizon or arizona state in anwe would
really have a go at the big boys from back east or the snobs on the west coast.
"However, you did hit the nail on the head, and that is money, the pac10 would
have sold their own families to get Texas to join."Dave,Yes, my point is power conferences will take a strictly business approach when
selecting the most attractive partner. Some positive can outweigh negatives. The
PAC10 would jump at the chance to take a national brand like ND even with the
religious connotations.BYU simply doesn’t have strong enough
positives to override the all the negatives. If BYU was in a bigger market or
had a better national brand the religious aspect would be easier to ignore.
Sorry Kewgs, it’s business, and bragging about winning a lot on MWC games
and batting .500 in the MACO bowl just doesn’t tip the scales.Utah would not be in PAC10 discussions if they had not gone to and won two BCS
bowl games. The NATIONAL recognition generated by the BCS games propelled them
above BYU as the team of choice for the state of Utah. Without those wins Utah
(along with BYU) would have been ignored.
Snark, your argument holds up great, if the 2009-2010 school year was the only
year utah had ever competed in athletics. Too bad its not. Just about every
team should be better this year and in the future.
Miracles Happen !Whine and Pout, the cougs got left out . . ."I thought we were God's University?"
U shouldn't sell out. Stay in the MWC & make it stronger. We can see that the
big 12 is getting weaker & PAC-10 is looking to make itself relevant. Don't help
If Utah goes to the PAC I will be sad for the MWC and the Holy War, though happy
for Utah. I expect they will have several mediocre years as they adjust to the
week to week grind but in time I think they will excell. The real
loss will be the value of Utah and BYU hammering it out in-state. So what if BYU
goes to the Big-12, maybe. Its neat to have Texas come here every other year, or
USC to Utah but seriously...who cares! The highlight of my year is watching BYU
and Utah scratch it out in November. Football is about character, team work,
etc. I understand business drives this but in the end it is the competition on
the field that drives me. If Utah is invited and goes, congrats.
They are a class school, program and people (minus their economics department,
another story.)I hope it doesn't happen. And in any case, go BYU!
The reason why the Pac 10 wants Utah over BYU I think is fairly obvious. If it
was about money BYU obviously has more draw, so it’s not about money.
It’s the fact that everything BYU teaches is taught through an LDS
lens.BYU’s version of truth is different than the Pac 10's.The Pac 10 wants to maintain its free thinking reputation and adding an
institution that places a higher precedent on religious philosophy than the
search of secular knowledge goes against that.I don’t think
this is religious persecution, it’s just that the Pac 10 believes that
adding an institution with an obvious religious bias goes against their
USA Today just announced that Utah has "officially given the MWC notice of
intent to leave".BYU Fans, I would like to sing you my favorite
song. Na, na, na, na, Hey, Hey, Hey, Goodbye. Na, na, na, na, Hey, Hey, Hey,
show some class old ute, we dont know anything about what will happen
"Xpat | 9:04 a.m. June 15, 2010 BYU, TCU, SMU, ND, Baylor, AFA, Army, and
Navy should form the Church and Military conference, the Christian Soldiers'
Conference (CSC)!"This was an off the wall suggestion I had way back
in the imploding 16 team WAC days - But I called it the "God and Country"
conference. Don't forget Boston College as a top FBS private religious school
as well.I'll be happy where ever BYU ends up if they can negotiate
their own network like TX. They can already leverage KBYU/BYUTV. If I can see
every game in my home/ward meeting house again I'll be happy. That
said with the TX TV deal - ND may be interested in the Big 12 since it appears
they'd be allowed to keep their NBC contract all to themselves.
So you r saying just because a school plays on Sunday they have no character?
NO! It's just your school that has those rules because it's part of YOUR
religion. Don't blast off on other schools because they do.
@DaveKnowsWhatsUp | 9:44 a.m. June 15, 2010 Well said...I couldn't
agree more. Folks on both sides of the rivalry are talking like
this is a done deal...it isn't. The University of Utah has taken a
no comment approach and we should all follow suit...just wait and see.
apo cow, as much as I want it to be true, the source is utezone, which is a load
of garbage. just be patient.
Why so excited, Utah?Look, if the PAC-10 (11) really, really wanted
Utah, it would have invited them when it invited Colorado. Get the conference
to 12 schools and then work on the TX/OK expansion. The fact that it went to
Texas first should tell you something.Now, Utah will probably get an
invite--the PAC-11 doesn't make much sense, does it? Utah is probably the only
logical choice at this point. Okay athletics and good enough academics. But this won't be about Utah's "academic" fit with the other schools.
The PAC-11 was very willing to take both Texas Tech and OK State, both of whom
are classified as "High Research" schools (not "Very High Research") and are
clearly inferior universities to the rest of the PAC-11 (and Utah).Academically, Utah fits with the bottom 3-4 schools of the PAC-10.
Athletically, about the same. Pretty solid (and potentially very good) in
football, obviously great in w. gymnastics, but after that, what?I
would imagine that there is some handwringing in the PAC-11 offices now. Will
they invite Utah? Probably, but clearly a default (and third) choice.
If Utah leaves then we'll all be better off. MWC loses an also-ran team in most
sports. Utah gains TV exposure to another conference. BYU remains top dog in
their conference. Boise State replaces Utah as the next best football team in
the conference. Utah drops to Arizona State-like depths in a deep conference.
Utah basketball continues to suffer in a stronger basketball conference.What's not to love here?
Utah deserves to go to the PAC10. Two BSC bowl wins in Football proves them. I
would think that losing Utah would really leave BYU out in the cold. I would
think that the BIG 12 would look to invite TCU and BYU to bring them back to 12
I went to Utah for a while, a lot of good people, but so much hate there against
Mormons and BYU that I think it would be good for them to go.
Sorry to rain on your parade, Utah fans, but things won't be quite as "ROSE"y in
the PAC 12 as some of you seem to think.The one thing the PAC 12
will give Utah is more money and a better bowl, regardless of how mediocre Utah
may become.Utah will be on FoxSports, which means more television
access, but look for most of Utah's nationally televised games to be late
Saturday night when most of the fans in the east will be gone before
halftime.The PAC 10 adding Colorado and Utah isn't going to change
the lack of interest that fans in the east already have for teams on the west
re: 42istheanswerLets see, stay in the MWC and get the $1.2 million
from the terrible MTN TV deal, or join the Pac-12 and get an estimated $12-$15
million per year from TV contracts. You give KWhit Pac-12 money and
resources, and just watch him keep doing what he does, win.
This next season Utah will be the most hated team in the MWC rather than BYU.
(at least for one year, then it will go back to BYU) BSU, BYU, and TCU will
probably take turns each year going to a BCS game. Eventually a college
football playoff will be here and the MWC will have an automatic bid. Will Utah
eventually regret going to the PAC-12?By the Way the PAC10 is
basically on record as saying they dont want religious schools. They didn't
want Baylor and they dont want BYU. They are an open minded conference. As
long as you dont have views they dont approve of. When did open minded mean
"You give KWhit Pac-12 money and resources, and just watch him keep doing what
he does..."lose to PAC 12 teams instead of MWC teams.
no offense to anyone, but those who are saying that utah is a
football/gymnastics school and everything else is awful is extremely ignorant.
Womens basketball is a perenial power, volleyball is routinely at the top, ditto
for soccer. track isnt very good, but baseball is coming around. Add to that
the growth that is sure to come this year in mens bball, and you have a very
solid athletic program. just my two cents, but i think some of you are letting
your jealousy get in the way of rational thinking.
It would be hilarious to have the:PAC 11 (Colorado brought so much
to the table)At least all the west coast fans could see the
top of the Rocky Mountains on the fly overs.
"Lets see, stay in the MWC and get the $1.2 million from the terrible MTN TV
deal, or join the Pac-12 and get an estimated $12-$15 million per year from TV
contracts."#1. Get invited.#2. Gloat from there.You Ute fans look so classless and silly.You're storming the field
in the third quarter.
Now that the MWC has Boise St. in the mix, we have ourselves a nice little
conference, and for Utah to even accept a Pac-10 invite would be insulting,
considering that they [Pac-10] wanted teams out of the Big 12. Utah shouldn't
play second banana to anyone.I don't like it and I hope Utah stays
in the MWC.As for the crying about BYU not getting invited because
of religious factors, all I can say is... you have pigeon holed yourselve in
that respect. If it's true... that's disgraceful for the Pac-10. ... then again, 5 Las Vegas Bowls doesn't really make anyone notice,
unless of course your from Provo.
@Johnny Triumph | 10:50 a.m. June 15, 2010 "BYU remains top dog in
their conference. Boise State replaces Utah as the next best football team in
the conference."Good one, Johnny. You are making an attempt at a
joke here, right?First: you failed to account for TCU...Second: You refuse to admit that BSU isn't going to lay down in front of the
bus for BYU, and they will beat the Cougars...probably consistently. Whether Utah leaves the MWC or not, the one thing that has become clear over
the last couple of weeks is that no one, and I mean NO ONE, thinks as highly of
BYU as BYU fans think of themselves.For that fact alone, the journey
the last couple of weeks has been well worth the ride.
Buster, come on man, youre better than that. Dont get frustrated so easily.
Show some class
I hope that Utah moving to the PAC will be the catalyst that will be the demise
of the BYU football program. I say that as a lifelong BYU fan, who has come to
realize that there are more important things in life than football. The BYU
football program is a symbol of the competitive nature of the LDS people in Utah
that has begun to go too far. You see it within wards, among students at BYU,
and in sports: Good LDS people who get so caught up in trying to be perfect that
they get so competitive and start treating others like garbage, so that they can
appear to be superior and thus feel better about themselves. Ending BYU's
football program and the silly rivalry with Utah would go a long way to remedy
this enormous pride that has gradually crept in to the church. Letting go of BYU
football would have a huge positive impact on individuals who currently take it
way too seriously. Give up your pride, and let the U have their football.
It amazes me how much vitriol the Y-ner fans are spewing over Utah's pending
promotion to the "big dance".Its not even a little brother syndrome
anymore. Its more like a "little sister complex". "We are more
deserving, why don't they like us?" Then the religious persecution excuse comes
out as a rationalization against the denial of the Y program. Pac10 hates
Mormons. And so on.Hello? Utah Utes are full of Mormons too! The
head coach of Utah football is a Mormon. I don't think religious affiliation is
the main problem. Here are the facts:Utah is close to
transportation hub. SLC airport. Easy in and out. BYU is still an hour away from
the airport via the ground. Get airlines to fly into the airport in Provo then
we'll talk big leagues.Major research institution. Utah has world
class cancer clinic and medical school. And full complement of grad school
offerings and research.BYU has too many grade inflated "Mrs. Degree"
seekers. Dating and marriage classes and mandatory religious credits scream
"inflated gpas" per student. Granted BYU does have some legit programs, like
law, engineering etc.Two BCS bowl wins, nuff said.
Texas turns down PAC10 making them look stupid. The ultimate now would be for
Utah to turn them down and tell them they feel the MWC has a brighter future.
That would be great. They could also add they dont feel the PAC10 lives up to
their academic standards. Utah would be my favorite team if they did that
(which of course they wont, but still it would be awesome).
"unless of course your from Provo."Let me rephase that, " unless of
course your a Cougar fan." Whoops!
A few more reasons why Utah was selected.We had scheduled over the
last 10-15 years numerous home and home dates versus PAC10 opponents like CAL,
Stanford, Oregon, and UCLA.While BYU was scheduling Eastern
Washington, Northern Iowa and Tulane.Now when you want to join the
in crowd/PAC10/BCS Conferences doesn't it make sense to get to know the in
crowd/PAC10/BCS Conferences first?Come on little sister... we'll
dance with you for the next few years. After that you need to stand on your
Chris Hill: We will not be responding... This response should in no way be
considered a response, we are only responding to say we aren't responding
because we won't respond. Just keep the story alive so the Pac-11 knows we have
a following. We just don't want to have to respond anytime after this response
to say that we haven't responded. Don't respond to this.
What happened to the so called classy cougar fan?. I thought BYU fan carried
themselves with grace and dignity. I guess it’s like a two year old child,
let them tire themselves out with a tantrum and give them a juice box.
Buster | 11:23 a.m. June 15, 2010 #1. Get invited.#2. Gloat
from there.You Ute fans look so classless and silly.You're storming the field in the third quarter.----------------------Says a Zoob wearing his "Quest for
It was hilarious watching BYU fan gloat yesterday they were in the Big 12 only
to have it dashed after all that classy grandstanding. You were like the kid
who stood up to pick up an award as they announced someone else's name.
re: IndependentA whole lot of truth in your analysis. Football
season and even the off-season used to be fun-full of speculation and
good-natured ribbing between Ute and Cougar fans.Unfortunately, ever
since the advent of these anonymous internet forums-this rivalry has because
full of hatred, venom, dishonesty, pettiness, rancor, delusions, and hatred (did
I already mention that?). Anything goes and you can same anything that comes to
your mind-be it true or not. And it equally applies to both sides of the fence.
Both full of themselves and a false sense of pride.Perhaps it truly
is time for BYU to go the way of Ricks and cease all intercollegiate
athletics...I hate even the thought, but it may be the best thing
that could ever happen to the church. No more houses divided. On the other
hand, maybe I am totally off-base and a bit of competition and rivalry is good
for the soul.
Doesn't seem like the PAC 11 are in any hurry to invite Utah. Meanwhile, I maintain that if the PAC 11 wants more $$, BYU is a better
choice. BYU brings better attendance and more television sets.So is
it about $$ or not?
I hope this gets resolved soon. I am tired of all this speculation.
Hey, "Quest for Perfection" t-shirt zoob: I know that it isn't official,
however, everything that I have been hearing is that the Utes will get an invite
to the PAC-10. It is just nice that a lot of folks outside of Utah are talking
about the Utes in a positive way concering how nice a fit they will be in the
conference. Rewind to the 1980s. All that we Ute fans heard from
Coug fans was "BYU to the PAC-10, BYU to the PAC-10, BYU to the PAC-10,
etc.,etc." Of course the only ones that were saying it were Coug fans. I never
heard anything from the PAC-10 schools about how much they wanted BYU to
join.So it is nice to gloat a little about this possible new and
improved situation for Utah especially when the attitude toward Utah over the
last three to four decades has been rather condesending towards us.
Just watching ESPN's winners and losers:Utah: Winners because they
are probably going to the PAC 10PAC 10 - Losers because Utah is
probably going to the PAC 10?
This all boils down to one thing:Utah - 2 BCS wins with many to come
in the near future, possibly a 3rd this year.Cewgs - 0 BCS wins, and
now realizing the highest they'll ever be in the foreseeable future is #3 - IN
THE MOUNTAIN WEST!!!GO UTES AND ANYONE WHO BEATS UP TDS
What’s even more delicious is that for the past two weeks we’ve not
seen a single relevant BYU sports article. It’s the Utes 24/7.THEE University of Utah!!
Why must the MWC shoot itself in the foot.With Boise State, TCU,
Utah, and BYU holding tight together, with a strong Air force fighting to become
one of the powerhouses of the conference, why must we make changes now?Automatic Qualfier to the BCS is at hand with all said teams and their
accomplishmnents in place if they all stay in the MWC. They could all remain
power houses in the MWC.If teams leave, like BYU to the Big 12 and
like Utah leaving for the Pac 12, we are playing into the hands of hose that
would like to delay allowing the MWC into the AQ BCS.Besides, could
teams like the BYU be as successful in the Big 12, if each year they had to play
againstTexas Longhorn, Oklahoma Sooners, or the others, or would Utah be
as successful in the Pac 10 playing against USC and the rest of the Pac 10. I
wish so for both schools, but I doubt it.Utah, do like the
powerhouses of the Big 12 and stay put in your own conference. Have patience,
and be glad you did. Just do it. Stay.
Of course not alterego, why would they be in any hurry? Utah is always going to
be there. The proposed realignment would not take place until 2012, so there is
no rush. As far as your other questions, I guess you have been asleep for the
last several months. The answers to your questions have been discussed over and
The PAC is being suspiciously quiet today. I wonder what they have up their
sleeve. Given the fact that their master plan of stealing away half of the big
12 failed, and they are now looking at a consolation prize, I almost wonder if
they won't try something else to give them the super conference they were
dreaming of, even if it means stretching their own criteria a bit. They tried to
eliminate their competition in the Big 12 by inviting half of them in. The MWC
is looking more and more like a legitimate challenger to the PAC, especially
with the addition of BSU. They could get their super conference and stifle the
competition by adding 3 to 5 MWC schools who fit in nicely geographically with
the rest of the PAC.
Alterego,"Meanwhile, I maintain that if the PAC 11 wants more $$,
BYU is a better choice. BYU brings better attendance and more television
sets."Let it go Altergo, Let it go...
i guess this is all related to football and the PAC 10's hopes to freeze out the
MWC as an automatic BCS qualifier since football is the money sport. Another way
to look at the bigger picture, though, is who has the best total package to
bring to the PAC 10. The Sears Cup, which measures which NCAA schools have the
best all around sports programs, shows Stanford at #1, UCLA #7, Cal #11, USC
#12, Washington #28, Oregon #30, Arizona #32, ASU #33, BYU #34, UNM #35 and TCU
#41. Utah isn't even in the top 50. Utes sports aren't that hot -men's
baskeball 6th, baseball 6th, women bball 4th,football 3rd, mens golf 9th,
women's golf (no team), women's soccer 3rd, softball 5th our of 6,mens swiiming
5th our of 6, women's swimming 6th,mens tennis 5th, women's tennis 1st, women's
volleyball 4th. It becomes obvious that the PAC 10 is really inviting the Utes
for their powerful women's tennis and gymnastics teams - otherwise, the Utes are
going to get schooled in the PAC-10. Get used to the 4 and 5 loss football
Chris B... who is the perennial third place team in the MWC with the occasional
hiccup again? I'll give you one hint. It isn't BYU. =)
re: WldflwrMedia sources indicate that PAC-10 commish Larry Scott
is having nightmares about what could've been and about the leftovers he has
ended up with:"Had a bad day: Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott went
from the verge of having the nation's first super conference to likely having to
offer invitation to Utah just to get the Pac-10 to 12 schools. Imagine that. One
day you think you're adding Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma
State, the next you're reduced to offering an invitation to the school Urban
Meyer left for Florida. I'm not sure if Larry Scott drinks. But if he does, he
probably is right now. Or at least he should be."Oh well, you roll
the dice and you win some and you lose some and this one the PAC-10 lost big
time.re: Chris B/hedgehogPlease cease the delusions
about another Utah BCS run. BYU will have several BCS games before Utah ever
gets another sniff. In spite of your hatred for BYU, we want to take this
opportunity to wish the Utes the very best and root for you in the PAC10.
homers, that is taking into account the current year. And yes, utah was down
this year. But sports across the board were relying on underclassmen. dont
worry about us, we are going to be just fine. thanks for the concern though.
Oklahoma Coug: an anonymous blog is not a legit "media source"
re: Big BenBYU has always been ranked much higher than Utah in the
Sears Cup standings. Is it any wonder since the Cougars have won 137+
combined conference championships since the inception of the Mountain West-while
the mighty, mighty Utes have only won around 40? Utah down this year-how about
every year compared to their counterparts in Provo?
@Homers,Once again let's re-learn what it means to be a collegiate
conference member. Its more than just athletics. There are numerous
prerequisites that must be met before being invited into a conference.Remember that word? Prerequisites? Its the word that told you what classes you
needed to take a from a particular department or college in order to graduate
from said college.Academically overall, not just looking at a few
select undergraduate disciplines, the U of Utah is superior to BYU. There are
rich and diverse graduate level programs and research projects at the U. The U
has a top notch medical school and cancer clinic. The U is a school
devoted to many of the same traditions as other PAC10 members. Academic
excellence, gender equity and ethnic diversity, these are a part of the PAC10
mission statement.There are several good academic programs at BYU,
just not enough. BYU is not diverse ethnically speaking.BYU has not
had recent success in mainstream athletics at a national attention grabbing
level such as Utah.The PAC 10 is the conference of champions. Utah
will be a excellent fit.
Hedgie the hog said:"Utah would not be in PAC10 discussions if they
had not gone to and won two BCS bowl games. The NATIONAL recognition generated
by the BCS games propelled them above BYU as the team of choice for the state of
Utah. Without those wins Utah (along with BYU) would have been ignored."And this explains the inclusion of your partner conference-jumper, the U
of Boulder, in what way?Let's hear it for Colorado's high academics and
dominating national sports. LOL Based on sports programs--football
included--stadium, attendance, fan base, TV sets, financial attractiveness,
etc., etc., BYU is as or more appealing than U. (But, we all know why they
aren't invited to the party.)The U is not nearly the "bees knees" as
hedgie professes and the Y is much better than these denigrating posts proclaim.
Keep downgrading the team that holds scoreboard over you this year
and 3 of the last 4 and your comments seem more and more ridiculous...if that is
Utes will still get chomped by the Cougars, WASU Cougars, along with the
MildCats and Sun Dummies. Meet the new doormat!
Ben, UteologyThe thing is, adding Colorado and Utah could have been
done by e-mail. If they hired anyone, it could have Harry and Lloyd to ride out
and do it on their mini-bike.But Larry Scott has been hired, and CCA
has been retained to create a grand conference.Did he have just one
trick, or is something else in the wings?He could have invited Utah
the same day as Colorado.Utah may get the invite, I hope they do.
I'll get great seats to watch the UofA play in RES. But all the
chest beating before the invite, the slamming of BYU isn't necessary. It's
classless.Everyone knows (who reads) why Utah is the "probably the
only" choice left for the PAC-10 to make it PAC-12.Hey, ya get the
invite, throw a parade, dance around the campus, let's get a pizza at the
Pie.In the meantime, there should be a catious optimism at the U
right now, not this classless act. Most real Utah fans, the ones that went
there, are too classy for that.
homers | 2:20 p.m. June 15, 2010 Another way to look at the bigger
picture, though, is who has the best total package to bring to the PAC 10. The
Sears Cup...It becomes obvious that the PAC 10 is really inviting the Utes for
their powerful women's tennis and gymnastics teams - otherwise, the Utes are
going to get schooled in the PAC-10. Get used to the 4 and 5 loss football
seasons again. ---------------:) Okay Cleo thanks for
your predictions. Go enjoy your Sears Cup success becasue I am sure
anytime now it will be announced that the SEC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC, and Big East
are all fighting for BYU to join thier conference.
Good for you Alpine. You go ahead and take the sears cup, we will take the two
Oklahoma Cougar | 2:29 p.m. June 15, 2010 Sir you've already been
called out on lies about "media sources" please proivde which media source or is
this another email from your "friend back east".
Hey zoniezoobie, its WAZZU, and boy are we glad that CU and Utah are coming into
our whoopin shed!
@The Canuck:"We had scheduled over the last 10-15 years numerous
home and home dates versus PAC10 opponents like CAL, Stanford, Oregon, and
UCLA.While BYU was scheduling Eastern Washington, Northern Iowa and
Tulane.Now when you want to join the in crowd/PAC10/BCS Conferences
doesn't it make sense to get to know the in crowd/PAC10/BCS Conferences
first?"Are you serious?! Are you really that delusional? BYU has
scheduled just as many home and home series with PAC 10 opponents as Utah, if
not more, over the same 10-15 year period. In the last 15 years BYU has had home
and home series with USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St and
Washington. You can also add to that list Notre Dame, Florida State, Georgia
Tech, Texas A&M, and Virginia, to name just a few. Utah hasn't even
been invited to the PAC 10 yet, and already Ute fan arrogance is gone through
the stratosphere. Don't let the door hit you in the rear on your way out.
That's ok Ben. We will take our overall athletic superiority and up your two
BCS wins by one National Championship.
Time to dispel this notion:Cancuck commented"BYU has not
had recent success in mainstream athletics at a national attention grabbing
level such as Utah."Let's assume mainstream athletics is football.
Let's assume national attention-grabbing level means Top 25 national rankings.
Let's assume recent means the past five years.2005 Utah (others
receiving votes)2006 BYU 16th2007 BYU 14th, Utah (others receiving
votes)2008 Utah 2nd, BYU 25th2009 BYU 12th, Utah 18thStick with the facts, please.
It would be refreshing not to have Utah in the conference. Their fans are a
disgrace to the community. Go ahead and follow the yellow brick road and hope
you don't have a big fall. Quite frankly I don't trust the Pac-10. They've
shown dishonesty with their refs when playing non-conference teams. Just ask
Oklahoma! You think they'll be honest with the Utes when trying to uplift SC?
Mr. Canuck, a couple of minor revisions to your observations:BYU
opponents have been flying into Provo for several years now since the runway
extension. Provo airport is closer to LES, than SLC Intl is to RES.Some of your mentioned 'lower echelon' teams that BYU scheduled have flown
into Provo, ie--The Fighting Irish flew into Provo on a Delta 757; Stanford
flew in on an America West(US Airways) 757; as well as most all MWC teams,
except TUN who comes down on 'old yellow'.As far as BYU being a
lower level institution, BYU recently ranked as # 1 in yield, (meaning
percentage of students who are accepted actually enrolling), ahead of Harvard,
Yale, and Stanford.What this means is, BYU is nobody's back-up plan.
Those who apply to BYU want to be there.
RepresentBlue forgot bowl games against Oregon, and Oregon State. Guess that
just leaves WA St. off the PAC 10 been there, done that list.
re: big ben + utelogyThis is my fourth post about the source you
asked about. Not sure why the moderator has not posted any of them. Maybe I
am too specific.This quote was published this morning at 12:32 am on
a national sports website (hint: cbssports) by one of their regular columnists
(hint: Gary P.). It is an exact quote from one of his columnists and you can
address your sincere apologies to this board for calling me a liar.Moderator: Is this ok?
alpine, thats cute. good for you! The bottom line is, what we
argue about is trivial. We all have our own biases which prevent us from
completely seeing reality. It very well could be that BYU ends up in the Big 12
in a couple years and Utah is still in the Mountain West. As I have said from
the beginning, we need to sit back, relax, and let the dominoes fall where they
FYI about the U's replacement, Boise St. University.(In case you've
forgotten.)AP Post-season Rankings NCAA College Football:2005 others receiving votes2006 5th2007 others receiving votes2008 11th2009 4thWhat's the saying? Nobody's irreplaceable.
Don't be so provincial. Here in California there is a huge sigh of relief that
Texas and Oklahoma are not coming. There is a shrug of the shoulders over Utah
and Colorado. Just before exiting the WAC Arizona State was the Cinderella team
that had beaten Nebraska and was going to move up to the big leagues. They have
done well, and contributed to the conference. To contend for the championship
is another story (unless you are willing to risk probation). No one is a
doormat in the league for long. Even the king ended up in 4th place.
re: big ben + utelogyThis is the fifth e-mail naming the source.
The first four have apparently been censored by the DesNews moderator.The exact quote was taken from a column written by Gary Parrish in his regular
column on CBS Sportsline published early this morning.Please address
your public apology for calling me a liar on this comment board.
If you logically stop and think about this you might realize that UH in Houston
makes more sense than U of Utah. The Houston market is about 5
million people. That would give the PAC 10 a recruiting and TV footprint in a
key recuriting and TV market for both UT and A&M. UH would quickly build into a
stronger program because of the shared revenue from the PAC10. If UH wins games
the potential for casual followers in that TV market is maybe 10 times bigger
(not to mention San Antonio and Dallas/FTWorth) than the U of Utah. Further, it would be a good defensive move by the PAC10. The Big 12 may be
attractive to UA,ASU and UCLA or even USC now that they allow individual teams
to have thier own network. The PAC10 may have made the first move
but the last laugh may be made by the Big 12 by raiding the best of the PAC10 in
future years. The rules have changed. The big TV market teams now
have more power and value than individual conferences. It is only the weak teams
that NEED conference affiliation.
Hedgehog has one thing right. Without those wins (the end-all, be-all BCS bowls)
Utah WOULD be ignored by the PAC-10. How many BCS bowl appearances does their
partner, U of Colorado, have?You're right hedgie, forgive us.
UT can add big TV market teams to the Big 12 North. Rainding a
couple of teams out of Phoenix and LA and adding them to the North does not hurt
UT. UT would only play them once in a while. KS, KState, MO etc would be stuck
with the travel and harder schedules.The Big 12 would demand and get
2 BCS berths if they added a couple of PAC10 teams. If the Big 12
wanted to they could add 5 teams from the PAC10 and Louisville. I am not saying
they will but now the PAC10 has made and failed at a power grab. UT
is in a position to write the rules of realignment over the next couple of
years. That is particularly true if they have help from ABC/ESPN and Fox. The war has just begun. It is more than just one conference against
another. It is major sports networks raiding their competitions key markets. Utah is relatively unimportant in this war. The PAC10 had better be
awake as they have just started a war with Texas. The Big 10 should also be on
notice. They have a conference network with CBS.
lolI was just imagining the reception the yoots will receive in
California because after the Trees/Golden Bears decide to vent their collective
frustration/anger over prop 8.
Utah going to the PAC 10 will add INSTANT credibility to the U - not only in
athletics but as a University as well. Now the U will be among the elite with
Stanford, Cal, UCLA, etc.... When Arizona and Arizona St left the WAC years ago
they joined the BIG time both athletically as well as academically. Even if the
academic boost is percecption only it still benifits the graduates. Saying that
you attended and graduated from a PAC 10 school means something. Certainly
playing for a PAC10 school is BIG time and BYU will disolve into insignificance
once the U takes the big step UP! BYU will lose recruits to the U (LDS recruits)
since there is no comparison in playing for the PAC 10 vs the MWC. Do you want
to play in Colorado St.'s little high school stadium or do you want to play in
the Rose Bowl? Hmmmm- not too hard of a decision for football recruits. I think
the U deserves the promotion with it's BCS wins in football and its finals
appearance in basketball a few years back. The Y is finding it hard to compete
athletically and academically.
I am changing my loyalty to BYU because there fans "Know It All" and prove it on
For the money alone, I wouldn't blame Utah for bolting to the Pac-whatever if
invited.But here's what's really sad: the MWC has been building
momentum in recent years, primarily by beating up on Pac-10 schools, and with
Boise State and its 2-game winning streak against Pac-10 champs Oregon, the MWC
would be guaranteed AQ status in the BCS, particularly with the Big-12 staying
intact, forestalling a major realignment to 4 mega-conferences. But in spite of
all the chest-beating and bravado from fans of MWC schools in recent years over
the MWC success against the Pac-10, it would appear that all it takes to
undermine everything gained towards AQ status is for the PAC-11 to grab Utah.So financial incentives aside, if Utah said "no" to a PAC-whatever
invite, barring further consolidation in BCS conferences, the MWC is virtually a
lock for AQ status and continues to outplay the PAC-10 in both football and
basketball. Utah would actually be more likely to make a BCS bowl under this
scenario than as a member of the PAC-xx.Anyone else see the irony?
ABC/ESPN agreed to the UT/Big12 deal to protect thier contracts with the ACC and
Big East. Those conferences would have been cannibalized by the formation of 4
super conferences. ABC/ESPN, especially ESPN could be a really big
loser of market share as the 4 conferences develop. Expect big TV
market teams to demand and get individual network rights. The conferences are
not weaker. They are based on traditions that made sense before TV was
developed. Most of them have outlived thier efficiency.
Oklahoma... I have looked through his latest articles dating back to the first
of June and he doesn't say anything in there about what you have Quoted him
on... It hurts doesn't it? To be called out on a public forum
Zoobs are out in full force:JayDee: add 2004 to your chart it will
change the view of "recent history"Homers: The Sears Cup, are you
serious? You're gripping now.All Other Zoobs: Why all the nasty
comments? That's not the type of behavior your school stands for, or is it?
@jaYdee,Utah football wins big games when it needs to. BCS bowls,
longest bowl game winning streak. Out of conference record etc. However, like I said... its not just athletics. BYU is plain and
simple not as well rounded an institution of collegial academics when compared
to other schools.What part of that do you not understand? There is
more to college than the dating and marriage, BOM, D&C and other mandatory
religion classes and football.@BYU-Virginia,Once PAC12
affiliation kicks in for Utah, the Mormon population, the only population that
regards BYU as a first choice school as you put it, will have options.A parochial school (BYU) with great undergrad programs in certain disciplines,
limited graduate degree opportunities and a second tier athletics program, based
on athletic conference affiliation.Or U of Utah, (off campus LDS
Institute for a large LDS student body). Great undergrad and graduate programs,
a first tier research program. Diverse student body. And a member in the one of
the top athletics conferences in the nation.I would figure that
BYU's days of signing a majority of Mormon athletic prospects are limited.
It is funny to see all these Yners that support BYU through and through come one
here and say some of the stuff they do, It makes people like myself not want
anything to do with the religion... I was raised in the church but after seeing
what higher up people do and get away with has drawn me farther from the
religion... Just saying, If you claim to follow the standards that BYU has and
what there school is all about, Please, Choose your words wisely!!
Oklahoma Cougar | 3:46 p.m. June 15, 2010 I didn't call you a lier
on this board I did on the other board. I asked for the "media
source". The name of the article would also helpful because I just looked
at:Naive Big 12 boss will get fooled again -- just waitJune 15, 2010By Gary ParrishAnd does not have what was
quoted by you.
tagzz: perhaps you can head upstairs and ask your mom exactly how to find
something on the 'puter.Or you can go to the Gary Parrish "Parrish:
The THoughts" blog on CBS Sportsline and find his "Expand-O-Meter, Monday June
14th" blog column dated early this morning (12:32 am) June 15th.You
will find the exact same "Bad Day" quote immediately following the "Good Day"
quote about the Big XII's Dan Beebe.You can apologize now that you
have been called out.Thanks for playing your mindless juvenile
re:TheCanuckYou are right on with your comments and this is coming
from a Utah Valley guy and long time Y fan. I do have two daughters however that
are U graduates so I have always held the U in high regard academics wise and
athletically they have paved the way for themselves with the BCS bowl wins. I am
happy for the U if they get the invite because it will mean instant credibility
both athletically and academically as well. The Y is finding it harder and
harder to compete both academically and athletically but this promotion for the
U will really hurt the Y no question.
TAGZZ - aah, does somebody need a hug?I'm curious as to which
"higher up people" you're referring to, and exactly what they "do and get away
with." Very odd basis for determining your religious affiliation.Unless you're willing to name names, titles, and actions, perhaps you should
choose your words wisely, or at least refrain from making such broad
JayDee | 3:24 p.m. June 15, 2010 ...and with the "greatness" the
Cougars have had the last five years, still no BCS bowl game. You cannot even
say the Cougars lost a BCS bowl game.How embarrassing, but look at
it this way, your team is 3-2 in the [gasp] Las Vegas bowl the last five years.
That's a winning record.
Utelogy: same advice for you as for tagzz. The now famous "Bad Day for PAC-10"
quote is there in black and white on CBS Sportsline blog column written and
posted early this a.m. It is still there.BTW, I am not on any other
comment boards, so it was here on the DesNews board that you called me a "liar".
Why do so many of you Ute fans feel the necessity to be personal and
disingenuous in your remarks. It really is getting old to listen to your
attempts to belittle BYU-just because you hate it and all it stands for so
much.Still waiting for your apology for calling me a liar.
Utelogy: same advice for you as for tagzz. The now famous "Bad Day for PAC-10"
quote is there in black and white on CBS Sportsline blog column written and
posted by Gary Parrish early this a.m. It is still there in spite of your false
protestations otherwise.Still waiting for your apology for calling
me a liar.
The latest word I heard... Texas Tech and Missouri are going to crash the Big
XII celebration and not accept the new terms of the "Give Texas all your money
for them letting you be in their conference!" Newest word is that Larry Scott
has been sighted in Lubbock and the PAC is doing some courting.Sounds like Ute fans should have learned from Missouri fans and keep their
mouths shut before you trump the horns.
Oklahoma Cougar | 5:21 p.m. June 15, 2010 My bad I ment different
thread you were called out as a lier.Do you know what the difference
between a "blog" and an "article" is? The quote you used is on his blog post
not a published article.So yes I owe you an aplogy, sorry if I hurt
your feeligns. But your still a lier on the other thread for using a user's
comment on a blog.
Mr. Eyepatch, Sir:Why did you put the word "greatness" in quotation
marks? I never said that. I was simply responding to Canuck with facts about Top
25 end-of-season rankings which was a relevant point to his earlier post. I wrote nothing about bowl games, wins, or losses.If those
facts about rankings disturb you, I apologize. I would appreciate
the same (an apology) from you for misrepresenting my post.
For all you zoobies who think the Utes should "show up the Pac-10" by declining
an invitation.....WE CAN'T.Several reasons...First,
there seems to be a lot of zoobies touting the higher level of competition in
the Pac than in the MWC. That is a sentiment shared by most media and college
football conferences. If the Utes decline, it would appear as though we were
running away from the competition in order to remain a big fish in a small pond.
All along, we've been trying to prove that we belong and CAN measure up to the
power conferences, but we've been held out. If we turn down an invite, we lose
that leverage, and we lose that argument. If we are extended an invitation, we
have to back up our words with action and take it.Second, Utah needs
to expand their stadium. Since we'll be making 10 times the revenue in the Pac
than in the MWC, it's really a no-brainer.Third, jealous zoobie
tears are delicious. It's ambrosia to the gods. The gods being the Utes.GO UTES!!!
Boy, what a crazy couple of weeks.Stictly speaking in terms of shear
awesomeness (as it relates to exciting football games and rivalries), ten team
conferences are clearly superior to twelve. In terms of money, I'll
concede the championship game has worked...for the SEC. The Big-12 has argued in
the past it has hurt them with regards to NC hope. And the ACC?---does anyone
even know/care how they divide that conference in football?Personally, I'm excited that BSU has joined the MWC. It is clear the MWC
should have an automatic invite to a BCS game. Bottom line: the PAC
1? will invite Utah it if thinks they will bring in money. If they don't they
will shy away and stick with 11, like the "Big Ten" has done since adding Penn
St. But if they do invite Utah, I'm sure they'd accept just like BSU accepted
the invite to the MWC. It's nothing personal, Y fans. Just
Maybe this dumb rivalry will finally die.
Nobody wants more money enough to have to accommodate the Cougars no play on
Sunday or to have the RMs beat up their teams.
It irks me how many U fans believe how superior their football team is. I keep
hearing how the U has 2 BCS championships which makes them the better, more
talented, more athletic football team over BYU. Yes, the U played a surprisingly
great game against Alabama, but that win was no more impressive than BYU's win
over OU last year. Also, everyone knows that if TCU knew how to kick fieldgoals
that year, the U wouldn't have even been in the Sugar Bowl in the first
place.Now Utah is projected to go to the PAC which validates the
arrogance, right? Complete garbage. Let the tradition, awards, and
championships over the past 35 years speak volumes.Utah5
conference championships2 BCS championships10-3 bowl games3
top 10 finishes1 Coach of the YearBYU22 conference
championships1 national championship10-17-1 bowl games4 top 10
finishes1 Heisman1 Doak Walker4 Davey O'Brien2
Outland1 Sammy Baugh2 Coach of the Year6 Hall of FameUtah may get the weak PAC, but it may not be long before BYU gets the Big XII
or a stronger MWC.
@Tair20 You're trying to say that Utahs win over alabama was just
the same and byu beating OU?! Do you watch football....ever? There is no way
that the OU team BYU played could have even lasted 10 seconds playing the
alabama team utah played. What was OU's final rank at the end of the year? Were
they even in the top 25?
As a Utah fan, I'm shocked that the TDS is not going to the Big 12. It really
surprises me that they're not getting the invite given their big stadium and 26
year old NC. Oh well . . .Congrats to the Utes. I guess the past 10
years of Utah's national exposure with two BCS bowl wins is better than a big
stadium and an old NC.
Hey "PAC Member"...Go ahead and join the PAC 12. It will be all the
more sweet when we beat you.You know, like we have 3 of the last 4
Can't wait for Utah to join the PAC and start getting thumped by USC, etc.Oh sure, some days I'll cheer for the Utes when they play other PAC
schools but on other days I'll just cheer for them to get the snot pounded out
of them.The Utes (lately) have been good, true. But they ain't THAT