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Dick Harmon: BYU/Utah TV ratings shaping up

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  • FireInside
    May 27, 2010 1:12 p.m.

    ute-chute...do you see why some of your fanbase gives the rest of the utes a bad name? Just as some BYU fans go off the handle and give the lower, classless ute fans ammo.

    Nice to see there are logical, rational thinking ute fans out there. With the likes of Navel Vet and hedgehog around, one begins to lose hope of their exsistence.

  • Utah'95
    May 26, 2010 1:06 a.m.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    20-25 years ago, it was the BYU fans that said "we should go to the PAC 10." Mind you, BYU was never invited. I say all the time, "I should go out with Charlize Theron." The trouble is, she never returns my calls....

    Lots of you Cougar fans are enjoying pointing out that Utah's record in PAC 10 stadiums is poor. It is. But to get the information out, BYU's is similar. Over 5 years, the Cougs are 2-2 at home, 2-4 on the road, and 3-2 at neutral sites. Over ten years, those numbers are 6-6, 3-10, and 3-2. That's 7-8 over 5 years, and 12-18 over 10 years against the PAC 10, regardless of site.

    Fellow Ute fans, make no mistake - IF asked to join the PAC 10, the level of competition, top to bottom, is much better than what we are used to. Playing 1-2 PAC 10 teams per year is much different than playing 8.

    I think we would fare better than the Arizona schools, but that's far from certain.

  • ute-chute
    May 25, 2010 6:06 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    See and I still think you have to be a BYU fan acting out that you are a Utah fan trying to perpetuate the myth that ALL Utah fans are classless using the terms "tdS, ybU, and zoob".

    The Navy Anumal Dr. doth protest too much, methinks

    Let's keep it civil and agree to disagree.

    Besides, I'm sure you need to get back to the Leprechauns and Unicorns that live in your reality...

    Later, my friend, and when you make it out here I'll take you to a game, and we'll sit in my seats. Fourth row right behind the Utes bench.

    I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to cut you off now. You embarass me.

    Ute-Chute

  • MichiganCoog
    May 25, 2010 6:02 p.m.

    ...Calling BYU fans "zoobs" is kinda like calling Utah fans "Utards", just as rude... But we don't because that isn't very nice, thanks for being a "classy-Ute" Mr. Ute-chute, you truely are a rarity...

    As for Naval Vet, Hedgehog, and other BYU haters out there that troll around on these article, We all know that no matter how many actual facts and figures that we coog fans provide you with (i.e.: 2-10 road records vs. PAC10 schools, and barely winning your home games against OSU) and others (except for the '07 UCLA game), would place your UTes at about a .500 winning percentage if and when you join the PAC10...a very good measure of reality. So, how do you figure w/ those facts in mind, would lead one to believe it possible to suddenly contend for the PAC10 titles and additional BCS appearances when you can't even win the MWC championship in successive years, and only manage to do it every 4-5 years...clearly why your collective comments never make any sense...

  • Naval Vet
    May 25, 2010 5:13 p.m.

    Well, well, well. Now we have ONE zoobie apologizing to OTHER zoobies on behalf of us Utes.

    I get that you're still trying to dupe people into believing you're a Ute, but I still have to say that I found it humorous that a tdS fan posing as a Ute fan chose to use the adjective "wannabe" to describe ME. Hahahaha! That is SOOOO ybU.

  • ute-chute
    May 25, 2010 4:31 p.m.

    Naval Utah wannabe

    You make friends fast.

    You call our rivals zoobs.

    I apologize to every BYU fan that Naval Vet has call zoob for calling you the childish names. We true Utah fans treat our rivals with respect and as a rule are really college educated.

    People like hedgie and Vet do not represent the U.

  • Naval Vet
    May 25, 2010 1:14 p.m.

    scott:

    You talk about road woes vs. Pac-10 teams with winning records as if it's common place. In the 11 years since the MWC's inaugural season, the Utes have only lost to 4. And it isn't as if the tdS has beaten any Pac-10 teams with winning records on the road either. Your cherry-picked stats have demonstrated no trend, and are thus inconsequential garbage. I could just as easily state that the Pac-10's road woes vs. Utah teams with winning records is an anemic 0-5.

    Sad, illogical zoobs.

  • Buster
    May 25, 2010 12:51 a.m.

    @navy guy from Philly

    "Plagiarizing "Dumb & Dumber" doesn't make you clever. It makes you unoriginal."

    Glad you liked it bro.

    What does calling everyone Zoob do for you, Mr. Originality???

    If logic and stats, don't get through, I figured try a different approach.

    Hey, I want Utah to do well. I'm an in-state guy. I don't have the "wanna-be-"Gilly-from-Philly" attitude, I want the State to look good.

    Callin' "zoob" 'aint gonna get you road wins.

    But, hey, ya got a chance. Live the dream. Beat 'SC, UCLA, OSU, Oregon, Washington, WSU, ASU, U of A, cal, Stanford, and then you get you BCS Bowl AQ...

    You got a chance...

    Ya gotta give props to anyone who was an animal doc in the navy.

  • scott
    May 25, 2010 12:22 a.m.

    If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

    What's obvious is that Utah has proven over the last five years that they can't even beat mediocre MWC teams, especially on the road -- see UNLV, New Mexico, Wyoming, San Diego State and Colorado State.

    None of your name calling is going to change that.

    And because of Utah's road woes, no, it's not reasonable to assume that Utah could have beaten USC or Oregon State on the road.

    Given the fact that Utah has only beaten one PAC 10 team with a winning record in the Ute's last ten PAC 10 road games, it is reasonable to assume that the Utes would lose a minimum of four PAC 12 games every year.

    Four PAC 12 losses "might" get the Utes into the Las Vegas Bowl, but it certainly wouldn't get them into the Rose Bowl.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 11:14 p.m.

    (5) If the Utes were in the Pac-12, will they have to be undefeated in conference play [or otherwise] to play in the Rose Bowl?

    (6) If the Utes were in the Pac-12, would every Pac-12 opponent be a road game?

    (7) If the Utes DIDN’T win the Pac-12, is it conceivable, if finishing as the Pac-12 runner-up, that they could STILL manage to earn a Rose Bowl invitation?


    And funny that I never heard the “Arizona school analogies” when zoobies had been fraudulently boasting about “secret talks” the “why?” has purportedly been having with the Pac-10 and Big XII schools for expansion over these past 20 years.

    Sad, jealous zoobs.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 11:13 p.m.

    What is it with zoobies and their pathetically lame "roll playing" modus operandi? Plagiarizing "Dumb & Dumber" doesn't make you clever. It makes you unoriginal.

    Let me reiterate the following questions that you zoobs have conveniently ignored:


    (1) If 4-8 New Mexico could come within 3-pts of the Utes, would it be reasonable to presume that the 13-0 Utes could come within 3-pts of USC? [*HINT* See 14-pt Sugar Bowl win over the #6 team in the country]

    (2) If Oregon St. could beat USC, and Utah could beat Oregon St, is it conceivable that Utah could do even better than coming within 3-pts of USC, but actually beat them?

    (3) If after the final clock ticks down to 0:00, and Utah has at least 1 more point than USC, is it reasonable the Utes can call that a win?

    (4) If the Utes can beat USC, is it conceivable they can beat every other team in the Pac-10/12?

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 10:30 p.m.

    Thank you Scott.

    :-)

    I don't see the PAC-10 expanding, but if they do, in thirty years, Utah could be football's University of Arizona...

  • scott
    May 24, 2010 10:18 p.m.

    Very amusing Buster and spot on.

    Pride goeth before the fall and Utah fans may yet rue the day the Utes joined the PAC 12.

  • Solomon Levi
    May 24, 2010 10:11 p.m.

    Utah 2004 was better, in my opinion, than Utah 2008, even though Utah 2008 beat more ranked teams. It's doubtful either team could have beaten USC home or away.

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 9:50 p.m.

    Naval Guy

    Out of respect to you, the common man, I did go through your scenarios, and I think I figured out a way things might work...

    Naval Vet: I want to ask you a question... straight out, flat out... and I want you to give me an honest answer. What do you think the chances of a team like Utah and a Bowl like the Rose Bowl... ending up together?
    Rose Bowl: Well Navel Guy... that's difficult to say... you really don't...
    Naval Vet: Hit me! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you Rose Bowl. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
    Rose Bowl: Not good.
    Naval Vet: [Gulps] You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
    Rose Bowl: I'd say more like... one out of a million.
    Naval Vet: So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah!

    So you go, dude! Live the dream...

  • scenic view
    May 24, 2010 9:42 p.m.

    Utah barely beat TCU and Oregon State at home. Any unbiased fan who watched those games would say that the Utes chances of beating either one of those teams on the road would have been EXTREMELY slim; in fact, it's more likely that Utah would have been beaten handily on the road by both teams.

  • MUSSing with U
    May 24, 2010 9:30 p.m.

    Utah regularly loses to MWC teams on the road. Even under Kyle, the Utes have lost an average of 2 to 3 MWC games every year, most of them road games.

    At least half of Utah's PAC 12 games would be on the road. How have the Utes done on the road in the PAC 10?

    Last 10 PAC 10 Road Games

    2009 @Oregon (10-3) 24-31 LOST
    2007 @Oregon State (9-4) 7-24 LOST
    2006 @UCLA (7-6) 10-31 LOST
    2004 @Arizona (3-8) 23-6 won
    2002 @Arizona (4-8) 17-23 LOST
    2001 @Oregon (11-1) 10-24 LOST
    2000 @California (3-8) 21-24 LOST
    1999 @Washington State (3-9) 27-7 won
    1997 @Oregon (7-5) 13-31 LOST
    1996 @Stanford (7-5) 17-10 won

    Utah's BCS and Rose Bowl hopes will basically die the day the Utes join the PAC 12. (see Arizona)

    So much for being a member of an AQ conference.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 6:41 p.m.

    Buster:

    "If the Utes barely beat New Mexico (4-8) 13-10 on the road, what makes you think the Utes could have beaten #18/#19 Oregon State, #10/#9 Oregon, ur/#25 California, and #3/#2 USC on the road."

    If the Utes could beat 4 ranked teams in a single season by an average of 11 points, I'd say they have good chance of beating those aforementioned teams. [I guess you missed the "*** HINT ***"] In fact, one of those aforementioned teams actually WAS defeated by the 2008 Utes. What makes you think all 4 of those teams would be road games? In fact, who was the last Pac-10 team to have to face [much less beat] 4 ranked conference opponents ALL ON THE ROAD?

    You got nothing there, do you?

    I noticed you conspicuously skirted the answer to bullet points #6-8. Those should have prevented you from asking such a stupid question.

  • Legalese
    May 24, 2010 6:40 p.m.

    This is flawed research due to the simple fact that BYU fans are at the games and UTE fans are on the couch.

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 6:36 p.m.

    Navy guy

    Maybe your points weren't censored, they just didn't want people thinking you were nuts...

    Glad they were printed.

    You are.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 6:26 p.m.

    zoob-shoot:

    "North/South is not Up and Down except on a map. It's not that way in real life..."

    Typical zoob. Ignorant of the way things are in real life. Ever been to New York? Manhattan is divided into "Uptown", "Midtown", and "Downtown". Guess where "Uptown" is relative to "Midtown" and "Downtown" using a North or South focus...

    The only people who "drive up" to LES are those folks who live South of the stadium. Like pretty much 99% of ybU students. Look, I get it...if I were a zoob, I'd be embarrassed to admit it too, and may have to pretend to be somebody far less ridiculous to be taken seriously. Like a Ute for example.

    Zoob.

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 6:21 p.m.

    So, Naval Vet...

    Using your logic, SWBU will win the NCAA tourney.

    Thanks for adding, and let me say the world is safer now that you are a Vet, and not on active duty...

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 6:17 p.m.

    Naval Vet
    "(1) If 4-8 New Mexico could come within 3-pts of the Utes, would it be reasonable to presume that the 13-0 Utes could come within 3-pts of USC?"
    "(3) If after the final clock ticks down to 0:00, and Utah has at least 1 more point than USC, is it reasonable the Utes can call that a win?"

    That is what you bring to the discussion???

    Utah by 1???

    If the Utes barely beat New Mexico (4-8) 13-10 on the road, what makes you think the Utes could have beaten #18/#19 Oregon State, #10/#9 Oregon, ur/#25 California, and #3/#2 USC on the road.

    "Utah = Prime candidate to join a BCS League
    ybU = Fearfully waiting to see what Utah does, and hope to not get left behind"

    Utah lost the head to head Deseret CU Duel. BYU 45.5 - Utah 15.5 (Thank heaven for Women's Gymnastics).

    If the Utes fare so lame against BYU, how do you figure they will do in the PAC-12.

    Don't worry about BYU. Wherever the Utes end up, they will always be behind BYU...

    So will you...


  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 6:09 p.m.

    zoob-shoot [4]:

    (4) If Utah has at least 1 more point than USC, is it reasonable the Utes can call that a win?
    (5) If the Utes can beat USC, is it conceivable they can beat every other team in the Pac-10/12?
    (6) If the Utes were in the Pac-12, will they have to be undefeated in conference play [or otherwise] to play in the Rose Bowl?
    (7) If the Utes were in the Pac-12, would every Pac-12 opponent be a road game?
    (8) If the Utes DIDN’T win the Pac-12, is it conceivable, if finishing as the Pac-12 runner-up, that they could STILL manage to earn a Rose Bowl invitation?

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 6:08 p.m.

    Read MY original post...the one that said all your banter is nothing more than zoobie talking points made up by a zoob who's posing as a Ute.

    Unfortunately, you won't be favored with bullet items #4 thru #8 submitted immediately following my 4:46 post because the DesNews keeps deleting them. One of the upsides to being a tdS fan is that your right to free speech and expression is significantly MORE free than ours.

    Furthermore, you the response to your 2:10 post will also most likely forever remain a mystery.

  • ute-chute
    May 24, 2010 6:03 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    LOL!!!

    You have really hit the wall.

    North/South is not Up and Down except on a map. It's not that way in real life...

    Leave my house and drive over "point of the mountain".

    I have no other response for someone of you level of intelligence. Please, keep all remaining correspondance between you and hedgehog. I have no use for you or childish rants.

    Regards, and goodbye.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 5:44 p.m.

    zoob-shoot [1]

    At 7:02, you said “Argue one of my points that is wrong,...”, so I only argued 1 point. The DesNews makes it too difficult with their limited space and overzealous censorship policy to highlight every “made up” claim you zoobies throw out on these comment boards. Outright MWC championships in 2003, 2004, and 2008 challenged and successfully refuted your bogus claim of only 2 in the previous decade. You may call it “hardly debunked”, but I call it “you got poned”. TRUE Ute fans know about those 3 just these last 7 yrs...clearly within your 10-yr timeframe. You got debunked/poned, but you can’t admit that you were wrong. Yep, that is SOOOO ybU. That’s a zoob.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 5:43 p.m.

    zoob-shoot:

    It would appear that posts [1], [4], and [5] have been censored. So now you'll never know the answer to your question. You can thank the monitors for their arbitrary judgments.

    Go gestapo.

  • ute-chute
    May 24, 2010 5:37 p.m.

    Naval Vet???

    Read my original post.

    I made three points.

    (1). To be considered a relevant program, we need to win more consistently. I would like that.

    (2.) To build build a larger stadium, we need a larger fanbase to fill it. To build the Ute fanbase we need a winning basketball program. That would give us year-round fans. We need people filling the HC and RES. Not typing classless post on a computer in Philly.

    (3). To build the fanbase, we need to stop hating on BYU as a endall, talk more positive about ourselves, and lay off the hating... (ie hedgehog).

    I would rather we be positive and sell some tickets at RES and make it a good experience than placate an angry old Naval Vet from Philly.

    But, hey, I'm here, and you are there. Stay there.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 5:02 p.m.

    zoob-shoot:

    "I think if the Utes appealed to ALL Utahns, we could fill the stadium and demand a larger one, instead of driving up to Utah county to fill up LES."

    Whoops! Another zoobie freudian slip. Utes don't "drive up to Utah County". Utah County is South of SLC. Ergo, we "drive DOWN to Utah County". The "drive up" is when you Provostanis do when you visit RES. Additionally, once you get there, you have to "drive up" the hill.

    Drive up = SLC / Utah / RES / Huntsman Center
    Drive down = Provostan / ybU / LES / Mariott Center

    Utah = Prime candidate to join a BCS League
    ybU = Fearfully waiting to see what Utah does, and hope to not get left behind

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 4:46 p.m.

    zoob-shoot [3]:

    “So, tell me how your argument shows Utah making the Rose Bowl twice in the PAC-12.”

    Typical zoob. You can unequivocally infer — with NO evidence — that the Utes won’t be able to win the Pac-12, but demand that I submit evidence that they could. That’s all part of the one-way street zoobies live on. I make a case, but I can’t guarantee the DesNews will allow it. Nevertheless...

    (1) If 4-8 New Mexico could come within 3-pts of the Utes, would it be reasonable to presume that the 13-0 Utes could come within 3-pts of USC? [*HINT* See 14-pt Sugar Bowl win over the #6 team in the country]
    (2) If Oregon St. could beat USC, and Utah could beat Oregon St, is it conceivable that Utah could do even better than coming within 3-pts of USC, but actually beat them?
    (3) If after the final clock ticks down to 0:00, and Utah has at least 1 more point than USC, is it reasonable the Utes can call that a win?

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 4:45 p.m.

    zoob-shoot [2]:

    “If I bring up points that I think as a season ticket holder I have a right to, I am a zoob...”

    You ARE a zoob. You’re not season ticket holder at RES. LES maybe, but that’s not the claim you’re trying to make. You wanna know what’s classless? Misrepresenting yourself by feigning allegiance to your rival in order to trump up “talking points” as to why we shouldn’t leave you behind. Liars are classless.



    “Dude, I don't have to buy in. I have sat in RES with the Die Hard fans...”

    Yep. And I’ll bet you even had tales of imaginary beer dumped on you to regale your fellow fans and earn your martyrdom like all the other zoobies who have likewise purported to have sat in RES.

  • MUSSing with U
    May 24, 2010 2:57 p.m.

    "There is also no legitimate argument that can definitively be made that the 2004 Utes couldn’t have run through the Pac-10 either."

    In 2004, the Utes had impressive victory margins, but the Utes only beat three teams with winning records:

    Texas A&M (7-5)
    @New Mexico (7-5)
    @Wyoming (7-5)

    There's nothing in Utah's 2004 resume to indicate that the Utes could have beaten either #1 USC or #9 California, especially on the road.

    In 2008, anyone who watched the games knows that Utah just barely survived games @Michigan, @Air Force, @New Mexico, and versus Oregon State and TCU.

    If the Utes barely beat New Mexico (4-8) 13-10 on the road, what makes you think the Utes could have beaten #18/#19 Oregon State, #10/#9 Oregon, ur/#25 California, and #3/#2 USC on the road.

    The Utes haven't beaten a PAC 10 team with a winning record on the road since 1996.

    In other words, no proof at all that Utah can win road games against good teams in the PAC 10.

    Without winning road games, the Utes would have no chance of winning a conference title.

  • ute-chute
    May 24, 2010 2:28 p.m.

    So according to Naval Vet, if I don't tear down BYU, call them childish names, I am not a true Ute.

    If I bring up points that I think as a season ticket holder I have a right to, I am a zoob...

    (slow clap didcated to Naval Vet here...)

    Dude, I don't have to buy in. I have sat in RES with the Die Hard fans who show up because we love our team. Yes, I would like our fanbase to be larger, and a larger stadium. I think if the Utes appealed to ALL Utahns, we could fill the stadium and demand a larger one, instead of driving up to Utah county to fill up LES.

    We need to be class University, no mane calling, and make it a family friendly stadium.

    There is no pro team in Utah, and RES is a great place to see a game, and with Kyle there, a game where chances are, we're going to win.

    The basketball team needs to win, otherwise the U is a Fall only sports franchise. Dr. Hill needs to know this, and make changes.

    I am a very proud Ute, my friend.

  • ute-chute
    May 24, 2010 2:10 p.m.

    Nice Call there Naval vet. One argument, hardly debunked. A tie between Utah, BYU and CSU. Hardly the credentials to state that the Utes would have made the Rose Bowl in the PAC 12.

    I figured you as a non-season ticket holder, because you have no grasp on the reality of what happens here in RES, now aknowledging you have no grasp on what happens in the state.

    So, tell me how your argument shows Utah making the Rose Bowl twice in the PAC-12.

    Once again, argue one of my points that is wrong, and not in the Utes best interest.

    BTW, Zoob is classless...

    Put up... or shut up.........

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 1:34 p.m.

    zoob-chute:

    I do not have season tickets to Utah Football. The Utes play in SLC; I live in Philadelphia. If you can't see the impracticality of Ute season tix for a Philadelphian, we can add that to your long list of zoobieness accolades.

    But if you still want to do lunch and show me your season tickets, I know some really good restaurants on South Street.




    “Argue one of my points that is wrong, and not in the Utes best interest...Have you looked at the PAC-10? Where are we going to bet [sic] two championships in ten years when that's what we have done in the MWC.”

    In the last 10 yrs, the Utes have won 3 MWC Championships [something that REAL Ute fans know] and 4 if you go back to the MWC inaugural season 11 yrs ago. If Oregon St. could beat USC in 2008, it’s conceivable the Utes could have too. There is also no legitimate argument that can definitively be made that the 2004 Utes couldn’t have run through the Pac-10 either.

    You’re a zoob. And you’re only fooling your own. Haha.

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 1:18 p.m.

    Haha. IndianaCoug bought "ute-chute's" bogus claim of Ute allegiance. "ute-chute" only fooled his own. Case closed.

  • IndianaCoug
    May 24, 2010 11:46 a.m.

    ute-chute and Utah'95. It is nice to see intelligent posts by classy Ute fans. Best of luck this year... I'm looking forward to the rivalry games.

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 11:39 a.m.

    Hedge.

    The Utes average 45,155 a game.

    True Blue post DOES point out the fact that Utah basketball needs to improve, but their football program is definately on the right track.

  • hedgehog
    May 24, 2010 11:29 a.m.

    TruBluBYU |

    Why? Because he’s responding to SoUte inaccurate comments about attendance at the RES. Sounds like you’re trying to throw Naval Vet under the bus to forward your own agenda.

    Pretty spineless

  • TruBluBYU
    May 24, 2010 10:33 a.m.

    Navel (I corrected his spelling) Vet makes interesting reading if you like pseudo logic. He cries about the small stadium being the reason for the fact that BYU beats their attendance by 20,000 fans. Why doesn't he compare basketball attendances? Is it because BYU has a larger basketball arena that they have 5000 more fans in attendance at each game? Utah only averages about a third of their capacity of around 15,000 at their games. Even Utah State, in the small town of Logan, has a better attendance record than Utah which is in the huge Salt Lake Valley market. In football, nationally, BYU ranked #27 in attendance each of the last three years. They are the only non-BCS team in the top 50 in attendance.

    Before I forget, thanks for the interesting article, Dick.

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 9:18 a.m.

    conklusion | 8:45 a.m.

    "Both the newspaper and the MTN have a BYU leaning, so I'm not surprised at all at the "findings"."

    The MTN. leans BYU? Could you explain how?

    Are you asserting that if the MTN. gave these numbers to the Tribune, they would be different? what is your point?

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 9:01 a.m.

    conklusion | 8:45 a.m.

    Read the earlier post. It discusses expansion (becoming the PAC 12). How will Utah win the PAC 12 twice in 10 years?

    Utes 31 Tide 17 | 12:26 p.m.

    I am not arguing against expanding the stadium, and I asking "how can you justify stadium expansion looking at how many people currenty attend games there?"

    Read how you want, those are two questions I posed. What is your conklusion?

  • conklusion
    May 24, 2010 8:45 a.m.

    Buster, you are arguing a point that wasn't even made by the comment you quoted. LOL the quote you posted is arguing against expanding, and then you argue that they shouldn't expand.. come on now.

    So to sum up the article, on average BYU has more people watching their games... cool. However it is worth noting which newspaper posted this, and which television station did the research. Both the newspaper and the MTN have a BYU leaning, so I'm not surprised at all at the "findings".

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 8:04 a.m.

    Naval Vet

    You totally crack me up.

    We find out there somewhere, a Utah Fan that is not "Anti-BYU, unrealistic, arguing false premises, shows a little logic", and you automatically label the person a BYU fan.

    So, let me get this trat. Not fueled by hate, looks at facts, logical = BYU fan.

    Naval Vet, you proved my point that I have been trying to make all along. Thans for the assistance.


    You are making fools out of your own. Haha.

  • Buster
    May 24, 2010 7:59 a.m.

    @Ute Chute

    """Put them in the Pac-10 and annex the stadium to 75,000..."

    Ummm... where do we get the money? Is the PAC-10 going to foot the bill there? The olympic committee already paid for the first renovation."

    How do you Ute fans propse adding on to RES and amking an 75,000 seat stadium? You cannot fill the 45,000 seats you have now. Tickets are given out for free and the place is still empty unless BYU or another ranked team comes to town.

    Even then, unless you have your best team out there, who wants to go see you lose.

    I think Dr Hill will be slow to fee more money into the stadium until you prove you have a fanbase.

    ""Ten years from now, with a Rose Bowl or two on Utah's resume, I think we'll be reading a different story."

    The PAC-10 becomes the PAC-12. How many times do you predict, out of those 12 schools, that the U will win the PAC 12 over the next 10 years.

    All of you Ute-Nuts are totally unrealistic, no matter how the dice roll on expansion.

  • ute-chute
    May 24, 2010 7:02 a.m.

    Naval Vet | 12:00 a.m.

    Nice assumption.
    I put my tickets up at RES against yours and see who's had them longer. Lucnh?

    Second.
    Argue one of my points that is wrong, and not in the Utes best interest.

    Third.
    We "UTE FANS", and not BYU haters. want to see things improve, for OUR team, and not just compare ourselves to BYU.


    Go Utes...

  • Naval Vet
    May 24, 2010 12:00 a.m.

    ute-chute:

    You use zoobie talking points like consistency, "one trick pony", ybU's insignificantly outdated successes of the 70s and 80s, Ute classlessness, unsubstantiated attendance smack, respect for ybU fans, the hopeless prospect of the Utes ever winning the Pac-10/12 and/or ever returning to the BCS, and the necessity for the University of Utah to remain close to the the "why?" to ensure their own prosperity.....

    ....and think that just because you created a login name with "ute" in the handle that ACTUAL Ute fans wouldn't see you for what your really are?

    That's pretty pathetic when you have to pretend to be your rival in order to validate yourself and placate your true-blue fanbase.

    Ironically, the only people you're fooling are your own people. You are making fools out of your own. Haha.

    Go zoobs.

  • Naval Vet
    May 23, 2010 11:42 p.m.

    SoUtBoy25:

    "Is averaging 36K over the past two years considered greater than stadium capacity?"

    As has been reported, ad nauseum, Utah has been averaging over 45,000 fans per game over these last couple of years. Even if you crawled out from under a rock and weren't aware of that FACT, it's an easily researched statistic via ESPN.

    So, to answer your question, no, averaging 36K over the past two years ISN'T considered greater than stadium capacity. But since the Utes have been averaging over 45K, then YES, we HAVE been.

  • Utah'95
    May 23, 2010 11:26 p.m.

    Let's all agree never to use the phrase "mother-in-law" in any future posts.

  • Kramer
    May 23, 2010 11:19 p.m.

    The cougars will always out draw the utes in this market and nationally. The LDS population will make sure of it. As far as a Pac-10 move for the utes...it may bring in more money but probably no more wins. Maybe even less. And in this economy, I'm not sure the Money will even be an issue. New TV contracts are sure to be lower(see the NHL and the Big 10's new deals). And Cuttiong up money between 12 schools as apposed to 10. I think the Utes, as well as the Cougars and TCU, should stay put.

  • ute-chute
    May 23, 2010 10:02 p.m.

    re:Utes 31 Tide 17 | 12:26 p.m.

    If Utah and BYU fans were fans of both institutions, both would prosper. Fall and winter should be big for college sports. We have no pro football in the state, and plenty of sports nuts to support both programs.

    Instead of freaking out and twisting blowing things out of realistic proportions, making insightful and thoughtful comments, having discussions instead of silly prognostications ("Ten years from now, with a Rose Bowl or two on Utah's resume"), people would really flock to see both teams play.

    Ten years, 75,000 seat stadium, PAC-10, and two Rosebowls. OK, we might get the PAC-10 invite, and maybe lucky and get to one Rosebowl in 15 years (if it's the PAC-12).

    Otherwise, we stay in the MWC, become a AQ conference, keep winning, get a couple BCS there, and when we start filling our stadium, then we start adding.

    Please DR. Hill, Basketball, and consistent football, then the numbers will follow.

    Invite a BYU fan to a game, and treat them with respect.

    We can have what we want, but you catch mor flies with honey than vinegar.

  • ute-chute
    May 23, 2010 9:50 p.m.

    re:Utes 31 Tide 17 | 12:26 p.m. (cont)

    OK, here's my problem with comments like yours. It's totally unrealistic.

    We cannot throw together two seasons and be a power. I think Kyle is on the right track, but realisticly, BYU has a thirty year headstart on us in football.

    I think we finally have a solid program, but we need to win conssitently to build the program. Basketball also needs to get it's act together to help solidify the fanbase. It's hard to be a Ute Fan year round when we proudly wear red to the football game, and then hide during basketball season.

    I also think it's not smart to alienate BYU fans with classless behavior at the games, on these boards, and in real life. We need to be friendly rivals. I cheer for BYU when they don't play Utah, and I know many people who cheer for the Utes when it's not against BYU.

    If both programs were solid, more fans would support both Universities athletics, Utah would seel more tickets and stadium expansion would not be a dream but a necessity.

    (cont.)

  • ute-chute
    May 23, 2010 9:42 p.m.

    re:Utes 31 Tide 17 | 12:26 p.m.

    "The fact that Utah is already so close behind in ratings is pretty ridiculous."

    With two BCS wins se should not be behind. I think that the basketball team makes us a "one trick pony" Same with the Majerus years. Until we are consistent in both sports, it will be hard to draw a fan-base.

    "Put them in the Pac-10 and annex the stadium to 75,000..."

    Ummm... where do we get the money? Is the PAC-10 going to foot the bill there? The olympic committee already paid for the first renovation.

    "There's got to be a significant number of BYU fans getting tired of Bronco mumbling about execution, and Vegas Bowl victories and 10-11 win seasons being the cieling."

    Right... BYU fans switching because Bronco's team is winning?

    "Ten years from now, with a Rose Bowl or two on Utah's resume, I think we'll be reading a different story."

    Have you looked at the PAC-10? Where are we going to bet two championships in ten years when that's what we have done in the MWC.

    Can we be realistic?

    (cont.)

  • Laser
    May 23, 2010 8:46 p.m.

    Boy even with researched numbers ute fans still can't handle the truth.

    Web-monkey, where do you get your info, I'm afraid you're living in a dream world. You can't be serious with your "guessing" commnent. At least do some research before you speak.

    C'mon u fans get some class. Stop hyperventilating over everything. You have a good program, stop picking fights over every little thing. Your insecurity complex is larger than RES.

  • Granny
    May 23, 2010 7:38 p.m.

    DNews: Could you do a story on "The Mountain?" What are the nitty gritty details on their current contract with the MWC and when will it end?

  • SoUtBoy25
    May 23, 2010 6:21 p.m.

    Navel Vet: "...Utes have been averaging greater than stadium capacity." Is averaging 36K over the past two years considered greater than stadium capacity? Too many empty seats to make that claim ring true even for a prejudiced naval vet.

    Webmonkey: My mother-in-law's tickets that she has had since 1980 have been going up annually almost 2X what they originally sold for; add to that club seating and the result is gate receipts averaging roughly 155% of RES.

  • Wldflwr
    May 23, 2010 6:16 p.m.

    Utes 31 Tide 17 Thanks for the laugh! Take off your crimson colored glasses and get with reality.

    And for WebMonkey....I am one of those season ticket holders you are talking about and, believe me, what I pay is no where near the 1980's price. Where do you get your info, because I need to talk with them.

  • Big_Ben
    May 23, 2010 5:26 p.m.

    attendance smack? really? we are arguing over attendance numbers? sad sad sad day....

    BYU has more fans, that has been the case for a while. And yes, they tend to support their team a little more. Thanks Harmon, yet another gem.

  • Jealous U
    May 23, 2010 3:29 p.m.

    Only a jealous BYU hater like Howard S would try to minimize the impact BYU had on the viewership of the BYU-Oklahoma game.

    Does Howard S really believe the ratings would have been the same if Oklahoma had been playing a team like Tulane? Was it only a coincidence that Barry Switzer was at the game?

    The fact is ESPN was a driving force in putting that game together and BYU has always been a favorite team for ESPN broadcasts.

    BYU was invited to play Oklahoma because ESPN wanted TWO teams that they knew would draw a national audience.

  • Naval Vet
    May 23, 2010 1:54 p.m.

    Golden Eagle:

    "Let's not forget that BYU football games draw 20,000 more fans than Utah games..."

    Let you not forget that RES' stadium capacity is only 45,000 whereas LES' is 64,000....about 19,000 more seats. Considering the Utes have been averaging greater than stadium capacity, your point was pretty stupid.

  • webmonkey
    May 23, 2010 1:37 p.m.

    Here is the truth about the fan bases for BYu and Utah. BYU's in-state base has been erroding for years because less and less Utah residents are attending BYU. Utah's is growing because of their success, but because they are getting more alumni supporting the Utes. BYU might have 65k stadium, but I would argue Utah makes more money at the gate than BYU. You have about 25,000 students attending BYU games paying minimal prices for tickets. Utah is lucky to get 7500 students. Then BYU has all the grandfathered season ticket holders that are paying prices at 1980 rates. Utah has a season ticket base on par with BYU and they are paying current ticket prices. BYU has a larger following out of state, but that doesn't help local TV ratings and gate receipts.

  • Utah'95
    May 23, 2010 1:30 p.m.

    BYU has a larger fan-base, and having Mormons nationwide/worldwide means they have significantly more fans outside of the Wasatch than Utah does. I've lived in three time zones since leaving SLC in '95. Trust me, there are ALWAYS BYU fans in every LDS congregation, but I am usually the only Ute fan attending church wherever I live. We all have our crosses to bear.

    BYU's history of excellent football is twenty years longer than Utah's, so they are more recognized by sports fans without any loyalty to either team.

    Taking into account all sports, BYU's athletic department is the best in the conference.

    I don't pretend to know what will happen with potential conference realignment. But no matter what happens, Utah and BYU will always have a viable rivalry, for both good and bad.




  • Utes 31 Tide 17
    May 23, 2010 12:26 p.m.

    The fact that Utah is already so close behind in ratings is pretty ridiculous. Put them in the Pac-10 and annex the stadium to 75,000... There's got to be a significant number of BYU fans getting tired of Bronco mumbling about execution, and Vegas Bowl victories and 10-11 win seasons being the cieling.

    Ten years from now, with a Rose Bowl or two on Utah's resume, I think we'll be reading a different story.

  • DEW Cougars
    May 23, 2010 12:21 p.m.

    Utes 31 Tide 17? He must be dreaming for PAC10. Anyway, stay tune when the domino begins. But for Boise State we will see if they will be included with MWC.

  • Richard
    May 23, 2010 10:10 a.m.

    Interesting move Dick. I guess the question is who wins the big 12 with BYU or the Pac 10 with U of U? the nice thing is that it's a good move for everybody. I doubt the MWC survives as a auto bid contender without these 2 schools in the mix.

  • Golden Eagle
    May 23, 2010 9:48 a.m.

    Let's not forget that BYU football games draw 20,000 more fans than Utah games, and their basketball games draw 5-10,000 more also. Those are fans that most likely would be watching if they weren't at the game.

    But I also wonder if the data provided by the .mtn excluded viewers outside of the state of Utah. BYU has a lot of national fans, so to compare the teams for the local tv market we would need to base it on only local viewership.

  • Howard S.
    May 23, 2010 6:56 a.m.


    Dick reminds us that BYU, "has attracted national audiences with impressive numbers, which is a big reason ESPN saw to it BYU played Oklahoma last September in Dallas."

    It's a good thing the inaugural date for Cowboys Stadium and Oklahoma were available as props so that ESPN could attract BYU's impressive national audience.

  • GaryS
    May 23, 2010 6:48 a.m.

    "It is difficult to say how BYU and Utah stack up to a national audience..."

    LOL

    I think we all know who has more fans in-state and nationwide. (Hint: it's the one people have heard of east of Evanston and west of Wendover.)

  • Buster
    May 23, 2010 3:08 a.m.

    I actually enjoy watching both teams play.

    I grew up in a BYU household, and I guess I would rather watch BYU beat Utah than the other way around, but as long as the game is competative, I'm fine.

    Boylen needs to go. I miss the man in the sweater. Bring in Tommy Conner, and let's get Utah basketball back where it belongs. At the rate both teams are going, football looks close, but BYU owns basketball for the forseeable future.

    It really is the lower, classless 1/3rd of the Ute fanbase that drives me nuts.

  • Utes 31 Tide 17
    May 23, 2010 2:00 a.m.

    There has never been a more exciting time to be a Ute fan. Leading the mountain west to a possible automatic BCS bid, 6 NFL draftees, 2 undefeated seasons, a possible Pac-10 invite... And 10 wins with a freshman QB is now a "rebuilding year".

    I see the MWC inviting BSU and getting the auto-bid. The BCS is tired of the controversy, and this would enable them to assimilate TCU, Utah, and BSU all at once.

    And once that happens, lets face it, you won't hear much more out of Orrin Hatch or Mark Shurtleff(or most of us) on the issue.