Comments about ‘Protesters at Matheson Courthouse object to death penalty, warrant for Ronnie Lee Gardner’

Ruby Price and the other death penalty protesters need to explain to the families of Michael Burdell and Melvyn John Otterstrom why Ronnie Lee Gardner's life is more valuable than the lives of the two men he brutally murdered.

Ronnie has already demonstrated that he doesn't value life.

I've battled with that reconciliation, believing "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and being a supporter of the Death Penalty. I think it's very clear now that the commandment relates to the shedding of innocent blood. God has condoned capital punishment many times throughout the scriptures and today is no different, when a man like Ronnie Lee Gardner obviously shed the blood of two innocent men, his is no longer innocent blood.

To CG - enforcing the death penalty is not about the value comparison between the murderer and his victim. If that were the case, every convicted murderer should be given the death penalty. The death penalty is more about the statement we make as a society that some types of crimes are so heinous that the criminal actually forfeits his right to live among civilized people.

Although I disagree with Ruby Price, I admire her principled stand on the matter, with one exception. While I believe legitimate arguments can be made by those who oppose the death penalty, I do believe it is a disgraceful and dishonest insult to suggest that lawfully euthanizing the most vile and violent murderers is morally equivalent to the horrific acts the murderers perpetrated upon their innocent victims.

The original meaning of "kill" in "Thou shalt not kill" was murder, and the Bible she believes sanctioned the death penalty for some crimes. A lawful death penalty is certainly not prohibited by any of the 10 Commandments.

DSB | 11:50 a.m.
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I don;t know what Bible you are reading or where you got your information but here's the truth:


~ Thou Shalt Not Kill ~
Exodus 20:13 - Deuteronomy 5:17


The exact Hebrew wording of this biblical phrase is "Lo tirtzack" which accurately translates as "any kind of killing whatsoever."



~Peace

I appreciate Ruby Price's love for humanity. There seems to be finality in death. Many believe that death is truly the end. However, those who read the Bible now that this is not the case. We will have an opportunity for forgiveness even after this life. Gardner, with a much more difficult road ahead of him, still has hopes of forgiveness. It really is up to him...

The great message is that death is not the end! I am writing this, not as a comfort to those who want to see Gardner not executed (because I believe he deserves the death penalty), but for those whom lives he took. We will see our loved ones again!

This time on earth is a probationary period. It is a sacred time and one that we should not squander. We must live life to it's fullest, to love one another and serve one another. Oh how Ronnie Lee Gardner should have taken this advise, but it's too late for him! Men are that they might have joy! This life is a time for us to prepare to meet God. So...how are we doing?

jasonlivy | 12:13 p.m In the Bibles days were created before light and there were talking snakes.

The Bible also recommends the death penalty for those who violate the "Thou shalt not kill" commandment. So I think it's obvious that the Bible condones the death penalty.
But aside from that, I think society needs an ultimate punishment. Otherwise, what is to stop someone who is already facing a penalty of life in prison without parole from killing the police officers who try to arrest him?

RLG has shown that he has nor problem killing again if he thinks it will help him escape. In cases like his, the death penalty is as much a protection for the rest of society as it is a means of justice.

One can parse words with the Bible all day long if they want. The Bible tells you to stone to death people for certain acts, and those acts are short of murder, so if you take "thou shalt not kill" to mean no killing of any kind, the Bible becomes extremely contradictory.

DSB:
When I was in college (in Utah) a professor went off on the predominant religion in Utah and "How could they call themselves Christians and support the death penalty.

My point: if you believe the bible, you believe in the after-life. The state of Utah is scheduling Gardner's appointment with God.

My apologies DSB, we are on the same page.

what does the bible have to do with it. we have laws, and he is someone that the law says must die. to escape he was willing to kill anyone that got in his way. he would do it again if he thought he could get out. to protect others he has to die. we already have to many multible killers in prison. others should stay out fo it, or change the law.

Keep Biblical law out of our government....
God's Laws are not Man's laws.

If you insist on using the Bible as your law book, then:

Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die.

Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be executed.

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God.

If a priest's daughter is a prostitute, she is to be burnt at the stake.

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of cattle.

Don't have a variety of crops on the same field.

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric.

Don't cut your hair nor shave.



And my all time personal Utah-liban favorite:

Anyone with a different religion should die.

Re: LDS Liberal

Gen. 9:6 "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed"

Exodus 21:12 "He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death"

Leviticus 24:17 "He that killeth any man shall surely be put to death"

Numbers 35:30 "Murderer shall be put to death by the mouth of witnesses"

Alma 1:18 "He that murdered was punished unto death"

Alma 34:12 "Law requireth the life of him who hath murdered"

Alma 42:19 "Now, if there was no law given-if a man murdered he should die-would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?"

To LDS Liberal

The root Hebrew word is "ratsach," which has been interpreted throughout history to mean the premeditated murder of a human being. The interpretation you are using has been used more recently to condemn killing all the way down to the killing of ants and even the uprooting and "killing" of plant life.

Read all of the Bible, and you'll see that God justifies not only the establishment of man-made governments to keep us organized, but also that "whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." It takes very little to find many, many Biblical examples of sanctioned killing of other people under allowable circumstances.

Not saying by any means we should assume the mantle of killing for every reason given in the Bible, but to cite "Thou shalt not kill" as Biblical prohibition of our death penalty is a fairly weak argument.

To Iket - for anyone who believes in the Judeo-Christian God, the Bible and its moral code has a lot to do with whatever justification we might use for any issue as ultimately serious as ending another human life.

To LDS Liberal

You only wish that even one Utah Mormon wanted everyone from other religions to die, so you could have even one example in your deluded hate-your-own-kind fantasyland. Since you don't believe non-Mormons should die, you would then be the very best Mormon in Utah, and your hatred of your brothers and sisters would be justified.

Re: LDS Liberal,
Back up just a second there. I must point out a glaring fallacy in your argument. No one here has stated that the Bible should be the basis for our laws. I believe the Bible was first brought up by Ms. Ruby Price, who is a central figure of this article. I agree that the Bible is very severe in some cases and of course we shouldn't follow it to the letter when establishing our laws but if Ms. Price is going to base her whole protest on the one commandment "Thou shall not kill" then it is very appropriate to refer to other bible passgaes that may refute such a statement as an end all position on the Death Penalty.

It doesn't have to be expensive, we allow it to be. I say once they are convicted take them out back and shoot them, than you save the expense of incarceration, and the appeals process.

The death penalty does not deter violent crime. A case for the opposite is stronger. States with the death penalty consistantly have more murders. This has held true for over 20 years. Statistics show that death penatly = more murders.

Re: Critical Thought
Do you have a report you can cite? I fail to see how it's possible that Capital Punishment would, in fact, encourage more murders. I question the method by which numbers were gathered and evaluated. For example, take two states that don't have capital punishment. They probably don't have the exact same per capita murder rate. Why would that be? There are many variables that can influence such numbers, i.e. demographics; income, % minorites, population densities, etc. You'd have to understand those factor and know when comparing a non-Capital Punishment state to a Capital Punishment state that you really are not comparing apples to apples if only the homicide rates are compared.

If what you say is true, then I don't believe it's because of the punishment itself but the method by which it's carried out, i.e. endless appeals, 25+ years on death row, etc. etc. If we want Capital Punishment to be a deterrent then there are certainly ways to make it so, better than we currently have.

It's a MIND-set.

If you advocate and teach your children that killing is wrong - that ALL life is sacred --

but then turn right around tell them;

that the Death Penalty is GOOD,
starting Wars is GOOD thing,
that some people are better and more deserving to live than others,
That killing to better society is a righteous endevor,

You are on an evil and slippery slope.

We watched Europe follow a mad-man using this same logic.



I am Pro-Life.
For me and my integrity -- That means always.

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