We need deeper ethics reform, but that wouldn't have saved this situation when
the big problem happened.Ethics reform would make it more difficult
for a politician to have an pay hush money.Ethics reform wouldn't
have protected the 15 year old girl from the 30 year old man who had been her
primary teacher and would go on to be her Bishop.Ethics reform won't
heal the harm he did to her and her children.I never heard of Garn
before this week, and I hope I never hear of him again when this is through.
One incident occurred while an elected official, the other years before. That
doesn't remove any wrong doing and the citizens of this state, and this country,
have had enough We will not tolerated criminals, we will not tolerate a lack of
ethics, we will not reelect those who are guity of corruption, crime, greed, and
the list goes on. good luck to both men.
Where can I sign this petition? I'm astounded that the Republicans oppose it.
Boy, staying with the Republican party gets harder every day. I know I won't be
voting for my Republican, Clark, here in St. George. I'll give "a hand" and some
cash to anyone who will run against him. Mr. Clark, I don't care how
close of a friend you are to a person. If he/she states they broke laws with an
underage person, it is NOT the time to applaud or thank them for anything! You could have simply said, "Rep. Garn, your statement is acknowledged."
Mr. Noble has already filed to run for the House seat currently held by Speaker
Clark. I'm sure that he would appreciate support, or even another candidate to
enter the race who might have even more support.
Drunken driving - bad. Breaking moral ethics - bad. I wonder why we are
spending so much time on an issue that happened 25 years ago. He admitted it,
he resigned. Enough said. I cannot support the petition by a bunch of
knee-jerk reactionaries. Laws and policy are already in place.
Can it be possible that Utahn's are finally opening up their eyes and seeing
that when a party is allowed to grow too strong and runs unchecked for so long,
that for all practical purposes, the powers that be assume an attitude of
invincibility and believe that they can do whatever they want, whenever they
want.I am very happy to see many of our legislators deep dark
secrets come to light. It is time to truly make Utah a 2 party state again. It
is time to clean house at the state house.
The fact that elected officials have secrets in their past is what opens them up
to extortion and blackmail by lobbyist and other politicians to make and change
laws. It doesn't matter the secret, it's the fact that these skeletons in the
closet can be used against them in their position of trust.This is
why the legislators of Utah do not like ethical and moral oversight. And this
past session and their bleak attempt at ethics reform fell far short of any
changes. The constitutional ethics changes they proposed only insures that the
citizens cannot revolt or ask for any ethical laws. The constitutional change
proposed by our legislators for citizens to vote on is another step in depriving
citizens of accountability from our legislators. The secret in the proposed
ethical commission is more legislative self protections so they don't have to
disclose conflicts of interest or unethical behavior. I don't think our
legislators even know the meaning of ethics and morality. They have been
fighting it for 20+ years.So please people of Utah, do not deprive
ourselves of any more powers of the people and vote NO for this deceptive
When the Utah House gave Garn a standing ovation after admitting to nude hot
tubbing with a minor I wanted to hurl! The House, lead by David
Clark should be ashamed!
-- it is NOT the time to applaud or thank them for anything! --Agreed. A moment of silence to let him bask in his shame is appropriate for
that kind of revelation. The ENTIRE time he was in office he was vulnerable
(and therefore the community) to any type of corruption that wanted to use him
as a political pawn. Good riddance to him and all those that are sure to be
caught in future. Let the ethics reform commence.
Please read the proposal before signing the petition. Guilty until proven
innocent? Any group of people from anywhere can file a complaint against you
at any time? But even worse, if the two parties can't agree on the overseeing
board (which can easily happen) then the people who wrote the proposal get to
decide. Does this sound fair? There are so many things wrong with this that it
should be obvious to everyone who reads it that this is a a bad idea.And just think, we have a balanced budget. Sure, we have cuts but we still
have rainy day funds left and we aren't sending out IOUs to everyone. Our
legislature has done a great job (though I disagree with them on many issues).
Do we need to punish all for the actions of a few? Don't make it more difficult
for them to serve.Please at least READ the proposal before signing
The amazing thing about, Garn's, story is the huge amount of aid he has been
given, in carrying out his deception, by the local power structure. He was not
"outed" by his bishop, his victim's, bishop, any of this family, or even the
local NEWSPAPER! And when he received a standing ovation from his cronies in
the legislature the experience was absolutely surreal.
So, it's getting hard for legislators to "hide anything" in your fish-bowl at
the legislature? Sad, indeed, that you would have anything to hide. Why do you
think we want real legislative ethics reform? The truism that absolute power
corrupts absolutely is demonstrated yearly by those we elect to govern our
lives. Why is it so much to ask that they govern their own lives as well and do
it with at least some kind of quantifiable ethics? Had people known 25 years ago
about such conduct, shouldn't it have made a difference to them. The fact that
the incidents this year were hidden (at least until one got arrested and the
other exposed in the media) is itself alarming, though sadly, not surprising.
What else would we learn if we had but the necessary tools to do so?
Some day, we as the people of this State and Country will vote not for people
who punt moral topics into the ring, but for people who are honest, hard
working, who have successful lives and businesses and who do the best thing for
us people and leave there own bias out of the picture. They waste our tax
dollars and have no morals! I sure hope we can get some ethics reform and while
we are at it, how about term limits. New people, new ideas, more effort for the
people! Moral people don't get elected because of moral platforms. Moral people
avoid politics, and we should change that.
I am not sure people want Mr. Noble involved with state politics at a higher
level. Check his support of non-public type schools and wanting nuclear power
etc. in his involvement with other state politicians to get their goals met.
You can't legislate smarts, judgment or discretion. Hypocracy is a personal
choice, not an accident. Certainly Garn had to go. Killpack might only have been
forced to face the music, a tune that should be filled with sad notes. These
guys let their families down, left their constituents puzzled and themselves in
for a lot of trouble when they lost their smarts, judgment and sense of
Boy, there shure a lot of people out there with a squeky clean past out there
ready to pass judgement. Look at your past. I do not condone what mr Garn done
but it is God who he has to answer to. I would still rather vote republican
than vote democract because of the dispeciable values which the democracts stand
is not what Mr. Jenkins seems to think:"There's no question, it's a
black eye," Senate Majority Leader Scott Jenkins, R-Plain City, said Saturday.
"These are tough times. We, as legislators, live in a fishbowl down there. It's
hard to hide anything."Sadly, ethics is more than being clever
enough to hide your sins and avoid getting caught.I am very
disappointed that this seems to be the level of understanding for ethics and
morality portrayed by our legislators. We trust these men and women
who run for office to be people of character and worthy of the public's trust.
Mr. Garn knew all along of this indiscretion in his past. If you
want to live the kind of life that Mr. Garn and so many others have chosen, then
they need to be in another place besides governing. We should hold
our elected officials to the highest ethical standards, and if they don't want
to live up to the high standards, they should not run. These things come out
eventually, with our without hush money. By lying until getting caught, you
have disgraced your family, your party and our state.
Based my private sector job related interaction with our elected officials and
their self serving lobbyist friends; I have become quite turned-off by Utah
politics. Many of these people seem to place thinly veiled personal agenda
before public interest. The trick, it seems, is to get their personal agenda
satisfied without the public catching on. Take a look at how many of these
people have ownership interest in private businesses. Look at how chummy
lobbyists are with our legislators. Look at how these people (lobbyists &
elected officials) take full advantage of perks available. A bunch of arrogant,
self serving schmoozers who have mastered the art of deception. . Try spending
with a bunch of them…
The problem is that there is a one party system in Utah. The article didn't
even mention the other party, which shows how bad things are. If you want to
restore balance, responsibility and responsiveness to the voters, elect
Democrats. Balance in power is the right way to govern, not a system that is
similar to Putin's United Russia Party.
True Ethics Reform: Voting for another Party.We already have the
ability to check ethics. It is called VOTING THEM OUT. But the electorate is
so mindless here it won't happen. Somehow the Republican Party is STILL aligned
with "purity" in the minds of many. How could it be?
Do these legislators allow teachers to self police? No they have created a
system where any person can make any accusation against a teacher that will lead
to an investigation by professional practices. Teachers must report a DUI to
their immediate supervisor, if not they risk losing their job. Maybe
legislators should be required to do the same, their immediate supervisors of
course being the voters of their district. The ethics bill that was passed by
this years legislature makes it all but impossible to get through the red tape
to find a legislature guilty of any ethics violation.
To oppose petition--Do you know what knee jerk raction is? The petition and
iniative have been in the works long before these scandals. These scandals
illuminate the need for reform.
Too many of our elected official are just not fit for public office. We do need
better laws and regulation because these types of unfit representatives are not
going to police themselves and polititions are so good at lying and
campaingning that we usually do not know what we have elected until after the
It wasn't a "mistake", and the fact that it occurred 25 years ago is
meaningless. Given the power invested in legislators to impact every aspect of
our lives - including the private aspects - they need to meet a higher standard
of behavior than the rest of us. And the idea that the LDS church handled it on
its own instead of reporting it to the authorities, even years later, is
unforgivable. Don't claim more moral behavior unless you actually practice it.
Given Killpack and Garn - who were both legislative leaders...are we really
expected to believe that the State Senate and House can govern themselves? As
Winston Churchill may sayl...not bloody likely.
Where are the criminal charges for Mr. Garn? As by law, this is an act of
lewdness with a minor. This is something that can never be expunged off of your
record, thanks to the legislature and Represenitive Paul Ray. Why is there a
double standard for somebody with power, and the average joe?
I just got done reading the comment that was made by "Senate Majority Leader"
Scott Jenkins on Saturday, according to the msn news site. He makes the comment
that they live in a fish bowl and that it is hard to "HIDE ANYTHING". I would
like to know what he feels as a leader of the people. Just what he has to hide
as well. I dont feel that any GOP Offical should be wanting to hide corruption.
Thats whats wrong with our Goverment now and no wonder this Country is in the
condition its in. Theres no one out there Honest enough to keep our Goverment
Remember these legislators represent us and maybe in more ways than one. They
may have erred so they represent us who have also erred.The great
Master of us all said that 'we love one another even as I have loved you'.
A married man in a position of power seduced a grown woman and brought discredit
and shame to his office. A married man, in a religious position of power seduced
an underaged girl, paid her large sums of money to keep quiet and receives a
standing ovation by all our elected leaders. Both Clinton and Garn did very
wrong things. However in Utah, our willingness to forgive one and villify
another seems soley based on a letter that appears after the persons name.
Wrong is wrong, ethical lapses are wrong regardless of party. Rep.
Clark was way off base in leading the applause show. However, Where is our
Governor in all of this. Why would he not speak out and send a clear message
that he does not tolerate this kind of action and that ovations are not in
order, but resignation is. No lynching should be called for, but dignity and
accountability should be. How sad that Utahns believe that morals
and values only belong to one party. Its time to start looking at people
regardless of party. Garn, Killpack, Utah Citizens have all lost.
Hopefully, this will be a wake-up call for everyone.
Applauding and hugging Garn and the end of his confession says a whole lot about
the ethics problem in the legislature. Sure they want THEIR ethics reform and
not the citizens. Now we know why. These guys will never straighten up using
their own rules. Sign the Ethics petition and rfeally make a difference. Why
are the legislaors using their own money to defeat the citizens petition anyway.
Think about it.
Throw the Republicans out and elect the party of "change you can beleive in"
Barrack Obama to bring back moral ethics? To quote John McEnroe.
"YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!"
I agree with Fred. As a teacher and public servant, I am held to a higher moral
standing simply because of what I do. I think the same can be said for police
officers and firefighters. I have no problem with this, but find it ironic and
pathetic that our legislators are complaining about being unable to hide what
they have done. As a public servant, you shouldn't have anything to hide. If
you do then be willing to face the consequences. Perhaps legislators should
undergo background checks every five years (or new term in their case) at their
own expense like teachers now do in order to renew a teaching license.
The standing ovation by our legislators was disgusting. All of those who
participated should be ashamed of themselves. What message is this sending to
our community? Ethical reform is needed now. But unfortunately Utah politicians
will always protect their own.
Ever heard of the statute of limitations? I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what
it is for this particular offense, would be considered felony lewdness with a
minor I believe. Also, the laws were different when it happened 25 years ago so
it might not have been a felony at that point. Additionally, the victim has to
file charges and she has apparently not done that in the past 25 years.
"Average Joes" get the same treatment when it comes to statutes of limitations
as does anyone with any "power". That is the beauty of our legal system.
Comments such as "We live in a fish bowl down here" in the article embody the
philosophy of legislators. Behave how you want, but for heavens sake be careful
and don't get caught! For this reason, we need ethics reform that deal with and
provide consequences for bad behavior. No party, even in a one-party state such
as Utah, should be immune from consequences, although here it seems to be the
case. People that need to be voted out are not (witness West Jordan) and I would
like to know why. It seems like a no-brainer to me, but I guess in a state where
legistlators are more concerned about passing message bills than acting on
legislation that truly benefits the state, I shouldn't be surprised or shocked.
My question is WHO'S NEXT? I am sure there are more of these guys hiding out
It's time for the adults to be in charge for a change. Bring in the dems.
Reading the comment by Scott Jenkins, " these are tough times. We as
legislators, live in a fishbowl down there." "Down there"? Is it the prevalent
attitude of legislators that they are so far above everyone else that what
people think is "DOWN THERE"?
According to the article in the Trib Garn and his victim and LAWYER met in her
BISHOPS OFFICE in New Hampshire to broker the deal that paid her $150,000. Is
this church policy? Is THAT what bishops do? Can ANYONE justify the churches
involvement at ANY level in this type of activity? The bishops involvement
gives the LDS stamp of approval to paying hush money! HAVE YOU NO SHAME ?
but not from the party of Bill Clinton, Charles Rangel, Nancy Pelosi, James
Trafficant, Blogovich, David Paterson, etc. I would rather have a citizen
elected body elected to establish the rules independent of the legislature or
other elected officials. The precursor is that they must not be attorneys!
Attorneys have a way of distorting truth and making people believe it.
I agree with Fred, too. I feel disgust and humiliation over the standing
ovation. How about an embarrassed apology about THAT?
By ousting these GOP turkeys who oppose citizen involvement in what is
supposedly a democratic society.It makes one wonder what else these
clowns have in their closet.
Maybe this is why Republicans steadfastly oppose ethics reform.
I thought mormons had integrity? Hmmmm, I guess the just press the button if
they are R or LDS days are behind up.
Though we try hard to deny it and some people will argue the point to their
dying day, there really is a difference between professional conduct and private
personal conduct. A person can struggle in one phase of their life while at the
same time excel and perform at a high level in another part. We get into trouble
trying to blend everything together. I've tried, but have yet to find a perfect
person.. at least still living here on earth. Let's encourage each other to
become better people and elevate our general conduct. But if we have to judge,
lets limit our judgements to whatever it was we voted a person to do, and not to
every phase of their personal lives. Otherwise, we're starting to cast stones
and will need to stop and check to see if we're not living in our own glass
houses. As to their political records, both Killpatrick and Garn seem to
have made great contributions to Utah. Let's not overlook those facts in our
zeal to make personal judgements. One last thing on judgments... some people
genuinely change for the better after making mistakes. I hope I have.
While it's true that we should forgive another person's transgressions, we, as a
civilized, God-fearing people, have the right to demand accountability from
those people if they are our elected officials. Both Killpack and Garn are, I'm
sure, sorry for what they've done. Yet, the very fact that they got themselves
in the positions that they found themselves in, speaks to their
short-sightedness and even arrogance. Taken in a broader context, they have
done Utah a tremendous disservice in terms of how our state is perceived by
those outside of our state.Let this be a wake-up call for current
and future Utah state politicians.
Isn't there also an issue of the ethics of this newspaper and possibly the Trib?
If this had been an allegation against a school teacher, would the paper have
remained silent about it even when the perpetrator confirmed his involvement? I
think this is a legitimate question to ask and the article that was run by the
D-News defending their silence was confusing to say the least. Shouldn't there
be some sole-searching by this paper as well?
The D News didn't ask any Democrats about their thoughts? So typical!
Google Utahns for Ethical Government
Is the church a party to cover up in the Kevin Garn crime. When will we know all
The reality is that those with ethical and moral compasses that we can trust are
not drawn to serve in the Utah legislature that often. We are not getting our
best. The only real way to change this is take the Republican Party out of the
hands of Gayle Ruzicka and the Sutherland Institute etc, and Overstock.Com's CEO
etc. Get rid of the insular old boy (and girl) network of loonies that is
perpetuated by our caucus system. Make every Republican stand for a primary
that let's ethical moderates be seen by the voters instead of eliminated in the
caucuses by a minority who attend and vote on their single issue looniness such
as keeping anyone with a community orientation towards anything including public
education out of running. Have a normal primary for every candidate and people
will be able to compare Buttars' ideas or Margaret Dayton's outlandish ideas
with someone else. Now they are killed at the caucuses controlled by the
you want change and ethics reform, then how about instead of complaining about
it in some useless forum, go out and...wait for it.....DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
All you people do is say what should be done but what exactly are you doing to
change anything. Here is a thought, how about we all start by voting every one
of them out! Not sign a petition that won't do anything but show that someone
can sign their name, or start a "tea party" really? a Tea Party? you honestly
think that standing around holding some signs saying your angry does anything?
if you do then there is no hope for this state. Start with the obvious, come
election time when their name comes up? select the other candidate!
Absolutely nothing will change until we get rid of the caucus system amenable to
control by single issue radicals. Make the Republican Party leaders responsive
to the will of the people and give us normal primaries where voters can see the
candidate side by side and judge their ideas and character. Now only those who
attend the caucuses (not normal mainstream Republicans) select those whose
agenda is consonant with the caucus electors (a tiny motivated anti-education,
anti-many things group).
I'm furious at these guys. Their hurting the State and the Party.This, unfortunately, is what can happen when you get one-party rule. As a
loyal, committed Republican, I love the fact that we are a majority rule. But,
as an American and Utahn, it troubles me a great deal. This is what happened to
the Democrats in Mass. They got so corrupt that they began to implode. I don't
want this to happen in Utah.We need a loyal opposition that has some
ability to affect legislation and government. Everything shouldn't be done
behind closed doors.Unfortunately, the National Democrat party has
gone so far left, it has made it just about impossible for most Utahns to vote
Democrat.Let's clean this mess up and get people out of government
who never should have been there to begin with.IF YOU HAVE SKELETONS
IN YOUR CLOSET OR BAD BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS....PLEASE, DON'T RUN FOR OFFICE.
From a post from another article in this paper apparently the LDS Church
released a statement that they had received the 2008 letter, action was taken
but because of confidentialty they cannot release what that action was.
I thought all mormons were perfect? What happened?
I'm not a Mormon, but I denounce your post. No Mormon I know claims to be
perfect. Obviously, they're very human, just like the rest of us.As
for Ethics and Utah Politics - PLEASE, PLEASE CITIZENS OF UTAH - WAKE UP!!! How
much plainer does it need to be that this concentration of power and
self-congratulatory insularity are toxic to our interests and future. Create a
Tea Party, vote for a Democrat, WHATEVER YOU CAN DO, this uniformity of thought
and interests is BAD FOR US ALL.
Speaking of a lack of ethics...Get a load of the people using this
incident to manipulate people's feelings against the republican party, like all
democrats walk on water.By all means, stand up against driving
drunk, inappropriate relationships with minors, and demand that those in
positions of public trust such as teachers and elected officials keep themselves
to a high standard. But at the same time have the moral compass to
admit this is a human problem, and not try to dupe people for political gain.
Human frailty is decidedly non-partisan, and it would be nice if
everyone was smart enough (and honest enough) to acknowledge that. Party-first thinking, by elected officials or public comments here, is a
disease weakening America.
To "The Avenging Angel", Why aren't you doing something about it instead of
GRIPING! How about if you take you avenging wings and fly off to never never
I bet that Garn wished he could "jump" into that Hot-tub time machine and hide
his disgrace, no but seriously he should be charged with the crimes he has
committed, like you and I would be. In this day of no-money and these ridiculous
bills for UPD, how about the law-makers take a cut in pay and give up those
perks they don't need to show their commitment to helping with the short-fall?
WOW what a idea huh?
I think you're missing the point here that political concentration is a
corrupting toxin, in and of itself. Maybe there needs to be a
Pro-Life Democratic party in Utah, or maybe the Tea Party people need to form
their own party, or the Libertarians or whomever, but having everyone in the
same good ole boys club is poison. Do you really believe these
folks are able to polic themselves from an ethics standpoint? I hope you're not
But...but....my mother-in-law always says that the Republicans are the Family
Values party....that they have the monopoly on morality....BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!
I strongly disagree with your comments. A person cannot compartmentalize their
life into a professional area where they are required to be ethical and moral,
apart from a personal area where rules of ethics do not apply.Either
you are a moral person or you aren't. I am not professing to be a perfect
person, but in certain areas I have been. I pay my taxes honestly, I have never
had any extramarital affairs, I have not been involved in any shady business
dealings, etc.Every person who runs for office has a conscience, and
should be able to examine their lives and discern whether or not they can live
up to the higher ethical and moral standard required of elected officials. If
they cannot, they should not run.It is the corrupting lust for power
that clouds their judgment and allows them to try to hide their obvious misdeeds
and seek political office.If a person is immoral in their personal
life, how can you be certain you can trust them with the intoxicating power of
governing, the millions of dollars under their control, and the temptations
posed by greedy lobbyists?You can't!
They hurt Mormonism as well. They are outstanding devout church members. If this
is what is setting next to me in church than I say NO THANKS. Who wants to go to
church and be around evil conniving liars?Garn and the rest of these
men are nothing but hypocrites.
We are not talking about minor indiscretions here. We are talking about Mr.
Killpack's DUI and Mr. Garn's inappropriate possibly sexual contact with a minor
and paying six figures to hide his deed.These are not minor issues
here: we are talking about blatant disregard for the laws that they put on the
books regarding drunk driving, and a willingness to pay a lump sum of more money
than most Utahns make in a year to hide something he was obviously embarrassed
about ever becoming public knowledge.No matter what "good" these two
gentlemen might have done during their terms, their conduct proves they are
immoral individuals. If they had a functioning conscience, they
never should have placed themselves in a position to be elected to public
Poor timing for Romney to campaign at the same time that his Mormon base of
supporters are showing their blind obedience. The rest of the
country finds utah culture odd at best and now they can see the results of a
theocracy in action.
Now with all the new laws involving minor and seems that Kevin Garn will be
heading to the Sex Offender registry, hope he likes it if he wotes for all the
retroactive laws that have been passed and SORNA
U must be related? Or with them in the deals?yOU ARE A JOKE!
Dave Clark should step down immediately as Speaker. He knew about Garn's antics
on Monday, then waited until Thursday night to orchestrate sympathy for him in a
very public way by leading House members in a standing ovation. It was a
calculated effort with a carefully written script. Quite disgusting and brings
a black eye to the entire legislature.
Romney should run. We need him in our country more than ever. This has nothing
to do with Mormonism. The Mormon church will admit that we are human beings.
This is why we take the sacrament each work. I think this is the same for the
Born-agains since I have attended their meetings. They too take the
sacrament.As for this man, leave him alone. He resigned. Now quit
being so sanctimonious.
I think the most upsetting part of the whole mess is that these are people who
profess to holier than thou and put down others and yet they are the ones in the
devils corner. Gayle Ruzicki is another one that will have the shoe drop one of
Just remember folks, THESE are the people YOU voted into office, and remember
that this NOV. He without sin.....but a crime that goes unpunished, is truly a
I just read this on a forum. They know nothing of Garn.As little as 100
years ago, 16 year olds would have been considered old enough to marry in many
parts of the world. It's largely our society that has determined that they are
still children. Biologically, they are adults, able to have children of their
own and full of the urge to do so. I think there was an article in the Guardian
a while back, challenging our notion that teen pregnancy is automatically a bad
thing. It turns out that teenagers are just as capable of being responsible
parents as older people. I think it's time we as a society re-evaluated our
ideas about age.
I'm disgusted. Legislators applauding a colleague who just confessed to a
criminal act and a cover up to boot. This kind of confession needs to be done
outside of the House floor, not trumpeted and flaunted as it was. Whoever
decided to try this stunt deserves to be canned. It was bad form and a black
mark on an otherwise good legislative session.
It is very disgusting to applaude him and hug and consoule even if we dont know
all facts. This was probably about to explode and he beat someone to the
punch....does it make you wonder about all his votes and actions over the past
The government has gone nuts! Utah owns the all.
"The problem is that there is a one party system in Utah. The article didn't
even mention the other party, which shows how bad things are. If you want to
restore balance, responsibility and responsiveness to the voters, elect
Democrats. Balance in power is the right way to govern, not a system that is
similar to Putin's United Russia Party."So you're suggesting that we
replace those that advocate morality but sometimes don't live up to it, with
those who advocate immorality and live up to it?
"Though we try hard to deny it and some people will argue the point to their
dying day, there really is a difference between professional conduct and private
personal conduct."Really? The reason that some will argue the point
to their dying day is because it's TRUE!You cannot separate the two.
An individuals personal integrity and morality will always influence their
professional conduct. Or are we to believe that personal integrity and morality
is not that which defines who we are as individuals, and ultimately who we are
as a nation collectively. If an individuals family cannot trust
them, then surely a city, county, state, or nation cannot trust them.When one attempts to play both sides of the fence, they qualify themselves as
candidates of the psychological disorder "split personality," or as we call it
in layman's terms, hypocrisy. How is it that when their personal
immorality comes to light that they then feel unworthy of the high office, but
not before."Moral law is the law." It always has and always will be
the foundational governing principle upon which all legitimate law and the
proper conduct of societies originates.
Is there something in the water in Davis County? Coincidence or a larger
pattern of electing people who profess one thing in public and another thing in
private? Wake up Davis County and elect people of integrity.
Hooray for good, old-fashioned Republican values!
Re: "Davis County (9:32)"The same question equally applied to Utah
County just one session ago; and, fortunately many have now gone.I
vote that we set term-limits. Then after a few years, we can elect another set
of "ethical" people to replace outgoing "ethical" people.Don't just
establish term-limits at the state level, but hit the national level as well.
Utah politicians - don't you love them? Letterman and Leno are going
to have a field day with this stuff. ROFL
It seems like Republican leaders want to reframe the discussion -- they want to
talk about how the legislature was able to "get the job done" during the past
legislative session. But that is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Unethical
people can, perhaps, "get the job done" even better than ethical people but the
debate is about ethics, not about execution.
Morally superior Utah Republican politicians!And then to watch as
his fellow legislatures hugged and congratulated him on keeping this story
undercover for so long.Pathetic.
The difference is Republicans RESIGN when they do immoral things. Democrats
don't. That's the difference between having morals and not. If you have no
morals, there's no standard to which you are held. I'd rather have politicians
that have standards, and occasionally fail to live up to them, than ones who
have no standards, and thus, can never be labeled "hypocrites."
Huh? That is the biggest pile of stinking you-know-what I've ever seen on this
board. Plenty of Democrats have failed to live up to ethical standards, and
have paid the price. Massa as the latest example. The difference
between the two parties is that the Republicans love to tell us all how morally
superior they are, and run on the moral issues, while pretending they are immune
to ethical lapses. But why not, seeing as you blind Republicans
will even find a way to paint them as some ethical patriot when they do screw up
(say by paying $150,000 to cover up an affair). It clearly doesn't matter what
they do, you'll just make up some ridiculous claim about how they just slipped
Some have said Garn needs to be prosecuted. The big question is, did his
actions constitute a felony or a misdemenor. If his actions were a misdemenor
act of indecent exposure, as some have claimed, than the statute of limitations
ran out in by the beganning of 1988. On the other hand, if his actions
rose to the level of being a felony, since the wording is "within four years of
the reporting of the incident", and IF Ms. Maher had not reported this incident
to police prior to this last week, when she got it into the press, so I am
fairly certain the sttute of limitations clock has began ticking, than Garn can
be prosecuted anytime as long as it begans in before March of 2014.
However, the question is what statutes, as they existed in 1985, did Garn brake?
Since the constitution forbids ex-post facto laws, he has to be tried under the
1985 laws. Criminal charges against him for crimes committed in 2002
would be a different story.