I don't know about other districts, but Alpine School District spent $195 per
student for transportation in 2008-09, according to the "Stakeholders' Report
2009". The report is mailed to every residence in the district yearly and can
be found online at the district website. We also had a limit of one
field trip per class imposed because of budget cuts, we continue to have that
limit. So, our transportation costs have gone down significantly from
Charter schools don't have transportation costs. How much do regular Public
schools pay for transportation? Also, the $500 bandied about isn't true of all
schools. Traditional public schools have different funding bases so look at the
district comparisons. The lower funding per students are at the charter rate
without transportation costs. We should compare district costs with the
charter schools within the districts-that would be interesting!
Apparently you have believed everything Sen. Stephenson and others have told
you. Here is a reality course for you:1. Charters have the same
educational requirements with some exceptions. The largest being an enrollment
and class size cap. Districts do not have this luxury.2. There is
no tuition charged, but the school receives State funding through the WPU for
every student. And now they will receive an additional $200 per student that
the Districts will not receive!3. I have done the research and the
3 Charter Schools in my area are doing 5-30 percentage points below my District
School. Some Charters are doing great, most are doing average, and some are
doing sub-average work.4. The "overall record" is what the Feds
look at when determining if the school is passing or failing AYP. This one fact
makes it highly important, at least until NCLB is revoked or replaced.5. Charter Schools currently cost less, but Charters are wanting equal
funding. Charters promised they would do better with less money. You don't
have to report to every resident how you use that money, there is no truth in
taxation when it comes to Charters.
Carolyn, congratulations on your high test scores that is great. The problem
with the charter school debate is those on the charter school side want to
cherry pick which schools we talk about, as you just did. No doubt there are
some outstanding charter schools. But you folks never seem to want to talk
about the not so great charter schools. If we are going to compare apples to
oranges, lets compare all the apples to all the oranges. Another thing charter
advocates don't like to talk about is that research shows that students whose
parents are involved in their education perform at a higher level. I would
think that reasonable people could agree that a much higher percentage of
charter school parents are involved in the students education than the parents
at public schools. That means EVERY charter school should have a higher
percentage of students passing standardized tests than traditional schools,
which of course is not happening. Final statement to answer your question why
should you do it for less? Because you said you could and would, remember that
was the advantage of charter schools.
The charters by me score 10 - 15% LOWER on the state CRT tests than the real
school the local kids go to.Also who is this Sharette lady that is
always on here? Does she run a charter school? If so shouldn't she be running
in instead of constantly telling us how great her school is?Just a
thought from an old timer...
We have already had some students attend prestigious universities - but I am not
sure why going to a Utah university would be considered subpar. Some of the
engineering and technology programs in Utah are excellent (among other programs)
- students come from all over the world to attend them.And by the
way, there is no such thing as "teaching to the test". I would like you to come
and try to do it if you believe there is. The skills learned to be able to
succeed on language arts tests are: - reading carefully and
accurately - being adept at picking out main ideas as well as small
details that impact meaning - making inferences and drawing conclusions - understanding questions - summarizing information - identifying
mistakes and errors (discrimination skills)When we teach students
these skills through studying quality literature and practicing them, we are
developing scholars who find state exams quite easy. These skills are necessary
for anyone to become a proficient scholar - and cannot be classified
simplistically as "teaching to a test".With regard to a writing
test, I am sure you can imagine it is impossible to "teach to the test". The
student can write or can't write. Ours can!
With 100% of your students passing state exams, your school could either be
providing the very best education in the state or your teachers teach to the
test. If your students are so much better educated, I look forward to seeing
how many of them get accepted into top ten universities when they graduate from
your school. My hunch is, though, they will go to the same universities
everyone else in Utah does. Your test scores reflect teaching to a test, not
ivy league education.
Stanford's comprehensive study proved that charters nationwide are NOT
performing on par with their public school counterparts. 36% of charters
perform worse on standardized tests, while only 16% score higher. The rest are
within a standard deviation of 5%. Charter school movement: the greatest
ripoff of the 21st century!
all you parents that want to take money from the traditional schools for your
charter schools just keep your hands of my tax payer money and pony up the funds
to put your kids in private school? And know, some of you with five kids in
school don't pay taxes too (you probably get money back from earned income
Fred- we receive about $500 less per student than the local public schools.Our students score well above the district schools.Isn't
that "doing it better for less?" So I guess it really isn't a lie.100% of our 5th graders passed the state language arts exam last year. 100%
of our 9th graders passed the state writing exam last year. Yes, we
do it better for less, but we shouldn't have to accept lower funding just to
make some people feel good about giving citizens the choice to send their kids
to a charter school. As if because it is cheaper, it is somehow okay but if it
costs the same it isn't okay to give parents the choice? That doesn't sound
like America to me.
you don't understand it. Charter schools get the WPU. The WPU will go down
because growth was not funded in public schools across the board. So charter
schools WILL take a cut because they will receive a lower WPU amount for each
student, just like all the other public schools.Charter "growth"
being funded just means that some of the new kids coming into the system will be
allowed to enroll at charter schools.The amount charters receive for
them will be less, just as it is in the other public schools.Fred -
you got it wrong but it's okay to make mistakes! This is a pretty complicated
issue and it is hard to stay on top of it.
"WE CAN DO IT BETTER FOR LESS" the battle lie of charter schools. Public ed
gets no money for growth, so in essence they are getting a 5% cut, and charter
schools are getting money for growth, so they are getting 0% cut. If public ed
was getting no cut and charter schools where getting a 5% cut Mr. Stephenson
would be going ballistic. If you can't get vouchers in the front door, then get
them in the back door I always say.
You are the best. You always do what needs to be done, even when most people
don't understand it.You are a true hero. Thanks for giving your
time and energy as a legislator. You keep moving forward and are willing to
lead, which is rare these days. You take harsh criticism from
ignorant people - and still are willing to lead - to try to do the right thing,
especially for Utah's school children. THANK YOU from a grateful
Yes we do! We currently receive about $500 less per student than traditional
public school students.Scores at our school are 20 percentage points
above the state average in some cases and double digits above our local district
scores.So I guess it is unequivocal, WE DO MORE WITH LESS. (But we
shouldn't have to and we deserve equal funding).
There are some "high - rep" learners on these boards! So just for you:1. Charter teachers have the same requirements as all public school
teachers.2. No one "pays" for a charter school education.3. The research (do your homework - it isn't hard to find!) shows that on a
student by student comparison basis, charters do better. If you can't
understand the distinction I am making between school comparisons and similar
student comparisons, again - do your homework!4. If you want to
keep looking at the "overall record" which doesn't tell you anything about how
charters are actually doing to serve particular students, go ahead but that is
useless to this discussion.5. Charter schools cost the taxpayers
LESS. Again, do your homework.
My son has a severe learning disability that prohibits him from participating in
a standard classroom without extensive support. However, he is thriving as a
9th-grade student at the Open High School of Utah. We see the difference every
day between his OHSU classes and teachers - all of them not only certified but
BRILLIANT at what they do - and the teachers and administrators at our local
school.Charter schools are innovating the future of education. They
ARE doing more with less - proving that they deserve even more. The rest of the
public school system needs to either stop crying when the money they are
receiving for students they are NO LONGER TEACHING gets moved to the schools
that are actually doing the teaching, or CHANGE their own failing system.
can even match regular public schools in terms of academic performance I say
only give them funding for a probationary period; if they can match performance
I say cut the funding. I don't want my tax money going to some parents pet
project charter school that can't even cut it academically (and the overall
record isn't looking very good in that area folks).
My kid has done great at a Charter School in Salt Lake City. I have had to
figure out how to get him to school (no bussing for charter schools) and get him
fed (no cafeteria or food services for charter schools).But all they do is
focus on Education at the charter school. They don't get caught up in the
district politics and they don't worry about serving food or bussing. They just
focus on great education. My son as FAILING in the regular public
education situation with it's huge class sizes and cookied cutter approach to
education. Sorry ... but teaching a kid is NOT a mass production. The
smaller class sizes at the charter school are what my kid needed to thrive ...
finally ... after 5 years of regular public Education.
Once again Stephenson tries to sneak in legislation at the last second that will
benefit him financially.Anonymous at 9:38 was right on. If the
charters can't do what they said they could, they are a failure. We should put
an end to the double cost of charter schools. FAIL!
There remains no conclusive argument of evidence that Charter Schools are one
whit better or more successful than regular public schools. Dividing the funds
even further to allow for Charter Schools isn't responsible in view of the
pitiful amount we spend per pupil in Utah. Accountability in Charter Schools is
minimal at best and until we can afford to spend a comparable amount on our
children in public schools, maybe Charter Schools should go by the way. The big
down side for legislators who are involved in building and construction is that
without Charter Schools they won’t be able to continue to benefit from
their Charter School legislation by feathering their own private business
Pathetic.They claimed they could do more with less.By
asking for more, they are a failure.I proclaim the Charter
experiment a complete failure and call for its end.
IS that they don't have the same requirements for their teachers that the public
schools do. So in a sense the school is a venture to capitalize of public
schools, rather than a venture to better educate! This is evident by the
demographics that are accepted to these schools and the limited number of
students per teacher.If public school teacher has the same form of
class I would be willing to venture that those students would far exceed those
being taught in charter schools. If you want to succeed the answer isn't to
isolate the smart kids and only accept those that are willing to pay for a
smaller class size, it's to decrease the student to teacher ratio within public
schools and provide teachers with the necessary tools to increase their students
success! Then by evaluating teachers from the level of success you will be able
to sustain a higher level of education which is always talked about but never
These changes are needed, and even required. The thousands of
students attending public charter schools are currently being funded at about
$500 less per student that students attending traditional public schools. Other
states have faced the same issue and changed the funding formulas to ensure all
public students receive equitable funding.To not do so would likely
create a legal problem for Utah so this was a smart move - not to mention a fair
one.Charter schools have no relation to vouchers by the way. No
connection. Meaning: not the same thing. Not comparable. Different
discussion. Not sure how else to say it so the anti-voucher folks can
understand (maybe they need to focus a little on their own education - it is
embarrassing that they cannot distinguish the difference).
If 42,000 students have chosen to transfer to a public charter school, why does
the district they left get to keep the tax dollars paid to the district? Shouldn't the money follow the student to the public charter school?
I think that the spending on charters is not the most responsible thing to do
right now and is a step away from promises they have made to not impact funding
of standard public schools, but the voucher issue is not related. Vouchers are
for private schools not charters. Parents with students in private
schools are still paying taxes that go to public schools and easing the burden
on the system by taking students out of it. I still believe that middle to
lower income families that are willing to make this sacrifice (paying tuition)
should recieve a voucher that represents some portion of what they are putting
into the system. But again, vouchers are another story and not really on the
table right now. My real problem with charters in Utah is that they
mostly benefit the wealtier demographics based on their locations, ease of
access, and other practices. The door is technically open for all students but
the ease of access isn't equal. In addition, charters in Utah are given very
little freedom to innovate and actually expirement with alternative structures
and practices that could benefit the public system.
Even with this increase in funding, Charter Schools remain the cheapest
education choice for Utah taxpayers.
Charter schools are public schools, therefore they should have equal funding.
Vouchers have nothing to do with charter schools.
When they are making massive cuts across the board, the last place they should
be boosting funding is for charter schools. Vouchers were voted on and struck
down. Get over it already and quit trying to take back door revenge with last
minute legislation like this.