Now I remember. Charter schools won't in any way take money away from public
schools. We promise. Unless we can figure a way to make a late night change
and sneak it through without the voters being aware. After all we are the best
politicians that money can buy. Never forget we take care of our friends.
So apparently the promise to do a better job for less money was a lie? Every
year charters come back complaining that they are not being funded like
traditional schools, and every year their buddies in the senate give them more
money at the expense of the traditional public schools. I thought the goal for
charters was to be different, more effective, more efficient. Apparently the
goal is be funded like traditional schools but have flexibility unavailable to
traditional schools. The agenda becomes clearer every day.
Thank you house members for choosing to make a debated informed decision,
instead of a quick rash decision.One shining moment for House.
Fred - how about just a flat per student funding - and it goes where the student
goes? I pay taxes - I figure my property tax money should go to my kid.
Traditional school didn't work for my kid - the administration in our our huge
district just doesn't get that a one size fit all education doesn't work for
every kid. I have a bunch of kids - have done both charter and traditional
school - with a bit of private preschool thrown in - some of it even spent in a
title one school - which was hands down the absolute best elementary school of
the four we've now attended. Funding and class size was key at that school -
and hands down - it does make a difference. Parent's should have a choice - and
if traditional schools are cutting it - they shouldn't feel threatened....
...I think you've got it!
"I pay taxes - I figure my property tax money should go to my kid."I
also pay taxes but have no children. Would you also support the "choice" for
someone like me to CHOOSE what school my property tax dollars go to?If you can choose, why can't I choose my property tax dollars to go to the
traditional public school where my niece and nephew go! Great Idea!
To anon: You just don't get it do you? There is no such thing as a flat rate
for each student. Every child has different needs, and the more needs a child
has the more it will cost to educate them and conversely the less needs the less
it will cost. How about we let you take "your property taxes" with you to any
school to educate all of your kids. I doubt that would go very far.The point is that we were promised that charter schools would not take funding
from our traditional public schools and now our legislators have changed their
minds...not that I am surprised.
Charters originally were set up getting the money from the Districts. That
created a very hostile environment. I am quite sure going back to that will
once again bring up bitterness.The state SHOULD pool all the
property taxes and distribute it evenly per pupil. That would help balance
funding everywhere. Of course this would upset people who have the most
funding, and it would never fly.
Another 11th hour sneak attack--doesn't matter what state or what party, this is
what politicians do...they're all scoundrels.
If you agree or disagree with this bill the timeing by Senator Stephensen is
certainly interesting. This component should have been included long before
last night. This is typical of the approach that certainly creates a lack of
trust. This issue should have been included in the discussions from day one.
It is hard to believe that Senator Stephensen didn't have this planned long ago
but waited to introduce this issue until he was in a position that was more
powerful. This is not the way to change public policy!
The ugly head of the 'voucher movement' now appears again. While we need to
address funding for charter schools if we continue to allow them, bringing this
legislation up at the last minute is not right nor fair.Our
politicians wonder why the pubilc does not trust them? This is great example of
why that is the case. To me it appears sleazy and unethical. We need the
citizens version of ethics reform, not one orignating from our legislture. They
can't be trusted. I have idea - Let's vote them all out and begin with fresh
folks and fresh ideas. It certainly could not be worse than what we have
now.Up with the people! Down with politicians!
The district should fund charter schools IF they have decision over granting the
charter. You can't have the state grant the charter and then tell the district
it's your problem, pay for it.
Why didn't Stephenson take this idea to the committee? Why did he wait until
the last day of the session?
to thelma12One reason....political pressure while holding the public
ed budget hostage!
Why does Senator Stephenson continue to try and find ways to punish public
education? It is time to vote him out of office. Its time to impose term limits
on the Senate and House of Representatives.
Best news I heard all day. I do not support charter schools
Vouchers, charters, district splits, teacher layoffs, administrative salaries,
Board controversies, 7/8 in high school, patrons complaining about increased
taxes yet pushing 6-7 kids per family into the public ed. system? Thank
goodness I have got my 30 in and can sit back and watch the self-immolation of
education unfold before my eyes with little personal ramification. Short
sighted adults, you will pay so dearly for this within a decade. I can't wait
to see it. The only real solution? We all know it but are prevented from
stating the obvious . . . a head tax. But I don't care. You can disagree all
you want, but you'll eventually get it.
...Governor Herbert for being a voice of reason with the Senate. This was the
correct decision for this funding bill.
I pay property taxes and have no kids, so therefore I should have a choice to
not pay property taxes to schools.
If districts have to pay for charter schools then the voters should decide to
allow new charter schools to be built or not. Otherwise, the state school board
has a defacto ability to raise property taxes on voters every year. I don't
know about you, but my right to vote on a property tax increase is important to
me. With this new scheme, that right would be taken away and given to the ever
growing state government and a small group of people on the state school board.
I sometimes wonder if our legislature prefers some other government than our
current republic, because they sure don't act like it.
This is familiar ground for Senator Stephenson. He used a similar approach with
the last minute omnibus bill last year.
Big thank you to the House of Representatives and Governor Herbert for killing
this last minute funding sneak attack against our public schools.
Vote em all out of office!
It is time to rally around a proper commitment to education. Utah spends far
less per child, than the next highest state, Tennessee.However, Utah
has a top national education system and student scores, as well as teacher
"highly qualified," status, i.e., education level, training and additional
education, is far and above the rest.A more educated society is a
more stable society, a society with less crime, a society with a higher voter
turnout and certainly a society that is economically sound.The more
you pay teachers, the more attractive the job becomes and the better candidates
are hired. Ask yourself, do you want a society not committed to well-educated,
much-experienced doctors? We pay them well because we value them. Senator Stevenson values himself. He values ideas which places him in a
position of authority, which is more of hidden-politics, rather open and
educated decisions.Stevenson sees himself as the one who wants a few
with knowledge and decision-making ability, where the few in power rule the
many, keeping them ignorant of his well-conceived plans to keep the people
ignorant.The money is there--place your trust in education, not
in what he did. None of the previous posters seem to know the history. For
FOUR YEARS Sen. Stephenson has worked during the "interim" to come up with an
EQUITABLE solution to the problem of districts keeping all the funding for the
kids they no longer serve (charter school students). Jordan district MAKES more
than $500,000 annually for each charter school in its district. With many
charter schools, it is several millions of dollars they "keep" - they BENEFIT
FINANCIALLY from charter schools in a BIG way.The districts should
not be able to "keep" the local funding for charter kids. It is immoral and
dishonest. The districts know this. Rep. Bigelow told us "get together with
the districts and come up with a compromise". WE DID. We came into the session
with the districts agreeing that the missing funds come directly out of the
income tax, effectively lowering the WPU slightly, and that's how the districts
would "pay" for charter students.Bigelow backed out AGAIN - didn't
like our solution. Stephenson got fed up and said we must fix it somehow and
took action.Stephenson is a hero. We need more public SERVANTS like
The whole premise of charters was that they could do more for less. They
wouldn't take away any funding from real schools.Stephenson even
said so himself if I remember right.Now they are changing their
tune?If so, I declare charters a complete failure and ask that the
gov't give back control to local schools. Stop the gov't mandates and give
control back to locals.Isn't that the republican mantra?
WE DID! Sounds like you are getting something out of this, in order to make
Stephenson your hero.For me, charter schools is a simple issue.
Until politicians, such as Killpack, Morley and others get totally out of the
charter school "business" I am against them.The process is tainted.
I find a BIG difference in fighting for public funding of our schools, as
opposed to fighting for public funding of charter schools that have made people
a lot of money.Follow the money. I believe the educational system
can be improved and should be improved, but putting money into legislative, and
other personal pockets, is not the way I choose. Legislators often have a very
narrow agenda (theirs) rather than the broad agenda of providing the best for
whole. Charter schools are great, if that is what you want, but NOT with my tax
You have a lot of power to declare Charters a Failure for everyone else. You
should run for office!Charters have been the single most successful
part of Utah Public education policy in the past fifty years. We are very close
to making entire districts into Charters. With JSD and CSD prime and ready for
a turn over we can truly revolutionize public education.
Perhaps, we that pay the taxes felt that our public education was doing the job,
there wouldn't be so many charter school popping up.
You wrote "Utah has a top national education system and student scores, as well
as teacher "highly qualified," status, i.e., education level, training and
additional education, is far and above the rest." WRONG!!!!Please
check out the Nations Report Card put out by the federal government every year.
Utah is among the bottom in reading scores for 4th grade. The scores in Utah are
shocking low across the board.People always say that we have a very
high graduation rate, this statement is true. What we are not often told is
that the requirements to grad in Utah are far, far, far more lax than almost
anywhere else in the country. Our graduates know less than they should.After you have spent time digesting the information included in the
federal report, then check out the scores from Utah charter schools. Some are
low, and they go out of business. Some are shockingly high! What are they
doing right? This deserves more attention, more money and more praise, not
elective blindness and bigotry.
Who paid for your education?
going to vote in more moderate representatives and senators rather than the
self-serving Stephenson and the likes of Butters (can you say too far to the
right radicals). I'm tired of only the views of the extreme right being
adequately represented in Utah (and I'm pretty conservative on most things, just
not selfish and radical). Most of the pubic is rational realizing that the
views on the extremes of both parties tend to be for the benefit of the few whom
share their skewed views of the world.
the commenter’s who think that public education is going to be privatized
(or should be) or that charters will take over the world. When you are right
wing radicals going to realize your views are in the extreme minorities and the
rational people such as myself outnumber you greatly. Enjoy your day in the sun
with your far right legislators on the Hill because thankfully the day of the
extremes of both parties is going to come to an end as people are getting sick
of lefties and righties forcing their self-serving agendas on the rest of us.
We have had our children in charter schools for 7 years in AZ and now for 3 here
in UT. People can fight it all they want but the charter movement is here to
stay and it needs to be embraced. UT takes a very controlled approach to
charters, which is a little frustrating but it has avoided many of the problems
there were with AZ charters. Bottom line is that the charter movement in AZ has
improved "public" education all around, as "public" districts have had to
compete for students. We all realize there are serious problems with our
education system, and something has to happen. We all pay similar
sales/income/property taxes that support the general education of our youth.
When my 5 kids are out of the system, I (and they) will be paying for the
education of many generations to follow. It just makes sense that there should
be a per-pupil amount that should go to the school where the pupil is enrolled,
including charters. I don't want to get into the voucher issue, but the logic
there should really be the same - give the pupil their funds!
To "I think it is funny":So is your buddy Obama a right-winger? He's
the one really pushing charters at a national level! In California and Arizona,
it's not just right-wing republicans pushing charters. I haven't seen any polls,
but even in our republican-dominated state I bet there are numerous liberals and
independents who are embracing the charter movement, if they really give it a
I agree. I declare charters a complete failure on the funding issue and call
for their demise.
Governor Herbert is doing a great job. He could just tow the party line but he
does what he and just about every other Utahn knows is right. He has shown that
in spite of threats from his party and the ilk he is willing to do what is
right. Sure, I may not like some of his stances but at least he is a man with
integrity. There are certain people in the legislature that are only there for
their one political issue. (Getting rid of public education is the big one for a
lot of Utah politicians).
And up the per pupil funding at the same time? Then get rid of all the
districts, convert all schools to charters, give the teachers and the parents
full control, elect a principal from among the teachers. The State Board can
provide some pooled resources that the districts now provide - but you can dump
all the rest of the overhead.Need to pay for new schools in growing
areas? Fine, start assessing developer fees on every new house - $4K to 5K
ought to do it. Suddenly all the JSD/CSD drama is gone (what a shame), and all
the charter/regular school drama is gone too. Not to mention the math wars of
ASD. Kids changing schools in the middle of the year causing a
problem? Change how you determine attendance. Some states do an average daily
attendance - no reason why this couldn't be done on a monthly basis and schools
funded accordingly. Wouldn't make any difference to the state, they don't care
which school you go to, the budget for the year is still the same. But it would
fix the problem for individual schools.
have a popular vote (isn't that the purest form of democracy) and see the
majority want charters. If they do, fine, fund them fully. If not, bye bye
charters. I am sick of special interest groups getting there way. By the way,
if charters are so great, why do they score lower on the whole on standardized
tests than traditional public schools? I don’t won’t my tax payer
money (and I pay more than most due to income) diverted from my district
obviously you only read what you want to (or are you just obtuse) as I said
righties and lefties are the problem. Let's look at America's most dominant
period (last 100 or so years) what has been the educational model that got us
there? Hum, I know public schools. Sorry radicals, you don't have any empirical
evidence, especially for the schools in this state, justifying the need to rob
from the public schools for your pet projects at might tax payer expense.
How about some more cost savings? Be like Beehive Academy (public charter school
in Holladay) and buy all kids a UTA pass. Right now we have UTA buses that are
mostly empty at rush hours, totally empty the rest of the time. Then we have
school buses that are packed before and after school, but collecting dust most
of the time. Seems like if you could have schools all be 9:00 to 4:00 we could
all save a ton of money and improve our public transit system. Don't know what
you'd do about student safety for the younger kids though - so many perverts out
So just do it for the high schools - they use the buses more than the elementary
schools anyway (bigger territory with more students outside of walking
distance). Middle schools, well, let the parents vote. You can still run the
special ed buses as needed - that's a tiny fraction of the total.