Comments about ‘BYU first, Harvard second on U.S. News & World Report's enrollment-percentage list’

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Published: Thursday, March 11 2010 12:00 a.m. MST

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Facts, Again, Are Funny Things

OK, let me see if I can walk you through this process.

We are discussing USNEWS "America's Best Colleges" ranking (this is where we are getting the 71 and 126 numbers). Surely, you saw that USNEWS also ranks "America's Best Graduate Schools," right? Did this make you think that there was a distinction in the rankings?

OK, within the category of "America's Best Colleges," they rank the undergraduate ranking of LIKE universities. One of those categories is National Universities and another is Liberal Arts Colleges. If you check the methodology section of the rankings, it is clear they are ranking undergraduate programs of National Universities (they state it explicitly and implicitly by tracking ACT/SAT, not GRE/MCAT etc..). That is so you know the environment of your undergraduate experience, NatU will have tons of students and grad students, LibA will only have a couple thousands students and few grad students.

If given the time we could go into how the word "college" connotes undergraduate education, with "university" as a larger catch-all. You obviously aren't getting the ranking thing anyway, so don't worry your little head about it.

re: re: Facts are....

america's best colleges refers to undergrad. they rank graduate programs too. they even rank world universities that take into account both undergrad and grad prestige. facts are funny things is right. also, utah does rank higher than BYU on their top 400 in the world, BYU isn't listed... no bid deal though

A BYU Alumni in NYC

I remember the Letter from BYU awarding me my scholarship for my Freshman year in 1982- full tuition for a semester was $605. Can you believe it? BYU provided me a good education. It's easy to see why it's students want to go their - the church's underwriting of the cost makes it a good value.

Re: Proud to be part of the 22%

This message responds to Re: Proud to be part of the 22% at 1:58 p.m. (and to the original post to which you responded)

I had the same experience. I have been LDS all of my life (grew up in Utah), love the LDS church, applied to both BYU and the U of U (and some other schools), got in to both schools, and chose to attend Utah.

I loved my experience at the U. I was not at all surprised at the many, many opportunities I had to interact with other LDS students. I enjoyed interacting with students who lived "Honor Code" standards even though their university did not force it on them. It was easy to tell who really loved the gospel and embraced church standards and who did not. I loved (most of) my professors. I rarely encountered what I would consider "anti" LDS professors. I also enjoyed learning from people with different beliefs than I have (many of my professors were LDS, many were not). I believe that greatly enhanced my education.

I am amazed at the one-track mind of so many BYU types who think no other experience can compare.


BYU probably has the cheapest tuition and best value and this is even more important for students while in a recession...

Expect tuition prices to go up at BYU now.... And the cost may go up quickly to eventually match the cost at the other universities that they are being compared with.

U of Wash offered a full ride...

U of Washington offered me a full ride scholarship and virtually assured me a path to med school. I chose BYU instead. It was the second-best choice I ever made in my life, second only to marrying my wife (a BYU student).

Those of you who went elsewhere and loved it: Good for you. I'm glad you enjoyed your experience. I'm glad you didn't go to BYU. Please feel free to steer your children clear of those narrow-minded Zoobies at BYU.

I have brainwashed my own spawn to want to go live in Provo for their college years. Given how competitive BYU admission has become the last decade or so, I welcome you to farm your own kids off to the local university, where they too can enjoy the feminist lectures on how all men are rapists and the mind-expanding presence of militant homosexuals condemning all who don't overtly support their noble struggle. My kids seem to want to have that mind-numbing, soul-limiting experience that is BYU. I couldn't be happier.

SoCal Andy

I had a scholarship to attend BYU in the 70's, chose Utah instead and don't regret it for a minute.

I have sent two daughters to BYU and don't regret that either.

Re: U of Wash offered a full ...

I am amazed at the ignorance of your comment: "I welcome you to farm your own kids off to the local university, where they too can enjoy the feminist lectures on how all men are rapists and the mind-expanding presence of militant homosexuals condemning all who don't overtly support their noble struggle."

People joke about the "bubble" that is BYU, and I try to not believe that, but wow. I applied to both Utah and BYU, got into both, and attended Utah. I never heard any of the lectures to which you refer and never came across any militant homosexual. In fact, I had a great experience as an LDS student. I too met my wife at school, and we love serving in our ward.

If my kids want to go to BYU, so be it, but I pray they will not come out with the narrow-minded view of the world that you have. Even if students really did routinely run into "militant homosexuals" and heard "feminist lectures," they will hear plenty of it in the world, so why not learn how to hear it and keep a testimony at a young age?


Thanks for the background on your own education and your parenting philosophy, although unsolicited, it was a nice detour . I think you have provided the best example of what many on here think is the problem with your attitude and frankly this article. The suggestion is that somehow BYU has exclusive rights to the correct type of education. What we should all understand, and I think what you fail to, is that edification can be attained at almost any institution of higher learning and nearly never is the student asked to compromise any moral code they have prior to their experience. You (and many other like-minded sponsors of BYU education) really seem to think that everywhere else is Sodom. What are you talking about? "Men are rapists" and "militant homosexuals"--you really have no idea what any experience outside of BYU entails, but you imagine what it must be like in the worst light possible. That, my friend, is the problem.


"I have brainwashed my own spawn to want to go live in Provo for their college years....My kids seem to want to have that mind-numbing, soul-limiting experience that is BYU"

Doesn't look like your kids have all the facts. Basically what you are saying is that your brainwashing worked. Congrats!


"We're better"

"No, we're better"

"No, we are"

People, GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! Everytime I hear this BYU-Utah diatribe is seriously diminishes my faith in adult behavior. You all sound like two year-olds fighting over who's dad could beat-up who. Neatherthals!!

Both schools are great, with great people. Can we please, for the love all that is holy, just stop and admit we are BOTH doing well? Sheesh....

Re: Wow

Nicely said. I agree 100%. I think a good education can be had at BYU, but it is people like "U of Wash Offered a full ..." who led me to choose another experience, despite having an opportunity to attend BYU. Having school pride and school spirit is great, but thinking that every other university is of the devil and will destroy testimonies is not an attitude that any LDS person (or any person of any faith, for that matter) should have. It is ignorant and unrealistic. In my view, "U of Wash"'s attitude nicely displays the limited view of the world that a BYU education apparently provides to some who attend there.

The trademark arrogance is so unbecoming the presumably otherwise good LDS folk who attend and have attended BYU. I know many down-to-earth, great BYU graduates. But far too many display unfettered arrogance and suffer from a superiority complext (a highly-unmerited superiority complext I might add).

Doc Sez . . .

Went to both BYU and U of U, both for undergraduate and graduate degrees. Had great experiences at both schools. When at BYU I lived in Helaman Halls and even then (late 1960's) my dorm mates and I would comment that the entrance structure nearby ought to say "The Campus is Our World" rather than The World is Our Campus. Giving Dick Cheney an honorary doctorate was confirmation of our earlier observations.

Frustrated BYU Student

Sigh... If only there weren't BYU grads that fit the stereotype so well, it would be a lot easier to see the less-vocal majority of BYU students who aren't arrogant and ignorant, don't think BYU is somehow superior to all other institutions, and are just here because it is the best choice for us out of anywhere else we were accepted. I didn't apply to Harvard or Yale or anywhere because I had only a small hope of getting in, and if I did get in it would have been too expensive for me. However, if I could have paid for it, I would have maybe tried.

With all that said, I also want to defend BYU against all those who think it is somehow inferior to most other institutions. You can get a high quality education here, the classes are tough, the teachers are helpful, and we are encouraged to be open minded. It is a high quality University. But to think that somehow it is better for LDS students then anywhere else is just plain ignorant.


I never got to go to college but my kids all did. They grew up without any contact with other LDS kids. My son was the only LDS kid at his high school and everyone knew it. All four of my kids welcomed being at BYU and BYUI and having much of the pressure off. To finally just be one of the crowd and ordinary may seem an odd thing but my kids always felt under the microscope. Sure they have lots of non LDS friends, still do. But they welcomed the chance to have the same Morales as the general population at school, to have church topics be allowed to be discussed openly, not having to keep their religious opinions to themselves for fear of repercussions. We have lived in the deep south, the West, and Midwest, was the hardest for my kids as Mormons. Church alliances and power bases were strong and lines were always drawn. My kids would get introduced by teachers and coaches as Mormon first, their name second. Going to BYU was a chance to breath. Everyone should live away from UT to appreciate it and not stay in UT too long either.

pride vs humility

to most popular, huh?: really, vassar, northwestern, stanford? Wouldn't you rather your daughter enjoy a good education AND have peers with the same beliefs? Not to mention professors who have similar beliefs? I worked at BYU for over 6+ years. That clean, wholesome, enlightened, and healthy environment cannot be duplicated and it is to the benefit of every student and faculty to make it that way and to enjoy it. Not to mention the mentoring opportunities far surpass the value of the "vassars" in real life. Not to mention, it sounds like your daughter would benefit from the humility on the Y campus. just sayin....

Dave from Taylorsville now

TO: ok | 6:43 a.m. March 11, 2010

Dear Mr. College Professor.

You said, "It may also measure something else, the inability of the applicant to see the broad view of education and the future. They apply to only one place. Hmmm. Well... as a college professor I encourage my students to think and act globally."

If they don't get into BYU, THEN they consider somewhere else.

A broad view? Doubt if you get an LDS or conservative prospective from a prof. at Stanford. Hmmm Professor?

"I encourage my students to think and act globally." GLOBALLY??? I GUARANTEE you that you could go NOWHERE else, other than BYU, and find more students with international experience and foreign language skills.

To not apply to other schools shows a lack of a broad view??? Just how many schools can your kids go to at one time??? ONE!!! Where they go to will be the place they find the "view" of the world they will receive from that school. I know, it's kind of like, "No matter where you're at, there you are."

David H

Why is this even an article?

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