Why is this even an article?
TO: ok | 6:43 a.m. March 11, 2010Dear Mr. College Professor.You said, "It may also measure something else, the inability of the
applicant to see the broad view of education and the future. They apply to only
one place. Hmmm. Well... as a college professor I encourage my students to think
and act globally."If they don't get into BYU, THEN they consider
somewhere else.A broad view? Doubt if you get an LDS or
conservative prospective from a prof. at Stanford. Hmmm Professor?"I
encourage my students to think and act globally." GLOBALLY??? I GUARANTEE you
that you could go NOWHERE else, other than BYU, and find more students with
international experience and foreign language skills.To not apply to
other schools shows a lack of a broad view??? Just how many schools can your
kids go to at one time??? ONE!!! Where they go to will be the place they find
the "view" of the world they will receive from that school. I know, it's kind
of like, "No matter where you're at, there you are."
to most popular, huh?: really, vassar, northwestern, stanford? Wouldn't you
rather your daughter enjoy a good education AND have peers with the same
beliefs? Not to mention professors who have similar beliefs? I worked at BYU
for over 6+ years. That clean, wholesome, enlightened, and healthy environment
cannot be duplicated and it is to the benefit of every student and faculty to
make it that way and to enjoy it. Not to mention the mentoring opportunities
far surpass the value of the "vassars" in real life. Not to mention, it sounds
like your daughter would benefit from the humility on the Y campus. just
I never got to go to college but my kids all did. They grew up without any
contact with other LDS kids. My son was the only LDS kid at his high school and
everyone knew it. All four of my kids welcomed being at BYU and BYUI and having
much of the pressure off. To finally just be one of the crowd and ordinary may
seem an odd thing but my kids always felt under the microscope. Sure they have
lots of non LDS friends, still do. But they welcomed the chance to have the same
Morales as the general population at school, to have church topics be allowed to
be discussed openly, not having to keep their religious opinions to themselves
for fear of repercussions. We have lived in the deep south, the West, and
Midwest, was the hardest for my kids as Mormons. Church alliances and power
bases were strong and lines were always drawn. My kids would get introduced by
teachers and coaches as Mormon first, their name second. Going to BYU was a
chance to breath. Everyone should live away from UT to appreciate it and not
stay in UT too long either.
Sigh... If only there weren't BYU grads that fit the stereotype so well, it
would be a lot easier to see the less-vocal majority of BYU students who aren't
arrogant and ignorant, don't think BYU is somehow superior to all other
institutions, and are just here because it is the best choice for us out of
anywhere else we were accepted. I didn't apply to Harvard or Yale or anywhere
because I had only a small hope of getting in, and if I did get in it would have
been too expensive for me. However, if I could have paid for it, I would have
maybe tried. With all that said, I also want to defend BYU against
all those who think it is somehow inferior to most other institutions. You can
get a high quality education here, the classes are tough, the teachers are
helpful, and we are encouraged to be open minded. It is a high quality
University. But to think that somehow it is better for LDS students then
anywhere else is just plain ignorant.
Went to both BYU and U of U, both for undergraduate and graduate degrees. Had
great experiences at both schools. When at BYU I lived in Helaman Halls and even
then (late 1960's) my dorm mates and I would comment that the entrance structure
nearby ought to say "The Campus is Our World" rather than The World is Our
Campus. Giving Dick Cheney an honorary doctorate was confirmation of our earlier
Nicely said. I agree 100%. I think a good education can be had at BYU, but it
is people like "U of Wash Offered a full ..." who led me to choose another
experience, despite having an opportunity to attend BYU. Having school pride
and school spirit is great, but thinking that every other university is of the
devil and will destroy testimonies is not an attitude that any LDS person (or
any person of any faith, for that matter) should have. It is ignorant and
unrealistic. In my view, "U of Wash"'s attitude nicely displays the limited
view of the world that a BYU education apparently provides to some who attend
there. The trademark arrogance is so unbecoming the presumably
otherwise good LDS folk who attend and have attended BYU. I know many
down-to-earth, great BYU graduates. But far too many display unfettered
arrogance and suffer from a superiority complext (a highly-unmerited superiority
complext I might add).
"We're better""No, we're better""No, we are"People, GET OVER YOURSELVES!!! Everytime I hear this BYU-Utah diatribe is
seriously diminishes my faith in adult behavior. You all sound like two
year-olds fighting over who's dad could beat-up who. Neatherthals!!Both schools are great, with great people. Can we please, for the love all
that is holy, just stop and admit we are BOTH doing well? Sheesh....
"I have brainwashed my own spawn to want to go live in Provo for their college
years....My kids seem to want to have that mind-numbing, soul-limiting
experience that is BYU"Doesn't look like your kids have all the
facts. Basically what you are saying is that your brainwashing worked.
Thanks for the background on your own education and your parenting philosophy,
although unsolicited, it was a nice detour . I think you have provided the best
example of what many on here think is the problem with your attitude and frankly
this article. The suggestion is that somehow BYU has exclusive rights to the
correct type of education. What we should all understand, and I think what you
fail to, is that edification can be attained at almost any institution of higher
learning and nearly never is the student asked to compromise any moral code they
have prior to their experience. You (and many other like-minded sponsors of BYU
education) really seem to think that everywhere else is Sodom. What are you
talking about? "Men are rapists" and "militant homosexuals"--you really have no
idea what any experience outside of BYU entails, but you imagine what it must be
like in the worst light possible. That, my friend, is the problem.
I am amazed at the ignorance of your comment: "I welcome you to farm your own
kids off to the local university, where they too can enjoy the feminist lectures
on how all men are rapists and the mind-expanding presence of militant
homosexuals condemning all who don't overtly support their noble struggle."People joke about the "bubble" that is BYU, and I try to not believe
that, but wow. I applied to both Utah and BYU, got into both, and attended
Utah. I never heard any of the lectures to which you refer and never came
across any militant homosexual. In fact, I had a great experience as an LDS
student. I too met my wife at school, and we love serving in our ward. If my kids want to go to BYU, so be it, but I pray they will not come
out with the narrow-minded view of the world that you have. Even if students
really did routinely run into "militant homosexuals" and heard "feminist
lectures," they will hear plenty of it in the world, so why not learn how to
hear it and keep a testimony at a young age?
I had a scholarship to attend BYU in the 70's, chose Utah instead and don't
regret it for a minute.I have sent two daughters to BYU and don't
regret that either.
U of Washington offered me a full ride scholarship and virtually assured me a
path to med school. I chose BYU instead. It was the second-best choice I ever
made in my life, second only to marrying my wife (a BYU student).Those of you who went elsewhere and loved it: Good for you. I'm glad you
enjoyed your experience. I'm glad you didn't go to BYU. Please feel free to
steer your children clear of those narrow-minded Zoobies at BYU.I
have brainwashed my own spawn to want to go live in Provo for their college
years. Given how competitive BYU admission has become the last decade or so, I
welcome you to farm your own kids off to the local university, where they too
can enjoy the feminist lectures on how all men are rapists and the
mind-expanding presence of militant homosexuals condemning all who don't overtly
support their noble struggle. My kids seem to want to have that mind-numbing,
soul-limiting experience that is BYU. I couldn't be happier.
BYU probably has the cheapest tuition and best value and this is even more
important for students while in a recession...Expect tuition
prices to go up at BYU now.... And the cost may go up quickly to eventually
match the cost at the other universities that they are being compared with.
This message responds to Re: Proud to be part of the 22% at 1:58 p.m. (and to
the original post to which you responded)I had the same experience.
I have been LDS all of my life (grew up in Utah), love the LDS church, applied
to both BYU and the U of U (and some other schools), got in to both schools, and
chose to attend Utah. I loved my experience at the U. I was not at
all surprised at the many, many opportunities I had to interact with other LDS
students. I enjoyed interacting with students who lived "Honor Code" standards
even though their university did not force it on them. It was easy to tell who
really loved the gospel and embraced church standards and who did not. I loved
(most of) my professors. I rarely encountered what I would consider "anti" LDS
professors. I also enjoyed learning from people with different beliefs than I
have (many of my professors were LDS, many were not). I believe that greatly
enhanced my education. I am amazed at the one-track mind of so many
BYU types who think no other experience can compare.
I remember the Letter from BYU awarding me my scholarship for my Freshman year
in 1982- full tuition for a semester was $605. Can you believe it? BYU
provided me a good education. It's easy to see why it's students want to go
their - the church's underwriting of the cost makes it a good value.
america's best colleges refers to undergrad. they rank graduate programs too.
they even rank world universities that take into account both undergrad and grad
prestige. facts are funny things is right. also, utah does rank higher than
BYU on their top 400 in the world, BYU isn't listed... no bid deal though
OK, let me see if I can walk you through this process.We are
discussing USNEWS "America's Best Colleges" ranking (this is where we are
getting the 71 and 126 numbers). Surely, you saw that USNEWS also ranks
"America's Best Graduate Schools," right? Did this make you think that there
was a distinction in the rankings? OK, within the category of
"America's Best Colleges," they rank the undergraduate ranking of LIKE
universities. One of those categories is National Universities and another is
Liberal Arts Colleges. If you check the methodology section of the rankings, it
is clear they are ranking undergraduate programs of National Universities (they
state it explicitly and implicitly by tracking ACT/SAT, not GRE/MCAT etc..).
That is so you know the environment of your undergraduate experience, NatU will
have tons of students and grad students, LibA will only have a couple thousands
students and few grad students.If given the time we could go into
how the word "college" connotes undergraduate education, with "university" as a
larger catch-all. You obviously aren't getting the ranking thing anyway, so
don't worry your little head about it.
B Y Who ?
Ditto. I was accepted to BYU, went to Utah instead. One of the best decisions of
my life.There are plenty of schools besides BYU where you can meet
other LDS people, have a great social experience, grow your testimony, and get a
Knowing what I know now for my profession I would have gone elsewhere, to a more
prestigious school because the name of the school you go to matters. It matters
a whole lot. However, you can't beat the cost and the atmosphere as
an LDS person.
It is funny to me to watch a person get their degree from BYU, then years later
they wake up and leave the mormon church. To talk with them after a
job interview and they tell how uncomfortable it was to explain BYU to HR
How come this article doesn't mention BYU's dominance over Utah in basketball
and Football the past 4 years? That's all we really want to read about anyway.
"Schools in the National Universities category, such as Yale and UCLA, offer a
full range of undergraduate majors, master's, and doctoral degrees. These
colleges also are committed to producing groundbreaking research."This is a quote describing the "National Universities" category in US News &
World Report, which ranks BYU at 71 and Utah at 126. Apparently they take
undergraduate, master's and doctoral degrees, as well as research into account.
It is not just undergraduate rankings. Yes, facts are indeed funny things.
My daughter got ACT 32 and SAT 2280 this year. She applied to BYU, ONLY BYU.
Yesterday, she got the notice for her heritage scholarship. She even got some
other school's schoolarship offerings even she did NOT apply to their schools,
because she is a finalist for "National Merit Scholarship" and is one of the 20
Utah girl candidates for "The United States Presidential Scholars". Those offers
like free 4-years full tuition plus $500 per month for living plus $2000 oversea
study plus $2000 for laptop, but she don't care. She WILL go to BYU this fall. I
am a happy father!
This is where I couldn't disagree more with le prof:I am ready to
admit that there are other considerations for university attendance than
academics. Those considerations may have more to do with the students overall
experience, they include: cost, ease, social environment, etc... This I
grant.But to say that the numerical rankings have no relevance is a
coating you put on the pill you don't want to swallow. There is good and
better, there is better and best. Why do people want to conflate the academic
prestige of their school with something arbitrary like, "I liked it."
Preferences do not academic excellence make.
I attended Harvard & BYU. I enjoyed both, but for religious reasons-I finished
at BYU. The real issue is who can afford college? Many low-icnome
families simply cannot afford the high cost of attending college. As
a country we are losing alot of worthy students.
Every school is just what you make it. BYU has very fine programs in several
areas and their degrees are first class. It enjoys a good reputation and has
been rated as the best "bargain" in America because of its low tuition and its
quality education. The average GPA of entering students is very
high and it's difficult to get in because of the large numbers of applicants and
the cut-off cap that limits the size of the university. Each person
chooses the atmosphere he feels he will succeed in. There is no right or wrong,
nor good or bad, just different. The numerical rankings are arbitrary and vary
according to the pollers' (sometimes) biased opinions. I loved my
classes and teachers at BYU and found them better than those at another local
school where I worked on my graduate degrees. But I would never downgrade that
Did anybody else listen to the rationale of these kids who chose BYU over
Princeton? Nothing about the school ranking, "how good on an institution is,"
they wanted to be around other Mormons. And they seem to have a few mistaken
notions 1) Provo is the only place with a substantial Mormon student population
and 2) you must have a substantial Mormon student population to have fun or
survive.There can be no academic justification for choosing BYU over
Princeton, Stanford, or Harvard. People have come on these boards and admitted
way too much. If you were in at Stanford and went to BYU, you made that choice
for non academic reasons (that is for sure!)Let's not get it
twisted, BYU is #71 as an undergraduate institution. That is what they focus on
as people have stated, and there are 70 schools that do it better. It is a top
feeder school, because most schools with 30,000 students do research and have
advanced grad programs. The U is ranked above BYU every time when overall
academic prestige is taken into account (read research and grad programs).
I am LDS and have lived in Utah my whole life, and I go to the U. I didn't even
apply to BYU. It's sad that they feel like BYU is the only place to be if you
are LDS. True, the LDS faith seems to be a minority at the U, but it has been a
fantastic growing experience to interact and live with people of so many
different faiths. However, the LDS church is also very strong here. In the dorms
the people who are LDS are all very close with one another and we have so much
fun. We have LDS sororities and fraternities and various activities throughout
the week to be involved with our own religion, which is fun. It's great that the
people who go to BYU want to go there, but you should choose a school for the
education you receive also, not jsut because its a "Mormon school". No matter
where you are you can put yourself into a situation that you feel comfortable...
why not be exposed to diversity as well?
First of all, I am not doubting you had an awesome experience at USU. Maybe even
as awesome as the experience I am having at BYU. But how do you know you
wouldn't have a great experience at BYU too? Trust me. There is plenty of
"diversity of thought" at BYU if that is what you want. But if you want to cling
to stereotypes, go ahead.
25th/75th percentile for ACT scoresHarvard 31/35Princeton
30/34Columbia 28/33Cornell 28/32BYU 25/30UofU
21/27Utah State 20/27Boise State 19/24Idaho 20/26Colorado 24/28Iowa State 22/27Kansas 21/26Nebraska
22/28Texas 24/30University of Arizona 21/26Berkeley
25/31UCLA 24/31Stanford 30/34Washington 23/29Notre
Dame 31/34Georgetown 28/32Connecticut 24/28Alabama
21/27Florida 25/30Kentucky 21/27Vanderbilt 30/33
Well, I had a good time at the Y, but two of my friends that came with me ended
up pregnant by their sophomore year. Going to BYU does not grantee Celestial
glory just as going somewhere else does not prevent it. I think too
many people (LDS and non) rely to heavily on others opinions and actions to
justify themselves. I think it is best to decide for yourself who you are and
what you want, then the surroundings do not matter nearly as much.
I am LDS, grew up outside Utah, and applied to two schools: USU and BYU. BYU
accepted me and offered a scholarship, but I turned it down and enrolled at USU.
BEST DECISION OF MY LIFE. I loved my time in Logan and wouldn't trade my
experience there for anything in the world.The USU LDS Institute
provided a fantastic spiritual learning environment, but I was also able to
cross the street and experience some true diversity of thought. I had a great
mix of friends at USU who shared my faith, and many others who didn't, and that
turned out to be the perfect balance for me.
Of course this survey needs to be read carefully. I would imagine that Brown
University, Cornell, University of Penn and other Ivy Leagues Schools accept a
number of students who then go to Harvard, Princeton, and Yale.Or
course BYU is not in the same league as the top schools. Having said that, they
do attract some pretty good students - many of whom could have attended the top
schools - and they belong among the nation's top hundred schools.Average high school GPA of incoming freshmen - 3.8Average ACT scores of
incoming freshmen - 28.2Compare to other MWC schools: (25th and 75th
percentiles for ACT)Air Force Academy - 28/31BYU - 25/30TCU - 23/28Colorado State - 22/26Utah - 21/27Wyoming -
21/26San Diego State - 20/25New Mexico - 19/25UNLV - 19/24U of U - 21/27
Your question is right on. I think that the supposition is that with tens of
thousands of singles of the same faith in the same area, the chances of finding
a "compatible" match are increased. But even at BYU, one's number of contacts
are restricted to ward and class acquaintances, that might be in the hundreds.
I'd guess that most major universities have large enough Mormon populations that
one could find a Mormon mate.
I have 3 kids at the U and they all have an extremely strong LDS support group
on campus. All 3 chose the U over BYU because the U has a stronger science
department and love the experiences they are having. FYI - Most of the LDS
prophets graduated from. . . the U!!!!!
What's all the fuss about? People who apply to BYU actually want to go there.The whole ranking business is silly. It's designed to sell
magazines.The proof of higher education is in the graduates. BYU's
graduates are admitted to the best graduate and professional schools in the
world, win the best fellowships, and make great contributions in the communities
and on the job.
Although this is cool, I think a real indicator of how "popular" a school is
would be how many people apply. That would make sense to me. Or maybe a
combination of the two.
All schools with notbale sports and great academics(including Michigan, Cal, and
Stanford) give exceptions to athletes. BTW your argument (which I
don't fully understand, but seems to question the ethics of athletes given
easier rides) is weak. Do you realize that because of BYU's athletics program
and the huge pile of $$$ that it brings in, literally hundreds of academically
excellent students are given FULL tuition scholarships yearly. Many academically
excellent, median-raising students attend BYU partially because of BYU football
and basketball.Also, athletes are not the only ones given easier
paths. Did you know that children of BYU faculty members, minorities,
handicapped students, recent converts, international students, and others with
unique talents or situations are placed in the same secondary applicant pool
which allows them MUCH easier acceptance to BYU. Children of faculty can get in
with a 3.0 GPA and a 22-24 ACT! This is a perk which is passed a long as a
"thank you" to BYU professors.Source: My BYU business ethics course
which our professor revealed these policies in detail in order to evaluate if
they are ethical
I applied to BYU as a backup, got in, and elected to go elsewhere. I had a
wonderful experience as an active LDS, met my wife in college, and would not
trade my experience for anything. My exposure to people and views different
from my own was one of the best parts of my education. I participated in the
Institute, which gave me great interaction with other LDS as well. I am shocked (well, not really) at the arrogance of many commenters that LDS
people who go to other universities, including the U of U, only go there because
they could not get in to BYU. Get out of the bubble. There are places to go
and great things to be done by LDS people outside of Provo. I would
say, if someone is struggling with a testimony or is from outside of Utah and
has never been around a lot of LDS kids, then maybe BYU is a good option. But
think of all the good LDS kids could be doing for the Church on other campuses
that ends up getting wasted because so many parents virtually insist that their
child attend BYU.
This ranking has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of education at BYU!
But clearly that "quality" is expressed here by these comments from people who
apparently cant even read the article correctly. BYU has a high enrollment
percentage because of its relative ease to get in to as well as the lack of
other LDS schools to lure them somewhere else, and dont compare it to the U
because both schools are a joke compared to other Universities around the
country. BYU is the only school little mormon children have to dream about
attending some day.. Think about if Notre Dame was the only catholic school, Im
sure their enrollment percentage would be a lot higher but schools like BC,
Gonzaga, Saint Marys, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Marquette, USD, Villanova ect take
away from Notre Dames enrollment rates. I guess you could make the arguement
that BYU has to compete against BYU-Idaho, and BYU-Hawaii....
Hardly noticed... except apparently to dental schools, law schools, medical
schools, accounting firms, other businesses, etc.
my outstanding LDS son could get admitted to either BYU or BYU-I... I had a
great life experience at BYU... he's hardworking, humble, dedicated and in line
with all principles of the university - academics don't come easily... he'll get
back from a mission in 5 months and hard-work his way through it, he'll make
good (LDS and other) friends at a state school - meet some nice LDS girl, get
married and have kids at some point. His perfect SAT sister was accepted to 9
of the top universities in the US, national merit finalist scholarships out the
yazoo... and well, life hasn't been so good where she ended up. Good luck to
all the college bound regardless where they end up, just hope they're doing all
the right things in life, because life matters - school choice, not so much I
I did one year at Utah, three years at BYU and four graduate years at the
University of Washington. BYU students were the brightest and most motivated,
and the training was indeed superior at BYU. BYU students were also the most
uptight and dorky. So, go with what feels good to you.
To clarify my comments, I'm referring to the quality of BYU's Undergaduate
applicants to law school, not to the quality of BYU Law itself (which is ranked
at the bottom of tier 1, but should be more around 25.)Adcomms at
top law, medical, dental, and MBA programs love pulling from the BYU
Undergraduate pool. This is because they 1) Are very intellegent and many times
deferred going to better undergraduate schools in order to go to BYU, 2) Have
strong international experience, 3) Increase the conservative diversity at their
school (which schools like NYU, Columbia, and Berkeley surprisingly have a
problem doing) without increasing the number of crazies which tend to come from
other uber-conservative institutions, and 4) Because LDS Academia at top
institutions is HUGE. I was speaking with some Harvard Law Professors who said
that they see tons of LDS faculty, but have never met an evangelical in
RE: still Have any Cougars claimed here that BYU is an "ivy league
school". It always amazes me how people who hate a group of people like making
stuff up about it.
"BYU will always be synonymous with polygmy"Really? Living out East
that NEVER came up when discussing my BYU degree. Then again, you've probably
been a non-Mormon in Utah all your life and don't get out much.
I loved my experience at BYU. My son's attending a local community college and
having a great experience.I guess if I had been accepted to either Harvard
or BYU I would have been flattered to be accepted by the #1 school in the
nation, but would have attended BYU for economic reasons alone. My perception is
that BYU undergraduate students get a rigorous education and do very well in
graduate shool admissions and the cost of tuition is substantially lower than
Please explain how a nice mormon girl at BYU differs from a nice mormon girl
Way to catch an obvious inadvertent typo. I am sure you have never made one in
You are mostly correct. BYU is, by design, mainly an undergraduate
institution.However there are some exceptions, most notably BYU's
Masters of Accounting (MAcc) program, which is consistently ranked in the top 10
in almost any rankings system I have seen. In many it is continually battling
UT-Austin for the #1 spot. I know this because I am applying for BYU's MAcc
program this year, and am currently in the school's Accounting Junior core. During the process the faculty tells us that, because getting into the
junior core is already so competitive, they would love to admit everyone from it
into the MAcc program. However, because BYU intends to remain mainly an
Undergraduate institution, they limit the amount that each Graduate program can
admit. Therefore only 60%-70% of applicants from the Junior core are admited. I
hope I am able to get into BYU's MAcc program, but if not, I am well prepared to
go to any other school to finish my master's degree. BYU is, after all, an
excellent feeder for professional programs.
"I'd come here," he said. "Extracurricular (activities) are good here. I haven't
seen Harvard on ESPN."And I haven't seen BYU on ESPN either, stupid
MWC tv package. ;-)
In support of an earlier statement that BYU is a feeder school (from BYU.edu's
fact page):#1 - Producer of dental school-bound students (AADSAS)#6 - Producer of law school-bound students (LSAC)#10 -
Number of graduates who go on to earn PhDs from 1997-2006 (NORC/NSF)Top 10 - Producer of medical school-bound students (AAMC)Sure, BYU
has a huge undergrad population that rivals large state schools (30,000+), but
these stats are still noteworthy.
Cougars LOVE to think that everyone that is not one of them should be pumping
their gas. Get over it, Cougs, you are not ivy-league. You are barely noticed
outside of Utah and Mormondom.
just because BYU is "more popular" than Hale, still does not make BYU an "ivy
league school" (contrary to Cougar belief).
BYU has high academic standardS!? Just ask the athletic department for all the
athletes they have signed for sports with LOW grades and LOW ACT/SAT scores.
Double standard. If you are an athlete you get a break. If you don't believe
just investigate it. Most the other schools in this article DON'T bend. You
don't have to reply just investigate it. You will see.
My three oldest nephews all graduated from high school with ACTs in the 30s and
a couple 4.0s, one 3.9something. My dad's neighbor scored a 36 on ACT and
graduated with a 4.0 - Sterling scholar candidate in computer science. They
have all decided to attend BYU. I wondered why they would all choose BYU when
their chances for acceptance to top programs were so good. They all said that
they would wait until grad school (professional school) to apply to those top
schools, for now, they wanted the BYU experience. I'd suggest that the desire
to marry a "nice Mormon girl" played a roll in their choices. At the same time,
perhaps it wasn't much of a decision. Their parents all attended BYU and they
grew up with that being their expectation - missions, graduate from BYU, then
comes the decisions about where to go.
No, I would not say BYU is the Harvard of the west. I would say that Harvard is
the BYU of the east, however. :)
One word: Bitter
BYU will always be synonymous with polygmy.
I will always be thankful for the opportunity I had to attend and graduate from
to The Full Truth,As a graduate of the J. Rueben Clark law school, I
can tell you that you are wrong.
Two words: academic censorship
I went to eight different universities BYU was by far the most socialEven though I am not LDS I stil root for the Cougs
There's no D in Stanford. Unless you are on the episode of Saved By the Bell
where they go to a college that sounds like Stanford.
In the end, where you got the degree is not as important as the fact that you
got it. It helps when you got it from a good, respected institution. Guess what,
BYU is well respected in most areas. After you get some work experience, that
matters more than your degree and where you got it from in most areas anyway.Also, I can think of at least one area where a degree from BYU is better
then Standford (or almost anywhere else for that matter): Accounting, which is
what I am currently majoring in at BYU.
I would bet the majority of the resentment here comes from people not being able
to go to BYU, (I know, you're going to say you could have gone anywhere, but we
all know that's not true).However, those of you who are already
parading around with this new ranking probably don't understand how these
rankings work, and how pointless they really are. If you did, you would be smart
enough to know the rankings are about as legit as the BCS.Let's just
take it for what it is, and be grateful for a little recognition, and leave it
BYU's national image is as an amazing professional-school-feeder, with
first-tier professional-school graduate programs and extremely good (top-10)
undergraduate professional programs. Humanities/ Education Undergraduate
programs are top-100. Graduate Research is not so much respected (top-250). BYU
policy prohibits significant $$$ going toward research-school graduate
recruiting and has even stated that the First Presidency's vision is not for BYU
to be an outstanding graduate-PhD school, but an undergrad and professional
school. I just finished the application cycle for law school (and
will be attending my pick of the top five law schools--Harvard, Yale, Stanford,
Columbia, Chicago). During the process the admissions deans made it clear that
to them, BYU is at a level comparable to Berkeley, Texas-Austin, all non
Princeton-Yale-Harvard Ivy league schools, UCLA, USC, Brown, Duke, Michigan, and
pretty much every other top school except for Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and
Stanford. This is because BYU's student quality is extremely high, albeit
sometimes weird. BYU is an awesome school!UofU seems to
be the opposite of BYU-- average undergraduate programs, weak professional
graduate programs, and very highly regarded and really outstanding
I went to Utah in the 60's. I thought then that many went to BYU because of its
close proximity to Utah. Those BYU girls always came up on the weekends anyway.
Given a choice of attending Harvard, Standford or BYU, which one would you
choose? I'm not sure who would be my #1 or #2 pick, but I do know who which
school would be #3.
I applied, was accepted, and even offered a scholarship to BYU. I went to USU
and had the time of my life wearing TRUE BLUE!
I'm a life-long BYU fan, but these statistics need to be qualified. BYU is
bound to be many people's #1 choice because of the religious angle. But when
comparing to Ivy League schools, you need to remember that people that apply to
one Ivy League (and have a chance of getting in) apply to several Ivy League
schools. Since they are the best students several schools accept them, and they
can only choose one. What this study actually shows is that BYU is not
aggressive in recruiting the best students in the country unless they happen to
be Mormon. This is why they are #71, and Harvard is #1.
BYU Grads are funny!
Dear Student in Arizona:Please note that a full tuition scholarship is
very different from a full ride. In fact, it is very rare for anyone to receive
a full ride scholarship for anything other than athletics. The vast majority of
schools do not offer full ride scholarships for academics. I am happy for you
decision to come to BYU, but chances are you were not offered a full ride
scholarship to anywhere.
I think that the real issue when you compare the top 10 and 17 is acceptance
rate. When BYU gets to the point that it is approaching the single digit
acceptance rate and it still has a 70+% Yield then we can make the comparison
that it is in the same "category" and is the same league. As for the 80+%
acceptance school, would image that nearly 100% of the pass-overs are in the
medical school. So apples to apples they are the "most accepting" organization
on the list. They should feel good about getting a yield as high as they have
considering they accept every undergrad that applies.
I wasn't going to bring Utah up, but since BYU haters and mormon haters feel the
need to respond let's clarify that the reason Utah is #17 is because many of
them prefered BYU but wasn't accepted.
3...2...1...BYU is not just the Harvard of the west"... but, they're actually
better than Harvard. You can take that to the bank.
#6 is Yeshiva? So what does this poll in a business magazine, USNWR, measure?
Loyalty to where you applied. I am not surprised that the Y came in first. It
should have. It may also measure something else, the inability of
the applicant to see the broad view of education and the future. They apply to
only one place. Hmmm. Well... as a college professor I encourage my students
to think and act globally. My children I advised to choose an array of
possibilities, and they did, and they have done well. Do not put all of your
eggs into one basket. Not a good idea in this world that is constantly
moving.This is news? Yeshia in 6th?PS -- you gotta hand
it to USNWR, they get some excellent publicity for reporting data.
coooooool.Take a hundred out of petty cash, mr. marketer, and go shopping
Congratulations! I didn't get into BYU at the time, due to Lost ACt exam. I
instead went on mission, and went to another college. I think, despite how they
have an honor code, that not all schools have, and can be hard to follow, it
kind of shows that people, who have principles, are willing to go to a school,
that will have an environment that encourages it. A degree is not any different
from one school to the next. Math is still math, english is still english, etc.
The diference may be the price it takes to get that degree. As far as being
Mormon at other schools and being eaten up? What???? Mormons prosper
everywhere. They might be in schools where they have to decide whether or not
to participate at an event that might not occur at BYU, but in life, you have to
make choices. And those that hold on to their values, they do well. Those who
don't, have problems. And you know what? It's the same at BYU.
Grew up In Utah county. Went on a mission and found many, many fellow
missionaries who said they wanted to go to BYU. I couldn't understand it until
one young man explained he was the only member in his high school and was tired
of having to think about the church membership thing every time he looked at a
girl. He said he just wanted to go to a place he could go to school, make
friends with girls and not have to think about membership compatibility. If he
saw a girl he thought was cute, he could focus on talking smoooooooth... rather
than thinking about eternal progression.That BYU is a very good
economic bargain and is ranked well in many academics is a boon. I think BYU was
ranked in the top 10% for law students having jobs before graduation. Its
accounting school is #1 or 2 every year. Great athletics and a great locale for
outdoor sports. My daughter did not choose it and I graduated from the U, but I
still can easily see why so many would want to go. Good job.
I've attended four different colleges: UVSC (now UVU), BYU, the University of
Washington, and the University of Alaska Fairbanks. Each one has its strengths
and weaknesses. I'm convinced a practicing Mormon can have a fulfilling college
life just about anywhere, but at the same time, there's something special about
BYU. I reaped a lot of benefits from BYU's emphasis on undergraduate research
and faculty mentoring. It also doesn't hurt that BYU is a private school; the
resources available to students are phenomenal, especially considering the cost
of tuition. BYU can offer a wide variety of classes because of its large
student body. This was important to me; I ended up taking several classes that
almost certainly wouldn't have been offered at a smaller institution due to
insufficient interest and resources.BYU isn't a perfect school by
any stretch of the imagination, but for committed students with strong Mormon
convictions, it's a fantastic place to get an education.
Someone is complaining that people want to be with people such as themselves?
BYU has an honor code, for those of you who don't understand that, it means you
actually have to agree to certain standards and then live by them, you know
honor a contract. I feel sorry for the kids that graduate from a school that's
living off past glories and a liberal puff education. BYU is building it's name
and reputation, Harvard is living off it's name from fifty years ago. Who do you
think got us in this financial mess? Your basic, non graded Harvard MBA Grad.
Thanks but I got out before it got bad:). I must be a dumb Mormon, proud of BYU.
After one lame year at another college, went to BYU and had a rough time
catching up. Then went on to earn graduate degrees in law and journalism. BYU
was tough and prepared me well for graduate studies and for real life. Frankly,
grad school was a breeze compared to most of my classes at BYU!
had a four year full-ride scholarship offer to any State school in the State of
Washington. I turned it down, attended BYU for my undergrad and went to the
University of Washington for medical school.I felt very well
prepared for med school with my BYU education. BYU has very good representation
at UW medical school. The medical school and dental school instructors have
commented that BYU students come to graduate school more prepared than those
that come from other undergraduate programs.I had a great time,
received an excellent education, and have no regrets about attending BYU. But,
I think a person can get a great education wherever they go to school... after
all, it's up to the individual to put forth the necessary effort to learn what
is needed to be successful.
A BYU degree is not the same as a Stanford degree. These rankings mean nothing.
Congrats BYU you officially beat Harvard in a category that does not even
matter. BYU has high academic standards but let's be real, Harvard is Harvard.
It may not be the right place for everyone but if BYU has to publicize that they
beat Harvard in one random statistical category which basically affirms that
Mormon kids want to go to a Mormon school I tip my hat to BYU. In fact, this is
the greatest national news that has ever come out of BYU. Yo Max Hall how's
your draft status taste?
I was accepted to Stanford and BYU. It was an easy decision in the end -
$75,000 in debt versus no debt for the same bachelors degree. BYU's
low tuition is a major differentiator.
Mormons who apply to a mormon school want to go to that school if they get
accepted. This is such an achievement for BYU!!
Went to BYU and loved it. Transferred there from a small, eastern state school
where I also loved it. THere are lots of schools where you can be happy and
LDS, but it was easier at BYU. However, loved both, it was the right place at
the right time for each one. By the way, BYU was academically the tougher
school, by far. Great education, much less expensive. Don't knock it, and BYU
grads will NOT be eaten up. If they made it through, they are worth their salt,
as are those who make it through other prestigeous programs.
I graduated from BYU and had a great time. Four years ago my daughter was
accepted to both BYU and Utah State. She choose the Aggies because they offered
her a scholarship and BYU didn't. She had a wonderful time at USU. BYU is
great, but it isn't the only place an LDS student can have a great experience.
In many ways, USU is better.
Really? Name 10, with sources cited please. Or are you just some idiotic person
who can't stand to see BYU #1 in a category above the likes of Harvard, MIT,
etc? My guess is the latter. BYU is such an awesome place to go to school, but
we don't expect anyone outside of it to ever understand. I graduate in 2006,
and I know more about the world than many people who have never lived in Utah.
Utah is ahead of BYU according to who? You? Just another UTE homer that can't
accept the fact that a nationally acclaimed magazine states fact based on data
that they've gathered vs. your highly acclaimed Mr. Anonymous? Who the heck are
you anyway? Oh, I know, another BYU hater that can't accept the fact
that the UofU is 2nd fiddle in just about every category, except for having a
Med School, that is just about all there is...Oh, I forgot about Women's
Gymnastics...face the facts buddy the UofU just doesn't measure up...as stated
by US News and World report, and just about anyone else that thinks and uses
Of course you can have a good education anywhere as a Mormon. It is awesome for
many, such as myself to go to BYU, but for many others it is better to go
elsewhere. It actually really bugs me when people think that good Mormon kids
"have" to go to BYU and I am one of those "good Mormon kids" who did go to BYU.
re: Now watch all the BYU fans... | 8:23 p.m. March 10, 2010 Didn't
Dubya go to Harvard?
I could have gone to Columbia or to USU or to the UofU with a presidential
scholarship, but I chose BYU with only a one year scholarship.BYU
was the only place I wanted to be and I made the right decision for me. Might
not have chose the right major but that is a seperate issue.It's a
great place to be and I am glad I came. I'm also glad I graduate in less than 2
To Anonymus at 9:31. State your sources! It is easy to make a claim like that
with no back up. Where is your proof. I say you can't prove it!
I'm in shock with this report! Good job BYU! Way to spank the country
(including the Utes up north).
Way to earn the #1 spot! I grew up in the Provo/Orem area, attended preschool at
BYU, summer programs at BYU, school field trips to BYU, and even church at BYU
because of my dad's church calling...and then decided on Utah State to get away
from the BYU thing. LOVED it!!! By then I knew how to find my own friends with
worthy standards (of many different faiths) and didn't need the total-Mormon
atmosphere. But I think BYU is great for kids who didn't grow up surrounded by
other LDS peers and am happy they earned this #1 designation.
I have numerous relatives who are Cougars and they have had a great time at BYU.
It is a good school with a unique student body.However, it is not
the only place you can attend for a wonderful experience as a Mormon - not by a
long shot. I attended a small Midwestern Lutheran liberal arts college and had
a ball, as a Mormon. They were curious about me and I was curious about them.
I sang in a campus choir and had the duty to sing in our beautiful Lutheran
chapel every third Sunday - delightful! Some of the fun of my
experience was because the school was 1/10th the size of BYU - in a small pond,
you don't have to be great to participate in extracurricular activities, and my
freshman year would have been such a bore without the athletics, the concerts
and the other things I could BE IN and not just attend.Like many
other places, BYU is a good school but not for everyone. If you are a Mormon
who is happy and determined to live the life, there are hundreds of great places
to go to college. Um-ya-ya! Go, Oles!
Utah is ahead of byu in nearly every category in terms of good education.
To "WOW": Why burn the energy required to actually type the words "WHO CARES!"
if you don't actually care?! Seems logically inconsistent.Since
there are BYU fans who are enjoying this little factoid, why does it get you so
riled that they want to comment about it?Pop a chill pill, relax,
and stop reading the comments if all the people who DO care cause you such
They should also have asked students what their first choice of schools was.
BYU would have ranked first in both Provo and up on the hill at the U too.
That was a very uneducated comment, and I'm guessing you've never been to
college. I'm LDS, and attended college where there were hardly any
other LDS members... but made tons of friends and had fun. Somehow I
wasn't eaten up???
Come out of the woodwork and start saying that BYU is not just the "harvard of
the west"... but, they're actually better than harvard3....2.....1....
I was born and raised in California. I went to BYU, graduated and then moved
back to California. Before I went to BYU, I went to Junior College for a year in
Oakland and worked as a DJ at frat parties at UC Berkeley. I saw plenty of the
real college world, dated lots of girls from the real college world, had all of
the real college world I wanted. It got old, it became pointless. I am not into
drinking alcohol, and the other extracurricular. There are plenty of us that
just chose a more fulfilling college experience that the real world could never
LDS kids want to be with their peers? And this is news? Because a magazine
ranked them? Wow, that IS news!
Cool. Way to go! Great for the popular kids. That's awesome, really. In news
that matters to me, my daughter will go to either Vassar, Stanford, Brown,
Loyola or Emory. Or maybe Northwestern. She's still undecided.
Most popular? is mostly right. Perhaps if I grew up in a high density LDS
community, I could've had the "Mormon" experience in HS that most popular?
implies. But I grew up in the East and I was tired of the lack of breadth and
creativity in the parties and wanted to go to a place where simplicity and
innocence were fun and not made fun of. I finished first in my class of 728 in
HS and could've gone most anyway but in the end I only applied to BYU also. And
it was every bit the experience that I could've hoped for but, as Anonymous
points out, it too was what I made of it. [Eventually I did go to grad school in
Boston; somehow even with my pitiful Florida education and my near inability to
copy with real college, I spanked everyone there too!...humbly, of course.]
You won an accolade. So?
No surprise here. Mormon kids want to go to a Mormon school...
Shouldn't be a suprise. Mormon kids want to go to college with other mormons,
the real college world would eat them up.
This article makes me happy! Of course, there is a strategy with how BYU does
this (early applications), but nonetheless it is good to know that people commit
to BYU. It is a good school, #71 in the nation. To think that #71 is picked
over #1! Of course, that is actually quite common (some people pick #126 over
#71, for example). Way to go BYU!
"BYU is the only place you can go and have fun being a Mormon." That's a load
of crap. I graduated from BYU but I could have gone to many different
universities (even Utah) and had "fun being a Mormon." Don't get me wrong...BYU
was a great experience, but life is what you make it, and you can have a great
time anywhere in the country or world...and be Mormon.