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Comments about ‘Don't marginalize religion, Elder Oaks says to Harvard law students’

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Published: Saturday, Feb. 27 2010 12:00 a.m. MST

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Scott

I'll take all of the comments on here about conservatives and religious people being morons as a compliment. That makes me rare!

I'm living proof that you CAN have 3 college degrees (from liberal colleges no less!) and belong to Mensa and still believe in God!

Harvard Law Student

By lamenting the fact that Mormonism is so misunderstood, Elder Oaks betrays his (and Mormonisms) extremely solipsistic world view. The vast majority of religious people I encounter are absolutely convinced of the rightness of their own beliefs and the wrongness of everyone else's. Mormons are no exception.
The fact of the matter is that most people are simply incurious about the beliefs of others. How many of you Mormons out there, including you Mr. Oaks, have studied at length the tenets of other world religions? I'd be willing to bet that if someone had asked in the Q&A that Mr. Oaks describe at length the distinguishing features between Nichiren Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism he would have been unable to do so. I hate to be the one to have to break it to you Mormons, but on the world stage, you are a very small drop in a very large bucket of religious belief.

Yale Graduate

"solipsistic" = Five bonus points.

Skippy

Anonymous | 5:09 p.m. Feb. 26, 2010

"I agree with Elder Oaks. He has a lot of wisdom. Student's beliefs are many times unnecessarily destroyed by some professors with an agenda."

and there are no religious people w/ agendas because they are as pure as new fallen snow. Just ask Joel Osteen, Ralph Reed, GW Bush, John Hagee, Tim Tebow, Morris Cerullo, Pat Robertson, etc...

Anonymous

Re: All Knowing | 8:34 p.m. Feb. 26, 2010

It would mean Deism & Gnosticism are not compatible w/ the LDS Religion.

Re: Harvard Law Student

I have to agree with you, and you are so very correct on what you have written. I personally have been around and about many different religions and you have hit the nail on the head. Thank you, for your comment.

RL

RE: Harvard Law Student

Mormons may be a small drop in a large bucket,

but size has never been an indication of truth.

If there is a God then there can only be one FULLY true system of truth.

A TRUE god would be the author of anarchy.

and all other systems must be, to some degree or other a corruption of that truth.

or completely devoid of it.


that is why they are "absolutely convinced of the rightness of their own beliefs and the wrongness of everyone else's"

because it MUST be true,

or it is not.

RE: Harvard Law Student

[sorry, had make a small but very important correction.]

Mormons may be a small drop in a large bucket,

but size has never been an indication of truth.

If there is a God then there can only be one FULLY true system of truth.

A TRUE god would NOT be the author of anarchy.

and all other systems must be, to some degree or other a corruption of that truth.

or completely devoid of it.


that is why they are "absolutely convinced of the rightness of their own beliefs and the wrongness of everyone else's"

because it MUST be true,

or it is not.

RE: Harvard Law Student

Once I KNOW the FULL truth of the model of the atom,

I do not need to know the full details of past wrong models,

to know the truth.

IMHO

The more LDS play the whining, victim-of-persecution card and accuse "the world" of marginalizing them and being out to get them...

...the more it will become true! Higher education owes no allegience to LDS dogma. If LDS doctrine and theology cannot stand the heat of academic debate, then they deserve to be marginalized.

At least part of the intent of the Founders of the US Constitution with the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise" clause was so that religion could not be institutionalized with a privileged position as part of government and society. Instead, religion must fight it out in the free market of ideas along with all the other ideas. In our society, if religion in general, and LDS ideas in particular, are feeling marginalized, perhaps that is because you offer nothing of value!

Your doctrine is stodgy 19th century Puritanism mixed incoherently with German pop philosophy and social engineering; your Church organization is ancient hierarchical bureaucracy and paternalist authoritarianism combined with 19th century machine politics models; your Church is little more than a type of Multi-level Marketing club.

TDB

Once again the LDS know alls have arrived to argue a useless cause.

REALLY and HONESTLY, no one cares what you guys believe in.

Setaf

Amazing or maybe not, the number of people who opened their mouths and inserted their feet, who apparently did not read the story. Also, very few open minds on this forum. The ignorance shown is astounding. If you don't understand something you close your mind and either insult it or call it names. No great stock of genuine intelligence shown. Much of what Mr. Oaks' speaks about and against has made itself known right here. Maybe that's why some of the best minds have also practiced a bit of humility and humbleness.

Harvard Law Student

Re:Harvard Law Student

You illustrate my point beautifully... I take it you believe that yours is the "FULLY true system of truth" (whatever this means). And you know this because??? Before you say that God revealed it to you, I will remind you that countless people of other faiths tell me the exact same thing.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you have meticulously studied all other truth claims existant in the world and dismantled each one in turn. To do this you would have to show why your faith based truth claims are somehow different from all the rest. Can you do this? Observable evidence would be nice, but I don't think this is Mormonisms strong suit.

When you understand why you so easily dismiss all other truth claims as corrupt, you just might start to understand why I reject your truth claim as also corrupt.

Anonymous

The question of whether or not God exists is entirely unrelated to the question of whether any particular religion is correct. Every religion on earth could be 100% manmade and false(they are) and there could still be God. Of course, there might not be either.

Anti-mormons comment again

The anti's would like you to believe that religion is opposed to science. They would like you to believe that any one who believes in religion is stupid. They make fun of the church at every chance they get. They are flat out bitter- whether they were ex-communicated or were offended. The fact of the matter is that many educated people are religious. Many smart people have a testimony of the truth.

re: Setaf

I don't need to close my mind, insult it, or call names. Merely provide empirical or logical proof that God exists or your religion is true. It's never happened but I'm open to new evidence. Nothing has "made itself known." If you believe just on faith, that's fine for you, but someone's mere faith should have no standing or bearing on education, politics, etc. That's what you and others don't seem to comprehend. Where is your humility to the notion that your whole belief system is completely unsupported by any rational evidence? Where is your open mind to finding out you are mistaken?

Nonmember

You can't win a fight with a skunk.

Jake Sparrow

"The anti's would like you to believe that religion is opposed to science. They would like you to believe that any one who believes in religion is stupid. They make fun of the church at every chance they get. They are flat out bitter- whether they were ex-communicated or were offended. The fact of the matter is that many educated people are religious. Many smart people have a testimony of the truth."


Wow... listen to you, sounds like the, "Anti's" aren't the only ones who are bitter...

Anonymous

Some have a hard time facing reality.

Seattle Guy

RE: Harvard Law Student - I thought you "Harvard people" were "smart", yet you can't understand basic points. If the church is true and from God then you do have to worry about others. I'll make it simple for you since you are over thinking this- if 1+1= 2 and it is proven to be so not only by others, but you yourself have tested this and confirmed it; then why for example would you need to study 1+1=3, 1+1=7, or =5 ect? You don't. You apparently don't understand or know anything about the LDS Church, or beliefs. Church leaders DO encourage members to study other faiths (in a far matter); often having them (other churches) tell you about their own faith. They even do this at church schools. The LDS Church recognizes and teaches that other churches are good and have SOME truths. YOU yourself have proven Elder Oaks point- People like you only care about, and rely on the teachings of man, and will dismiss anything that would require faith. This is what many schools do.

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