Comments about ‘Don't marginalize religion, Elder Oaks says to Harvard law students’

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Published: Saturday, Feb. 27 2010 12:00 a.m. MST

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Religion is not under persecution. One simply has to look at any one dollar bill to come to this conclusion. (In God we Trust)
This constant talk of 'agendas' and yet we have catholic schools, seminary, legal weddings at churches when city calls are the only one's who give legal recognition to marriages....

It's all one big sham.

Let's give an example. Are you allowed to talk to a stranger about your faith in a public place?


Just think of all the good people who don't go to church, but if they did decide to go to church they would be considered great people. However, there is always an evil one at church who thinks he/she is better and greater than all others who attend church, and they usually go to church ONLY for social purposes to maintain some kind of status about him or herself. Some of these same folks become jealous of the better members and drive them out because they don't conform to their ways and didn't want to be part of their foolish, cliquish games of self righteousness.

Being a religious person has nothing to do with being part of a social group or a clique of snobs who don't appear to have a religious bone within their entire body. You can worship God without the funny business.


re: Old Snappy | 9:01 p.m. Feb. 27, 2010
"I will never forget two experiences while earning a PhD at U Wisconsin-Madison ...Then I had a genetics course from a gifted researcher and teacher. The last day of class he shared his belief that God was the greatest geneticist in the universe and his hope was to some day be counted worthy to be a petri dish washer in His lab."

Its not surprising that you find someone biased in Madison; I have heard its like Berkeley of the upper midwest.

I have long held the opinion that God is The greatest Natural & social scientist of all time.


"What would have happened if I would have said I agree with abortion? They would have kicked me out."

And I would have been kicked out for expressing an anti-abortion point of view at my school. Secular schools are way more close-minded, when it comes to different points of view, than BYU. I spent four years telling my professors exactly what they wanted to hear instead of thinking for myself and following my conscience, just so I could get a degree. I know other very intelligent people who didn't fall in line, and they didn't do so well.

Anonymous 2

To Anonymous Feb 27th 12:52. Not so fast! Please spare us the negatives! Michael Coe's statement denouncing Book of Mormon evidences was way back in 1973 in a Dialogue article. He was simple observing the situation then, nearly fourty years ago. Coe also in the same article made a rarely quoted statement defending viability of Book of Mormon archaeological research that explores and gathers evidences from all explorations to test the historic text. It is a long difficult process that Thomas Ferguson--not and archaeologist--did not understand when he started NWAF in the 1950's.

Overlooking an important point

In 2009 Dallin H. Oaks gave another talk at BYU-Idaho on Religious Freedom. He references an article "The Coming Evangelical Collapse" which lists reasons for the collapse including:

"Evangelicals have identified their movement with the culture war and with political conservatism."

Dallin Oaks didn't talk about this particular point nor do I hear Church leaders speaking to this issue. The marriage of religion and politics has been corrosive for our country and for religion. According to recent surveys, young people still hold beliefs in God similiar to prior generations yet they are less likely to go to church.


Comparing science to religion is absurd. Sure it changes, that's the way it's supposed to work. Various 'studies' don't equate to well developed theories, as if studies that come to different conclusions is even in the ballpark of religion shrinking from the light.

John Pack Lambert

To the 11:33 commentator,
It is also not clear that Michael Coe ever read the Book of Mormon enough to make statements on its historicity. Too often people set up straw man attacks on the Book of Mormon instead of actually paying attention to what it actually says.


Anonymous. I'm starting to respect the Amish more everyday. They choose not to use this technology to scream at everyone and yet call themself Anonymous.
I want to be invisible and yet tell everyone of their stupidity.
"the godless are the dull and dull are the damned"

stirring the pot

Per CNN...

"Evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa at the the London School of Economics and Political Science correlated data on these behaviors with IQ from a large national U.S. sample and found that, on average, people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs."

Anonymous is my name!

Is schmo anonymous or not? If you type Ken, George, Suzie Q or Fred is it or is it not anonymous? Seriously, a post like that and you're trying to do religion a favor? (Think about it.)


JPL..strawman? Seriously? Arguing Michael Coe's knowledge of the BOM is NOT a strawman? Puff...puff..

TO: hummm?

I agree that in any religious setting, it can be tempting for people to fall into the trap of judging, comparing and/or criticizing. Those who believe in Jesus Christ should act better and often don't. I'm truly sorry if this happened to you.

All that makes me think of the Pharisees in the New Testament who persecuted/looked down on Jesus Christ for associating with sinners. Christ came to save, not to condemn- and those who believe in Him, should do the same.

Please know that there are those out there, who believe in God (believe that "God is Love") and are doing their best to follow Him, not to play the silly game of "I'm "better" than you". We attend church on Sunday not to look down on others, but because we love God and His Son, want to serve them ,and are trying to learn to love others. (I say learn because we all mess up!) I hope you find peace...

TO: stirring the pot

I would still rather believe in God and be "fat, dumb and happy" as CNN and their "evolutionary psychologist" (the ultimate authority), I guess puts it. (I guess as opposed to "skinny, smart and unhappy", with my high IQ? :)...

High IQ does not automatically equal wisdom.
God is real and omnipotent. Finding Him brings peace.
Peace. (-to you :)


Can anyone on this list tell me that non-LDS archeologists and anthropologists take the Book of Mormon seriously? There's a reason why they don't. I'll let you figure out why.

Good comments

Why are people so judgmental of others? There is nothing spiritual about a judgmental person who looks down on others. I doubt in my life time peace will ever come to this earth with all the hate people spew around about others.


Satan loves to help us rationalize and justify things to make us feel better about something we are doing that we shouldn't or something we are doing but not. Satan is the father of all lies. There are too many people who are trying to "JUSTIFY" thier choices in life. I bet there are people reading this that just justified that there is not such thing as Satan. Once again, he's got ya! Don't worry when life get hard enough and you aren't truly happy, you'll return to the roots of a loving Father in Heaven. Oh.....there you go again, your telling yourself you really are happy in this life. Just keep rationalizing and justifying your position, maybe someday you'll finally convince yourself.


Dan, if admitting to myself that I don't know what lies behind the veil and wishing that men didn't tell my family that they did while building massive retail infrastructure is rationalization and justification of Satan....what can I say...I can live with you saying you believe that and actually LOVE that your allowed to post it, but these LDS issues will not die a quiet death.


Anonymous 6:57 wrote: "Can anyone on this list tell me that non-LDS archeologists and anthropologists take the Book of Mormon seriously? There's a reason why they don't. I'll let you figure out why."

It's easy. If they took the Book of Mormon seriously, they would convert to Mormonism, then they wouldn't be "non-LDS." People of all sorts of professions and educational levels do it all the time if they have the courage of their convictions.

It's amazing how wonderful life can be when one takes the Book of Mormon seriously. I am delighted by the serious reading I can do with the Book of Mormon, both devotional and scholarly. I am unapologetically delighted by the profound effect the book has on all aspects of my life.

re -- Jeff | 8:42 p.m

you just needed something to believe in. lots of people are like that. they need a higher power to give their life meaning.

and that's fine. good for you. just don't expect those of us that aren't insecure to believe it too.

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