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Published: Saturday, Feb. 27 2010 1:06 p.m. MST

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realitycheck

all I know is - college (excluding BYU of course)tends to make people less religious, since religious dogma cannot stand the light of knowledge.

if the bible or BoM says you should not drink coffee, but science class and health studies tells you it is ok in moderation, students rightfully question why they aren't supposed to drink it. If the answer is "God is against it" then that makes no sense, and they can see right through it. (especially when God couldn't care less about coffee....) So it leads to questions about anything religion says where the act doesn't have any impact and is simply written in some old book.

they also begin to understand that these old books are not history books, and that the stories are simply analogies.

Arm of Orion

I must admit that if I were to judge these posts I would have to quote Billy Madison, "We are all dumber for having read this. You receive no points and may God have mercy on your collective souls."

This has been nothing more than name calling and backbiting from both ends of the political spectrum. Does it really matter what happens to one if they come out as college a "liberal" or "conservative". Right now I propose something new and thus becoming a liberal and making many of you all conservatives. Let me propose that our current parties are absolutely broken and torn apart by the wings of the parties. I therefore propose a new part even a party that's main underlying tenant is that a good idea is a good idea no matter what the source. The party will be based upon moderate middle of the road planks and holding to the truths reserved within the constitution. Such as freedom of and from religion. The right to bear arms with certain restrictions. Freedom of speech with certain restrictions. To name a few.

Rational thought

I find in my discussions with most liberals, that they argue from their emotional ideal center. That's fine, but conservative thought takes a more rational view of how to solve problems. Conservatives build fences at the top of the cliff. Liberal progressives send ambulances to the bottom.

Education leads to knowledge, but it doesn't always lead to wisdom.

True Mormons are Liberals

(1844)

Tolerance
Inclusion
Environmentalism
Freeing the Slaves
Socialism - United Order
Women’s Rights (prior to Women’s Suffrage)
Universal Welfare Programs
Non-traditional Marriages
Free Speech
Free Religion (who, where, what they may)
Sustaining Vote
Extremely Progressive Immigration policies


Liberal concepts then -- Liberal concepts now.

~Peace

..can not be saved in ignorance.

Thomas S. Monson - 3 Hon. Doctorates, MBA, and B.S.
Henry B. Eyring - Professor, Doctorate, MBA, B.S.
Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Hon. Doctorate, MBA, BA

Boyd K. Packard - Ed.D., M.S. and B.S.
Richard G. Scott - Doctorate Nuclear Eng., B.S. Mech. Eng.
Dalin H. Oaks - Doctorate, M.S, B.A.
Russell M. Nelson - M.D., Ph.D., B.A.
Jeffrey R. Holland - Ph.D., M.A., B.A.



Some are Conservative,
Some are Liberal.

Some are Democrats,
Some are Republicans.

Some are Americans,
Some are from Socialist countries.

The point is, an education is of the utmost importance.

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, that a man can not be saved in ignorance.


The Glory of God IS intelligence.

Labels are the Problem II

Hey, I agree with the labels poster. For example, I lean liberal, but I by no means support abortion as a form of birth control. So what am I, a LINO... or a RINO.... or, well, not sure what I am supposed to be. So I am independent.

Those who think people who are liberal or conservative all fit into these nicely defined boxes really underestimate those around them. And that shows a lot of arrogance on both sides.

Anonymous

It is true that the trend is that the more educated a person becomes, the less religious he becomes. However, the LDS church is an exception to that trend; studies show the exact opposite for LDS members (they become more religious with more education, and the more religious they are, the more educated they get).

It is also interesting to note that most Mormons are conservative (look at Gallop poll). Coincidence? I think not.

To True Mormons are Liberals: Political issues in 1844 are very different from politics today. There isn't enough space to cover all of them, so I'll discuss just a few points:

Socialism vs United Order-- really? United Order is 100% voluntary (it only works that way anyway), not forced upon people like Socialism is.

Women's Rights-- you realize the church opposed the Equal Rights Amendment? Yeah, that idea has changed. A lot.

Welfare-- the church's welfare differs quite a bit from the liberals' welfare.

Marriage-- Mormons support TRADITIONAL marriage.

Free Speech-- yeah, Bush was very evil, trying to shut down all those talk shows (sarcasm implied).

Religion-- liberals want NO religion, not free religion.

Need I go on?

Jinx

The college experience today differs greatly from yesteryear.
Today's University's are nothing more than a communist re-education camp.
They now specialize in revisionist history and spew propaganda into the kids minds as fast as they can.

BobP

Winston Churchill said that if you are not a socialist at 20 your have no heart. If you are a socialist at 30 your have no head.

re:Jinx | 8:57 a.m.

Is that so?...


How then do you explain those "Liberal" students standing up to the consevative Communists in Tiananmen Square?

John

Does college make you liberal? Not if you go to BYU!

My choice to become liberal came after years of living in the trenches of northern orange county CA. Seeing the good, poor people struggling for a break made me realize that, just because the system gets abused, does not mean the system is bad.

Blame the abuser, not the system. And I've seen way more abuse in UT than anywhere else.

Byron

No, college makes you smarter.

Republicans and conservatives tend to use tactics like propaganda (ie Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O'riley, etc) instead of calm rational arguments. People who are educated tend to relate more to science and logic more than loud fiery propagandistic arguments.

If conservatives want to relate more to to educated people they should try not getting angry and loud about everything and instead try making arguments that would hold water on a piece of paper.

Balance

We need a balance between conservative and liberal. I don't know if that's possible, but it would be preferred. We are becoming more and more liberal and what has that done for us? Our best days are behind us. Now we just have to learn to survive. Each person has his own way. As for my household, we will serve the Lord.

mark

Why don't Conservatives worry more about their children ending up EDUCATED after college, rather than if they are moderate, liberal, or conservative.
It's ONLY conservative folks who worry about what political views younger people have in college, I've NEVER read of a moderate or liberal group wonder what political leanings a college may foster...NEVER.

Re: mark

"I've NEVER read of a moderate or liberal group wonder what political leanings a college may foster...NEVER."

Of course they don't wonder or worry, because they know that their college kids are being brainwashed with liberalism.

Utah is a different case (thank goodness for that), and although I have never grown up outside Utah, I served a mission in liberal Chicago and have had companions who have grown up outside Utah. They do brainwash! Starting from elementary the teachers pound liberal political ideas. Here in Utah, very rarely have I had a teacher talk politics (only 3 have, and 2 were liberal).

I've seen the way liberal societies work and the way conservative societies work, and by far the latter produces a much better community and environment. The LDS church plays a large part in our environment, whether you like it or not, and the church's ideas are more conservative than liberal. Utah is a state I can be proud of because of its values.

Anonymous

@Re:Mark

Unfortunately the censors here won't let my response be published, but there are schools/academies in Utah, that might make you less than proud. As someone with half my family from Utah, they certainly made me less proud of Utah.

re: realitycheck

"all I know is - college (excluding BYU of course)tends to make people less religious, since religious dogma cannot stand the light of knowledge"

You keep telling a lie long enough and it just might take hold. What religious dogma has not been able to stand the light of knowledge? There must be a better example than the one you gave of coffee. For the record, there has yet to be a study that confirmed coffee to be "good" for you in any amount. At best, in small amounts (and most people cannot limit themselves to small amounts), it is not harmful. That's not the same as "good for you."

But that's a very, very minor point. What other examples of knowledge trumping religious dogma can you provide?

mark

@realitycheck
knowledge trumping religious dogma

Jonah living in the belly of a fish
Methuselah being 900 yrs old

The lyric "it ain't necessarily so" should be paying in your head

re: Reality Check

"What other examples of knowledge trumping religious dogma can you provide?"

How about all of human history in terms of science and philosophy. Religious dogma, by definition, is not proven. Knowledge is actually proven. It was gained and was supported through science, not religion.

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