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Do college-educated people become liberal or conservative?

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  • re: Reality Check
    March 5, 2010 3:12 p.m.

    "What other examples of knowledge trumping religious dogma can you provide?"

    How about all of human history in terms of science and philosophy. Religious dogma, by definition, is not proven. Knowledge is actually proven. It was gained and was supported through science, not religion.

  • mark
    March 4, 2010 12:15 a.m.

    @realitycheck
    knowledge trumping religious dogma

    Jonah living in the belly of a fish
    Methuselah being 900 yrs old

    The lyric "it ain't necessarily so" should be paying in your head

  • re: realitycheck
    March 3, 2010 10:07 p.m.

    "all I know is - college (excluding BYU of course)tends to make people less religious, since religious dogma cannot stand the light of knowledge"

    You keep telling a lie long enough and it just might take hold. What religious dogma has not been able to stand the light of knowledge? There must be a better example than the one you gave of coffee. For the record, there has yet to be a study that confirmed coffee to be "good" for you in any amount. At best, in small amounts (and most people cannot limit themselves to small amounts), it is not harmful. That's not the same as "good for you."

    But that's a very, very minor point. What other examples of knowledge trumping religious dogma can you provide?

  • Anonymous
    March 3, 2010 8:50 p.m.

    @Re:Mark

    Unfortunately the censors here won't let my response be published, but there are schools/academies in Utah, that might make you less than proud. As someone with half my family from Utah, they certainly made me less proud of Utah.

  • Re: mark
    March 3, 2010 4:39 p.m.

    "I've NEVER read of a moderate or liberal group wonder what political leanings a college may foster...NEVER."

    Of course they don't wonder or worry, because they know that their college kids are being brainwashed with liberalism.

    Utah is a different case (thank goodness for that), and although I have never grown up outside Utah, I served a mission in liberal Chicago and have had companions who have grown up outside Utah. They do brainwash! Starting from elementary the teachers pound liberal political ideas. Here in Utah, very rarely have I had a teacher talk politics (only 3 have, and 2 were liberal).

    I've seen the way liberal societies work and the way conservative societies work, and by far the latter produces a much better community and environment. The LDS church plays a large part in our environment, whether you like it or not, and the church's ideas are more conservative than liberal. Utah is a state I can be proud of because of its values.

  • mark
    March 3, 2010 3:19 p.m.

    Why don't Conservatives worry more about their children ending up EDUCATED after college, rather than if they are moderate, liberal, or conservative.
    It's ONLY conservative folks who worry about what political views younger people have in college, I've NEVER read of a moderate or liberal group wonder what political leanings a college may foster...NEVER.

  • Balance
    March 3, 2010 2:47 p.m.

    We need a balance between conservative and liberal. I don't know if that's possible, but it would be preferred. We are becoming more and more liberal and what has that done for us? Our best days are behind us. Now we just have to learn to survive. Each person has his own way. As for my household, we will serve the Lord.

  • Byron
    March 3, 2010 12:14 p.m.

    No, college makes you smarter.

    Republicans and conservatives tend to use tactics like propaganda (ie Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, Bill O'riley, etc) instead of calm rational arguments. People who are educated tend to relate more to science and logic more than loud fiery propagandistic arguments.

    If conservatives want to relate more to to educated people they should try not getting angry and loud about everything and instead try making arguments that would hold water on a piece of paper.

  • John
    March 3, 2010 11:29 a.m.

    Does college make you liberal? Not if you go to BYU!

    My choice to become liberal came after years of living in the trenches of northern orange county CA. Seeing the good, poor people struggling for a break made me realize that, just because the system gets abused, does not mean the system is bad.

    Blame the abuser, not the system. And I've seen way more abuse in UT than anywhere else.

  • re:Jinx | 8:57 a.m.
    March 3, 2010 11:11 a.m.

    Is that so?...


    How then do you explain those "Liberal" students standing up to the consevative Communists in Tiananmen Square?

  • BobP
    March 3, 2010 9:45 a.m.

    Winston Churchill said that if you are not a socialist at 20 your have no heart. If you are a socialist at 30 your have no head.

  • Jinx
    March 3, 2010 8:57 a.m.

    The college experience today differs greatly from yesteryear.
    Today's University's are nothing more than a communist re-education camp.
    They now specialize in revisionist history and spew propaganda into the kids minds as fast as they can.

  • Anonymous
    March 2, 2010 11:39 p.m.

    It is true that the trend is that the more educated a person becomes, the less religious he becomes. However, the LDS church is an exception to that trend; studies show the exact opposite for LDS members (they become more religious with more education, and the more religious they are, the more educated they get).

    It is also interesting to note that most Mormons are conservative (look at Gallop poll). Coincidence? I think not.

    To True Mormons are Liberals: Political issues in 1844 are very different from politics today. There isn't enough space to cover all of them, so I'll discuss just a few points:

    Socialism vs United Order-- really? United Order is 100% voluntary (it only works that way anyway), not forced upon people like Socialism is.

    Women's Rights-- you realize the church opposed the Equal Rights Amendment? Yeah, that idea has changed. A lot.

    Welfare-- the church's welfare differs quite a bit from the liberals' welfare.

    Marriage-- Mormons support TRADITIONAL marriage.

    Free Speech-- yeah, Bush was very evil, trying to shut down all those talk shows (sarcasm implied).

    Religion-- liberals want NO religion, not free religion.

    Need I go on?

  • Labels are the Problem II
    March 2, 2010 8:12 p.m.

    Hey, I agree with the labels poster. For example, I lean liberal, but I by no means support abortion as a form of birth control. So what am I, a LINO... or a RINO.... or, well, not sure what I am supposed to be. So I am independent.

    Those who think people who are liberal or conservative all fit into these nicely defined boxes really underestimate those around them. And that shows a lot of arrogance on both sides.

  • ..can not be saved in ignorance.
    March 2, 2010 8:07 p.m.

    Thomas S. Monson - 3 Hon. Doctorates, MBA, and B.S.
    Henry B. Eyring - Professor, Doctorate, MBA, B.S.
    Dieter F. Uchtdorf - Hon. Doctorate, MBA, BA

    Boyd K. Packard - Ed.D., M.S. and B.S.
    Richard G. Scott - Doctorate Nuclear Eng., B.S. Mech. Eng.
    Dalin H. Oaks - Doctorate, M.S, B.A.
    Russell M. Nelson - M.D., Ph.D., B.A.
    Jeffrey R. Holland - Ph.D., M.A., B.A.



    Some are Conservative,
    Some are Liberal.

    Some are Democrats,
    Some are Republicans.

    Some are Americans,
    Some are from Socialist countries.

    The point is, an education is of the utmost importance.

    The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, that a man can not be saved in ignorance.


    The Glory of God IS intelligence.

  • True Mormons are Liberals
    March 2, 2010 7:43 p.m.

    (1844)

    Tolerance
    Inclusion
    Environmentalism
    Freeing the Slaves
    Socialism - United Order
    Women’s Rights (prior to Women’s Suffrage)
    Universal Welfare Programs
    Non-traditional Marriages
    Free Speech
    Free Religion (who, where, what they may)
    Sustaining Vote
    Extremely Progressive Immigration policies


    Liberal concepts then -- Liberal concepts now.

    ~Peace

  • Rational thought
    March 2, 2010 4:59 p.m.

    I find in my discussions with most liberals, that they argue from their emotional ideal center. That's fine, but conservative thought takes a more rational view of how to solve problems. Conservatives build fences at the top of the cliff. Liberal progressives send ambulances to the bottom.

    Education leads to knowledge, but it doesn't always lead to wisdom.

  • Arm of Orion
    March 2, 2010 4:54 p.m.

    I must admit that if I were to judge these posts I would have to quote Billy Madison, "We are all dumber for having read this. You receive no points and may God have mercy on your collective souls."

    This has been nothing more than name calling and backbiting from both ends of the political spectrum. Does it really matter what happens to one if they come out as college a "liberal" or "conservative". Right now I propose something new and thus becoming a liberal and making many of you all conservatives. Let me propose that our current parties are absolutely broken and torn apart by the wings of the parties. I therefore propose a new part even a party that's main underlying tenant is that a good idea is a good idea no matter what the source. The party will be based upon moderate middle of the road planks and holding to the truths reserved within the constitution. Such as freedom of and from religion. The right to bear arms with certain restrictions. Freedom of speech with certain restrictions. To name a few.

  • realitycheck
    March 2, 2010 4:44 p.m.

    all I know is - college (excluding BYU of course)tends to make people less religious, since religious dogma cannot stand the light of knowledge.

    if the bible or BoM says you should not drink coffee, but science class and health studies tells you it is ok in moderation, students rightfully question why they aren't supposed to drink it. If the answer is "God is against it" then that makes no sense, and they can see right through it. (especially when God couldn't care less about coffee....) So it leads to questions about anything religion says where the act doesn't have any impact and is simply written in some old book.

    they also begin to understand that these old books are not history books, and that the stories are simply analogies.

  • BeefJerky
    March 2, 2010 4:07 p.m.

    "Reality has a well-known liberal bias." ~ Stephen Colbert.

  • Anonymous
    March 2, 2010 4:05 p.m.

    "At UVU, we don't encourage them to change their point of view, just to be well-educated on the issues."

    The problem is that if you express a conservative point of view in college, they see that as being uneducated, regardless of how well you back it up. "Being well-educated on the issues" is just code for adopting the liberal point of view. Besides, the left decides what the "issues" are at college in the first place. Every conservative at college finds out really fast that if they want to graduate with good grades, they better fall in line and tell the professor exactly what they want to hear. No thinking allowed. Liberal leaning students don't ever have the burden of having to back up all of their opinions. They just regurgitate what the professor tells them. Conservative students, if they wish to express their opinions, spend lots of time digging up statistics, facts, historical records, only to have their professor reject their opinions as "uneducated" anyway.

  • To Jack M
    March 2, 2010 2:32 p.m.

    Academic translations:

    Open-minded and tolerant -- descriptive of a died-in-the-wool liberal, pro-abortion, anti-religion, anti-US, anti-business, anti-capitalist, unskilled in anything important to society, tree-hugging, anti-freedom true believer, who will never be swayed by any argument contrary to his own unreasonable and unfounded beliefs.

    In other words, a college professor.


    Bigoted -- descriptive of a conservative, regardless of education level, race, religion, charitable inclination or experience. One who loves the United States, its founding documents, and the democratic system they produced before being attacked and eroded by liberals [see "Open-minded and tolerant, above]. A businessman. Someone concerned for innocent human life, the traditional family, quality and quantity of life, and freedom. A person who distrusts government but is supremely confident in the inclination and abilities of people.

    In other words, the rest of us.

  • Anonymous
    March 2, 2010 1:50 p.m.

    So, because I am a liberal I have less value?

    I think not.

  • Normal in Provo
    March 2, 2010 10:11 a.m.

    Being born and raised in a conservative LDS home I have something to say.

    TO ALL CONSERVATIVES: face reality, in order to survive in the world today you cannot pretend like it does not exist. And your children will need educations so they can get jobs that can support families, think about it. And recognize that your children didn't write the rules to the game of life. So stop disowning us when we try to survive today.

  • Anonymous
    March 2, 2010 9:33 a.m.

    The liberal agenda is out to get you!

    The Conservative agenda said so!

  • G
    March 2, 2010 9:25 a.m.

    "
    FWIW; Mississippi has the highest per capita rate of church goers and the highest illeteracy rate? "


    If you must thumb your nose at the reading and writing skills of others, please spell "illiteracy" correctly while you do so.

    Also I'd have to point out that correlation doesn't prove causation. There are a lot of social, cultural, historical, and economic issues faced by the southern states, their problems are complex enough that you need to do a lot more than simply point out that religion and illiteracy are correlated to prove that religion, as an institution, causes a lack of education wherever it occurs. As I've said before, there have been times in history where nearly all literate people in Western society were involved in churches or monasticism. In fact, there are some very fine Jesuit universities today (Georgetown, Washington University-St. Louis). I'm considering a graduate program at a Southern Baptist university (not a baptist myself). BYU is a great school, especially the law program.

  • George Nada
    March 1, 2010 8:36 p.m.

    re: Anonymous | 11:36 a.m. March 1, 2010

    Dennis Miller back when he was funny once quipped, "Alabama is Darwin's waiting room."

    Your point is...

  • mark
    March 1, 2010 2:02 p.m.

    Even if colleges caused more people to become liberal, and I don't believe you made that case...so what?
    It is perfectly legal to hold liberal views in this country, what is ILLEGAL is trying to force someone against their will to believe something, which seems more what the "CONCERNED" "Focus on the FAMILY" and "National Organization for Marriage" folks try to foist on our population.

  • Henry Drummond
    March 1, 2010 12:08 p.m.

    You might want to check out the web site of the group that did this survey. I don't think this is any kind of non-partisan think tank. The link is in the article.

  • Anonymous
    March 1, 2010 11:36 a.m.

    @George Nada- That's just the South. I lived in Alabama and the non religious were equally as illiterate as the religious.

  • Jack M
    March 1, 2010 10:31 a.m.

    I had a hard time understanding this article. In the opening paragraph I get the impression Moore is suggesting that the liberal college professors are not open minded or tolerant.

    Yet when I read the article Dr. Englehardt sounded as much or more open minded and tolerant to me than did Mr. Mero.

    Maybe I'm not sure what it means to be open minded and tolerant.

  • WIconserv.
    March 1, 2010 8:43 a.m.

    I find it interesting and delusional that liberals talk of being liberal to be compassionate to the poor when various studies have consistently shown that conservatives give more generously of both time and money to the poor. Liberals are good at emoting compassion with other peoples money in the form of government handouts. I know a highly educated liberal acquaintance who admitted the truth that he believed in gov handouts to minorities in order to "through them a bone and keep them happy". Conservatives believe in empowering all people to succeed whether they are educated or not.

  • john in texas
    Feb. 28, 2010 11:06 p.m.

    I am a college graduate.
    1)I am against same-sex marriage.
    2)I am against abortion on demand.
    3)I support prayer in public schools. (I grew up
    with that experience in the 50's).
    4)I believe the bible is holy scripture.
    5)To be economically healthy, spend less than you
    make. Save something. live within your means.
    If you want something, labor honestly for it.
    Help your neighbor when they are in need. Don't
    steal. Be kind to others. Be true to your marriage
    vows.
    6)YOU GUESSED IT. I AM A CONSERVATIVE.

  • What the...?
    Feb. 28, 2010 6:40 p.m.

    Quote: "The ISI's survey of 2,508 U.S. adults shows that graduating from college "does not significantly impact a person's views on economic issues," nor does it significantly influence a person's "civic knowledge" – their understanding of American history, government or foreign affairs."

    So, what exactly are these people studying?

  • George Nada
    Feb. 28, 2010 3:10 p.m.

    re: Illiterate people | 5:12 p.m. Feb. 26, 2010

    FWIW; Mississippi has the highest per capita rate of church goers and the highest illeteracy rate?

  • re: Anon 7:46
    Feb. 28, 2010 10:56 a.m.

    "Does college make one liberal? Gosh, i sure how so. I don't want my kids--future college students--to follow conservatism's key tenets of greed and callous disregard for the poor."

    Let me know which school you send your kids to and I'll send mine elsewhere. I don't want my kids to learn laziness, entitlement and corruption. And when you don't get your way, whine loud and sue everyone. That's the liberal way!

  • Re: liberal Larry
    Feb. 28, 2010 9:38 a.m.

    "People who go to college tend to be more intelligent than the average population. Since they are smarter there is a greater likelihood they will be liberal. It all makes perfect sense."

    This is an age old myth with no proof. As proof to the contrary, I can tell you that many of my friends and I have IQ's well above average with multiple college degrees. We run businesses and a few of us teach at the university in the evening to young minds thirsting for real world education rather than pontifications from ivory towerites who have not so much as ever made change for a $5 bill.

    Given the fact that liberalism has never worked at any time in any place and that taken to its end, it has to be mandated by force, I think it's safe to conclude that liberalism and intelligence are not related in any way.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 28, 2010 7:46 a.m.

    Does college make one liberal? Gosh, i sure how so. I don't want my kids--future college students--to follow conservatism's key tenets of greed and callous disregard for the poor.

  • Re: Liberal and LDS
    Feb. 28, 2010 7:41 a.m.

    Liberal and LDS writes, "Remember, we're supposed to depend on ourselves first, then our family, then the Church, and the government comes in dead last. We're supposed to be anxiously engaged in good causes, not compelled to do good."

    This may all work fine if you're a Mormon living in Utah, but what if you're not? When caring for the poor, sick, and infirm is left up to biased individual citizens, aid gets distributed in a way that is fundamentally inequitable.

  • Truth
    Feb. 28, 2010 4:07 a.m.

    The internet killed religion! Open the gates and let the roman lions out!

  • mark
    Feb. 28, 2010 12:37 a.m.

    Some of the most heinous chapters of human History is when persuasive leaders gave a stupid uneducated populace, or a desperate populace, or a frightened populace, SIMPLE answers to complex problems, many times it was to blame a scapegoat,(could be Jews, could be gays, could be women accused as witches, could be Mormons, could be Muslims.)
    The intelligensia, the educated citizens QUESTION those simple answers, mobilize against those leaders, then they are attacked and silenced.

  • mark
    Feb. 28, 2010 12:20 a.m.

    @Liberal and LDS
    At the time of the writing of the Gospels, Israel was under foriegn occupation of Rome. Of course there would be no giving to the government to provide for the poor, it wasn't the Jew's own government, and Rome could have cared less what became of poor, or sick, or hungry/thirsty Jews, that wasn't their citizens.

  • Robert
    Feb. 28, 2010 12:17 a.m.

    *yawn*
    This article is a waste of time. Conservatism has always been scared of the enlightened. What university indoctrination? This is a myth. There is just a strong correlation between being well educated and being liberal.

  • mark
    Feb. 28, 2010 12:11 a.m.

    I was radically progressive begining in Junior High School, college didn't alter that for me, it also wasn't the cause. I did meet more people who shared my views in college, and some challenged me to broaden my interests and concerns, which made me BETTER.
    As for becoming conservative with age, hasn't happened in my late 50's, and my Mormon grandmother until she died in her late 70's, was still a diehard fan of FDR, and would have happily had him as president another 3 terms.

  • Does it really matter
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:44 p.m.

    Having an education is critical, right now the US is struggling to compete with other countries. And people are arguing if you are college grad you're a liberal communist. Come on man, its up to the individual who they want to be not the school. Its all about you, if you want to have a conservative or liberal attitude. LDS church leaders as well as our President has encouraged us to get an education. We are falling behind, we need to show our children a better education programs, make them bilingual, and make them better mathematics and technology. Its sad when countries like Germany and China are smarter than the US.

  • Liberal and LDS
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:07 p.m.

    Please show me where in the scriptures we're supposed to hand over our money to the government to distribute to the poor? Please show me where any prophet or general authority has advocated the government as a good solution to helping widows and orphans? Because I can come up with plenty of quotes showing that charity begins at home, not the government welfare office. Remember, we're supposed to depend on ourselves first, then our family, then the Church, and the government comes in dead last. We're supposed to be anxiously engaged in good causes, not compelled to do good.

  • Ted
    Feb. 27, 2010 9:35 p.m.

    Could you start with, perhaps, a less biased title to the article. Yes I am more Liberal having gone to college, but I see that as a continuation of important principle of the Gospel, such as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, comforting the despairing (to paraphrase from the Savior), or caring for the widow, the orphan, the disenfranchised as a hallmark of true religion (see the Epistle of James). Yes, I am more Liberal, because that's what I am taught by the Prophet, not as politics but as compassion. PS, my degree was in Bible.

  • @liberal Larry
    Feb. 27, 2010 9:21 p.m.


    liberal Larry | 5:38 p.m. Feb. 26, 2010
    People who go to college tend to be more intelligent than the average population. Since they are smarter there is a greater likelihood they will be liberal. It all makes perfect sense

    Agreed and there are a lot of things that can make you "smart" besides college. Everyone should get to live in Cleveland, St. Louis, detroit or DC for awhile.

    From my observation the youth who are born & raised and then work for Dad and take over the business have the biggest problems. They may even run the business successfully, but as far as feeling and understanding what others think and having a good basic for their opinions are often the worst.

    The attitude of "DON'T CONFUSE ME .... with the alternatives, my mind is already made up" is apparent in many.


    I agree with the article that we may not change our ideas but we should be open to hear others and ready to explain our values in an intelligent way to others.

    To vote for someone because you like red-headed people and nothing will change you mine is part of that attitude.

  • mark
    Feb. 27, 2010 9:02 p.m.

    I'll take my Bachelor's degree any day over the "lifelong" listening to Hannity, Glenn Beck and Limbaugh.
    When totalitarian forces want to overturn a Nation and silence it's critics, (whether radical Right fascisim, or radical Left communism) they attack the COLLEGES, and it's professors and students, because those citizens KNOW what History has shown to be dangerous.

  • Ever Heard
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:48 p.m.

    the term "Educated Idiot". Sure there are many who think they have a ton of education from various prestigious institutions, but I found many do not have wisdom. I'll take wisdom over education everyday. And yes, I have a college degree.

  • Neil
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:19 p.m.

    Regard Conservatism = truth. Health care may not be a right but it is a moral issue. How can we call ourselves a christian nation when millions of americans have no access to basic health care. What you are advocating is called social darwinism or everyone for themselves. If you don't have insurance or the money for medical care just go crawl in a hole and die. The constitution provides government the right to promote the general well being. Millions of citizens living in poverty is not the general well being. True conservatism is total selfishness or in other words let those who don't succeed fall by the wayside regardless of how hard they have tried. Read the scriptures and focus on charity. Helping the poorest of the poor is not socialism it is a measure of our humanity.

  • justcap
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:01 p.m.

    I'm a college senior, and the two things that have most bothered me are the students who BLINDLY FOLLOW the viewpoint of their liberal professors, and those who pretend to be "liberal" (aka secular) only because it is the COOl and POPULAR thing to do. These students are the exact opposite of what they think they are.

  • Conservativism = Evil
    Feb. 27, 2010 7:06 p.m.

    Osama bin Laden is a Conservative.
    Papa Doc was a Conservative.
    Every South African Apartheid president was a a Conservative.
    Stalin was a Conservative.
    Hitler was a Conservative.
    Dick Cheney is a Conservative.
    Sarah Palin is a Conservative.

    Jesus Christ was a Liberal.
    Gandhi was a Liberal.
    Joseph Smith was a Liberal.

    When comparing Conservatives and Liberals it is easy for me to decide whose company I would want to be in.

  • Me? Liberal.
    Feb. 27, 2010 6:17 p.m.

    Many students, liberal or conservative, don't need higher education to construct a proper sentence. So, the poster at 10:09, missed the chance at credibility with the name "Why students get more liberal." I believe it should be, become more liberal. No matter. The author then listed various professions bent on massing liberals. Perhaps he never heard of these Actors (Charlton Heston), Musicians (Ted Nugent), Pro Athletes (Curt Shilling), Career Politicians (a twofer with former MLB player, Republican Sen. Jim Bunning) and Academician (Bill Bennett went to Harvard--does that count?).

    But the best was this gem from WSGML: The only major exception to this is with union members, who are captive to their hyper-liberal indoctrinating union leadership and fearful of falling out of step.

    Huh? What? Seems clear who is really fearful of falling out of step.

  • G
    Feb. 27, 2010 5:54 p.m.

    To tell the truth, when I left for college, I was a liberal. That sometimes happens to 18 year olds.

    When I got there, I met other liberals, which were a rarity in my home town. Some of those liberals were my professors, and I still hold high regard for them. But most of the liberals my age I found to be strange, melancholic, self-important, unintelligent, emotionally unstable, incredibly dogmatic people that shout a lot. I thought a lot of them probably had terrible childhoods and never got over the baggage.

    Once I mentioned a guest lecture from an environmental scientist that told us that aluminum recycling pollutes the environment so severely that he doesn't do it anymore. They actually yelled at me. In a class discussion. They're like those things on Doctor Who. Luckily I took mostly science classes so there weren't many I had to put up with.

    When I graduated, I was a conservative. Working with state regulators later confirmed my decision.

  • WOW
    Feb. 27, 2010 4:53 p.m.

    I am amazed at how weak families must be in that universities can change so much about people- must be a failure in the home to teach anything and give any foundation that all these blank slates show up to college and we prof. fill their brains with whatever we like- this researfch is flawed at so many levels it is just not worth commenting on- notice how it is self published becuase these results would not make it into a 3rd tier journal let alone one worth anything- in a tenure file this work would get you denied tenure as opposed to help you- sad we have all wasted so much time and space on this- worthless at many levels- interestiung questions that need research but this is not it

  • RoveQuote
    Feb. 27, 2010 2:45 p.m.

    "As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing. " Karl Rove

  • Rita
    Feb. 27, 2010 1:38 p.m.

    "Does college make people more liberal?"

    I hope so.

  • to 8:45 PM
    Feb. 27, 2010 1:12 p.m.

    "Now I understand why Republicans are so against education. If people become smart, they become liberal. We certainly can't have that."

    I love statements like yours because they are flawed in so many ways. If you don't mind please allow me to add to your ultra-intelligent comment: You forgot to mention all those well educated immigrants from south of the boarder who vote for liberals, the inner-city poor with their ivy league universities do the same, and don't forget the low-income PhD's living in the ghetto. Yep, you're right. They all vote for liberals because years of education and reading have lead them to that conclusion.

    To quote the popular vernacular..."LOL"

  • Ethan
    Feb. 27, 2010 1:03 p.m.

    It's a fair statement that education makes one break free of the superstitions of the past.

  • SLMG
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:52 p.m.

    Why do Conservatives seem to always think liberals hate them just because they don't agree with them? I believe the better educated a person becomes the more likely they are to take the middle ground and judge each issue on it's own merit, education makes one more prone to look at many sides of an issue. As the populace become more educated the more independent thinkers and voters we be come. People are not being sucked into either party as in the past and are laughing at the talking heads of TV, both liberal and conservative. People are thinking for them selves and using their free agency in decision making.

  • To "Cedarite"...
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:48 p.m.

    My problems with liberals is not that they are "as idle as you accuse me of wanting to be"... It's trying to force your FANTACY world ideas on me in the REAL world.

    I'd love the world of free flowing milk and honey as well, but it's not going to happen in this day and age. It didn't work in the communist/socialist/liberalist USSR and it won't work here either. As long as the liberal belief includes "ENTITLEMENT, the liberal agenda will only make things worse.

    Like I said before... send me your money to fill my needs. I'm as "ENTITLED" as anyone. If you want everyone to give, give, give... might as well give to me.

  • Take the "Quiz"
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:28 p.m.

    Visit the ISI website (link at the bottom of the article) and take the quiz. How well did you do? Do you consider it a good quiz?

  • Cedarite
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:18 p.m.

    Education is a good thing | 11:13 -
    As a member of an old established liberal church, I'm wondering if liberal Christians fall into your "unworthy of education" category also? you seem to assume all Christians are hard line conservatives, whereas I do not find the actual teachings of Christ to be compatible with contemporary aggressive commando style conservatism.

    A Dream Life... | 11:38 a.m
    As a liberal who owns a business, in my fantasy world it would be a land of free flowing milk and honey for everyone however reality is and probably always will be a 60 hour work week. But if my investments and hard work pay off I intend to remain just as idle as you accuse me of wanting to be. Oh, horrors!

  • Wow
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:05 p.m.

    So I guess most of you think that people shouldn't go to college and learn anything? You are probably the same people who are posting in the earthquake story that the earthquake and impending tsunami are because of unrighteousness.

    Earth's forces are easy to pigeon-hole into "God's wrath" rather than learning about Geology, Meteorology, etc.

    Yes, I'm a college grad from a religious school and I am as liberal as can be. I also work hard, do not have a sense of entitlement, and understand civics, economics, etc. Religions want to keep people uneducated, or at least keep them indoctrinated in their faith. It is easier to control them that way.

  • College people more thinking
    Feb. 27, 2010 11:55 a.m.

    I went to university later in life, and I am more liberal now than before I went.

    University didn't teach me to be more liberal.

    1) It taught me to think critically, to examine in depth any argument.

    2) It taught me to pay attention to both sides of an argument.

    I am more liberal now because I realize the foundations that caused my deep conservatism, were somewhat faulty. Where it was shaky I replaced it with a more sure foundation.

    Now I see truth in all philosophies, conservatism, liberalism, capitalism and socialism. Its ironoc that in a way I have returned to my roots, as Paul says, "Prove all things, hold fast to that which is true".

  • A Dream Life (2)...
    Feb. 27, 2010 11:50 a.m.

    Oops... instead of I "DESERVE", it should be I'm "ENTITLED"!

  • A Dream Life...
    Feb. 27, 2010 11:38 a.m.

    I kind of like the liberal viewpoint... I've worked for a few years now. I'm not at retirement age yet, but I want to quit work, so I think I will. So, all you liberals... start sending your money my way. I still have needs you know... a new house, a new car, a new TV, a trip to Europe. I "DESERVE" all those things and I am in "NEED"!

  • Education is a good thing
    Feb. 27, 2010 11:13 a.m.

    It turns out that common sense is intrinsically more important than education. A person with good common sense is a smart person. A person with poor common sense will always be an idiot no matter how many facts and figures and theories you cram into his brain. He can't compute. That defines liberals, they can't compute. They may be educated but they don't understand how to use it. Exactly describes Obama, for example. A person with common sense understands that he can also be a faithful person. A person with no intrinsic intelligence will never have faith and will never understand how to use his education, so it will be wasted. Education is wasted on the liberal, they still are not intelligent and they have a warped view of the world.

  • Christian Colleges
    Feb. 27, 2010 11:07 a.m.

    Christian missionaries must take Biblical Greek 101.
    The Greek Septuagint(the Apostles O.T.)when compared to the JST(inspired Version) totally refutes, JST Genesis 1-6, Which is where the Book of Moses is extracted from.

    " If the Glory of God is intelligence,Why not use it?"

  • re: conservatism=truth
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:59 a.m.

    I'll take your last statement one step further.

    Liberalism = Progressivism = big govnerment = no personal freedom or liberty or personal responsibiliy.

    Their idea is do whatever you want and don't worry about the consequences. If it feels good do it, and don't think about the road it puts you on. Someone else will bail you out later.

  • Sad journalism
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:41 a.m.

    Why does the Desnews continue to use Mero and his Sutherland institute as a source for all things political? Give a group a name and suddenly they are qualified to state their opinions authoritatively on any subject. Ridiculous. That Mero is even allowed to claim that his group is somehow a safe-haven for independent thought is laughable. Prove it Mero. Give me one documented instance of an idea not fully capable of passing the conservative purity test that has ever been given serious consideration in your "institute." An education does not create liberalism; it defeats totalitarianism.

  • What is ISI?
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:35 a.m.

    "Intercollegiate Studies Institute" sure sounds like an objective, non-ideological organization. Something I learned from my "liberal" college education was to do a little digging and not readily accept information at face value. It's website says, "Every study shows that the university is dominated by liberal professors. It is no wonder this country is currently on a slippery slope to socialism. Young Americans need to know their history. They cannot win battles if they cannot win arguments." OBJECTIVE???

    Its online bookstore carries "Conservative books from yeterday and today." According to its website, Ronald Reagan said, "By the time the Reagan Revolution marched into Washington, I had the troops I needed - thanks in no small measure to the work with American youth ISI had been doing since 1953. I am proud to count many ISI products among the workhorses of my two terms as President."

    Of course Americans are historically and civically illiterate. We must work to fix this. But I don't believe that a "test" created by an agenda-driven conservative institution accurately measures America's students' historic knowledge. Shame on the Deseret News for portraying this study as newsworthy.

  • Conservatism=truth
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:33 a.m.

    Here's the harsh reality; the individual is empowered in the United States by the Constitution as the Founders believed, and rightfully so, that government is the greatest threat to personal liberties. America is about freedom, liberty, and pursuit of happinness. Our rights are not, not provided by government, but by God. Hence, government has no foundation to take away our rights, nor to provide them, but rather it is We the People who secure them. Fact= health care is not a right; social security is not a right, illegals are not entitled, education is not a right..the only rights we have are those enshrined in the Bill of Rights, chief among these are: freedom of speech, worship, right to bear arms (shall not be infringed by anyone or any government), private property..and you can read the rest on-line.
    Liberalism = Progressivism = big govnerment = no personal freedom or liberty.

  • Humpty-dumpty
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:27 a.m.

    In Alice in Wonderland, Humpty-Dumpty proudly proclaims, "Words mean exactly what I want them to mean", boldly denying that they have any intrinsic meaning. That's what Paul Mero does here - "conservative" means someone who agrees with Paul Mero, and "liberal" means anyone who does not. When you twist definitions, you can accuse anyone of anything.

    The truth, though, is that Paul Mero and the Sutherland Institute promote positions that require a more invasive government and less freedom for anyone who does not fit his definition of "conservative". But a larger and therefore more invasive and restrictive government is actually a LIBERAL position, by any reasonable definition. Paul can't even define himself, how in the world can anyone take him seriously when he tries to define others?

  • Why do they become liberal?
    Feb. 27, 2010 10:21 a.m.

    "if a kid goes to college, they become more selfish, more cynical and more secular."
    Isn't it also interesting that they don't learn anything about "civic knowledge."
    They don't understand that freedom isn't free. that's why they become more liberal.

  • Thinking and Tolerance
    Feb. 27, 2010 9:57 a.m.

    Good colleges encourage thoughtfulness and an openness to unfamiliar ideas. Openness fosters tolerance for divergent opinions. I don't know if higher education makes people more liberal, but I do believe it helps them to analyze and question their own opinions and other people's ideas and to embrace a more nuanced view of the world.

  • Big surprise
    Feb. 27, 2010 9:49 a.m.

    Colleges used to teach civics, economics and the history of Western Civilization - but that's been gutted at most universities. Now they teach women's studies, minority studies, and Marxism. College professors overwhelmingly are extremely liberal - and that carries over into the curriculum. That's well documented. At many universities, especially in the soft sciences and the humanities, there are NO professors who are conservative. So we send 18 year olds there, without any prior knowledge of civics (since the public schools barely teach it either), they get indoctrinated for 4 years with liberal dogma, and then they come out thinking they know everything and that conservatives are stupid.

  • Questions
    Feb. 27, 2010 9:20 a.m.

    What questions did the survey ask?

    And did it ask people about their parent's political views?

    Political compass org has an interesting quiz.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:58 a.m.

    If you're young and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you're old and not a conservative, you have no brain.

  • to oldman
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:40 a.m.

    darkness = middle ages, totalitarinism, fascism, communism..that was the dark.

    Light= Enlightenment, Republic, Democracy, Newton who attributed Nature's Laws to our Creator.

    College Professors - Where those with Secular Progressive/Global Government views remain insulated, untested, and all too comfortable. Where over 80% of proffessors voted for Democrats...and that is tolerable? Some of the most oppressive/intolerable/inhumane people I've ever met were college professors.

  • Labels are the Problem
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:31 a.m.

    Conservatives like Mero have convinced Americans that Liberals are Godless and Conservativism is the only true and living religion. The problem is both Conservative and Liberal approaches are both Christian and anti-Christian.

    To over simplify, Liberals support abortion on demand, Gay Marriage and sexual freedom, which are considered by many to be anti-Christian. They also support the fatherless, the widow and turn the other cheek in the search for peace, which are Christian virtues.

    To similarly over simplify, Conservatives believe in the Bible, support individual responsibility and preach chastity, which are considered Christian. They also support greed (do not tax me to care for the lazy), enforce their moral code on everyone (Satan's plan) and lied us into a war of aggression in Iraq (I am a proud veteran), which are anti-Christian.

    When we align our religious thinking with one of these labels, we grossly oversimplify and therefore accept the bad with the good. Education should make us more discerning. The great Utah State Senator James E. Faust political motto was "I am very conservative when it comes to money and morals, but very liberal when it comes to people."

  • I would disagree...
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:25 a.m.

    with the assumption that every educated person I have met happens to be liberal. However, most liberals that I have met do think that they are smarter than most everone else and look down on those that have a religious belief as shallow thinkers.

    However, I do find it interesting that you can only be open minded and free thinking when you agree with a liberal and that their open bigotry towards ideas that they disagree with is not often recognized.

  • Neighbor
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:17 a.m.

    See the "seventeen factors" chart on the website provided. The results seem inconsistent and may reflect sampling bias.

    For example, the table implies that someone leaning conservative tends to earn more money and live in the South. Being liberal reflects being female, college educated and living in the Northeast.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 27, 2010 8:00 a.m.

    Why is Paul Mero so cynical about college education? He's the proud ownwer of a 4-year degree--what qualifies him to offer commentary on this subject when he's only been one campus for a short time?

  • the closed mind
    Feb. 27, 2010 7:39 a.m.

    When are conservatives going to figure out that the more they try and demonize liberals the more liberal the liberals become?

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 27, 2010 7:34 a.m.

    Conservatism is about keeping things the same, keeping people from deviating from the "norm", keeping people from challenging the status quo. Had Joseph Smith been conservative, the Church would never have been established. Ironic, isn't it?

  • Chachi
    Feb. 27, 2010 7:09 a.m.

    More educated people tend to be more liberal.

    More educated people tend to make more money.

    Wealthier people tend to be more conservative.

    Something tells me that several of these correlations only hold true in a slight majority of cases.

  • Republican....
    Feb. 27, 2010 7:06 a.m.

    Well, perhaps you should have gone to masters programs at schools where you actually have to interact with people, and work somewhere else. Branding management as all "republican" just shows how isolated you really are. Political leaning has nothing to do with you capacity to earn money. It does impact what you do with it once you have it though.

    I also reject college makes one smart - it just make you more informed. But there in lies the problem. A good college professor will teach you how to learn and ask questions. A poor college professor makes you memorize a bunch of stuff. We are turning out way to many memorizors and way too few thinkers - regardless of political affiliation.

    I don't want employees who just do. I want employees who ask why and seek better ways of dong things. I don't want church goers who attend because they blindly follow. I want fellow observants who have challenged what they believe and work it out for themselves - regardless of what religion you are.

  • Lady
    Feb. 27, 2010 5:59 a.m.

    Stop to think about WHO is teaching at the college level! Most are products of the 60's and 70's, and they are advancing very liberal and secular views, especially in the social sciences. Their students are fed what they espoused. What she describes in her teaching is not real critical thinking, but rather secular ethics. I have seen the sad results, and I worry about "so called" higher education. Much of it is a paper mill of qualification. Very sad. It should not be this way. There is an epidemic of secularization in the world, so we don't have to wonder where it starts.

  • i am reality
    Feb. 27, 2010 5:53 a.m.

    We mistake Liberal views with Liberal politicians.

    Liberal politicians are convinced that money grows on trees and that we taxpayers can pay for everyone's education, health-care, and climate change.

    Jesus was able to cure anyone without a 20 percent co-pay because he believed in miracles.

  • Skewed Stats
    Feb. 27, 2010 4:42 a.m.

    The only shocking statistic in all of this is the dwindling numbers of advancing people who believe the Bible is the word of God. That is likely something America should worry about. Other staistics can be attributed to the fact that people become more calloused as they go through life, realizing a more open-minded approach is more realistic.

    As a young teen, I wouldn't have known nor comprehended the amount of "hard work and perseverence" required to make the life most people desire. Nor would I have considered same-sex marriage an ok thing to do...but now that I'm older, and have actually experienced more and been around more people, the social technicalities don't matter as much as a person.

  • oldman
    Feb. 27, 2010 4:31 a.m.

    Religion - darkness. Education - light.

  • Paul
    Feb. 27, 2010 4:07 a.m.

    Yes, but then reality bring them back to the real world.

  • BJ
    Feb. 27, 2010 4:07 a.m.

    I have worked with a number of college grads over the last 25 years and unfortunately there is some truth to college grads being more liberal. I have even talked with parents who have mentioned that their kids have taken on more liberal views after attending college. Those who voted for Obama in my view voted against Bush and didn't pay attention to what Obama said he intended to do. Then again what he said and what he is doing are not the same either, the guy told people what he thought they wanted to hear to get elected. Obama said, I won't raise your taxes, no pork barrel spending, I'll support manned space flight, just to name a few. The supposed stimulus package was nothing but a pork barrel spending package, cap and trade will raise our taxes all by itself let alone the need to pay for the enormous deficit spending. The manned space program, Ares and Constellation are to be canceled, setting back our manned space program thirty years a putting the U.S. behind China, India and France and maybe even Russia in space. That's change alright!

  • Holy Cow!
    Feb. 27, 2010 2:11 a.m.

    Don't give Buttars any ideas! He'll certainly ax college in addition to grade 12.

  • Critical thinking
    Feb. 27, 2010 1:59 a.m.

    This is an interesting study, but it's worth pointing out that it was produced by a group with a well-known conservative bias; it should come as no surprise that their conclusions matched their ideology.

  • Roland Kayser
    Feb. 27, 2010 1:23 a.m.

    The basic position of Socrates was that he did not know anything. Everything needed to be questioned, nothing could be assumed as a given. He did not teach the youth of Athens "radical"(or liberal) theories, he taught them to question everything they thought they knew.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:59 a.m.

    Activism can be great, but I dislike impressionable college students who take one or two political science classes and then are all of a sudden extremely opinionated, and "know it all's." They tend to bash capitalism, and support socialism because they wrote a few papers on Karl Marx. They hang out at Starbucks with their lap tops.

  • Republican
    Feb. 27, 2010 12:34 a.m.

    I attended a liberal college for my undergraduate degree and basically told the profs what they wanted to hear for 4 years, got my degree, and came out of it even more conservative than when I went in.

    Most of the profs there had never had a job in the real world and were constantly griping about their pay and funding for education. Very few of them cared about me as a student or really educating people.

    I got the first of my 2 master's degrees from an oft-maligned on-line school. The instructors were people who (gasp!) had actually worked in the field they were teaching and I learned so much more than my wasted 4 years in undergrad.

    In the private sector, I haven't found many liberals - at least not in management. Most of the liberals I encounter are obsessed with grievances instead of bucking up and getting the job done despite the challenges.

  • Glad Grad
    Feb. 26, 2010 11:11 p.m.

    College grads more liberal? I'm not so sure about that. I know from my college Statistics class that you can prove about anything you want in a poll. The Sutherland Institute is going to get a different outcome than a Liberal group will. I think I met an equal amount of Liberals and Conservatives in College. What I did learn is to open my mind. I became more aware of the Cultural differences and similarities between people and to respect that.

  • Nono
    Feb. 26, 2010 10:53 p.m.

    Paul Mero is just mad at college students cause they voted for Obama.

  • Why students get more liberal
    Feb. 26, 2010 10:09 p.m.

    You liberals would like to think that the reason graduates have become more liberal is become they've become smarter, but that's not the case.

    They've become more liberal because they've been immersed for four years in theory instead of real life. In theory liberalism makes all the sense in the world; it suffers terribly in practice.

    The further one gets from the reality of what it takes to get ahead in life, the more liberal they become.

    Look no further than actors, musicians, professional athletes, career politicians, academia, etc., etc.

    The only major exception to this is with union members, who are captive to their hyper-liberal indoctrinating union leadership and fearful of falling out of step.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 26, 2010 10:05 p.m.

    republicans aren't against education any more than democrats hate free speech.

  • Tom
    Feb. 26, 2010 9:10 p.m.

    Education builds charactor, appreciation and concern for more than ones self with a liberal heart to help and share with others.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 26, 2010 8:51 p.m.

    some people get educated far beyond their intelegence. learning is good but it doesnt make you smart or give you wisdom

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 26, 2010 8:45 p.m.

    Now I understand why Republicans are so against education. If people become smart, they become liberal. We certainly can't have that.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 26, 2010 8:15 p.m.

    Strait is the gate and narrow is the way to eternal life.

  • Lute
    Feb. 26, 2010 7:47 p.m.

    Instead of taking the "micro" view, as Mero does, why not see the "macro" view as it pertains to the entire country? Where is the greatest concentration of college students, and where are they hardest to find? If the answers are "Boston, MA" and the "Deep South, excluding Florida", respectively, then you have your answer. Higher education does have a liberalizing effect. It's not by accident that the GOP is now based firmly in Dixie.

  • The Truth
    Feb. 26, 2010 6:50 p.m.

    will set us free.Therefore we need to look for the truth. If we think we have it, then the search is over and our minds, values become stagnants.
    The glory of God is intelligence, why not use it?
    There are many, many (myself among them) liberals, who question everything and believe in social justice and in the gospel because we are liberals. Because we see Jesus as a leader pursuing the dignity of all human beings. I'm a Christian and as such I am not afraid of respecting different life styles, values, and ideas. God is bigger than any church,human principle or interpretation of his word.Education formal or informal is liberating and challenging, embrace it and start living.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 26, 2010 6:14 p.m.

    They're minds are so open that there brains fell out.

  • Despite the liberal
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:58 p.m.

    indoctrination that the vast majority of colleges and universities give to their students, many turn out moderate or conservative or perhaps liberal, but not quite as much as Ward Churchill. I guess students leaving our liberal colleges are more "open minded" and "freer thinkers" than we think...go figure.

  • Madden
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:54 p.m.

    Why is it that so many liberal people who post in these articles are so full of hate for "conservatives"?

    I know plenty of brilliant people with great jobs who are very thoughtful, tolerant, literate, and oh yeah - religious and conservative. I also know a lot of people who fit the same basic description but are liberal instead. And we are all friends - imagine that!!

  • American conservatism
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:42 p.m.

    is incompatible with the teachings of Jesus. I find it ironic that I, as an agnostic, have to be the one to point out to religious folks that Jesus would never ask for a co-pay or if you had a pre-existing condition.

  • liberal Larry
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:38 p.m.

    People who go to college tend to be more intelligent than the average population. Since they are smarter there is a greater likelihood they will be liberal. It all makes perfect sense.

  • My 2 bits
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:29 p.m.

    College opened my mind.

    Seeing people suffering through out the world made me Liberal.

  • Anonymous
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:27 p.m.

    "education has long threatened a sector of the population, noting "Socrates died for that," after Greek rulers decided he was corrupting the youth of Athens by teaching them theories that didn't align with prevailing beliefs."


    Something’s never change... I always find it ironic that Conservative Christians are forever "bashing" universities hatefully labeling them as liberal...

  • Mero is completely wrong.
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:19 p.m.

    College is where you generally lose your cynicism, assuming you open your mind to all the things you might learn there.

    Some people, Mero included, perhaps miss much of what is offered in a university level education. Maybe that is why it is Mero, and not your average university student, who is so cynical.

  • Illiterate people
    Feb. 26, 2010 5:12 p.m.

    If you want to find the most reactionary, fundamental, staunch believers in religion, find illiterate people. If you want to find people who contribute to the arts, advance medicine, write the great books, then look to educated, well-read folks.
    Throughout time Religion has sought to keep people in the dark and supress questioning anything. The Dark Ages were not caused by liberal minds. Fundamentalists believe in their myths and stories, educated folks use the scientific method