Comments about ‘Utah Legislature: Buttars pitches plan to save Jordan schools’

Colleges usually let students leave when they finish the requirments for their degrees, and then graduate with their class. I myself finished my college course work with the end of winter quarter, and graduated in June with my class. I was not required to stay there for that last quarter. I see no difference. Let the kids get an early start on college or job market.

Eliminating the 12th grade is not a credible solution to Jordan's budget shortfall. Students can already graduate early if they have enough credits, but many students need the extra year for technical and vocational training and for AP and college preparation classes.

Perhaps we need to hold our students who are high school seniors to a higher standard by expecting them to take either college or technical related courses that will eventually prepare them for a career. Our academic standing in the world is an embarrassment.


Data from the Third International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS) suggests that the relative international standing of U.S. students declines as they progress through school. In both subject areas, our students perform above the international average in grade 4, close to the international average in grade 8, and considerably below it in grade 12.

In twelfth-grade, the achievement scores of both our overall student population tested on general mathematics and science knowledge, and of our more advance students tested in mathematics and physics, were well below the international average.

A difficult situation yes. Now is the time to face up and quit making excuses why all ideas but more money will not work. Take that option off the table and consider some bold moves.

Buttars is full of hate and intolerance. He is not a good source for ideas.

One teacher - per grade - per state with televised instruction. Reinforcement of concepts on computers - which has shown to be one of the best teaching methods. Eliminate most administrative jobs and refine the program. Most administrative jobs are not necessary. In fact, we could - also - get rid of the politicians and have the people formulate and pass bills in town meetings - connected by televisions and computers. Why do we need these useless politicians with high wages - benefits (Like medical that none of us will ever see) - and retirement at fifty. The people have far better ideas than these reps who do nothing but fight each other and get nothing done. Then they turn around and corrupt the system as lobbyists - which they could not do if the people did the work. Let's get serious and start cutting useless jobs and getting rid of people who do nothing but complain.

This plan to eliminate the 12th grade is going to be a loss to education and the students. What are these brain dead theorist going to do when the mindset of eduction and the students get transfered to the 11th grade? What it will do is transfer all the problems of the 12th grade to the 11th grade and so on.

If students in the 12th grade have all this slack time and nothing to do then it is a problem with the system not educating these 12th graders. Whats wrong with expecting more than minimum from the students? Students should never stop learning and the public education system owes it to the tax payers to provide it throughout the 12 years of education.

Minimum graduation credits should be reserved for hardship cases of students, not the standard for the system to say you have been here long enough, get out. No wonder americans are the least educated population of the world. People aren't like micro chips that you plug in and call it educated.

how about cutting athletics instead?

No 12th grade would put District students at a competitive disadvantage, even if only by perception. It is a dumb idea, and a lazy one. Bite the bullet and increase taxes. You either increase taxes or cut services. What is your choice? Where are your priorities? Where do you invest your money, in your children or at the mall?

Jordan is Buttars District, the legislature created the split process and refuses to address the inequities, so blame Senator Buttars, not the school board who got stuck with the mess he created.

Students have been able to opt out of 12th grade for fifteen year and get a scholarship for doing so. This is not a new idea, this is the same old recycled, kill public ed stuff Buttars is famous for.

And in response to Chris 6:18pm.

The reason US students fall behind as they get older is because US school educate all students and other nations only educate the best and brightest. We have kids that a generation ago would have been in the AF Training school, who walk the halls of US high schools.

When I lived abroad half the students were out in apprenticeships by the age of twelve and 3/4 were finished by the age of sixteen. Comparing all of our students against their best and brightest is an unfair comparison touted since "A Nation at Risk". Utah native Ted Bell, Reagan's secretary of Education and its author, admitted it was an unfair comparison.

Buttars is the problem, vote him out!

One of the problems is the Legislature has, over the years, added courses that students must take to graduate. i.e. Government and Financial Literacy courses making it more difficult for stdents to graduate early. Considering Sen. Buttars record in the past I'm not so sure I want him to tell me the "future of education". Also, consider how many electives students "burn" by taking Seminary classes. If students did not take Seminary it would be easy for kids to graduate early, even under the present system.

On Buttars - Kids can already take early graduation. I know several kids in Jordan who have done it. Buttars isn't selling a new idea. He's selling himself.

The real way to save that money is to eliminate Kindergarten. It isn't required for national accreditation like 12th grade, and those little kids are noisy anyways.

On Stephenson - his year round trimester idea doesn't work. BYUI tried it and is abandoning it. And it only saves money by absorbing growth and eliminating the need for new buildings. Nothing about the current situation is applicable.

I bet these guys hang out together. I wonder what they do for fun - maybe collect baby dalmations for fur coats.

The lack of value that people are placing on education is amazing to me. During the depression, when economic times where far worse than they are today, politicians and citizens alike found it vitally important to provide that generation of children with the best possible education. I listen to adults talk about how selfish this generation of young people is, maybe it is time for the supposed adults to look in the mirror and see what they are modeling for our future. We can pay for education now, or pay increased welfare and incarceration costs in the future.

I don't think Buttars is the right person to turn to for ideas about this. Getting rid of the 12th grade would not help the students in the Jordan School District nor does getting rid of teachers and making your already large class sizes even bigger. Seems to me that the students have already made their point about that by walking out of classes and they have a point..they want an education..get rid of their teachers and they won't get it. Why don't you lose the sports program instead??? And lower the salaries of overpaid board members who don't know what they're doing because isn't that why you're in this mess in the first place?

As Sen. Buttars has pitched this idea all session, the amount it would save the entire state has moved from $300 million down to around $30 million.

Now, he is telling Jordan District that the same idea would save just Jordan District $20 million. So, are his numbers messed up or does he really think that Jordan District has 2/3 of the State's students?

I cannot think of a good thing to say about Buttars, and I do not know whether eliminating 12th grade does anything to correct the deep-seated problems in the Jordan School District. However, it seems readily apparent that having year-round schools would reduce the need for capital expenditures and save money (albeit probably not in operating costs). As far as BYU eliminating the trimester approach, I have not heard anything like that. The converse seems true--universities appear to be moving from the quarter system to the trimester system.

Buttars doesn't know what he's talking about. Take a simple stats class. What exactly is he basing his "facts" on?

In this article Buttars says, ""They could eliminate two-thirds of their $30 million debt," he said. "Why won't they get serious about this?""

Then he later says, "Buttars says the accelerated program would be optional and the choice of the student and parents. Statewide, it could save public education $60 million, he said."

So if it's optional, where is he basing his $30 million and $60 million dollar numbers on? If all kids participate in his accelerated learnling program, is $60 dollars million statewide going to be saved? If half the students participate in it? If one-third?

Also, how is this going to help Jordan School District. At max, 60 million will be saved statewide. He says that 2/3s of the 30 million Jordan School District shortfall would be solved. But what is he basing his numbers on?

Furthermore, if only $60 million is going to be saved statewide, how is that going to help education? Many more cuts will still be made as Utah still has a huge shortfall.

While cutting athletics, extra-curricular activities, would help with money it is not a realistic option.

Do you realize that the culture you live in is influenced by athletics probably more than any other entity besides religion?

This starts young and ends until they can no longer play anymore. The channels used to progress and mature in their respective sport is the education system.

This is just not going to happen.

Also, I would guess that since you are not a supporter of athletics that some of the "extra-curricular" activities that you may have participated in would not be on the cutting list.

Grind your ax elsewhere!!

Butters is an embarrassment. It will be a great day when he is out.

Buttars isn't selling a new idea. He's selling himself.



In that case, I don't want any.

If we follow this logic, why have public schools at all? Sell them to McDonalds and just simply watch the obesity rate rise and our future generations IQ's fall.